"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[JZLizard]

JL, how have / would you handle girls who, during the M&G but before heading to the FC, ask how much sugar they are going to get?

There is no canned script that would cover where I would take the conversation in every situation. Every social interaction is different, and how those interactions unfold starts with the very first e-mail or message. I don't send out form letters or work in bulk or batches.

So, short version of the story something like you describe has only happened once to me and it ended up with no trip to the FC.

But let's say a girl who I thought was a good POT ends up getting as far as the dinner table and asks me point blank like a little brat how much she's going to get. I'd turn it around on her psychologically, I. E. Is that the only reason she showed up for dinner? I'm interested in real SBs, ones who have some genuine chemistry so if that's all she showed up for there's the door. And yes your own will to walk away must be stronger than the propensity of your smaller head to dig into your wallet. Just basic salesman's self-discipline.

However I'd say once it gets to that point if I have to start playing psychological games with her, I have probably failed at my game somewhere higher up in the process. Game is not something you pull out a canned script in the eleventh hour for in order to pull off a quick win.

The goal of game is to make sure she's having such a good time from the initial meeting hug that she's not about to fuck things up by asking about money.

Don't get me wrong I run into this type of girl all the time. I just try to weed them out early in the process, long before it gets to M&G.

[HoyaSvnFgr]

So is it just me, or have others noticed a trend with the young pots they are meeting and their love of electronic dance music (EDM). Almost every pot I have met who is under 23 is absolutely crazy about it.

Ended up buying my blonde swim instructor a monthly subscription to Pandora (the music service). Talk about cheap bang for your buck (literally). $5 a month is nothing to me, but she loves it. Added bonus is that because its monthly, it helps to remind her of another perk that will be lost if she steps out of line.

Current SB is in to this as well. To get sugar under control I gave my SB a credit card. The card has a decent limit on it. I've actually made out better by giving her a card. I pay the balance off monthly. Since she's had it she's never maxed it out. I observered her spending habits and it's a few subscription services for music, cosmetic refills and some day to day stuff like coffee, gas and food.

If things do fall out between is I'm sure she'd be taking a hit. At the stage we're at now I don't know how she could go back to regular dating for her age group.

[HoyaSvnFgr]

Agree with you about the crazy sex and the I love you stage. Something about having emotion in the mix that makes sec better. The problem though is that I have found that some women can't separate the play acting from real life. Then, once they get emotionally attached, it becomes a different kind of game entirely.

Life is just a series of tradeoffs though I guess.

The SB matrix is awesome, but complicated in a sense. At the start, you're banging chicks left and right. Once you find one with substance you're moving at a faster pace. Because finances are discussed upfront and there's an open discourse on expectations. The relationship moves along faster than civi dating. I recall a girl I dated briefly that I met in a bar needed $100 for an out of state trip and I wouldn't budge. Whereas when my SB needed $1000 for rent I send it to her with no problem.

In a 9-month period of sugar dating I've banged between 20-30 girls. Maybe 5-6 were in regular rotation. The spinner that's now my GF was like a pin-needle stuck in my brain. No matter what happened or new SB that I had a fling with I knew I couldn't replace her. So we're now living together and nearing the "love you" stage. This morning she left to buy books for school and kissed me while in bed and said "have a good day, daddy".

The SB / SD mind f at *k is totally real. I don't know how this is going to end, but it's been an awesome ride since joining the bowl. I'm knocking the door on 40, so I'm a younger SD. When I look at my 23 yo, SB / GF walk around my penthouse with her tight ass and pu'see lips hanging out her panties all day I realize that everything is right in the world. God Bless America!

[HollywoodGuy]

Unfortunately I did not leverage the recession to buy low and sell high. My biggest regret was not buying Ford Motor when it hit bottom at the end of 2008 (and then went up over 10 times in the next 2 years). I grew up with the adage that whats good for General Motors is good for the country (and they went bust). So instead of following my gut and in spite of my better instincts I held my assets close and spent out of my savings to cover my nut until maybe this year. My portfolio actually did go up during the recession (just very slowly) due to ultra conservative investing . And I passed on all the recent and amazing tech IPO's. So the $ plan is still in effect.

