"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[FredMoore]

All of you who are able to snare these lovely lasses, do you treat any of them like girl friends even occasionally I. E. Take them out for dinner, dancing etc which would mean that you do not have a SO to worry about.

That is one thing that I cannot offer due to the need for complete discretion. Oh well! Of course I would really appreciate any advice on making up for this disadvantage other than dangling more $$$ in front of them!

I am currently in a FC only mode right now and it is hard to nail these SBs down for just that (unless they are UTRs). Pgh, if you can't take them out a little bit and pretend that they are "real Princesses " which they think they are and are not hookers you are going to have an uphill battle. All the successful ass men are able to meet their girls out and about, pick them up, and deliver them to the FC. Just accept that you are going to have to work harder, and will have a lower success rate. I have been in both scenarios and I like the dating one better.

More money ups your success rate. You just have to find that sweet spot that works in your hood .

[DirtyDeeds38]

Yeah, you made some good points, too. His friend seems to be searching for a hail-mary play that will bail him out quicker. Would be great if it does work, but the risk is off the charts and there's a high probability of it going sideways. In actual hail-mary, what's the worst that can happen? The other team scores. In this hail-mary, the worst that can happen is a massive payout, years of torturous alimony, not to mention the loss of someone that he apparently wants to hold onto (despite boredom) etc.

Too much risk and too much opportunity to fail. "Quick and slick" plans tend to pop into our minds under stress and under feeling of desperation. We want to get rid of the problem fast. This is why I urge patience. Mitigate the internal stress first, once that's under control THEN evaluate possible options. The options picked will be much smarter when selected with a cool head.

There has been some really good advise here. Especially about finding something on her etc. But I know this girl and have been around her with my current SB double dating etc. Plus the details my friend gives me. She is a submissive type girl, but not for fun reasons, it's how she is wired. She also has very few friends, as she has those hangup issues we so often see with younger women. She is not crazy, as in off the chart, but she struggles with stuff and can become quite unstable and stew and dwell on things forever. This is the type that will not just disappear and go away to the next boyfriend. She is convinced my friend is her soul mate and will literally stop at nothing to have him. He has already tried to explain calmly the age thing, the sexual compatibility (this girl can have sex all day, every day and not tire, he's in his late 40's) she has seen and done it all sexually and for whatever reason, she has latched her claws into my friend, who is not a bad guy, not bad looking, fairly fit and fun, but there is no way he will keep up a life with this girl.

As for the leverage thing, this girl is in school and is a fulltime medical student. As you know, anyone working in the medical field has to maintain high standards with regard to criminal records etc. In their initial contact, when they set the arrangement up, there were dollar amounts indicated, for basically specific acts. I. E almost, "we meet and have sex and I give you X amount of money" he has those emails, and if she goes ugly, he is thinking to calmly tell her, he will turn over those emails to LE. Also, she has mentioned smoking weed before a few times. My friend does not, but he was thinking to get her to smoke and than hangover her head, he will report her to her program and they will test her and out the door goes all that hard work, years of school etc. At first I thought this tactic was aggressive and mean, but my buddy has paid her all along, they met as a SB arrangement and my buddy has built his assets over a lifetime, so I think it's a fair trade off.

Any thoughts on this?

[JZLizard]

OK -- so Jeeze and I were typing our replies at the same time -- we are on the same page!!

Yeah, you made some good points, too. His friend seems to be searching for a hail-mary play that will bail him out quicker. Would be great if it does work, but the risk is off the charts and there's a high probability of it going sideways. In actual hail-mary, what's the worst that can happen? The other team scores. In this hail-mary, the worst that can happen is a massive payout, years of torturous alimony, not to mention the loss of someone that he apparently wants to hold onto (despite boredom) etc.

Too much risk and too much opportunity to fail. "Quick and slick" plans tend to pop into our minds under stress and under feeling of desperation. We want to get rid of the problem fast. This is why I urge patience. Mitigate the internal stress first, once that's under control THEN evaluate possible options. The options picked will be much smarter when selected with a cool head.

[Member #5055]

OK -- so Jeeze and I were typing our replies at the same time -- we are on the same page!!

