"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

**JZLizard** · 01-31-18 22:43

Originally Posted by DirtyDeeds38 [View Original Post]

JZ, I read you response a to my post awhile back and it was spot on target. You have the best advice, hands down and you should consider writing a book on this topic. LOL. You'd be rich. But yeah, I am a good looking daddy, built, got all my hair, the whole nine yards, so I would say literally 7 in 10 of the babies I've seen get relationship ideas. And I used to go along with that notion, but I've learned my lesson. I've had some crazy experience going that route and will never allow it again.

I have actually been holding back on writing about my latest findings in the sugar world, partially because I think some of them are hard to describe without either alienating some of the audience, newcomers, or just giving the impression that I'm full of shit.

On my latest traveling-sugar binge, I did things a bit differently than I have in the past. I noticed in a LOT of profiles in various cities, many girls in the pool of SBs that I would go after are increasingly posting their interest in an arrangement that turns into a relationship, so I had an idea. What would happen if I invested a bit of time REALLY talking to each one, pouring on the game and charm, then telling them that my interest in them is way beyond the shallow confines of sugar? In line with the number you quoted above, somewhere between 6-7 out of 10 of these girls agreed to no-allowance dating (assuming we like each other at the meet)! We hear some folks say that free pussy is rare in the sugar world, I did not find this to be the case at all. Is it rare for the married guy who only wants a couple of hours in a hotel with her? Sure...it would be nearly impossible to get her to agree to do this without allowance. But what if I truly approach it the same as civy dating? What if, when I visit the girl I spend somewhere between 2-5 days with her and treat it as if I'm courting her? When I'm traveling, this is not that difficult for me to do, because when I communicate with the SO it's usually in text anyway, no need to disrupt my dating activities to answer her call and tell her how much I miss her.

Well long story short, I got a lot of "free" (or in reality very close to it) pussy. I say close to it, because in all cases I did gift something -- not because it's required but because it is important to me to establish that emotional separation, and make sure that they see me more a provider of material support than emotional support. However, the average gift came out to under $200 per overnighter date -- probably $150 on average. Not just overnighter but random afternoon fucks throughout the day in many cases. Now I did spend quite a bit on entertainment, but a lot of that was my own indulgence and certainly something I wanted to do. This is why I don't feel like dinner or dating expenses count when tallying up the total cost -- because she is not merely extracting money from me for her own gain, she is simply enjoying my company doing the same things I do (eat good food and drink etc), and therefore it's just a normal dating expense, in my mind at least. It's amazing how many of these girls just appreciate a good time and an escape from their otherwise dull lives!

Now the bad (and this is what you alluded to as well). It is pretty much impossible to do the above without expecting some clingers! All of the ones that I went overnight with did become somewhat clingy. I had one that was particularly memorable -- I stayed an entire workweek with her, and I think we fucked 15-16 times during that period, she was probably one of the more prolific nymphos I've ever met. She very quickly dismissed the idea of receiving allowance, and told me I was more of a "normal dating find" for her than what she expected in an SD, and yes when someone half your age says that, and is fucking your brains out, it does stroke your ego a bit and it's kind of hard to just pack up the suitcases and say goodbye. By day three she claims she loved me and I pretended like she never said it. She was already making all these delusional future plans for us, I mostly just bit my lip and tried to enjoy the eye candy and sex and just let on like I'm not really thinking too far in the future yet. And yes, the more resistent you are to her advances, the more she can sense it and the more of a turn on and challenge it is for her, so she keeps trying. A few times she exhibited nutty behaviors I would describe as bipolar symptoms, getting instantly furious at me for small things, random triggered, then letting her anger dissipate in a matter of seconds and returning to normal. I'm also aware that she was taking meds for some of her issues, meds that specifically warn against mixing with alcohol, yet she was doing it anyway. After I left, it took a few days to fully get rid of her, but I should be in the clear on that one as long as no paternity bullshit arises (I never use condoms). I really think 2-3 days with a girl is the maximum I want to go in the future after my recent experience. She was sad about the break up for a few days, but seems okay now and I'm sure she has probably already invoked her magical (bipolar) powers on another SD out there by now.

Bottom line is, there is something to be said for making sure that allowance or a financial arrangement is standing between you and any emotional expectation of the girl. They are human, and if they are truly attracted to their SD (which most true SBs probably are), they are quite prone to becoming attached. I think I made it worse this time by deemphasizing the financial aspect of arrangement and encouraging them to look past money even before the first M&G.

