"Sugar Babies" and "Arrangements"

[Harley32]

I started off with What's your Price several years ago and found it was a waste of time. Why pay upfront and be out time only to find out it's not going to work out? I soon found Sugar Daddy for Me and it was a LOT more honest in my opinion. But there are a LOT of ladies on there that have been on there for years. They just set up a new profile and set out their net again. But it is semi-reasonably priced compared to Seeking Arrangement. SA is a good site but $70 for 30 days is just highway robbery. SD Today was recommended to me by one of of my on again off again sugar babies. I had some initial luck on there and given that's it's free, it's hard to beat. But they only keep your email for 30 days or so so it's hard to keep up with who've you've talked with before and lately it's seemed to have really slowed down.

I don't live in Atlanta but travel there frequently enough that it's a good place for me to play. But, I'm not willing to make a trip just for a meet and greet. So I approach things a little differently than some of the other guys have discussed on here. I do try to develop a rapport and has already been said, be a gentleman, you'll stand out in a good way. I try to find out first what kind of arrangement they're envisioning and what their financial expectations. If either don't meet mine, I thank them for their time and move on. There are a lot of ladies who are seeking to meet during the day for instance and that simply won't work for me or they have GPS. If the financial part seems to be out of whack I'll simply say that I'm unable to meet their expectation but I'd be able to do X if they're interested. It is a bit of a numbers game. You may get a great response from a lady that might not have seemed like you'd be a good fit and hear nothing from someone that seems a great fit. Just go with it and take advantage of the opportunities that come your way. I do seem to have better luck with younger AA ladies, 18-22. But I'm also seeing a 38 yr old white lady from a smaller town that's smokin hot. You just never know. If you don't mind doing some driving there are some gems out there that don't get as much traffic due to their distance from town.

One thing that I've found is that it takes a lot of work to make this work, at least it does in my case. I have high expectations with regard to time commitment from them (min 4 hrs which would include a meal and some overnights) and a pretty reasonable donation (100-125 per visit). Now I'll spend nearly that amount again getting a hotel room (very few are able to host) and dinner. But the payoff is worth it for me. I do enjoy the chase and it's a very different experience than seeing an escort for an hr.

For someone just getting into this I'd suggest either SDFM or SA and just join for a month to start. Because these ladies aren't pros it may take a few weeks before you're able to work everything out and meet. And it's often feast or famine. You could have a dry week where nothing happens and then one where 5 ladies suddenly want to meet. Better to have several you're working on at once but not too many.

[Bowtie]

LOL, being the least creepy has worked for me on several occasions! I can't believe how many assholes are out there, treat the young ladies nicely and be a gentleman, and it pays off. Some of the stories these girls have seen, damn. I started using sugar daddy today, it has dried up, but I still look because its free. I also use what's your price, had good luck there but a lot of flakes, now switching to the masters suggestion of seeking arrangements (master being HWG). While the pickings are clearly different here in central Ohio, his wisdom transfers well. Read up on his 5 steps if you haven't already. It works.

A couple of things to keep in mind. From their perspective:

1) You don't get what you don't ask for -- hence the crazy high starting prices -- who knows they might snag a rich guy that really doesn't care about "market value" -- on the other hand they mind not get much action.

2) Many gals are new - - they don't know what their "market value" really is. They are conditioned by media stories that glamorize "Sugar Daddy" relationships as well as the "averages" and examples sites like SA use in their blog, etc.

Ask them about their prior experiences. Many of them will confide they really don't have any. Tell them "in the past when I've had an arrangement like this, typically I've done xyz".

3) Unlike the escort world where negotiating listed rates is frowned upon by many women, it is a very normal and accepted part of the Sugar world. Be tactful of course but don't discard someone just because they have crazy "list prices"

Listen to what they say. What are they really looking for?

Also keep in mind, being a gentleman goes a long way. A nearly universal comment I've heard from younger women is guys their age don't know how to treat a lady.

Ultimately you want to make the gifts only a portion of what you bring to the table. The only way they see that is by meeting and interacting with you.

Some of my best relationships started after she'd met a couple of other guys (sometimes for a M&G, sometimes for more) and realized that I was the least creepy of the guys she'd met.

[HollywoodGuy]

A couple of things to keep in mind. From their perspective:

1) You don't get what you don't ask for -- hence the crazy high starting prices -- who knows they might snag a rich guy that really doesn't care about "market value" -- on the other hand they mind not get much action.