Just my opinion -- that plan sounds like one of those that works well in a 1980's comedy movie but in real life probably will cause more harm than good. I could write a book on the reasons why, but basically it is too complicated and dependent on factors that will be beyond his control, specifically timing of everything: timing of his wife's visit to mom, timing of the friends availability, timing of his "blow up" move and praying that it has exactly the desired effect at exactly the right time. The timing of things is hard to control.

Let me put forth just one of at least a dozen different scenarios that come to mind. His wife goes out of town, he has the friend lined up, then he does whatever he plans to do to piss off the SB and get her to come knocking. But, instead of the immediate response he predicted, the SB decides to sit back, and let her emotions fester and build, until her next big PMS event which happens many weeks later. Or for whatever reason she just does not react immediately, waiting enough time for the wife to come back. So your friend sitting there losing sleep wondering when the bomb is going to go off -- most likely after his wife is back.

A second possibility -- his wife has a detective watching him while she's out of town. The SB never shows up, but he gets nailed for bringing the hot female friend into his house. Maybe no detective, maybe the neighbors rat him out to his wife when she gets back. Not to mention, women can literally SMELL when another woman has been inside their house, days or weeks later even.

I could go on an on. It's just too complex and full of assumptions and risks.

A difficult situation requires a simple, and foolproof plan that does not assume people will be in the right place at the right time.

[Member #5055]

Jez advice is sound -- but your plan is somewhat one of charge the Alamo approach -- if it works. Great, but if not he is done for.

Once the can of worms is open. Even if he gets a stand in wife. She is now a spurned woman, and we all know how much fury has a woman scorned.

Jez approach is a slower draw down -- making it more a failing relationship, a long slow approach.

Always look to the flip side. What if the SB decides to keep coming back with some delusional plan to get him back as they are "meant to be together".

I think I prefer Jez's approach!

P.S. this also validates my approach of ONLY playing in the bowl when on business out of town and often out of state -- if you have this luxury !

I'll respond more later. But for now great advise from all. Jez, you're advise is very sound and we think we have a plan. First we need to remember she might have a nose for the wife, but she does not have absolute confirmation. His plan based on my advise, while not full proof if this: his wife wants to go visit her mother across the country. He knows a few hot female friends who for money will basically do anything. He's going to send his wife to visit her mother and let one of his fenale friends step in at his house. He will then go blow it up with her as he is certain she would then come a knockin. When she does, fake fill in, live in girlfriend answers and SB turned girlfriend can get it out of her system. Only fail proof is there is no guarantee she won't come back two weeks later, but that's unlikely. It's a risk, nothing here is fullproof. The girlfriend (SB) and him are truly crazy for each other. That's the sad part. This girl he's mixed up with, well could happen to a lot of us. She's beautiful, high arc drive, kinky yet sweet and loyal etc, but she is as clingy and needy as they come. Very insecure.

[JZLizard]

I'll respond more later. But for now great advise from all. Jez, you're advise is very sound and we think we have a plan. First we need to remember she might have a nose for the wife, but she does not have absolute confirmation. His plan based on my advise, while not full proof if this: his wife wants to go visit her mother across the country. He knows a few hot female friends who for money will basically do anything. He's going to send his wife to visit her mother and let one of his fenale friends step in at his house. He will then go blow it up with her as he is certain she would then come a knockin. When she does, fake fill in, live in girlfriend answers and SB turned girlfriend can get it out of her system. Only fail proof is there is no guarantee she won't come back two weeks later, but that's unlikely. It's a risk, nothing here is fullproof. The girlfriend (SB) and him are truly crazy for each other. That's the sad part. This girl he's mixed up with, well could happen to a lot of us. She's beautiful, high arc drive, kinky yet sweet and loyal etc, but she is as clingy and needy as they come. Very insecure.

Just my opinion -- that plan sounds like one of those that works well in a 1980's comedy movie but in real life probably will cause more harm than good. I could write a book on the reasons why, but basically it is too complicated and dependent on factors that will be beyond his control, specifically timing of everything: timing of his wife's visit to mom, timing of the friends availability, timing of his "blow up" move and praying that it has exactly the desired effect at exactly the right time. The timing of things is hard to control.

