"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[HollywoodGuy]

Is the Trumpster rejuvenating the American spirit? Something is going on, on the Internet. Online sales have jumped dramatically in the last 5 weeks (in the slowest month of the year except August). This directly impacts my ability to play in the bowl. And part of my reason for having the confidence to offer $$ to that model below. I hope this keeps up, because my game is way up even from a couple years ago. So if my paycheck goes up proportionately, I could go on an awesome sugar run till the end of the year.

Smiley Face.

[JZLizard]

Societal norms do change over time, I agree. Don't think that women's desire to trade on their attractiveness to men has changed since the beginning of time, and doubt that it ever will, based on empirical evidence. A generalization that some women will hate, I know, but I'm pretty confident that position is backed by a myriad of day to day examples.

I mentioned earlier in this discussion that the worlds oldest profession will never go away.

What would be in jeopardy, however, of diminishing is the simple convenience of meeting good clean college aged babes by simply signing up for a website. If it is not dead-simple and convenient, free of legal risk and social stigma for them, the numbers would drop off exponentially and we'd mostly be dealing with escorts and BP skanks.

Trust me when I say SBs can still be found on Match/POF etc all day long. It's just a LOT more work to do so with much less to choose from.

[Mike7794]

LOL! Last week for only the 2nd time I ended a date as soon as the girl got in the car. This one described herself as "average". I should have guessed when her profile had only face shots and the one private pic she was in very loose clothing. As she came walking out to the car she was obviously way past "a few extra pounds" and solidly into "overweight". She got in the car and I told her I was sorry, but this just wasn't going to work. She did take it fairly well.

Good Hunting!

Travelin.

I had two of those early this year. They qualified as a few extra pounds for sure.

[Mike7794]

My personal opinion -Yes- each to his own. A label is just that but it is good to know in your own mind how to process your activities. Does that make us Johns if we see 1 SB? Probably. If a girl is collecting men to pay her and is willing to have sex to do it then she is a pro by definition. The only way to avoid that definition is the existence of a relationship that is not solely dependent on a sex / money dynamic. Most SBs would not see any of us unless they were getting paid. And we would not pay them without the expectation of sex. An exception to that rule is the true IRL bar / dating site pickup. I know my SBs "like" me and many are thrilled with the sex, but I have yet had one offer to drop the allowance. I know it happens because some of you report it, but those girls see some of you as a potential IRL "catch".

For those of you who see Escorts you know the difference in mentality between a naive college girl wanting to pay for her tuition and taking a dick for the effort vs a working Pro with a Pimp, website, agency, etc. The SB college girl is just starting on that slippery slope to being a Pro. It isn't long before she sees how easy it is to bang some geeze and pocket an easy $$$ ,then another and another. Same with us guys. If I had the time and $ I would see a different SB every day ala Hollywood in his prime. I want to catch the SB at the naive stage where she hasn't acquired the hooker mentality, and actually can still respond emotionally and actually enjoy the ride.

Well said. It is a fine line. I was thinking along the lines of your second paragraph type of SB. I too like that type of SB. In fact my senior to be at a university is like that, as she took her profile down a couple of months ago.

[HollywoodGuy]

And speaking of pussy. I while back I said I might decide to go an alternate route and pay $$ a date (here and there), but then just date a little less. I just made my first $$ offer today, to this girl, based off her message to me that a $ just wasn't going to cut it.

I would never normally do this, but since being with my ATF who is 6' tall, I have come to appreciate the kinetic dynamics of our love making. This girl is close to 6 feet as well.

Anyway, she just accepted my offer of a "no sex, no money" date to see if we click.

And here is a front shot of the aforementioned 6 foot girl. After sleeping on it. I am just not sure. But I guess I can meet her for free and see what happens.

[ToeLover57]

So I contacted a college student a couple of weeks ago who had the usual profile about looking for LTR with a SD to help out with tuition. Her reply was only for me to send her a text. A google search turned up her many ads and pics.

I didn't reply as I wasn't interested in going that route. Last night she wrote back why I had contacted her. So you explained why. She replied that she wasn't an escort and wanted to know why I thought that. After sending her the link I got off of google, she replied back, "Oh ok but how did you find that as all I get is nothing like that when I look up my phone number". After I told her how to search for her ads, she said thanks and call me if I change my mind.

I don't have anything against escorts as I've used them before but I prefer to know upfront. Just started meeting another college student who is probably utr but at least we did a m&g and a couple of dinners before hitting the fc.

