"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[JZLizard]

The one I've met advertised to be 40 but was closer to 50 and wanted $$ per hit! I nearly choked laughing.

Regardless of age, women are usually terrible at negotiating. They don't have the competitive streak men do (that might change as they get older and gain life skills, I'm not sure because I've never tried talking allowance amount with anyone over the age of 23).

When the subject is left alone, often they will be happy with whatever you give them simply because they were never required to negotiate. HOWEVER, if we ASK them how much they want, it's going to be a ridiculous amount. Why? A number of reasons really but some are that they generally don't have a clear understanding of the realistic value of money, they are basing the amounts off "upper end" fees they've heard about on TV. But also because we've put them through the possible pain of negotiation, something they know they are lousy at, so the get defensive and start high. Unfortunate, because unlike buying a used car, trying to discount the amount means that we have to figure out ways to gentle *DEVALUE THEM PERSONALLY* (think about that for a moment, it's different to say to someone "I feel your car is worth 60% of what you've asked" than it is to say "I feel YOU are worth less than what you've asked" Some of them take personal devaluation better than others -- if they seem thick skinned and negotiate their pussy readily, it's probably because they are a hardened pro. I think avoidance of talking money up front is one reason most of my M&Gs have worked out. The few times I asked them what they were looking for, it backfired on me as their expectations are never realistic. When I gift them after the fact, they always thank me for it, nobody has ever expressed disappointment.

I know some others report a very different experience by setting a maximum rate with a take it or leave it approach, and I can see how that works in certain markets with certain demographics, but at least for my "occasional" hobby I've found my own method of avoiding money talk, getting to the M&G and into the FC before the issue of money comes up works best.

[SlowMo]

Regarding your thoughts on cougars: I used to always think that once a cougar turned the corner (after mid-late thirties or so) they would look in the mirror and say to themselves "ok, I'm not as hot as I used to be, it's time to lower the standards". However, my experience with women has been that either they are generally not as smart as that, or let's put it more tactfully and say that their behavior is more hormone-driven than logical. In other words, they tend to become even more demanding, more bitchy, and less pleasant to be around the older they get.

The one I've met advertised to be 40 but was closer to 50 and wanted $$ per hit! I nearly choked laughing.

[HollywoodGuy]

Old girls: So I started screening for up to 40 yrs old thinking they are more desperate. Well so far they are the epitome of GPS AND less appealing t me, so back to the teenies.

Can't get one to save my life.

[JZLizard]

So JL, when is hunting season beginning for you this year? I remember the GF might not leave town? It's nice to live vicariously. I feel like I am doing that already. My public dating is nil and I am angling for an UTR that is low volume. So in my profile as to "I'm seeking" I just put no travel, dinner, or drinks, just you and me LOL. We'll see if I scare all of them away. I might try mixed / black. I usually screen for Cauc / Asian, but I have had several great times with the former. They might be easier and cheapr as Hollywood says. After all, I just want a FB to show up and Polish my knob without being the 12th for the day.

Re: POF. I established a profile and got caught in this testing BS that took AN HOUR! When I finally got to screening I hit the age thing too. So we have to put our age under 30 to see these 20 yr olds.

Old girls: So I started screening for up to 40 yrs old thinking they are more desperate. Well so far they are the epitome of GPS AND less appealing t me, so back to the teenies.

Unfortunately I never know for sure when I will get my next "mancation" from the GF, it depends on her schedule and there's nothing on the immediate horizon in the next few months at least. Sometimes an impromptu trip will arise, it's just hard to predict when. I usually get about a months notice which is usually ample time to make some SB contacts for a little travel play. I've considered creating some "needs for business related travel" for me that is independent of her schedule, but it's so much easier when she travels first because it distracts her from focusing on what I might be doing while she's gone.

Regarding your thoughts on cougars: I used to always think that once a cougar turned the corner (after mid-late thirties or so) they would look in the mirror and say to themselves "ok, I'm not as hot as I used to be, it's time to lower the standards". However, my experience with women has been that either they are generally not as smart as that, or let's put it more tactfully and say that their behavior is more hormone-driven than logical. In other words, they tend to become even more demanding, more bitchy, and less pleasant to be around the older they get. I'm not necessarily saying all females become worthless after 40 (for those of us with wives / girlfriends / mothers / daughters / etc.). I'm saying the kind of women who will advertise themselves on an SB site. Or, better yet it applies to regular civvy dating as well. If they are still single at age 40, there's a good chance they are just plain damaged goods. Sure, some of them end up divorced for reasons that aren't their own fault, but for the most part if they were really a woman worth keeping around, someone married them a long time ago and did just that.