Let me put forth just one of at least a dozen different scenarios that come to mind. His wife goes out of town, he has the friend lined up, then he does whatever he plans to do to piss off the SB and get her to come knocking. But, instead of the immediate response he predicted, the SB decides to sit back, and let her emotions fester and build, until her next big PMS event which happens many weeks later. Or for whatever reason she just does not react immediately, waiting enough time for the wife to come back. So your friend sitting there losing sleep wondering when the bomb is going to go off -- most likely after his wife is back.

A second possibility -- his wife has a detective watching him while she's out of town. The SB never shows up, but he gets nailed for bringing the hot female friend into his house. Maybe no detective, maybe the neighbors rat him out to his wife when she gets back. Not to mention, women can literally SMELL when another woman has been inside their house, days or weeks later even.

I could go on an on. It's just too complex and full of assumptions and risks.

A difficult situation requires a simple, and foolproof plan that does not assume people will be in the right place at the right time.

[HollywoodGuy]

I got flaked on by the girl in the flag pic. Then she called back and wanted to hookup later tonite. By then it was too late as I had already called my ATF to fill in at the last minute. I just told her sorry and lets spend the day together another time. She really seems to want a BF relationship. The panty shot girl is the one I had the hot car date with. I am going to try to see both of them over the weekend. The panty girl is as horny as she is tiny. The flag girl might take a little work but she claims to be hot for the right guy. We'll see.

I love 19 year olds.

Working on a few others as well. I am dedicated to finding a couple of new ones. My ATF (god love her) has really raised the bar and my game. Our sex just keeps getting better. And its been over 30 dates now.

[DirtyDeeds38]

Well this is the kind of thing I've written about in the past and occasionally offered advice on how to avoid.

Your friend first needs to take a deep breath and realize that digging himself out of this one will take patience. He should focus on managing his own stress level, because if he panics then mistakes will be made, and it may take him weeks (at least, probably months) to properly diffuse this one, so he's going to need a cool head. Having her agreement not to show up at his house is not enough. It still puts her in the drivers seat and him at the disadvantage. My believe that spending all your efforts defending your own disadvantage is a losing strategy. In a situation like this, you need to defend your own disadvantage enough to avoid the primary threat (visit to the wife) while simultaneously looking for her weakness. Almost everyone has something that could be used against them in some way -- he should look for this so that he has that card in his hand. The idea is to not intend to exploit the disadvantage directly, but to have it looming in order to remove her motives for exploiting his weakness. Finding that critical flaw could take time. If nothing else he may need to spend some time concentrating and thinking about it based on things he already knows about her. There's almost certainly something she would never want him to do. He needs to identify that.

Once that card is in hand, he should probably just try to use the power of time. Let whatever flame is burning the SB dwindle out slowly and uneventfully. For example, continue to see her, but start intentionally being a dead fish in bed. He should start complaining uncharacteristically about random shit to her, giving her sob stories, finding ways of making himself less attractive or desirable to her. Don't shower before seeing her. Complain about financial problems and how his world is crashing down. Mention that he went handgun shopping recently because his work is stressing him to the point that he feels like doing himself in (not suggesting he actually buy a gun, just say he did). Inject a little fear factor into the whole equation. Just slowly over time make himself look like he's not the prince charming she thought he was at first.

Sometimes, even if they have the option to confront the wife, they don't simply because nobody ever really WANTS to do that (at least not most people). However, having it as a tool in the toolbox is a powerful feeling, especially for a manipulative female to have. So he should not look at it as something imminent, but at the same time he should not do anything that invokes more drama, because when people snap they often do things that even they don't want to do.

Never under any circumstances should he cave to stress and preemptively inform his wife about it all. Some find that to be a tempting option, but it is the worst possible option. His situation is fully salvageable and with careful handling she'll never meet his wife. It's just that getting to that point might be many miserable months for him.

And IMO after its over he should make up his mind if he wants to be married or be single, and get a divorce before he enters the bowl again. Some dudes are just born to think with their other head, and no amount of coaching can prevent them from doing something stupid. Falling for her was not wise, but being married and renting a pad for her, much less leaving some of his own mail there, was just well beyond stupid. Sorry but they have to be called as I see them. Sugar coating an issue like this helps no one.

