"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[Cephlapod Love]

My understanding is that prepaid credit cards (which can be reloaded) aren't anonymous, while gift cards are. Well sort of. The level of anonymity is good enough to hide transactions from the wife but not truly anonymous. LE can track everything from the card or check that was used to purchase the prepaid or gift card (you could pay cash and bypass that one to some extent) to obtaining video surveillance of the purchaser (they are able to do this because of course criminals and terrorists use prepaid cards and burner phones). Not an issue for a typical SD or monger.

For SD purposes if your goal is just to keep the transactions off one of your "known" card, I wouldn't worry too much about putting in your social. Don't put a fake SSN in, that's identify theft and is a crime in itself.

Exactly. The charge of solicitation is usually a misdemeanor, as such there is little cost benefit to LE getting court orders to search CC records, look a surveillance tapes to identify who bought a card, etc. Er, unless one is tied to a larger crime like trafficking. It IS cost effective to get you to incriminate yourself.

If you aren't comfortable with that you might try the gift cards.

Do gift cards work on SA, SD4 M and other such sites? Can one use it for a re-occuring monthly charges for a cell phone?

[JZLizard]

I bought one from Walmart, they are looking to verify a social security number. I tried a bogus one but it would not validate.

Suggestions requested.

My understanding is that prepaid credit cards (which can be reloaded) aren't anonymous, while gift cards are. Well sort of. The level of anonymity is good enough to hide transactions from the wife but not truly anonymous. LE can track everything from the card or check that was used to purchase the prepaid or gift card (you could pay cash and bypass that one to some extent) to obtaining video surveillance of the purchaser (they are able to do this because of course criminals and terrorists use prepaid cards and burner phones). Not an issue for a typical SD or monger.

For SD purposes if your goal is just to keep the transactions off one of your "known" card, I wouldn't worry too much about putting in your social. Don't put a fake SSN in, that's identify theft and is a crime in itself.

If you aren't comfortable with that you might try the gift cards.

[JZLizard]

HWG 1-2-3 methodology mentions $ per date and I use phrases like 'I can offer 100 per meeting' in text / email. Can I get nailed?

I would think that simply specifying per date amount is probably a violation of SA's terms of service and definition of "allowance", but probably in itself not illegal since a meeting isn't necessarily sex.

However it's important to note that if the SB tells a cop you agreed to $ for sex, he can arrest you and your mug shot is now in the search engines whether you admit to it or not. , or whether he has any further proof other than taking her word for it. They might drop the charge later that afternoon but by that time the damage is done, your mug shot becomes public record and front page news. So it's not only important to not specifically specify $ for sex, its important that she doesn't perceive the arrangement as working that way -- otherwise her simple perception plus careless language with an officer could still get you arrested.

So you just have to avoid LE involvement altogether if there is any implication of pay-per-play. If you can honestly say you have never agreed to pay anything for anything, and are sure you can back it all up, then you might avoid getting arrested but it's not a guarantee. This is a position I don't like to be in at all, because if the SB goes psycho, the law is unlikely to favor our side of things.

Many years ago a girl I was banging (not an SB) got jealous and made a scene, and in order to avoid her physical blows or put myself in jeopardy of being charged by touching / subduing her, I just got in my car to get the fuck out of there. So she kicks dents in the side of my (new) car as I'm pulling out. I couldn't do anything in terms of police involvement because I was in a LTR at the time and wasn't supposed to be creeping around that night anyway. If I had gone to the cops I ran the risk of her making something up and charging me. So I just had to take my lumps (or dents in this case). Pussy is never free.

My point is that if we are playing covertly, we can't count on the law to help us when things go bad. It's kind of like illegal immigrants not being able to report being robbed for fear of being deported.

[Cephlapod Love]

HWG 1-2-3 methodology mentions $ per date and I use phrases like 'I can offer 100 per meeting' in text / email. Can I get nailed?