On the flip side, if I had just stuck to 18-20 year olds, I probably would not have had this problem. Its mostly the 24+ year olds that have started really thinking about their future, decided that they want a stable provider first and foremost, and if you are unmarried and have no kids (or they think you are), then you are a prime target for them. It then becomes a game of trying to have as much fun as possible without trampling on anyone's feelings or worsening the struggles that they already have. I always aim to leave them in better shape than I met them, whatever that means. I'm not sure I always succeed, but I do try.

**Ernest Ll** · 01-31-18 18:10

Seems like a genuine gal, but her dirty talk is off the charts.

**FarFarAway** · 01-31-18 14:57

Originally Posted by Clespot [View Original Post]

Thanks you are more daring than I! In the past I have had some luck with banks that have prepaid cards that are used internationally. They've started asking for I'd on those as well.

Please, do tell, what banks have prepaid cards for international use? And who is the they you refer to. The banks, or the vendor? FarFarAway.

**DirtyDeeds38** · 01-31-18 12:14

Went to renew on SA and noticed is 90 per month now. WTF? Anyone know a discount code? LOL. Anyhow, I usually do a month and get myself a new lineup that I ride out for a nice rotation and then go back and do it again in a few months. Generally it takes me about a week to have 3-7 girls in my rotation, so I sure wish they had a weekly membership. 90 is just really freaking pushing it.

Weeding out and slowly letting down the crazy chick. This girl is legit, bat shit crazy. Highly educated, but equally as insane. Be careful out there brothers, in my four years of experience on the site, most of those girls ended up there for a reason. Crazy and they will take you down with them if you do not protect yourself at all times. Fun indeed, but realize what you're playing with.

JZ, I read you response a to my post awhile back and it was spot on target. You have the best advice, hands down and you should consider writing a book on this topic. LOL. You'd be rich. But yeah, I am a good looking daddy, built, got all my hair, the whole nine yards, so I would say literally 7 in 10 of the babies I've seen get relationship ideas. And I used to go along with that notion, but I've learned my lesson. I've had some crazy experience going that route and will never allow it again.

**DC Outlaw** · 01-30-18 09:52

Originally Posted by Ltnric [View Original Post]

I see a bunch of these girls on regular dating sites who use KIK and 9 out of 10 times they tend to be scammers. I am very suspicious when I see a girl who wants to use KIK.

I've used the KIK app with a handful of local girls and have not had any issue with scammers. It does seem that babies using kik are more DTF (IMHO).

**Clespot** · 01-30-18 09:12

Thanks you are more daring than I! In the past I have had some luck with banks that have prepaid cards that are used internationally. They've started asking for I'd on those as well.

Originally Posted by JZLizard [View Original Post]

Recently I had two prepaid cards of the exact same type, same amount, registered with exactly the same (false) info. The first one went through fine, then when it came time to renew the second one it wouldn't work -- (not sure if that's a card or SA issue, since I haven't tried the card anywhere else yet).

They did have a message from support saying if you are having issues with a prepaid card, send them the info and they'll process it, but I ended up just saying fuck it and paying with Paypal. My assets are protected, so if it gets back around to my SO then it does, I'll just remind her who is in charge. The one risk I don't like is that if SA gets hacked there's a chance my name could be published, but if that ever happens I will handle it appropriately at that time.

**JZLizard** · 01-30-18 08:12

Originally Posted by Clespot [View Original Post]

Hello just wondering if there are any updates on how you are paying for your memberships specially on SA? I've done a search but what I have found is the the prepaid cards no longer work? Thanks.

Recently I had two prepaid cards of the exact same type, same amount, registered with exactly the same (false) info. The first one went through fine, then when it came time to renew the second one it wouldn't work -- (not sure if that's a card or SA issue, since I haven't tried the card anywhere else yet).

They did have a message from support saying if you are having issues with a prepaid card, send them the info and they'll process it, but I ended up just saying fuck it and paying with Paypal. My assets are protected, so if it gets back around to my SO then it does, I'll just remind her who is in charge. The one risk I don't like is that if SA gets hacked there's a chance my name could be published, but if that ever happens I will handle it appropriately at that time.

**Ltnric** · 01-29-18 21:23

Originally Posted by FarFarAway [View Original Post]

I haven't been on SA for months, but have been trolling for girls in other venues (CL, etc.). I am finding many use kik, an app I installed on my burner. It seems to work OK, seems to be discreet (in both directions), and it seems to be popular. Whereas some sites don't permit posting of email addresses, girls are getting away with posting handles from kik, snapchat, etc. This could be unique to my area or to the non-SA POTs, but good to keep in mind.