Speaking of which, the other day I was watching Amy Fisher's live web cam. Yes, Joey Buttafuoco's Amy Fisher. She was sitting there on the bed, chubby and looking like a nasty mess, and she was bitching about how nobody would pay $2! She was going "what's wrong fellas, ya like to just show up and try to get a looks fer free do yas"? In a jersey accent. LOL It was the stereotypical hormonal rant, but she was chastising potential customers -- some of the worst salesmanship I've ever seen. I was just sitting there laughing, refraining from saying things like "come on Amy, calm down, nobody wants to get shot in the head here". But I took the high road and did not. She eventually logged off.

[Playa12]

As some may know I broke up with my sb gf about 4 months ago. I saw her today for the first time in a month. It's not really about the sugar anymore. Thats basically over. I spent about 55 dollars throughout the day. I will now refer to her lovingly as my "pillow princess". Because that's what she is. Part of why we had to break up.

The other part was her lack of endurance. But as a regular girl to see once or twice a month, she's cool, in love (and too pretty to ignore). And she is still exclusive to me except for maybe an occasional girl she has on the side and I am not even sure of that.

I think we may have found a way to have a successful afternoon date. Low drama, very loving, and it keeps us connected. Here she is today with no makeup and her hair undone. Almost time for walking dead and then afterward I am gonna drop by to see my new "tomboy princess" for a car date.

Fuck it, I'm moving to LA. LOL.

[HollywoodGuy]

I guess I was a bit woozy from my date with the "pillow princess". I accidentally took an ambien instead of the vitamin C I was gonna use to perk up for my date. Woke up 3 hours later and called to apologize for flaking. I'll try seeing her tomorrow.

[HollywoodGuy]

As some may know I broke up with my sb gf about 4 months ago. I saw her today for the first time in a month. It's not really about the sugar anymore. Thats basically over. I spent about 55 dollars throughout the day. I will now refer to her lovingly as my "pillow princess". Because that's what she is. Part of why we had to break up.

The other part was her lack of endurance. But as a regular girl to see once or twice a month, she's cool, in love (and too pretty to ignore). And she is still exclusive to me except for maybe an occasional girl she has on the side and I am not even sure of that.

I think we may have found a way to have a successful afternoon date. Low drama, very loving, and it keeps us connected. Here she is today with no makeup and her hair undone. Almost time for walking dead and then afterward I am gonna drop by to see my new "tomboy princess" for a car date.

[FotoGuy1970]

UPDATE on SA POT 2: She asked to postpone lunch date due to feeling under the weather and we decided to get together tomorrow and go straight to the FC. She is looking for 2-3 visits a week at $$ - $$$ per week or whatever I feel comfortable with. Never had such a hot SB with such low expectations. If she's really good in the FC I plan on giving her a bit more than she's expecting, to make sure she keeps cumming back to me.

SA POT 3: Almost right after I posted my previous report, I had an initial message to HCB get responded to. She's local, has never been a SB before, and has no idea what to expect, but she is definitely aware that she'll need to be spending FC time with me before I open my wallet. We decided on 1-2 visits per week at $. 5 per visit. Again, another young hottie with low expectations. This is very, very rare for this area.

[FredMoore]

So JL, when is hunting season beginning for you this year? I remember the GF might not leave town? It's nice to live vicariously. I feel like I am doing that already. My public dating is nil and I am angling for an UTR that is low volume. So in my profile as to "I'm seeking" I just put no travel, dinner, or drinks, just you and me LOL. We'll see if I scare all of them away. I might try mixed / black. I usually screen for Cauc / Asian, but I have had several great times with the former. They might be easier and cheapr as Hollywood says. After all, I just want a FB to show up and Polish my knob without being the 12th for the day.

Re: POF. I established a profile and got caught in this testing BS that took AN HOUR! When I finally got to screening I hit the age thing too. So we have to put our age under 30 to see these 20 yr olds.

Old girls: So I started screening for up to 40 yrs old thinking they are more desperate. Well so far they are the epitome of GPS AND less appealing t me, so back to the teenies.