Just to finish the description of my circumstances and where I was going with all of this. I did invest heavily into my own business during the recession. So even though my income dropped 75%, my ability to get back on track again is solid due to fat trimming, software upgrades, increased hiring, and better training of staff during that time. But the $ plan has done more than keep me within my budget. It has allowed me and forced me to dig deeper into the female psyche to be able to get what I really need to be satisfied. As opposed to just tossing money around and then not even being all that happy with the results beyond the shear physical beauty of the girls I was with.

I may have less trophy fucks (although many are still stunning), but I have dropped to the overall 8's in looks (mostly 7/9's . because for me, body trumps face). As opposed to going straight for the overall 9's and 10's, in spite of possibly encountering some psychological and/or bedroom skills deficiencies.

Even the virgin will hold a special place in my heart for years to come. She went against her nature in an effort to fix what she perceived to be a desperate situation, because in reality she is actually far from desperate. So what she lacked in skills she more than made up for in character, as she did her best to please me.

(And she did please me in so many ways).

[DogSun]

With my method of no up front money discussion, this kind of thing becomes a complete non-issue. So maybe it is a cop with a fake pic, who cares if you haven't broken the law? It completely liberates you to focus on other things.

I've found linking phone numbers to addresses to be completely unreliable due to rapid turnover of burner phone and other disposable phone numbers so that part wouldn't concern me enough to hold off for a meeting.

I'm not sure the lack of FB / twitter is really a red flag. I like to research them a little before hand, but some girls will use fake names, etc. A lot of them exclude their face from sexy (nude or semi nude etc.) pics, but it's not unreasonable to ask for a normal pic showing face, assuming you've sent one of yourself. I wouldn't meet her without that, because she could send a pic of anyone then a hog shows up for the M&G, wasting time.

JL, how have / would you handle girls who, during the M&G but before heading to the FC, ask how much sugar they are going to get?

[Member #5570]

So is it just me, or have others noticed a trend with the young pots they are meeting and their love of electronic dance music (EDM). Almost every pot I have met who is under 23 is absolutely crazy about it.

Ended up buying my blonde swim instructor a monthly subscription to Pandora (the music service). Talk about cheap bang for your buck (literally). $5 a month is nothing to me, but she loves it. Added bonus is that because its monthly, it helps to remind her of another perk that will be lost if she steps out of line.

I have run into several POTs that are in love with EDM.

This genre is hugely popular with college age girls. The party scene is amazing. You should let your POT take you to one.

[HollywoodGuy]

The 18 year old virgin is still here to keep me company, but no sex or sexy flirting even. We are sleeping in the same bed but nothin going on in there except sleep. We just went to the friend mode completely. Her parents are sending her money and I am spending my .1 a day for her meals. I like having her around. She does not look her age at all. Not an attraction for many, but I like different types, and her type is one I will never tire of.
I will never forget her soft little voice begging me to get off.

I have a date at noon today with an old flame that is managing to sneak out for a bit. I'll see my ATF tomorrow night. I have really interviewed a lot of POTS this week. Out of all the POTS two to four look good, but 2 are super promising. One is 19 and so horny and needy she is ready to burst. And the other is 29 and very close by with her own place and super shy (always a big plus). Since I have been slowing it down a bit over the summer I have had a chance to take the 5 steps and really re-write them to fit me more personally. So as to find the type of girl I am looking for on an emotional and psychological level. I originally wrote the steps as sort of an every man guide to getting pussy. Including me.

But once you have used those steps, based on feedback from the girls, you should greatly modify them to better reflect your self and your circumstances and desires. This is one reason I hit up every type of girl (even though I still only date my type physically) so I can get a general consensus of what they are thinking. I have really tweeked them to better fit my ability to snag some of the harder to get types. The ones that are most likely not going to last long on the site. They will be gone off the site fast if they can't find a guy with added value above and beyond the sugar. Arrogance and rude talk with overdoses of sugar do not entice this type of girl. They may ask for more sugar upfront but back down quickly when they see the added value they are really looking for.

