"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[HollywoodGuy]

People say oh you must look like Brad Pitt. Actually more like the character Munch on Law and Order SVU. Oh you must have a luxurious home. More like a small bachelor pad, but it is in the hollywood hills. Oh you must have an awesome ride. Yeah it is if you like classic 10 year old bmw's. You must dress for success. I have worn jeans and t-shirts my entire life unless I am at work in which case I am wearing pajamas or running shorts.

Its way more about honesty and being a little self deprecating. I don't brag or boast and avoid any topic or pics relating to how big my penis is (although I have no trouble talking about how I want it pleasured). LOL. We may want girls that are newbies to the game, but they want the opposite (unless they are gold diggers). So fake it till you make it.

I have read a lot on this thread about negotiating and how to do this undercover but very little of the mindset or vibe needed to succeed. So just be yourself. I mean what else can you really do? And if yourself is an overweight geek with bad table manners or you are just an asshole. Then by all means start shopping at neimans and buy a new mercedes. And take girls to expensive dinners, overpriced spas and 5 star hotels. Unless you just love treating yourself because you can afford it. And when I can I will.

[PghGuy2005]

http://nymag.com/thecut/2013/04/how-...ike-i-did.html

[HollywoodGuy]

You must be irresistible in your profile! Plus you are on the left coast things must be different there than in the South East.

Girls do resist. I just try to target the ones that won't. I have a type. I tell them they are my type. I back that up with my obvious attraction to them when they are my type. Stick with your type. An old saying. Or maybe I made it up. There is no one more attractive than someone that's genuinely attracted to you.

And that works both ways. My little girl "Sugar" who is not my type physically (although she is my type in other ways) is just so enamored with me that I can't stop seeing her.

Following up on the M&G from yesterday, I am going to see her maybe after school tomorrow as it didn't work out today. I told her we could move to a paid date and she is smart enough to know what that means. She is very very tight and can take a pounding. So I am gonna see my ATF tonite (to relieve some built up stress) as I want to get the most out of her tomorrow.

An unusual response from a solid 7+ after offering her a $ a date. "I'm not only in it for the $, that's crazy, I'll take 40 to 70."

Another response to the steps letters. "Hey there, and yes I understand exactly where you are coming from because I totally agree with you. It is very important that a real connection is established in order for anything to work that's why taking it step by step is ideal to me. Im glad that we are both on the same page. "

Another response to meet for $ from a somewhat disheartened girl. "I haven't actually been seeing guys from SA in a while because of how many just wanted to take advantage of me".

Here is another. "That makes 100% sense. I'm excited to get to meet you, when were you thinking we can connect?"

But you get the idea. The steps do work.

[PghGuy2005]

I have to disagree. But that's me. I have been literally flooded with girls since I put up my SA post 30 days ago. The main difference I see is that there are less pros and UTRs and way more curious normal girls looking for fun and adventuture. My 2 cents. BTW. I am more on a budget than ever due to work issues.

You must be irresistible in your profile! Plus you are on the left coast things must be different there than in the South East.

[HollywoodGuy]

I really need to get out more. Today I was determined to do a M&G. So I picked the easiest one I could find. A girl that only lives 2 miles away from me and has her own car. I told her to meet me in the local CVS parking lot where we could have a "no sex, no money" date and talk in the car and see if there was any connection. She said she was totally "clear" on that, and no problem.

She showed up right on time and parked 2 cars down from me. She gets out of the car and as my mom used to say, she was as cute as a button. 19, 5'4" and an even 100 lbs. A white girl with pink and blond hair wearing a tiny black mini skirt, black knee socks and a motorcycle jacket. A typical hipster looking (minus the tattoos) neighborhood girl. Very delicate features, small face and hands.

So she gets into my car and I start talking. She really had so little to say that I asked twice if she just wanted to end the meet. She said she was fine and just didn't talk much. The little she did have to say was very frank and direct and she seemed more mature than her years. So finally after an hour I just asked her "do you think I"m cute"? She kinda smiled and said yes. So I started to kiss her. This led to 75 minutes of me non-stop finger banging her hard and fast. I did go down on her a little but it was a little tough due to the logistics. I had her skirt up and bra down and her cute little titties out. I just pulled her panties to the side as she still had her shoes on. She came a few times, but it was only detectable on a physical level (as she bucked her cute little ass in the air) all the time being very very quiet except for some light moaning.