I assume that what we are doing on this thread is talking about Sugar Babies? In that regard the gents is only paying for the girl's time and companionship, more like the traditional meaning of the word "escort" before it was appropriated / corrupted by the Sex Industry. So the gent is offering to pay for a legitimate service.

As OP have stated, one can always get nailed or jacked around by LE and arrested. However, convictions are another thing. The point is that many jurisdictions have established "case law" that it is NOT illegal to pay a girl for a legitimate service: dancing, conversation, body rubs, reading Emily Dickinson to you. So if it can be shown that a legitimate service was paid for, then it is hard or impossible to prove that any resulting sex was paid for. This is why many of the BP girls and escorts have a disclaimer that goes something like this: Money is exchanged for personal companionship and not sexual actions. However, should consenting adults decide, no sexual acts should be construed to have been paid for. How is a prosecutor able to know what your "intent" was? Unless one opens their mouth, that is a private thought.

One can't explicitly offer money for sex acts. Period. One CAN pay a girl to read them Poetry, and then if Nature takes its course and two consenting adults, of the age of majority, engage in sex acts, it was in no way paid for. So if one wants to add a level of "protection" against conviction they could explicitly mention the fee is for (includes payment for) Poetry Reading, Body rub, stripping, etc. Just don't mentioning specific sex acts.

Of course nine times out of ten, when a dude does get caught with his pants down by LE, he opens his mouth, gives up his 5th Amendment Rights and admits to something illegal. Cops are trained to get you to do this. This is why the "Busted" video is so important.

All fwiw!

[Big Jizzle]

First of all I want to say I enjoy reading this thread. It's very entertaining and informative. I plan on partaking in the hobby at some point, but I might be maybe 8 to 10 years away from being a real SD, unless there are some mid to late 30's SD's here. I'm learning what to do and not do, so when the time comes I'll be able to hit the ground running so to speak.

Thanks,

Uncle J.

[PghGuy2005]

I bought one from Walmart, they are looking to verify a social security number. I tried a bogus one but it would not validate.

Suggestions requested.

Thanks.

T.

I have gotten One Vanilla prepaid debit cards whose max is 500. Did not have to provide any info. To register the card (for online purchases, gas stations) used a bogus name / address and the same info who should be entered when required by a transaction even though only the ZIP is matched.

[Telcova]

I bought one from Walmart, they are looking to verify a social security number. I tried a bogus one but it would not validate.

Suggestions requested.

Thanks.

T.

[HollywoodGuy]

So my little Hawaiian Princess has just decided that she needs some refuge from her family that she was staying with in L. A. So she made me save her and she is now living with me for the next week?. Month? I don't know and I don't really care. Now its just me feeding her and that's about it. I estimate she will cost me .3 a day at the most.

She is almost a zero maintenance girl. So totally unexpected, but what the hell. All I have to deal with is my ATF and we will find a way to manage. My princess is OK with the ATF coming over twice a week to make sure I get laid properly. So I think we will all be OK.

She is still a virgin -1 and I agreed I will not try to fuck her as long as we can do everything else. And she agreed. These are quality problems gentleman.

[PghGuy2005]

...
That said, however, if one has been talking sex for money via email / text and shows up for a M&G it is all over: especially if one is carrying the phone / device that has those texts / communications tied to it. Female LE will text / call the way she made contact and when it goes off in your possession there is no denying it was you: electronic offer made, person tied to electronic offer, done deal.
....

HWG 1-2-3 methodology mentions $ per date and I use phrases like 'I can offer 100 per meeting' in text / email. Can I get nailed?

[JZLizard]

OK, that is a good point. Would not the "fix" be to avoid all girls that are "not of the federal minimum age?"

In a perfect world, yes that would prevent individual SDs from getting involved in trafficking cases, but human error does occur and I wonder how many SDs are going to ask for identification from every girl, knowing she is going to ask for their ident in return (thereby exposing themselves and violating my anonymity recommendation). Not to mention the girl could have a fake ident. Technically the SD sites do not allow girls under 18, and that should be avoidance enough, but history is shown that we still need to be on our toes about this.