2) Many gals are new - - they don't know what their "market value" really is. They are conditioned by media stories that glamorize "Sugar Daddy" relationships as well as the "averages" and examples sites like SA use in their blog, etc.

Ask them about their prior experiences. Many of them will confide they really don't have any. Tell them "in the past when I've had an arrangement like this, typically I've done xyz".

3) Unlike the escort world where negotiating listed rates is frowned upon by many women, it is a very normal and accepted part of the Sugar world. Be tactful of course but don't discard someone just because they have crazy "list prices"

Listen to what they say. What are they really looking for?

Also keep in mind, being a gentleman goes a long way. A nearly universal comment I've heard from younger women is guys their age don't know how to treat a lady.

Ultimately you want to make the gifts only a portion of what you bring to the table. The only way they see that is by meeting and interacting with you.

Some of my best relationships started after she'd met a couple of other guys (sometimes for a M&G, sometimes for more) and realized that I was the least creepy of the guys she'd met.

I suppose it all goes to supply and demand. This is excellent advice especially in areas of low availability or for anyone looking to upgrade. My area is the opposite. I never invest the extra time to "maybe" breakdown or negotiate with a GPS girl. Especially in person.

Like you or someone said in earlier posts, there is an investment of time that can outstrip the dollars spent. Unfortunately I don't have the time but I do have the abundance of new girls coming on to the market on a regular basis. If I could ever make the time I would definitely consider it to land a hottie that is in need of a more balanced relationship.

[Steak 404]

A couple of things to keep in mind. From their perspective:

1) You don't get what you don't ask for -- hence the crazy high starting prices -- who knows they might snag a rich guy that really doesn't care about "market value" -- on the other hand they mind not get much action.

2) Many gals are new - - they don't know what their "market value" really is. They are conditioned by media stories that glamorize "Sugar Daddy" relationships as well as the "averages" and examples sites like SA use in their blog, etc.

Ask them about their prior experiences. Many of them will confide they really don't have any. Tell them "in the past when I've had an arrangement like this, typically I've done xyz".

3) Unlike the escort world where negotiating listed rates is frowned upon by many women, it is a very normal and accepted part of the Sugar world. Be tactful of course but don't discard someone just because they have crazy "list prices"

Listen to what they say. What are they really looking for?

Also keep in mind, being a gentleman goes a long way. A nearly universal comment I've heard from younger women is guys their age don't know how to treat a lady.

Ultimately you want to make the gifts only a portion of what you bring to the table. The only way they see that is by meeting and interacting with you.

Some of my best relationships started after she'd met a couple of other guys (sometimes for a M&G, sometimes for more) and realized that I was the least creepy of the guys she'd met.

[Steak 404]

Bobby-.

Regarding GPS. The one's that are crazy GPS discard as quickly as possible. The one's that are more reasonable offer to meet for an unpaid M&G (coffee, a drink, lunch). This is where the your time investment starts to add up but you can do some things to minimize how much time you burn.

When they meet you, like you, feel comfortable with you all of a sudden those GPS numbers they toss around start to melt away. On your end if you don't like them or the two of you don't "click," you move on.

In a lot of ways this is similar to the strippers you do off the clock quasifreebies with (I play in that space as well). The ones it works with work because they like you not because you throw them exorbitant sums.

Ultimately the ones that will be the best fit with you aren't the ones that you "outbid" the competition for but the ones that like you.

[HollywoodGuy]

Good look out Steak and Bowtie. I've been out of the civie dating game for a minute but have managed to parlay a few of my stripper friends from Follies into semi-regular hook-ups without (additional outside the club) compensation so hopefully some of that'll transfer over. Like some of you guys I'm looking more for that balanced connection between physical and mental. Got plenty of disposable income so I left the backpage train a long time ago as I just got tired of the attitudes, hygiene and hit-or-miss nature. Agencies have been good as long as you're ok with confining the interactions to the inside of the incall and that's it. The stripper scene has been. Well it's been fun but good lord are some of these girls scary damaged. I've dipped my dick in crazy too many times and am trying to ease out of there. Problem is crazy seems to know just how to push your buttons to keep you coming back for another taste!