It was pouring rain the whole time, so no fear of anyone seeing what was going on (even though it was still in the afternoon) and very romantic. We kissed the whole time non stop, except a few times I pulled back to admire her perfect little body while still fingering her and looking her straight in the eyes. I got her to say a few sexy daddy/baby things and made her blush, but she liked it. A lot I guess.

She said she would see me after school tomorrow. She was about a 7/9/8/8 so far. Amount spent $0. Any future dates will be $ a date. Her parents are more than well off and she said she just didn't really need much to be happy.

[HollywoodGuy]

OK I have a constraint that many of you don't namely I have to do this on the sly due to the missus which means it had to be on weekday afternoons because I am alone only when I am at work. So with HWG's 1-2-3 method some of the non-responders could not accept this constraint since they wanted to go out and have a good time.

Among the responders some did not care about a per meeting arrangement at the beginning because they are not prostitutes! And the rest wanted too much moolah which was $300 or more per date.

Some of the responses to msg #3 were clear that they will be with anyone for the right amount and this was true with both white and AA of any age. Bottom line is they were only interested in the $ and some wanted more like travel to exotic destinations, participate in exciting (and expensive) activities etc.

From the uniformity of the expectations I can only conclude that SBs on SA are OK financially and are doing this just to enhance their income / lifestyle. I do not think there are many guys in this part of the country who can sustain this level of spending on SBs.

So SA is not for SDs on a budget! I have to find other ways of locating those inexpensive SBs.

I have to disagree. But that's me. I have been literally flooded with girls since I put up my SA post 30 days ago. The main difference I see is that there are less pros and UTRs and way more curious normal girls looking for fun and adventuture. My 2 cents. BTW. I am more on a budget than ever due to work issues.

[Mlboriole]

OK I have a constraint that many of you don't namely I have to do this on the sly due to the missus which means it had to be on weekday afternoons because I am alone only when I am at work. So with HWG's 1-2-3 method some of the non-responders could not accept this constraint since they wanted to go out and have a good time.

Among the responders some did not care about a per meeting arrangement at the beginning because they are not prostitutes! And the rest wanted too much moolah which was $300 or more per date.

Some of the responses to msg #3 were clear that they will be with anyone for the right amount and this was true with both white and AA of any age. Bottom line is they were only interested in the $ and some wanted more like travel to exotic destinations, participate in exciting (and expensive) activities etc.

From the uniformity of the expectations I can only conclude that SBs on SA are OK financially and are doing this just to enhance their income / lifestyle. I do not think there are many guys in this part of the country who can sustain this level of spending on SBs.

So SA is not for SDs on a budget! I have to find other ways of locating those inexpensive SBs.

I have found SA to be the best for contacts but concur for the most part with your assessment. I am also on SD Today but the numbers are not there as with other free sites. I have met a couple from that site and meet for less than 200/ visit. Again, the quantity and quality is not on par with SA. I look at CL but too many spammers there but occasionally find a needle in a haystack. I have my best success with having fellow forum members recommending a good utr.

[PghGuy2005]

OK I have a constraint that many of you don't namely I have to do this on the sly due to the missus which means it had to be on weekday afternoons because I am alone only when I am at work. So with HWG's 1-2-3 method some of the non-responders could not accept this constraint since they wanted to go out and have a good time.

Among the responders some did not care about a per meeting arrangement at the beginning because they are not prostitutes! And the rest wanted too much moolah which was $300 or more per date.

Some of the responses to msg #3 were clear that they will be with anyone for the right amount and this was true with both white and AA of any age. Bottom line is they were only interested in the $ and some wanted more like travel to exotic destinations, participate in exciting (and expensive) activities etc.

From the uniformity of the expectations I can only conclude that SBs on SA are OK financially and are doing this just to enhance their income / lifestyle. I do not think there are many guys in this part of the country who can sustain this level of spending on SBs.