However, it's important to understand that prevention of individual SDs getting busted is one of two distinct issues I've been discussing here, and IMO the lesser of the two risks.

The big risk is that "something like" a trafficking case brings unwanted attention to the SD sites, shutting down the commerce pipeline that makes them possible. And, all it would take is one high profile media case of the scenario I've described. It doesn't matter if SDs check her IDs and avoid her or not, it could still happen if people see SD sites as an escort mechanism. That's the part I think we should all be worried about if we want to preserve the hobby.

The trafficking example is just that -- an example. Something like the Google exec / heroin call girl media case could also bring similar, unwanted attention. Anything that piques prosecutors interest. Recently it was "revenge porn" sites, in the near future it could be SD sites.

[BigTigger]

I agree with JL. Airbnb is a bit too risky.

I believe BigTig found a room rental on Craigslist back in the day. He was up front with the woman who was renting the room, and she was cool with it. If you've a large rotation and you're looking to reduce room costs, I'd go the CL route.

Wow that is a great memory. But correct, I actually had two different placed. The second one was a little closer. The good thing about CL is that it can be a cash business and as long as you pay and don't cause drama, they will not mess with you.

I recently looked at another place and the woman showed me one room and told me the other room was rented by two men who brought there women there. She didn't ask any questions as long as the money is on time. I've found that, even if you want to be upfront, you can't be too specific. I would mainly say that I'm starting new business in the area and would not be there much. I'd ask if they had any restrictions on overnight guests staying with me and that would get the message across. .

I only resorted to this because my hotel bills were exceeding 1 k per month. The room came in at $600 per month and I had more access. My only major requirement was a private bath, which made it harder to find.

BigTigg.

[Member #5570]

Which woods are you in?

Hartford, CT.

[Mike7794]

OK, that is a good point. Would not the "fix" be to avoid all girls that are "not of the federal minimum age?" What is that age 18 or 21?

Age of consent is between 16 and 18 in the USA states with each one having their own laws. But it appears as though 18 is federal age of consent, but realize this is not thorough or exhaustive. Do the Trafficking statutes list a different age? Anyone have a better reference?.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_o..._North_America

scroll down and look at summary of law for your state

My personal belief is that anyone 21+ messing with someone under 18 should be in trouble. Apparently several legislatures do not agree with me.

So would not keeping the age of one's SBs over 18 avoid trafficking issue?

Damn that was an eye opener for my state. Not only 16, but if the girl is 13 or older it is lawful as long as the boy is under 18. What kind of s* it that? I have a 13 year old daughter, and she can have sex with a boy under 18? I'm shocked really.

[Mike7794]

There are way too many GPS in my neck of the woods.

I got this response from another girl on SA and just sat there shaking my head. Damn, where the fuck they pull these numbers from?

Lessnp
Hi please see my expectations located on my profile (2k per meeting) let me know if manageable :-)

Those girls are throwing something against the wall to see if it sticks, or like playing the lottery.

[Cephlapod Love]

Part of the issue is that the definition of trafficking is broader in reach than many realize. For example, a girl could be of the age of consent in the state she resides and be with her boyfriend legally. If he decides to hook her up on a SD site and uploads photos to the site, if she is not of the federal minimum age then he has just trafficked her across state boundaries. No coercion or forcible act needed. Whoever is the unlucky SD that gets involved with her is now a part of the trafficking case. I doubt he'd be convicted but who wants their mug shot in the news?

OK, that is a good point. Would not the "fix" be to avoid all girls that are "not of the federal minimum age?" What is that age 18 or 21?

Age of consent is between 16 and 18 in the USA states with each one having their own laws. But it appears as though 18 is federal age of consent, but realize this is not thorough or exhaustive. Do the Trafficking statutes list a different age? Anyone have a better reference?.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_o..._North_America

scroll down and look at summary of law for your state

My personal belief is that anyone 21+ messing with someone under 18 should be in trouble. Apparently several legislatures do not agree with me.

So would not keeping the age of one's SBs over 18 avoid trafficking issue?