[Dandy Don]

It's been years since I used POF, but to the best of my knowledge it does have "age matching" features that will typically make it challenging to contact girls if you are outside of the age range they've specified being interested in. Pretty much all the civy dating sites do this in one way or another, otherwise the young hot ones would get flooded with hits from guys outside their range, and that's not good for business because it frustrates them into avoiding the site. Some of them only limit your search results to women for which your profile meets their requirements, and some of them even block messages -- POF may be one of the latter, I simply don't remember.

One thing you can try to do is create a profile that takes 15 years or so off your age, then simply come out in your intro letter and explain what you're looking for. Do not expect a high level of response from this approach, in fact it's going to be a fraction of your response rate from SA and some might flat out tell you to fuck off. Don't get discouraged -- civy sites are very different from the SD sites. You might find girls on POF that subconsciously want to be an SB but have not really given it enough consideration yet. Your note propositioning her might get the mental juices flowing. She may not respond at all, but in a few weeks you may see her on one of the SD sites. So if nothing else it does help to recruit new SBs. So, even if it looks like you're not getting results, you may actually be benefiting by an increase in female membership on the SD sites in your area.

I found some good stuff on POF several years back -- I wasn't SB hunting, it was free pussy costing me only maybe dinner and drinks -- but it didn't come easy. Lots of requests sent out, many of whom never respond at all. All it takes is that one that rocks your world though.

I thought at first I would play it straight and see what happens but that isn't going so well so far. So probably in another week I will create a more fake profile and take that approach of saying I am younger than trying to explain. I am usually a good talker.

[FotoGuy1970]

After taking a few months leave of absence, I've jumped back into the sugar world. No success yet, but I have several nibbles I'm working on:

CL POT 1: Really nice girl next door type with just a few extra pounds in all the right places. Really interested in the whole SD / SB relationship, but it's been tough to arrange even so much as a M&G with her as she lives 90+ minutes away and still lives with parents. But her communication skills have been solid and she's been giving a GFE through texts so far and she has zero expectations as far as what I would provide to her. The only hurdles will be actually getting to see each other.

CL POT 2: Hot college girl who is financially strapped, so is looking for a SD to help her out. She's really hot, but she's 2 hours away. However, she is willing to meet halfway. We've discussed a possible M&G for next weekend. However, her communication skills are the worst and she admits that. Long, long breaks of silence between text messages, which I hate. Between the distance and the lack of communication, I'm not sure how this one will work out.

SA POT 1: Young hot, sexual blonde with big tits. She has a busy schedule, but we're trying to work it out. She indicated she may be good with skipping the M&G and just going to the FC, which I normally don't like to do. If she's as kinky and wild as she claims to be, she'll be a keeper.

SA POT 2: Had a M&G with this really cute young college girl last night. She liked to talk. She says that she's been in 2 arrangements before and both were mutually beneficial, but so far there hasn't been any discussion of sex, which is a bit of a red flag for me. I've heard the "I've been in mutually beneficial arrangements before!" line in the past, but when it came down to it, the girl was only interested in getting paid and giving nothing in return. I'm kinda worried that that may be the case here. It's been hard to get a bead on her: She seems awkward and uncomfortable and nervous, but I don't know if that was just first meeting nerves. We're supposed to have a lunch date today and "see where it goes", so I guess today will give me a better indication of what to expect from this one. Regardless, the wallet stays closed until we go to the FC.

I have a few other random POTs on SA and CL who have expressed interest, but so far the ones I discussed above are the best / most interesting ones. I will report more when I have more to report.

[JZLizard]

This is a great idea and I created a profile on POF. And sure enough, several girls from SA are on POF. But here's what I have been encountering. Every time I message them I get this automated message: So and So accepts messages only from certain users. Why not message one of your Matches instead? Return to your inbox.

A little research revealed that POF allows users to block messages based on various criteria, including age. I am in my mid-40's and of course I am messaging girls in their 20's. So far, I haven't been able to successfully message anyone under 30. I find it hard to believe that every single woman under 30 that I have message has ruled out older guys, especially if they have profile on SA. So I am led to believe that POF is doing this, but of course I could be wrong.

Anybody else experiencing this?