[Dsprdo]

Its not the willingness of the men to seek out the hobby that would fade -- the problem is all the young ladies that would be chased away by a stigma that there is something wrong / illegal with the hobby.

Societal norms do change over time, I agree. Don't think that women's desire to trade on their attractiveness to men has changed since the beginning of time, and doubt that it ever will, based on empirical evidence. A generalization that some women will hate, I know, but I'm pretty confident that position is backed by a myriad of day to day examples.

[JZLizard]

Can the government shut down SD4 M? Absolutely. Is the government going to eliminate men with means' desire for the company of younger women or the desire of those women to have more than they can get otherwise? Never.

As I said in an earlier message, sugar daddying was around before the websites and would be around after. The negative side effect however would be that if the websites are pushed underground or if there is a stigma of illegality created around it in the media, there is a certain category of girls that will no longer use those sites. Unfortunately that category of girls are the best kind.

The SD sites would continue to popup under different names and find ways to continue operating, but if they aren't getting basically promoted on the Dr. Phil show and similar, we are not going to benefit from the same level of popularity.

Its not the willingness of the men to seek out the hobby that would fade -- the problem is all the young ladies that would be chased away by a stigma that there is something wrong / illegal with the hobby.

[Dsprdo]

And they didn't do this over human trafficking. They did it over simple file sharing and copyright laws.

I know I should stay out of this, BUT-"simple file sharing and copyright laws" are in effect taking hundreds of millions of dollars OUT of the pockets of people in the entertainment industry that have the motivation, the contacts, the money, and the legal backing to influence the government to take action. The only motivation of the government to commit all the might of the Federal machine to shutting down SA, SD4 M or others are headlines during an election cycle. The history of politicians grandstanding against vice goes back as long as we've had a government, is cyclical in nature, and will probably never end. That being said, if there is big money out there on one side of this issue, it is on the side of the internet services that are filling a market. Something like this is GOING to exist in one form or another. Can the government shut down SD4 M? Absolutely. Is the government going to eliminate men with means' desire for the company of younger women or the desire of those women to have more than they can get otherwise? Never.

Now, as a smart guy said, how about that pussy?

[HollywoodGuy]

And speaking of pussy. I while back I said I might decide to go an alternate route and pay $$ a date (here and there), but then just date a little less. I just made my first $$ offer today, to this girl, based off her message to me that a $ just wasn't going to cut it.

I would never normally do this, but since being with my ATF who is 6' tall, I have come to appreciate the kinetic dynamics of our love making. This girl is close to 6 feet as well.

Anyway, she just accepted my offer of a "no sex, no money" date to see if we click.

[JZLizard]

All those sites are what's referred to as egregious offenders. No dating site can stop the occasional pro from posting an ad. And even if a girl is a pro that doesn't mean she isn't entitled to a social life. Men paying women for their company is part of every cultures traditions. I just don't see a dating site, that is obviously not an escort site getting shut down. A BP may be a different story. Those sites you mention were violating so many laws as were the individual owners on a personal level, that you couldn't count the number of felonies they were committing. The SD sites and especially SA are run by a totally different crowd. The primary owner of SD4M was once run out of a business a number of years ago. The business was not illegal in any way, but his particular business practices were. And would have eventually forced any owner to close practicing similar tactics to defraud or abuse the telecom system. Just my 2 cents.

Now hey, what about that pussy?

The SD sites aren't illegal, when used according to terms of service. Neither are nightclubs in most cities, but the cities can still choose to shut them down as a "public nuisance" if too much illegal activity is tied to the business. It's the same sort of risk. As I said before, it's not going to happen over the occasional misdemeanor transaction taking place, but something like a high profile case in the media (examples I used before are something like the Google exec / heroin death, or maybe someone gets caught trafficking some minor on one of the sites).

Allofmp3 wasn't breaking the law. Neither was megaupload. Their users were. Its an almost perfect analogy.

[HollywoodGuy]

Believe me if the US government can shut down Megaupload, which was based in Hong Kong and run by folks who never set foot on US soil, and put the owner in jail in his country of residence (New Zealand) with a constant threat of extradition to the USA for trial, you better believe that no website in any country is safe.

And they didn't do this over human trafficking. They did it over simple file sharing and copyright laws. They weren't based in the US, they just passed network traffic through our servers and its game-fucking-over for them.