So SA is not for SDs on a budget! I have to find other ways of locating those inexpensive SBs.

[HollywoodGuy]

So like clockwork she cancelled. This was the first SB that actually had me at the bank pulling out a couple of grand. I wonder if I told he I have her monthly allowance in cash would have changed the outcome. It's funny in retrospect. After getting the cancellation I'm depressed, sitting in my Executive suite with $100 bills in hand.

This depression ended when I set up a quick M&G. Probably the fastest M&G ever. I swear this girl came to my lobby in 30 minutes. A cool date and will probably go to FC. It did get me thinking. I've been on SA for about two months now and sadly I'm certain I've over spent. I paid no sugar, but in terms of M&G's I'd say $3-3. 5 K. Probably got some form of action from 6-8 SBs, mostly BJs. Was the action worth it? I don't know. It has been a huge stress relief and better than a therapist. The rejection from the 10/10 SB was probably the lowest point. I think I'm done for now. I'm mid 30's, in good shape and I can normally pick up girls with no issues. This was a good break from the norm.

-The Bo Jackson of the Bowl.

You need to totally start over. Analyse what you did right and what you did wrong. Start with one girl at a time. For the money you are spending demand a set amount for a full 2-3 hour FC visit. Limit your M&G to an inexpensive lunch or coffee date. Forget the 9's and 10's for now. Start with a 7/8 that has an awesome personality and that shows an obvious willingness to please you in the FC. And only pay per FC visit. But don't quit.

[IluvSmellyFish]

Tough night brother. Do you play poker? If so, then you already know a few things:

1. Don't let the lows get you too low, and don't let the highs get you too high. 2. Play the antes and let the game come to you. In other words, its best to wait for the right cards before making your play. Don't book the hotel or set up an expensive date until you've got a pot that has committed to the FC. 3. The longer you play the game and sit at the table, the better you will become at the game. And if you're careful with your blinds, the worst you'll lose is nominal funds but mainly your time. Although depending on your career and personal life, time may ne more precious than money.

Too bad the bowl doesn't come with a comp card for time spent as a player. A free buffet every now and then would be a nice touch.

As for the 10/10 pot that stood you up, no worries. The funds you lost on one hotel is a small price to pay for the lesson you learned. Just don't repeat the same mistake. Besides, within three weeks there will be four new 10/10 pots to replace her. Besides, if you pulled out as much money from the atm as you said you did, them you should have enough allowance for all four of them - assuming of course your playground is in dc - which I am assuming based on your screen name.

Based on my experience in that area, the allowance you would've given that pot for one date would've made four babies quite happy for the entire month...

So like clockwork she cancelled. This was the first SB that actually had me at the bank pulling out a couple of grand. I wonder if I told he I have her monthly allowance in cash would have changed the outcome. It's funny in retrospect. After getting the cancellation I'm depressed, sitting in my Executive suite with $100 bills in hand

This depression ended when I set up a quick M&G. Probably the fastest M&G ever. I swear this girl came to my lobby in 30 minutes. A cool date and will probably go to FC. It did get me thinking. I've been on SA for about two months now and sadly I'm certain I've over spent. I paid no sugar, but in terms of M&G's I'd say $3-3. 5 K. Probably got some form of action from 6-8 SBs, mostly BJs. Was the action worth it? I don't know. It has been a huge stress relief and better than a therapist. The rejection from the 10/10 SB was probably the lowest point. I think I'm done for now. I'm mid 30's, in good shape and I can normally pick up girls with no issues. This was a good break from the norm.

-The Bo Jackson of the Bowl.

[HollywoodGuy]

Travel around the country, but I have new boss that is against travel so I have been staying put lately and concentrating on the SO.

I must say this is fabulous reading. While I'm located on the East coast. Used to spend a lot of time in LA and at KH8.

Keep up the good work Everyone!- and its fully appreciated. Hopefully, I will be able to apply some of these methods. Unfortunately I'm 50+ -so trying not to look too old out there.....

Normus Johnson.

Old = Gold. The older I get the easier it gets. Keep the faith.