So yeah, I've tried Arrangement Finders (that advertise here) and every decent looking 21-25 yr old I came across definitely had GPS asking for obnoxious gifts. Maybe it was the time of year I was looking or something but I had a string of misses on there. I'm hoping that summer will bring a few of the hungry college girls back to the A that'll be more reasonable. What sites have you guys had the best luck with?

As a dating industry professional of sorts. I have worked and still do work for many as a database consultant. Stick to SA and SD4M. I can not vouch for any others. Except the very mainstream sites like eHarmony, etc. But for sugar, only those two.

[Bobbyj29]

Good look out Steak and Bowtie. I've been out of the civie dating game for a minute but have managed to parlay a few of my stripper friends from Follies into semi-regular hook-ups without (additional outside the club) compensation so hopefully some of that'll transfer over. Like some of you guys I'm looking more for that balanced connection between physical and mental. Got plenty of disposable income so I left the backpage train a long time ago as I just got tired of the attitudes, hygiene and hit-or-miss nature. Agencies have been good as long as you're ok with confining the interactions to the inside of the incall and that's it. The stripper scene has been. Well it's been fun but good lord are some of these girls scary damaged. I've dipped my dick in crazy too many times and am trying to ease out of there. Problem is crazy seems to know just how to push your buttons to keep you coming back for another taste!

So yeah, I've tried Arrangement Finders (that advertise here) and every decent looking 21-25 yr old I came across definitely had GPS asking for obnoxious gifts. Maybe it was the time of year I was looking or something but I had a string of misses on there. I'm hoping that summer will bring a few of the hungry college girls back to the A that'll be more reasonable. What sites have you guys had the best luck with?

[Steak 404]

As for cost, if I would take the time to put into a spreadsheet and actually figure the cost per F, backpage or other escort site would be WAY LESS cash, aggrivation and time. Not even close, but I need the emotional connection, its more real than the GFE a lot of guys are hunting..

We all spend differently.

Regarding costs, all in, if you went the Backpage route that is without question the least expensive route.

If you went with a better agency ($300/ hr and up) you are spending more on going the agency route (depends of frequency) but probably not much. They should be comparable. You can get a good piece of Sugar for much less than $300/ hour and you don't pay for "hanging out" time or dinners (than the check).

The real "cost" is your time.

Really kind of flips this whole thing on its head in a way. With an escort ostensibly you are paying for her time and availability (I know, and to leave). With a Sugar Baby you spend (invest) your time vetting them and dealing with their unproductive behaviors (like no shows and cancellations) as well as the occasional gift to an incompatible baby. As an offset the actual gift you give her is typically less than a comparable "pro".

[Bowtie]

Listening is the key, get them to open up and listen to them. None have a perfect life, otherwise they wouldn't be looking. I'm sure there is that perfect baby, and I know I keep on looking for her! Game, yey, been 30 years since I needed that, now I "practice" all the time, SO with me or not. As for cost, if I would take the time to put into a spreadsheet and actually figure the cost per F, backpage or other escort site would be WAY LESS cash, aggrivation and time. Not even close, but I need the emotional connection, its more real than the GFE a lot of guys are hunting. The feeling of a baby opening up her life crying on my shoulder is deep. Makes for incredible experience in the FC, plus I get self satisfaction in helping. Just my thing, but damn it can be trying and requires huge amounts of my energy. Part of my addiction. I'm sure you guys have already seen the richmond site. I've been following for several years now. A MUST READ if you're just getting started in the sugar bowl. Good luck and be safe.

I'd echo this.

When it is good it is really good. Young early 20 something tight shit that, while they still are about a gift, aren't booking 6 other guys a day and hosting out of a notel.

That said, Bowtie's word "flakey" is a good one. There is nothing reliable about 99% of them.

You have to embrace the thrill of the hunt and value the intimacy that comes with this type of thing that isn't available with most traditional pros.

If you can't embrace the thrill of the hunt and find the private time to be markedly better, I suggest just calling the best agency with reliable gals you can afford. The net money spent will be similar maybe a little higher for the agency and you will save a lot of time.

Another consideration is you have to have a little "game" to pull off sugar. You don't have to be great looking or loaded but you do have to talk (& listen) to women. If the last time you civie dated was when you courted your wife 20 years ago you need to dust off your game.

