"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

**JZLizard** · 07-15-15 12:34

Originally Posted by FredMoore [View Original Post]

SB vs Ho: JL is a young master doing more dating than sugaring. I would too if I could score a 20+ yr old for free. But all SBs are escorting with rare exceptions. What girl 20 to 45 yrs junior to the guy is going to truly want to hang out with a Daddy as a real relationship? Not many. And how many would do so without money involved? Not many. Soooo, the difference lies in the numbers.

As I've mentioned a couple of dozen times here before (perhaps more), I'm not young. As far as I can tell I'm actually significantly older than the average poster here. Taking good care of one's self and staying well preserved definitely helps but is really not the end game.

While caught in the ad nauseam loop I should also probably repeat that what I've suggested here in this forum has never been about getting a 20-something for free -- my SD approach consists of something that in industrial pay terms could be thought of as more of an incentive plan than a pre-agreed upon salary. The girls still get paid the way I do it, it's just a twist on how and when to pay and how much to pay (then there's also the side benefit of my method being perfectly legal, whereas most of the alternatives can get your mug shot archived on the web in perpetuity for all to see when they Google your name).

Failure to understand the facts and the reasons behind the methodology is a certain recipe for failure though. This is why I'm trying to clear up the misconception about my age or modus operandi. Most of the suggestions I've made here are part of a bigger picture that must be embraced in its entirety in order to be effective. It requires a shift in philosophy, but that philosophy must be built on a foundation of facts and reasons, and if grasp of those is unattainable, then I'll just say my methods are not going to work if the focus just isn't there.

My suggestions are for those who want to get the most out of the bowl, and when I say most I mean QUALITY not quantity.

It is true that I have a lot more experience dating than I do paying for sex, and yes that experience pays huge dividends in cases of TRUE sugar arrangements -- you simply get much more for your money if you have actual game. Game can be developed, but its important to note the distinction between creating financial arrangements for sex and anything resembling dating. Someone who regularly visits escorts is probably better at handling the entire business transaction than I am, because that's not my thing. Having true requires staying about two steps ahead of the ladies on a cognitive level -- not every guy wants to invest that level of thought, would prefer to just charge forward with whatever their little head tells them to do, and take whatever is available to them on the easy-pay menu. I get that -- it's the convenience factor. It's like the difference between eating healthy versus going to the fast food drive thru every day and loading up on burgers and fries. The attraction of a short term convenience wins out over the long-term consequence of stroking out or dying of cancer, because so many people find it hard to shift their philosophy to a more long-term approach. Honestly there are times I want that level of convenience too -- real sugaring is hard work -- but taking the path of least resistance results in higher quantity lower quality. What I'm trying to convey is it has very little to do with youth, good looks, etc. Those things help of course (to some degree) but there are also a staggering number of young ladies who won't think twice about fucking someone 25-35 years older than them without a great deal of thought toward the amount of payment, as long as your able to get into that part of their psyche.

My previous point was really less than all this, though. It's just that probably nobody here wants to see the SD sites get increasingly polluted with junkies and escorts. I'm sure they will always be there to some extent, it's just that as long as people continue to use the SD sites as escort mechanisms, they are jeopardizing the entire SD scene. This is really more of a statement about the long term sustainability of this particular hobby, something I think is probably of interest to everyone reading.

**FredMoore** · 07-15-15 11:02

Stinky pussy: Has been addressed often here. It is usually a bacterial overgrowth called Bacterial vaginosis treatable with oral and vaginal therapies. Tell your SB to go see her Gyn. Of course the worst case is an unclean pussy filled with multiple SDs' cum.