[Normus Johnson]

Travel around the country, but I have new boss that is against travel so I have been staying put lately and concentrating on the SO.

I must say this is fabulous reading. While I'm located on the East coast. Used to spend a lot of time in LA and at KH8.

Keep up the good work Everyone!- and its fully appreciated. Hopefully, I will be able to apply some of these methods. Unfortunately I'm 50+ -so trying not to look too old out there.....

Normus Johnson.

[HoyaSvnFgr]

My own practice. I always only book last minute using a hotel app after I have confirmed FC trip plans with a trusted previously tested SB or directly after closing the deal with a pot who agrees to the trip while we are in person together.

It is also why, now that I have a rotation of trusted babies, I have been booking m&gs with pots in conjunction with FC trips with trusted babies.

My rationale, even if I get a great room at a crazy good rate, it is worthless without a trip to the FC. On the other hand, if you're out with a baby or a pot, and you're headed to the FC, you can still find a decent hotel deal with a phone app. Worst case scenario is that you book at a lower end hotel.

I personally have never been in a situation where a baby backs out if a FC trip after agreeing to it while you're on a date with her.

Also as a heads up, the bowl is jumping in my particular region of the mid Atlantic.

Happy hunting.

So like clockwork she cancelled. This was the first SB that actually had me at the bank pulling out a couple of grand. I wonder if I told he I have her monthly allowance in cash would have changed the outcome. It's funny in retrospect. After getting the cancellation I'm depressed, sitting in my Executive suite with $100 bills in hand.

This depression ended when I set up a quick M&G. Probably the fastest M&G ever. I swear this girl came to my lobby in 30 minutes. A cool date and will probably go to FC. It did get me thinking. I've been on SA for about two months now and sadly I'm certain I've over spent. I paid no sugar, but in terms of M&G's I'd say $3-3. 5 K. Probably got some form of action from 6-8 SBs, mostly BJs. Was the action worth it? I don't know. It has been a huge stress relief and better than a therapist. The rejection from the 10/10 SB was probably the lowest point. I think I'm done for now. I'm mid 30's, in good shape and I can normally pick up girls with no issues. This was a good break from the norm.

-The Bo Jackson of the Bowl.

[JZLizard]

JL. Great post.

Out of curiosity and for benchmark information, how do you define net monthly income? For example do you define it as after taxes, deductions for 401 k, retirement, health plan premiuims and flexible spending accounts?

Alternatively do you define net monthly income in the context of a small business owner who would have to account for business expenses before calculating a monthly or annual salary?

In the former context, 2-3 % of net monthly income (after taxes, and deductions assuming one is in the 39% tax bracket) would mean, by my rough math, that the SD should be pulling in an annual salary upwards of $200 k +.

In the latter context, taxes and deductions wouldn't be figured into the net monthly income and so it could make a big difference.

This of course assumes dating costs (inclusive of allowance, meals, trips, etc) of around $200-$300 per date.

For the younger fellahs out there who are considering this lifestyle, the difference in the benchmark that you might be proposing could be eyeopening.

The problem with hard definitions of net monthly income, or even absolute percentages of per-date budget is that there can be such variance in individual situations that they really need to be considered on a per case basis. For example, health plan premiums can be very different for a single guy vs. A married guy with family. One guy rents an apartment but puts 12% of his gross monthly into a 401 k, while another guy has a mortgage but puts 6% of his gross into 401 k and 6% toward early mortgage pay down (there is no general agreement among finance experts on whether early mortgage principal pay down with a guaranteed savings of maybe 4% mortgage interest is better than investing in mutual funds that average maybe 8% over the long run while paying the 4% mortgage interest, ultimately ending up with the same 4% return).

So, coming up with an exact definition of net monthly income is tricky, but for purposes of my 2-3% guideline, I think of it as the number on their paycheck at the end of the week or month (and in the case of business owners, the net salary they pay themselves out of company assets). In other words after taxes, insurance premiums, after 401 k contributions, and other "given" deductions that pretty much everyone will have (or should).