I'll respond more later. But for now great advise from all. Jez, you're advise is very sound and we think we have a plan. First we need to remember she might have a nose for the wife, but she does not have absolute confirmation. His plan based on my advise, while not full proof if this: his wife wants to go visit her mother across the country. He knows a few hot female friends who for money will basically do anything. He's going to send his wife to visit her mother and let one of his fenale friends step in at his house. He will then go blow it up with her as he is certain she would then come a knockin. When she does, fake fill in, live in girlfriend answers and SB turned girlfriend can get it out of her system. Only fail proof is there is no guarantee she won't come back two weeks later, but that's unlikely. It's a risk, nothing here is fullproof. The girlfriend (SB) and him are truly crazy for each other. That's the sad part. This girl he's mixed up with, well could happen to a lot of us. She's beautiful, high arc drive, kinky yet sweet and loyal etc, but she is as clingy and needy as they come. Very insecure.

[JZLizard]

I was thinking how can your friend convince the girl that SHE doesn't want anything to do with him. Here's another crazy idea: How about telling her that he's been having some burning sensation while peeing, went to the doctor and got a checkup showing he's got _ std and that she should get tested as well. He'd need to do some research to know what would be a good choice. Maybe not go nuclear with hiv, but not some some simple sti that can be easily treated with penicillin.

Doesn't seem like it could hurt. Telling her he tested positive for genital herpes is not exactly going to make her yearn for him even more or anything.

[JZLizard]

I am looking for perhaps some impossible advise to give my friend before his life ends, as he knows it.

As most of you know, I have no SO, but my buddy, does. Wife of 23 years, bored as fuck in his marriage, always complaining, etc. So over drinks about five months back, I reluctantly told him of my new found hobby that I have all but now perfected. He was beyond intrigued and like I was, instantly addicted to the idea. He wanted to model my blueprint so to speak, so he rented a pad, furnished it etc; etc.

He played the game the first month well and as advised, not falling for any of the girls, then he fell hard for one. A petite little spinner, who like a few of mine, extrme high sex drive, quiet and polite, true college girl, a bit of a loner, seeks reassurance and has some deep seeded mental issues she hid quiet well. I warned him over and over as I had, "been there done that. ".

He dated this girl and made long term plans with her. She wanted marriage and my buddy actually was considering it. But ultimately, he knew he would never leave the comfort of his wife and life. She got clingy, jealous of everything and poseesive of him and his time and as a consequence my friend got sloppy. He left mail at the pad he rented for her and she found it with his real address, etc. She went on a fishing expedition and while she does not know he's married, she knows where he lives. For some reason of fate, she waited to confront him and did not just show up at his front door to meet his wife.

Long story short, he somehow pacified her, and she agreed for the time, not to show up at his house. He fed her a, "made for movie" excuse, but he knows once he can't see her, pacify her, or accommodate her, she will likely run to his home. The girl does not let shit go and recycles everything in her mind. I'm sure some of you more seasoned veterans get the type of girl she is. She will ruin him and everything he knows, if she shows up. She is not the type of girl who he can tell her and offer to buy her off. He really does love this girl, but come on, she's some 25 years younger and there is no future.

Anyone with any very creative ideas here on how to handle this? I feel responsible for having brought him into this. Confessing to either his wife or the girl, is not going to be an option. He has to end it peacefully and prevent her curiosity from showing up at his front door.This girl has made my buddy her fucking life. She is all in with him. One of his ideas was to just end it and make his wife believe he got caught up with some very bad people he screwed over and they threatened to tell her he was having an affair, so when this little girl shows up, she might slightly accept it. I told him his wife is smarter than that and the two of them probably would end up having a chat. Personally, I think my buddy is totally fucked. I don't think this one goes away even with a envelop full of large bills, she will want revenge.

Any far reaching, creative advise would be greatly appreciated.

Well this is the kind of thing I've written about in the past and occasionally offered advice on how to avoid.