The true GPS girls seem to always be the ones that are already truly spoiled. Or the ones with good jobs, or recently divorced, or old enough to have real bills or in some kind of real financial trouble. Some of course are the super hotties but a lot of average girls are GPS as well. So either they want a huge score or nothing. It still really comes down to finding the emotionally and physically needy ones that have enough going on to cover most of their bills. This is really just gravy for them financially. More like just having a rich BF kind of thing. Some can't cover their nut but most can and just need the sugar for girly things and guilty pleasures or the occasional unexpected expense. I would say my ATF spends about half of what I give her on bills and the other half on extras. So there is alwaya a little pressure around the 1st to pay rent.

The first time SB's will always be the best and the most challenging in a lot of ways. Their lack of experience can be a two edged sword. But it's still usually the best scenario for me. Even knowing its always a crap shoot in the best of circumstances as to the longevity of any relationship. I think the GPS girls really fall into two main categories. The ones that are not going to go out with you for under $$$ to $$$$ no matter what. Unless you catch them on the exact day they are totally desperate. And that would only end up in a one or two time fling. Because once they get over the hump they are going to go right back to sticking to their guns.

Then there is another type. The new girls that are just protecting themselves they think from the A holes so if they fuck up (or have to date below their level in any way) at least they have something to show for it afterward. Convince that girl that you can offer far more than the sugar and the GPS melts pretty fast.

Unfortunately I did not leverage the recession to buy low and sell high. My biggest regret was not buying Ford Motor when it hit bottom at the end of 2008 (and then went up over 10 times in the next 2 years). I grew up with the adage that whats good for General Motors is good for the country (and they went bust). So instead of following my gut and in spite of my better instincts I held my assets close and spent out of my savings to cover my nut until maybe this year. My portfolio actually did go up during the recession (just very slowly) due to ultra conservative investing . And I passed on all the recent and amazing tech IPO's. So the $ plan is still in effect.

[JZLizard]

Attempting to generalize about Asians is like trying to generalize about Caucasians. Basically, it doesn't work. Think about it in these terms: Octoberfest is not universal to all Caucasians.

Sure, stereotypes often have a basis in fact, but if you're going to try to stereotype Asian girls, it needs to be done by nationality, not race. The same all holds true with Latinas.

Korean girls are different than Thai girls, both are different than Viet girls, and all are different from the American version of their counterparts.

But do you realize that by pointing out that Korean girls are different than Thai girls -- you've just made a generalization of sorts? The fact that you noticed that there is a cultural difference between women from the two countries and that they are both different than white girls is in itself saying that there is a pattern of behavioral difference there. My earlier comments were not to say all Asians or Latinas do this or that, it was just to point out that once you've dated literally countless numbers of each demographic (and I mean dated, not paid for sex) you start to notice patterns that emerge more often in one demographic than another.

Yes I could absolutely identify traits that are more likely to appear in white, Latina or Asian girls assuming they have some fairly recent cultural tie to their country of origin. If they were adopted shortly after birth and grew up completely in the USA they are not going to have much cultural influence from another country, so in a case of "extreme Americanization" it is all bets off.

My experience with AA is much less vast -- I can discuss patterns I've noticed there but it's working from a much smaller sample size and I'm sure my findings would be less accurate than if you talked to someone who specializes in that demographic like HWG does.

But yes, patterns can be recognized and generalizations can be made. Asians and Latinas generalize about their own culture because they are in touch with their own people and know what to expect. Sometimes you even hear them say "I hate _ (insert this or that" about their own culture, and they will highlight something behavioral that occurs frequently among folks from their country that is different from Americans. Those differences form the basis of the generalizations.

[IluvSmellyFish]

Agree with you about the crazy sex and the I love you stage. Something about having emotion in the mix that makes sec better. The problem though is that I have found that some women can't separate the play acting from real life. Then, once they get emotionally attached, it becomes a different kind of game entirely.

Life is just a series of tradeoffs though I guess.

Yesterday I decided to confront my ATF about her feelings of despair because I am not and will never be her official BF. I tell her I love her everyday and vise versa. I caught her on FB talking about her IRL BF. I did not confront her with that, just the overall situation. You are never going to have the insane over the top sex with a SB if you don't get to the I love you stage. Even if you both know its just play acting. Because in the moment it can still feel real. Just MHO.