Now, the tricky part to this is 2-3% is that it begs the question "how many times per month? And that's somewhere I doubt anyone could accurately go, because most SDs have some sort of real limitation on how many times per month they can date that is not even defined by finance. There have been some folks here reporting success of lining up very cost-effective fucks almost every day of the month, but I don't think that's a typical SD scenario at all. If I were unattached and wanted to be an SD serial dater, I would probably try to keep my dating activities limited to 2-3 times per week, or more likely have an SB come stay with me for a weekend (perhaps even most weekends). When I'm single, I actually like to focus on work and other things in life during the week and looking forward to sport fucking on the weekend gives me something to look forward to. If I separated from my SO right now, I would probably not limit my dating to SBs but use regular dating to get as much free pussy as possible, and use SBs to keep me busy during the slow periods of that (civy dating can be less predictable sometimes and its always good to have something to fall back on).

So. Does an SD need to make $200 k+ a year? I don't think so. What an SD's cost is or should be just depends on how often he wants to date, what caliber of pussy he is going for, how good he is at his game.

I think as a general rule if an SD doesn't have a six figure salary (or pay themselves at least that much if self-employed), they aren't really qualified to be an SD, but $100 k a year doesn't go as far in some cities so even that guideline isn't rigid.

What I do think is that if a guy is in their 20's, and making something like $60 k a year, they are nuts if they spend money on SBs. There are cheaper options at that age and they are just forming habits at too young an age they are going to regret. On the other hand if someone is 70 and living on retirement income and they want to spend everything above and beyond what they need to survive on SBs simply because it's the only thing that makes life worth living, well I'd say that's their prerogative because at that age they are less concerned about forming habits than just living day to day and enjoying life as best they can.

[IluvSmellyFish]

JL. Great post.

Out of curiosity and for benchmark information, how do you define net monthly income? For example do you define it as after taxes, deductions for 401 k, retirement, health plan premiuims and flexible spending accounts?

Alternatively do you define net monthly income in the context of a small business owner who would have to account for business expenses before calculating a monthly or annual salary?

In the former context, 2-3 % of net monthly income (after taxes, and deductions assuming one is in the 39% tax bracket) would mean, by my rough math, that the SD should be pulling in an annual salary upwards of $200 k +.

In the latter context, taxes and deductions wouldn't be figured into the net monthly income and so it could make a big difference.

This of course assumes dating costs (inclusive of allowance, meals, trips, etc) of around $200-$300 per date.

For the younger fellahs out there who are considering this lifestyle, the difference in the benchmark that you might be proposing could be eyeopening.

Smellyfish: when I was still under 40, I had not even considered the SD scene yet, but what I did find was that the big 40 is right around the cutoff age for many for the bar scene, perhaps largely depending on genetics. At least if you're looking for 20 year olds. If you're 40 and live somewhere with a vibrant 30+ scene, then enjoy fucking the 30+ single moms, its some of the best pussy on the planet.

But as far as being 40+ in the bar scene, it limits where you can have success.

So, I did advise one guy here to learn to navigate the bar scene before going for SBs. I think he was in his mid 20's though? Yes absolutely at that age. He should be developing his game, because when he gets older the amount of pussy he gets on the SB scene and how much he pays for it will also be affected by how much game he has acquired along the way, and because practice makes perfect it helps to start as early as possible.

I encouraged him to try not only bars, but the amazing amount of online options -- match, tinder, god knows what the mobile hookup app of the day is (I don't even keep up any more). It's even better now than it was at my online-dating peak. Girls in their 20's have grown-up watching porn, they know what to do and have a completely different attitude toward casual sex compared to 20-30 years ago. These are still options for SDs to explore too, they just have to understand that potential SBs on match are much different than pots you meet on an SD site. You can only spot them by their age preference, and you have to approach them differently.

A general guideline is that if a cost of a single date (that results in a fuck) exceeds 2-3 percent of our NET monthly income, it's likely a bad idea financially (assuming a reasonable number of dates per month), so most guys straight out of college wouldn't be able to afford an ongoing SB. This works against them, because true SBs already know this -- they can sense them coming miles away.

Most of the true SBs on SD sites are there because they have genuine fuck-lust for older men in addition to the lifestyle upgrade, not just the allowance.