SB vs Ho: JL is a young master doing more dating than sugaring. I would too if I could score a 20+ yr old for free. But all SBs are escorting with rare exceptions. What girl 20 to 45 yrs junior to the guy is going to truly want to hang out with a Daddy as a real relationship? Not many. And how many would do so without money involved? Not many. Soooo, the difference lies in the numbers. If an SB has one guy she is seeing and sleeping with for a little help, she can justify it as a "relationship" If she is seeing 2 or more guys for money and simultaneous sex then she is a practicing Ho. IMHO. Everybody protesteth too much I would say. Lets just enjoy it while it lasts. There is no other venue I can think of where a 60 yr old guy can have a 20 yr old "GF" Overt escorts who have a website and / or a service are at the other end of the spectrum where there is no doubt what she is doing.

Welcome Krill. Sounds like you can write the book on your own since you have scored 18 SBs in 6 mos. What is your price point if you will share with us? And what is your demographic of choice? I have always thought that money is king and every girl out there has a price. After all, they are on SA for a reason $. If you have the resources to pay more than the competition then you will have an endless stream of pussy.

Multiples: Are too confusing for me. And you end up paying more to just bang two girls.

**First Half** · 07-15-15 10:19

Originally Posted by Mike7794 [View Original Post]

I'm talking about stinky pussy. I've posted on this before in the past. Nothing makes me lose my hard on faster then the scent of stinky pussy. I had it tonight. Did a M & G for lunch today, then decided to meet tonight for the FC. I had two women in the spring who had it. I didn't have to deal with this for the five years with my ex. She always took good care of herself. Have I become spoiled? WTH? Need a little feedback guys. Thanks in advance.

I haven't run into a stinky pussy in the last few years, but I can tell you it's the same for me. Instant boner killer.

**ToeLover57** · 07-15-15 09:54

Anyone seen her from SD4 ME? She emailed me she was an escort and I could schedule her through her service. But the email was just another woman's name. I didn 't bother. Too many spams and scammers on that site compared to SA.

**Krill** · 07-15-15 08:04

Greetings,

I fell into the SB hobby in January and have run about 18 girls so far. Typically 18-24 yr old only. I play in RVA and Cville.

I just discovered this forum last week! Imagine my surprise! So cool to read about all of us encountering a lot of the same situations!

What is interesting is that I guess I developed my own specific game plan that I roll on every girl, and it works very well for me. Just kinda "worked out that way".

Granted, I pay a little more in order to blind them. I also hit the FC on meet #1. I don't have time for M&G's.

All of that aside. I'm curious: There are the 'steps' that are put together on here. If all you guys are using the same approach on a finite number of girls in the SB at any given time aren; t the odds likely that a girl will get the same game layed on her by multiple guys? It just seems like this 'plan of attack' will fail with evryone using it.

Sure, new girls sign up all the time. But then wham! They get hit by roughly the same approach from 5 different guys on their first day?

Or am I missing something?

Anyway. Nice to meet you all!

**JackCat58** · 07-15-15 06:37

I know, right! Had Sb last night and couldn't even eat the pussy, which is disappointing, cause I love to eat the pussy, she was Brazilian so maybe it's a culture thing there, but of the 4 SB I have been with, 3 have had stinky pussy and they knew beforehand they were going to fuck, so what is up. Same here too, hard to keep the enthusiasm.

Originally Posted by Mike7794 [View Original Post]

I'm talking about stinky pussy. I've posted on this before in the past. Nothing makes me lose my hard on faster then the scent of stinky pussy. I had it tonight. Did a M & G for lunch today, then decided to meet tonight for the FC. I had two women in the spring who had it. I didn't have to deal with this for the five years with my ex. She always took good care of herself. Have I become spoiled? WTH? Need a little feedback guys. Thanks in advance.

**MulchMan** · 07-15-15 06:22

Why are SBs from China and Japan favoriting me? Also getting picture requests from SBs in California. Seems like a waste. Thanks.

**HollywoodGuy** · 07-15-15 05:51

I decided to take a break from the virgin and go out on a dinner date with a 30 year old 5'9" 119 lb x model. I guess she would be a 9 in most guys book. It was a no sex no sugar date that lasted for 5 hours. An hour of dinner and 4 more hours back at my place on the couch just talking and getting to know one another. This girl is looking for something serious and it was different being with an older girl. But she was still a very pretty girl.