In terms of credentials, I've been involved in this sort of stuff since before Americans had ever heard the word Internet. Online and the legalities that drive it have been around since we first connected computers to phone lines, long before the world wide web was created.

I'm really not trying to be a dick here but I've given numerous examples that prove the "offshore" theory is just plain wrong. Allofmp3, silkroad, megaupload. They all prove my point in one way or another.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaupload

All those sites are what's referred to as egregious offenders. No dating site can stop the occasional pro from posting an ad. And even if a girl is a pro that doesn't mean she isn't entitled to a social life. Men paying women for their company is part of every cultures traditions. I just don't see a dating site, that is obviously not an escort site getting shut down. A BP may be a different story. Those sites you mention were violating so many laws as were the individual owners on a personal level, that you couldn't count the number of felonies they were committing. The SD sites and especially SA are run by a totally different crowd. The primary owner of SD4M was once run out of a business a number of years ago. The business was not illegal in any way, but his particular business practices were. And would have eventually forced any owner to close practicing similar tactics to defraud or abuse the telecom system. Just my 2 cents.

Now hey, what about that pussy?

[JZLizard]

Being that I work on the Internet for a living I can tell you without naming names, that the biggest names in my industry have things so convoluted and offshore that you can't even track down the owners of the companies where a lot of the people are doing the real work. And this is all due to poorly written government regulations that can easily be worked around with the right attorneys and is all perfectly legal. The end result is that the Internet labor force is continuing to move to many different foreign countries and is not coming back. And I am not talking about call centers, but highly skilled engineers. They are laughing at us. Because in the European countries they get paid the same and more than we do.

Believe me if the US government can shut down Megaupload, which was based in Hong Kong and run by folks who never set foot on US soil, and put the owner in jail in his country of residence (New Zealand) with a constant threat of extradition to the USA for trial, you better believe that no website in any country is safe.

And they didn't do this over human trafficking. They did it over simple file sharing and copyright laws. They weren't based in the US, they just passed network traffic through our servers and its game-fucking-over for them.

In terms of credentials, I've been involved in this sort of stuff since before Americans had ever heard the word Internet. Online and the legalities that drive it have been around since we first connected computers to phone lines, long before the world wide web was created.

I'm really not trying to be a dick here but I've given numerous examples that prove the "offshore" theory is just plain wrong. Allofmp3, silkroad, megaupload. They all prove my point in one way or another.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaupload

[HollywoodGuy]

If you want to find a girl only to spend time in the FC with you are you a John, a Sugar Daddy, or both?

Most SDs only blog about FC activity once the arrangement is set. I don't hear a lot about how amazing dinners are at Le Petit Rouge, the ballet, or the symphony. Or how much fun the lecture series was at the City Forum. We are in this for one reason.

But few of us want a true Pro in the Sugar Bowl-I certainly don't. There are Escort Sites that work fine for that. So if an SB has a proven association with escorting then we should report them to SA. But we should be cautious about over doing the outrage. Those who live in glass houses. Make sure there is a link from a search of cell# ,email, or picture to an escort ad or site.

Sorry, but truly a bad idea. Site owners throw those complaints straight into the trash. I did get one person thrown off SD4M, but only because they sent me like 50 emails asking for money, were obviously offshore and I had a record of all the messaging they did. And they had been on there for 4 years harassing people. But to turn in pros is like the pot calling the kettle black.

[HollywoodGuy]

Going off-shores will keep the sites from getting shut down. Just take a look at our very own usasexguide which is hosted in Argentina I believe. So the only real trouble is if they run into trouble processing credit cards, kind of like we're seeing with BP and Mastercard / Visa. But this wouldn't be a death knell for these sites if it happened. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, if there's money to be made, someone will find a way. Whether it be Paypal, or some new startup that operates overseas if need be, the sugar sites will find a way to get paid, and some company will be more than happy to help them do so. My biggest concern is the sites getting a stigma attached to them like BP. If regular girls start viewing this as prostitution, then it will severely limit the amount of quality babies to choose from.

Being that I work on the Internet for a living I can tell you without naming names, that the biggest names in my industry have things so convoluted and offshore that you can't even track down the owners of the companies where a lot of the people are doing the real work. And this is all due to poorly written government regulations that can easily be worked around with the right attorneys and is all perfectly legal. The end result is that the Internet labor force is continuing to move to many different foreign countries and is not coming back. And I am not talking about call centers, but highly skilled engineers. They are laughing at us. Because in the European countries they get paid the same and more than we do.