It's been years since I used POF, but to the best of my knowledge it does have "age matching" features that will typically make it challenging to contact girls if you are outside of the age range they've specified being interested in. Pretty much all the civy dating sites do this in one way or another, otherwise the young hot ones would get flooded with hits from guys outside their range, and that's not good for business because it frustrates them into avoiding the site. Some of them only limit your search results to women for which your profile meets their requirements, and some of them even block messages -- POF may be one of the latter, I simply don't remember.

One thing you can try to do is create a profile that takes 15 years or so off your age, then simply come out in your intro letter and explain what you're looking for. Do not expect a high level of response from this approach, in fact it's going to be a fraction of your response rate from SA and some might flat out tell you to fuck off. Don't get discouraged -- civy sites are very different from the SD sites. You might find girls on POF that subconsciously want to be an SB but have not really given it enough consideration yet. Your note propositioning her might get the mental juices flowing. She may not respond at all, but in a few weeks you may see her on one of the SD sites. So if nothing else it does help to recruit new SBs. So, even if it looks like you're not getting results, you may actually be benefiting by an increase in female membership on the SD sites in your area.

I found some good stuff on POF several years back -- I wasn't SB hunting, it was free pussy costing me only maybe dinner and drinks -- but it didn't come easy. Lots of requests sent out, many of whom never respond at all. All it takes is that one that rocks your world though.

[DogSun]

This is a great idea and I created a profile on POF. And sure enough, several girls from SA are on POF. But here's what I have been encountering. Every time I message them I get this automated message: So and So accepts messages only from certain users. Why not message one of your Matches instead? Return to your inbox.

A little research revealed that POF allows users to block messages based on various criteria, including age. I am in my mid-40's and of course I am messaging girls in their 20's. So far, I haven't been able to successfully message anyone under 30. I find it hard to believe that every single woman under 30 that I have message has ruled out older guys, especially if they have profile on SA. So I am led to believe that POF is doing this, but of course I could be wrong.

Anybody else experiencing this?

For her dating life, she probably wants someone younger, which is why she has the age restriction. Probably not going to be so picky when it comes to sugar. So the solution is simple. Create a new profile and lie about your age. If all you're looking for is a sugar relationship, and the girl is into that, she's not going to care that you're older than your profile states.

[Dandy Don]

Here's something I've used with some success. pof.com It's a free dating site, and you will find women on here that are interested in a sugar relationship. One thing you can do if you're not a paying member for SA, is to sign up for a free membership and look at the women that are active in your area. You'll find more than a few that are also on POF. Once you find them, proposition them on POF and they're usually at least receptive to some negotiating. It's takes more work this way, but if you're not willing to pay the monthly membership fee, it is an option.

This is a great idea and I created a profile on POF. And sure enough, several girls from SA are on POF. But here's what I have been encountering. Every time I message them I get this automated message: So and So accepts messages only from certain users. Why not message one of your Matches instead? Return to your inbox.

A little research revealed that POF allows users to block messages based on various criteria, including age. I am in my mid-40's and of course I am messaging girls in their 20's. So far, I haven't been able to successfully message anyone under 30. I find it hard to believe that every single woman under 30 that I have message has ruled out older guys, especially if they have profile on SA. So I am led to believe that POF is doing this, but of course I could be wrong.

Anybody else experiencing this?

[JZLizard]

In my experience, what makes an SB an SB is that they are selective.

That is pretty much the defining criteria. Where it gets tricky is that there are varying degrees of each type of girl.

The characteristic of a pro is that they will fuck anyone for the right price, and there is no emotional investment on their part. The characteristic of a true SB is that they expect financial help, but they still choose their partners and often get emotionally invested. I personally don't stay with any SB long enough to see how bad it can get, but I've met girls who told me flat out they fell in love with their last SD and they are looking for something similar in their next relationship, it happens.

There are a lot of girls who have daddy issues or for whatever reason are genuinely attracted to older men. It's been that way since the beginning of time. If they do have that itch to scratch, are they more likely to look for some old dude that hasn't got a pot to piss in, or are they more likely to seek out someone who can take them on nice trips and buy them nice things? Pretty much common sense. They are drawn to SD sites because there is some perception of wealth among the men and an upscale vibe (as well as the verification of credit card payment from the men which helps them feel safer about their dating preference and meet ups). If they just wanted to get fucked by a random cock, they can get on Tinder and make that happen in about 10 minutes. They are looking for cock that's a little less random and comes with additional benefits.

An escort / UTR girl doesn't care who you are or what you look like as long as you're not too creepy and are willing to pay.