Your friend first needs to take a deep breath and realize that digging himself out of this one will take patience. He should focus on managing his own stress level, because if he panics then mistakes will be made, and it may take him weeks (at least, probably months) to properly diffuse this one, so he's going to need a cool head. Having her agreement not to show up at his house is not enough. It still puts her in the drivers seat and him at the disadvantage. My believe that spending all your efforts defending your own disadvantage is a losing strategy. In a situation like this, you need to defend your own disadvantage enough to avoid the primary threat (visit to the wife) while simultaneously looking for her weakness. Almost everyone has something that could be used against them in some way -- he should look for this so that he has that card in his hand. The idea is to not intend to exploit the disadvantage directly, but to have it looming in order to remove her motives for exploiting his weakness. Finding that critical flaw could take time. If nothing else he may need to spend some time concentrating and thinking about it based on things he already knows about her. There's almost certainly something she would never want him to do. He needs to identify that.

Once that card is in hand, he should probably just try to use the power of time. Let whatever flame is burning the SB dwindle out slowly and uneventfully. For example, continue to see her, but start intentionally being a dead fish in bed. He should start complaining uncharacteristically about random shit to her, giving her sob stories, finding ways of making himself less attractive or desirable to her. Don't shower before seeing her. Complain about financial problems and how his world is crashing down. Mention that he went handgun shopping recently because his work is stressing him to the point that he feels like doing himself in (not suggesting he actually buy a gun, just say he did). Inject a little fear factor into the whole equation. Just slowly over time make himself look like he's not the prince charming she thought he was at first.

Sometimes, even if they have the option to confront the wife, they don't simply because nobody ever really WANTS to do that (at least not most people). However, having it as a tool in the toolbox is a powerful feeling, especially for a manipulative female to have. So he should not look at it as something imminent, but at the same time he should not do anything that invokes more drama, because when people snap they often do things that even they don't want to do.

Never under any circumstances should he cave to stress and preemptively inform his wife about it all. Some find that to be a tempting option, but it is the worst possible option. His situation is fully salvageable and with careful handling she'll never meet his wife. It's just that getting to that point might be many miserable months for him.

And IMO after its over he should make up his mind if he wants to be married or be single, and get a divorce before he enters the bowl again. Some dudes are just born to think with their other head, and no amount of coaching can prevent them from doing something stupid. Falling for her was not wise, but being married and renting a pad for her, much less leaving some of his own mail there, was just well beyond stupid. Sorry but they have to be called as I see them. Sugar coating an issue like this helps no one.

[Rouleur]

Your friend is hoping for no accountability for his actions? Others will have creative ideas that will be more user friendly than mine. However, after just surviving a divorce after 20 years of marriage that ultimately ended due to similar issues, I say he should tell his Wife about the girl. Will it end their marriage? It might. But from what you shared there was some decay there to begin with. On the other hand, the marriage might survive it. Other marriages do. Whatever the outcome I wish your Friend all the best as I've been there done that.

One of the reasons I suggested going to the Wife instead of the SB is because, if he wants the marriage to survive, he may have a better chance by "confessing" rather than getting caught or ratted on. Tell the SB, you still have no real assurance the problem might resurface in the future. Tell the Wife, and now act 1 of this clusterFk ends and act 2 begins. Also you take away any ammunition the SB has to grasp on to. Talking to an Atty first is a great idea no matter what he decides.

[HollywoodGuy]

These girls really need to stop posting their whole life on IG and twitter. LOL.

[Dolato]

Any far reaching, creative advise would be greatly appreciated.

I was thinking how can your friend convince the girl that SHE doesn't want anything to do with him. Here's another crazy idea: How about telling her that he's been having some burning sensation while peeing, went to the doctor and got a checkup showing he's got _ std and that she should get tested as well. He'd need to do some research to know what would be a good choice. Maybe not go nuclear with hiv, but not some some simple sti that can be easily treated with penicillin.

[Member #5055]

As the subject says it all -- we have to weigh the options.

Either way. This is a no brainer -- get a GOOD divource attourney -- the best. Before she gets them and they cannot serve you.

OK -- so covered back door.

OK. So BEFORE opening up to the wife (with all the thermo-nuclear options that that will open) - he may as well at least try the same with the SB.

There is NO loss on attempting to break it up forcefully but with tact and cunning.