I liked her and she liked me. I am sure I will be seeing her again. I made no attempt to fuck this new girl and she appreciated it. There was just enough touching to know that there was some chemistry, enough to have an FC date eventually. She really just wants to find the right guy to give it up to.

**Crow999** · 07-15-15 02:46

I have seen more potential SB's advertising in groups.

The little heads is thinking in doubling the pleasure, big heads wins and thinking double the trouble.

What you say?

**JZLizard** · 07-15-15 00:47

Originally Posted by DandyDon [View Original Post]

In my latest round of searching, I have definitely noticed an uptick in the number of girls who I either know or suspect to be drug addicted. One girl just seemed too eager to meet immediately and was telling me to come on over for a quick BJ. Another admitted to be hooked on Opana. Then another who seemed nice enough and sweet enough just seemed to look like she had taken a turn not for the better in her pics. With heroin making a big comeback these days and IV drug use, I would just stay clear. I drug addict is far more likely to steal from you, get violent with you, transmit a disease to you. I did a M and G with a very attractive young lady, but she seemed erratic and almost comically desperate that I was sure drugs had taken control of her.

That being said, I know a lot of these girls smoke weed, and as long as it seems to be under control and they know not to do it or even have it on them around me, I can live with that.

With all this being said, and I am going to be come across as a hypocrit, but I just saw the 20 year tonight that I saw on Sunday. She is so sweet and nice and into sex, the thought ocurred to me what is someone like when they are on ecstasy? I don't know if anyone is truly that bubbly, happy, and nice, and it seems like she is very sensitive to every aspect of touching.

This is one of the problems I'd love to combat -- the blurring of the line between escorting and sugar babying. I understand lots of guys want pay-per-date fun. Meet, off to the FC, pay her the sugar and she's gone. But just because the transaction was initiated on an SD site or because the guy asked her to call him daddy doesn't mean it is anything remotely resembling a true SD / SB arrangement.

One of the defining features of an SD / SB arrangement is that there is some notion of allowance for companionship rather than a direct contract / agreement for sex / payment. The former is legal, the latter is not. The legal "safety" (perception of) is what makes the bowl attractive to both SDs (or guys who really just want the variety and discretion of hiring of escorts, but the legal safety --and perceived health safety-- advantages of the SD scene).

The problem is that everyone wants this perceived safety. This means the scene gets polluted both with johns looking for escorts they want to call SBs, and for escorts that want to call themselves SBs in order to reduce their likelihood of arrest. End result is lots of girls trolling SD sites that are really escorts in disguise, and unprotected dicks getting inserted unwittingly into drug infested pussies. Drug infestation doesn't necessarily translate directly to STDs in every case, but like you, I'd rather keep the drug scene and sugaring separate.

I actually see the blurry line between an escort transaction and a true SD / SB arrangement as being the future downfall of the hobby. My guess is that there will be a few more high-profile cases in the media (like the GoogleExec meets heroin-wench ordeal), then regulation will step in and find creative ways to start shutting down access to the websites as we know them. At that point there will still be underground activity just like exists today on BP / CL and such, but it will be way less upscale and mostly polluted by druggies. When that happens, it will no longer be an attractive pursuit to the category of women I would consider true SBs, and there will be little except druggy skanks and nandos left on whatever is left of the sites.

**Dandy Don** · 07-15-15 00:04

Originally Posted by PghGuy2005 [View Original Post]

Got in touch with her through other means not SB / SD sites.

Her phone # and pictures reveal nothing so she is not a pro maybe UTR though her name showed an arrest for DUI and possession of drug paraphernalia.

Why am I even thinking about taking the plunge? She is 22 and is quite pretty in the pics. She asked (all communication via text) if I had pain medication.

If I do end up going what should I watch out for. Lives with her parents and has no transportation may be due to the DUI.

What can I say bros this is the only pretty young thing I could get!