I see a bunch of these girls on regular dating sites who use KIK and 9 out of 10 times they tend to be scammers. I am very suspicious when I see a girl who wants to use KIK.

**S2568** · 01-29-18 17:21

OK fellows, lot to report here gotten few new ones, since I do not stick with just one. Hard for me variety is more exciting! In the schedule all set to go two AA 18 hot college babes, one 30+ AA having difficulty matching the schedules, one hottt Filipino 19 met and excellent hott dream wow she is a wild child Still have the regulars three others kind of rotating but I am thinking of sticking to this one Filipino.

Making a trip to Las Vegas coming weekend lined up really hot latina 19 college girl, she is committed and three others in the negotiations. Damn talk about the amount of people who are active in Las Vegas!! Almost everyone who I sent a message to want to meet, no BS dinners and M&G shit straight to the task. These are not regulars most are UNLV students!!

Will report back, I am sooo fucked with this hobby.

Stay Safe.

**Clespot** · 01-29-18 15:17

Hello just wondering if there are any updates on how you are paying for your memberships specially on SA? I've done a search but what I have found is the the prepaid cards no longer work? Thanks.

**FTP1999** · 01-29-18 12:23

Greetings,

I just got a cancellation from a new beautiful Young lady because she noticed I don't have a background check? That was never a problem before.

I read it and you basically need to give up all your personal info. So much for being discreet LOL.

And I'm guessing it's not cheap.

Any experience with this?

**Ranger208** · 01-26-18 19:46

Also on S B don't believe any of this add tried to help her but was told still had to pay for sexual favors, pictures are 3 years old. Has anybody tried meeting her? Would like to know how it went.

**FarFarAway** · 01-26-18 01:06

I haven't been on SA for months, but have been trolling for girls in other venues (CL, etc.). I am finding many use kik, an app I installed on my burner. It seems to work OK, seems to be discreet (in both directions), and it seems to be popular. Whereas some sites don't permit posting of email addresses, girls are getting away with posting handles from kik, snapchat, etc. This could be unique to my area or to the non-SA POTs, but good to keep in mind.

**Cephlapod Love** · 01-23-18 23:01

Originally Posted by Madaboutmax [View Original Post]

I got the same pop up today. Seems like a CYA move by SA. I assumed it was something they made everyone check off, but I wonder if it was based on my communication. I never discuss "pay for play", but I do discuss starting with a "pay per meet" allowance if things go well.

The check box disclaimer makes it clear they don't encourage "pay per meet " allowances. If the allowance isn't in return for intimacy, I'm not sure I understand the concern. Isn't that the premise of WYP?

Which one of the sites are you talking about? WYP or SA as both are mentioned.

If one reads the disclaimers when contacting someone on WYP it is made VERY clear that while one IS paying for a date that intimacy / sexual contact is NOT to be expected. I know, I almost missed it when I was on WYP. I think we have been conditioned to just click through "the fine" print to get where we want to go. But the disclaimers are there.

What is likely going on with SA and any disclaimers is that Wade is trying to save or insulate his cash cow. LE and AGs across the country got the CC companies to stop accepting payments from BackPage (BP). BP switched to using Bitcoin. Now the Cartel have put additional pressure on BP and BP eliminated any text / description in the posts / advertisements. So the adds can be argued are just women seeking men and no sex is implied. Keeps their cash flow going, hopefully. The rational of course was to stop women from being trafficked!

So I have no doubt that LE and politicians are scheming to put pressure on Wade and his SA operation, which they view as nothing more than another source / form of prostitution. So If Wade can demonstrate that "arrangements" are clearly just platonic and has nothing to do with pay to play, he MIGHT be able to dodge a cash cow ending episode.

Me? When I am on SA, I NEVER EVER talk about any form of payment. It just makes sense to take that kind of discussion "private" to my monger email, accessed only through a VPN. Oh and of course, I am sure everyone is discussing payment is only for legitimate services: companionship, back rubs, dancing or poetry reading.

So IF Wade is putting up these new warnings & disclaimers, then he is feeling the pressure, it makes sense to be prepared should that pressure materialize and his records get seized. One doesn't want to be in a Ashley Madison situation with ones pants around their ankles!

**JZLizard** · 01-23-18 19:10

Originally Posted by BamBam [View Original Post]

I got the pop-up also but I got at login leaving me to conclude it is going to all members. I never talk PPM but I do suggest we start with a weekly allowance meeting once per week as we build trust.

Bam.

Yeah, I think it was meant for everyone. From an operational standpoint it would be way easier (cheaper) just to use the opportunity to remind all members what the site is about rather than to mine all messages looking for trouble.