E. g. I really see no future for us with the age differance.

I understand your feelings -- but it takes two to feel the same before it can work.

Look -- I am really sorry -- and am prepared to try to make it so that you are not financially impacted my my decision to end it -- so here is $$$ etc. (hard to do, and only comes once she is in acceptance that it is over and you are tryin to wrap things up).

-- plus any other ideas -- guys -- add to this list!

THEN -- IF it works -- you have to go silent and deep -- I mean NO futher contact.

-- your friend cannot even SEE any further communications from her.

-- if in any way he can change his phone # - do it.

-- block her from any E-mail etc she knows -- kil the accounts after deleting EVERYTHING from them etc etc (I know a judge can get he backups -- but make it HARD).

-- basically disappear of the face of the earth.

IF she does turn up at the door -- have a WRITTEN letter ready and pre-dated to give to the wife -- make it clear you fell badly -- and tried to get out. That may be the only option to stop the nuclear back-lash! The fact that by himself he TRIED to stop it and come back to his wife he loves.

Feeling for him.

GW.

I am looking for perhaps some impossible advise to give my friend before his life ends, as he knows it.

As most of you know, I have no SO, but my buddy, does. Wife of 23 years, bored as fuck in his marriage, always complaining, etc. So over drinks about five months back, I reluctantly told him of my new found hobby that I have all but now perfected. He was beyond intrigued and like I was, instantly addicted to the idea. He wanted to model my blueprint so to speak, so he rented a pad, furnished it etc; etc.

He played the game the first month well and as advised, not falling for any of the girls, then he fell hard for one. A petite little spinner, who like a few of mine, extrme high sex drive, quiet and polite, true college girl, a bit of a loner, seeks reassurance and has some deep seeded mental issues she hid quiet well. I warned him over and over as I had, "been there done that. ".

He dated this girl and made long term plans with her. She wanted marriage and my buddy actually was considering it. But ultimately, he knew he would never leave the comfort of his wife and life. She got clingy, jealous of everything and poseesive of him and his time and as a consequence my friend got sloppy. He left mail at the pad he rented for her and she found it with his real address, etc. She went on a fishing expedition and while she does not know he's married, she knows where he lives. For some reason of fate, she waited to confront him and did not just show up at his front door to meet his wife.

Long story short, he somehow pacified her, and she agreed for the time, not to show up at his house. He fed her a, "made for movie" excuse, but he knows once he can't see her, pacify her, or accommodate her, she will likely run to his home. The girl does not let shit go and recycles everything in her mind. I'm sure some of you more seasoned veterans get the type of girl she is. She will ruin him and everything he knows, if she shows up. She is not the type of girl who he can tell her and offer to buy her off. He really does love this girl, but come on, she's some 25 years younger and there is no future.

Anyone with any very creative ideas here on how to handle this? I feel responsible for having brought him into this. Confessing to either his wife or the girl, is not going to be an option. He has to end it peacefully and prevent her curiosity from showing up at his front door.This girl has made my buddy her fucking life. She is all in with him. One of his ideas was to just end it and make his wife believe he got caught up with some very bad people he screwed over and they threatened to tell her he was having an affair, so when this little girl shows up, she might slightly accept it. I told him his wife is smarter than that and the two of them probably would end up having a chat. Personally, I think my buddy is totally fucked. I don't think this one goes away even with a envelop full of large bills, she will want revenge.

Any far reaching, creative advise would be greatly appreciated.

[JZLizard]

All of you who are able to snare these lovely lasses, do you treat any of them like girl friends even occasionally I. E. Take them out for dinner, dancing etc which would mean that you do not have a SO to worry about.

That is one thing that I cannot offer due to the need for complete discretion. Oh well! Of course I would really appreciate any advice on making up for this disadvantage other than dangling more $$$ in front of them!

Not a stud here, just someone with a lot of experience with women. Yes I always treat them like any other date, and for whatever reason in the civy dating world I have always treated my date the same whether I was eyeballing her for long-term material or if I was just in it for a one night stand. It's not something I do intentionally, just what comes naturally I guess. I do have an SO to worry about but I never date SBs anywhere near my home, only during travel.