In my latest round of searching, I have definitely noticed an uptick in the number of girls who I either know or suspect to be drug addicted. One girl just seemed too eager to meet immediately and was telling me to come on over for a quick BJ. Another admitted to be hooked on Opana. Then another who seemed nice enough and sweet enough just seemed to look like she had taken a turn not for the better in her pics. With heroin making a big comeback these days and IV drug use, I would just stay clear. I drug addict is far more likely to steal from you, get violent with you, transmit a disease to you. I did a M and G with a very attractive young lady, but she seemed erratic and almost comically desperate that I was sure drugs had taken control of her.

That being said, I know a lot of these girls smoke weed, and as long as it seems to be under control and they know not to do it or even have it on them around me, I can live with that.

With all this being said, and I am going to be come across as a hypocrit, but I just saw the 20 year tonight that I saw on Sunday. She is so sweet and nice and into sex, the thought ocurred to me what is someone like when they are on ecstasy? I don't know if anyone is truly that bubbly, happy, and nice, and it seems like she is very sensitive to every aspect of touching.

**Mike7794** · 07-14-15 22:39

I'm talking about stinky pussy. I've posted on this before in the past. Nothing makes me lose my hard on faster then the scent of stinky pussy. I had it tonight. Did a M & G for lunch today, then decided to meet tonight for the FC. I had two women in the spring who had it. I didn't have to deal with this for the five years with my ex. She always took good care of herself. Have I become spoiled? WTH? Need a little feedback guys. Thanks in advance.

**ReaperGuy** · 07-14-15 21:59

Originally Posted by BradAM [View Original Post]

I recently had something similar happen to me. I was just at the point of scheduling the MnG when overnight she blocked me. Another pre-POT blocked me at the same time and then deleted her profile. I think they were sharing notes and discovered the similarities between the notes I was sending them. My steps are far enough away from HWG that I doubt she got a near note from another SD.

BAM.

I'm pretty upset with myself for not taking the time to re-write the steps before messaging her, just the thought of screwing myself out of that nice looking pussy makes me a bit ill. Oh well, NEXT!

**FyrGuy33** · 07-14-15 17:37

Well, I was correct. Mr. Wonderful turned out to be "a douche bag" as she put it. We spent 2-1/2 hours in the FC this afternoon catching up with each other. Glad she is back because the new hunt has been a bit disappointing.

**JZLizard** · 07-14-15 15:43

Originally Posted by HollywoodGuy [View Original Post]

Luckily the budget is now firmly at a $ although I know it will creep to $.2 and already has after 2 dates. But it's all good for now. When a girl likes you she will be reasonable. I will continue to update. And BTW I don't get insulted. This board is an honest sharing of opinions where we all agree to disagree from time to time. Back to work now.

If I thought for a moment you would have been insulted I would have just bit my lip. Like you said, this is a place where opinions collide, merge, divide. Whatever.

And yes, charm can supplant monetary rewards sometimes.

I just find that once you answer the call for more, when it comes to women, the calls will only increase in frequency and intensity, ultimately leading to the opposite of our desired effect. The same principle can be applied to marriage or a LTR. When the SO makes a demand or ultimatum (such as "give up golfing and spend more time with the kids or else I'm leaving you" it is absolutely critical that we not only stand our ground, but turn the tables on them to discourage that kind of behavior by asking if they'd like to be shown the door or if they can find it themselves? The paradox in all of this is that turning the tables on them and taking control of the situation is what they really WANT us to do (despite what they say they want), and is the *only* successful tactic against such behavior. Those requests for more, or demands, or ultimatums are really tests in disguise.

Even once we know what we NEED to do, it can sometimes be a challenge to balance needs with the short-term wants dictated to us by our smaller head. My sporadic sugaring activities make it a little easier to deal with, so I mostly mention it for the sake of those looking for long-term SBs.

All of this is one reason I offer nothing up front and gift based on performance. I know my methods are not the norm here -- but I'd love to hear of any other folks refining the "gift of unspoken amount after the fact" technique. It just solves so many problems.