[IluvSmellyFish]

So is it just me, or have others noticed a trend with the young pots they are meeting and their love of electronic dance music (EDM). Almost every pot I have met who is under 23 is absolutely crazy about it.

Ended up buying my blonde swim instructor a monthly subscription to Pandora (the music service). Talk about cheap bang for your buck (literally). $5 a month is nothing to me, but she loves it. Added bonus is that because its monthly, it helps to remind her of another perk that will be lost if she steps out of line.

[IluvSmellyFish]

Attempting to generalize about Asians is like trying to generalize about Caucasians. Basically, it doesn't work. Think about it in these terms: Octoberfest is not universal to all Caucasians.

Sure, stereotypes often have a basis in fact, but if you're going to try to stereotype Asian girls, it needs to be done by nationality, not race. The same all holds true with Latinas.

Korean girls are different than Thai girls, both are different than Viet girls, and all are different from the American version of their counterparts.

[JZLizard]

Contacted me again about 20 minutes ago, I asked for a real photo and got another image that looked stock. And a different phone number to text. This one links to no address. I would not have been overly concerned about no address, but to have the sherriff's office address was one of those where if I got into trouble, how stupid was I for proceeding when I had seen that.

There are a bazillion women willing to fuck. Why roll the dice. Might be coincidence, might be they are taking a look.

Filtering out the dicey ones is not a bad strategy. I have to do that myself when I'm in SD mode as a simple matter of time management. If there's anything remotely dangerous about them I just forget them and move on. Better to identify a problem early on. But, if I were a full time SD I might do things different as long as I wasn't at legal risk.

[Beachesnole02]

With my method of no up front money discussion, this kind of thing becomes a complete non-issue. So maybe it is a cop with a fake pic, who cares if you haven't broken the law? It completely liberates you to focus on other things.

I've found linking phone numbers to addresses to be completely unreliable due to rapid turnover of burner phone and other disposable phone numbers so that part wouldn't concern me enough to hold off for a meeting.

I'm not sure the lack of FB / twitter is really a red flag. I like to research them a little before hand, but some girls will use fake names, etc. A lot of them exclude their face from sexy (nude or semi nude etc.) pics, but it's not unreasonable to ask for a normal pic showing face, assuming you've sent one of yourself. I wouldn't meet her without that, because she could send a pic of anyone then a hog shows up for the M&G, wasting time.

Contacted me again about 20 minutes ago, I asked for a real photo and got another image that looked stock. And a different phone number to text. This one links to no address. I would not have been overly concerned about no address, but to have the sherriff's office address was one of those where if I got into trouble, how stupid was I for proceeding when I had seen that.

There are a bazillion women willing to fuck. Why roll the dice. Might be coincidence, might be they are taking a look.

[HollywoodGuy]

So yesterday the virgin decided that we are not going to be having anymore sex. She asked for a little money and I told her no way. I spent enough already. Our 8 official dates came out to almost $$ per FC visit. I told her that was enough and if she just wanted to show her gratitude for everything I already did, then fine. But no more cash.

I have only been spending like .1 a day since she got back so she can eat. I have already planned four dates for the weekend (knowing maybe 2 could flake). But two are for sure. So she can just stay here till whenever as long as she stays out of my way. All she has to do is leave for a couple hours when the girls show up. And there is plenty to do and see in hollywood. So she can be a tourist for a bit while I am busy. We are all good. No drama. And I like having her around just to lighten the mood around here.

[HollywoodGuy]

Tell me about emotional risk. My SB and I after several months of seeing each other had the "exclusive" conversation. We also barebacked for the first time last night. It was my first bareback session in 6 years. I performed for about two hours straight and had to fight off saying the "L" word during pillow talk. There's something about a 23 year old spinner, and a soaking wet vagina covering your penis that makes you emotionally vulnerable. LOL.

Yesterday I decided to confront my ATF about her feelings of despair because I am not and will never be her official BF. I tell her I love her everyday and vise versa. I caught her on FB talking about her IRL BF. I did not confront her with that, just the overall situation. You are never going to have the insane over the top sex with a SB if you don't get to the I love you stage. Even if you both know its just play acting. Because in the moment it can still feel real. Just MHO.