[Steak 404]

Bob, good luck on the juggle, its tough, and from my experience, not easy. The sugar "bowl" is by no means a given, these young ladies are very flakie, and not at all consistant or reliable. This may be driven by location, and potential sugar payout, I don't know. I try to keep 2 or 3 in the mix so my needs are met, even then it can go dry in an instant or be overly time (or $) consuming. As for excuses, I've always worked heavy hours, so that allows me time away, but it does make getting that work done difficult. Give it a try, then if it doesn't work, look for a solid utr. Best of luck, Bowtie.

I'd echo this.

When it is good it is really good. Young early 20 something tight shit that, while they still are about a gift, aren't booking 6 other guys a day and hosting out of a notel.

That said, Bowtie's word "flakey" is a good one. There is nothing reliable about 99% of them.

You have to embrace the thrill of the hunt and value the intimacy that comes with this type of thing that isn't available with most traditional pros.

If you can't embrace the thrill of the hunt and find the private time to be markedly better, I suggest just calling the best agency with reliable gals you can afford. The net money spent will be similar maybe a little higher for the agency and you will save a lot of time.

Another consideration is you have to have a little "game" to pull off sugar. You don't have to be great looking or loaded but you do have to talk (& listen) to women. If the last time you civie dated was when you courted your wife 20 years ago you need to dust off your game.

[Bowtie]

Bob, good luck on the juggle, its tough, and from my experience, not easy. The sugar "bowl" is by no means a given, these young ladies are very flakie, and not at all consistant or reliable. This may be driven by location, and potential sugar payout, I don't know. I try to keep 2 or 3 in the mix so my needs are met, even then it can go dry in an instant or be overly time (or $) consuming. As for excuses, I've always worked heavy hours, so that allows me time away, but it does make getting that work done difficult. Give it a try, then if it doesn't work, look for a solid utr. Best of luck, Bowtie.

Been wanting to step into this type of scene for quite a while because it seems like the ideal setup. My holdup has been the time commitment with trying to juggle a whole other relationship (what with the job and SO taking up so much time). For this reason, I've been hitting the strip clubs for a quick fix when I can get away, but that's a little hit or miss as well, as my favs are flaky about working a set schedule so I'm never guaranteed not to have a wasted visit. Any of you guys with SO or fam or other significant time sink have any suggestions on how you fit this kind of arrangement into your rotation? Thanks for the help.

[Bobbyj29]

Been wanting to step into this type of scene for quite a while because it seems like the ideal setup. My holdup has been the time commitment with trying to juggle a whole other relationship (what with the job and SO taking up so much time). For this reason, I've been hitting the strip clubs for a quick fix when I can get away, but that's a little hit or miss as well, as my favs are flaky about working a set schedule so I'm never guaranteed not to have a wasted visit. Any of you guys with SO or fam or other significant time sink have any suggestions on how you fit this kind of arrangement into your rotation? Thanks for the help.

[PWhipped]

It works for me.

http://coach4ula.wix.com/fivesteps

This is why some of us have good luck and success finding UTR and civvies.

Wet Dreams, PW.

[Steak 404]

As an aside, Richmond of all places has a great forum on Sugar Babies. 9000+ posts and growing. Lots of national (non-Richmond) guys contributing including Hollywood Guy.

Obviously I wouldn't suggest trying to read all 9000 posts but for someone that's new to this and wants to learn I'd say that's a good "RTFF" place to start.

Here's the link http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/sh...mateurs-or-Not.

I've been at this a while and I'd say there's a lot of "how to" wisdom there (mixed, like everywhere on USASG, with a lot of worthless posts) that is a pretty good road map.

[HollywoodGuy]

Some good stuff. Thanks for sharing. I use a variation on that. The most important thing about your system is you have a process and you know where you are going. Guys with sales backgrounds will get this innately. Have a process, control and direct the conversation. Recognize it is a numbers game and you will have to go through a lot of "prospects" to find ones that are worthwhile. As a side note, I'd add that creating the ad or profile and having them respond to you vs. The other way around helps you to drive your process.

On the SD sites I am the aggressor but on CL I let them come to me. In my area on the SD sites the female aggressors are mostly GPS, UTR or below my standards of physical beauty. I aim for the NP first timers (and many times settle for less). But I never settle on my need for exclusivity if a girl wants to become a regular. Also my target audience is 18-25, non-white (usually AA or mixed with a smattering of asian and latina), and spinners (the tighter the better). I aim for the 7/9's (face/body) to conserve on the funds.