"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[Marcus Weiner]

So I've been on SA and have found some promising talent in the Baltimore area and have also found some girls that really have a bad case of GPS. So I start a dialogue with this brunette Italian girl who is a very good POT. As we get more involved in the discussion, she tells me that she's ok with forgoing the monthly allowance to a per-meeting gift for the FC. So I next ask her what she would like me to bring for her gift and she begins to tell me about her last SD. She tells me that the guy has moved out of state but used to pay all of her bills and give her $1,000 each time they met, HUH? So she tells me that if she were to see me that it would be a grand every time and she wanted to see me at least once-a-week, WTF! So I ask her again about the old SD. She said that he wanted to buy her a house give her an allowance, blah, blah, blah, just to move about a day's drive from Baltimore. This is just too rich, so I ask her if he likes guys too, and she answers that of course not and why? I answered that for a house, a grand in cash and my bills paid, she should give him my number. I'd let him have his way with me, LOL. This girl is so dumb, she had no clue as to what I was talking about or that it was a joke. Oh did I mention that she works in a hair salon, LOL. Must be the fumes from all of the hair dye. So after I tell her that I've met a few classy looking women that were willing to go for the FC for $350 or less, she answers back that they must me prostitutes off of Backpage and you get what you pay for. Also that she was one of the highest "raided" not rated girls on SA. Hmmmm, I asked her how she knew so much about Backpage and prostitutes, and was "raided" a Freudian slip because that's what she used to do before she found her calling in the hair salon and SA. What she next I can't repeat, LOL. Needless to say, I asked her to lose my number, and I won't text her any more. I've also blocked her. On a positive note, I'm meeting a woman that just moved to MD from the West Coast and she understands how it works and is ok with $350 for the FC as long as there's chemistry and we can meet regularly. Hopefully this will work out well! MW.

[John G Smith]

I have found more success by not initiating the discussion of money. Try asking them what they are looking for. Sometimes they are a bit vague, not really saying they expect to be paid. "Maybe I can help you with a bill or two" is a line that works for me in opening that discussion. Seems to me that age doesn't really come into play so much with the feeling some have that if they get paid per date they are a working girl.

This is my current M. O. Unless I'm dealing with an obvious booty call or UTR, I don't discuss money amounts directly and instead just ask what they're looking for. If they don't know, then I suggest helping out with a couple of bills or other expense. Basically I try to get them away from thinking of fixed money values per date and it's more about "You make me happy, then I'll help you out".

You want to make sure the girl doesn't feel like she's getting or got played, so I try to give a minimum of $ - $$ depending how things go. Obviously it depends on your area but I've found most women who are 8 and under rating-wise, won't complain about you gifting them 150 or more if money was never discussed prior. One hundred is skirting along the edge and it probably means you need to make sure you gave some other intangible (ie. Good chemistry, nice dinner, great sex, or etc).

But I hope more SDs take on this strategy. Because the balance of power shifts more back on our favor where they focus on pleasing us and not being a meter maid.

[JZLizard]

Strippers:

Takeout hunting in strip clubs is one of my favorite forms of the hobby. Because (depending on the club of course), it is relatively challenging, and I'm one that enjoys the chase as much as the act. The challenge with strippers is that they already have a job and often make decent money (assuming a hot girl in an upscale club) so getting them out of the club can truly test your game.

One of my favorite SBs I met when she had started dancing only a few weeks. Personality-wise she wasn't really the stripper type, even though looks-wise she was born for it (smoking hot). It didn't take her long to learn the ropes of the industry, but I got to be the lucky one who broke her in.

I'd imagine meeting one on the SD websites is a bit different -- they've already expressed an interest in being an SB at that point, so the hard part (talking them into the idea) is done for you. For those who were former strippers, it would be interesting to know why they left the biz if they are still hot. It isn't hard for a hottie to make several hundred per night dancing in many clubs, so if she stopped stripping there's surely an interesting story behind why. Maybe she is crossing over to a real career or going to school and struggling as a result? I'm sure they all have a different story to tell. If she's still actively stripping, I would think her allowance expectations might be on up there. The problem of course whenever talking about strippers is the assumption that they are all super hot, but we know that's not the case. Most of us have seen low-end strip clubs that had nothing but fat or nasty looking girls on stage. I bet most of the hot ones are looking for big bucks even if they settle for less.

I once met a hot little stripper in a club and talked to her about an arrangement. I basically told her I was good for $$ per date (I really would have given her more, maybe even twice that, but I wanted to see her reaction). She said that was fine and got my number. Well she did text me the next day as she said she would, but it was way too late to get together (she said she couldn't get away from her boyfriend). We texted back and forth over the next few weeks and I talked to her again at her work, but the date never happened. I had a feeling my offering might be too low to entice her to do what it takes to sneak away from her live-in bf. She mentioned to me that she was a little nervous about the whole thing because, she said she had boyfriends / sex partners she had met at the club before but had never agreed to something like this before and was still trying to condition her mind to go through with it. So, since it never happened I think if I were to do it again differently, I would have just offered her what I thought a fuck with her would be worth. She didn't have the assertive nature to negotiate so looking back I think it just wasn't enough money to motivate her or help her get past the risk of boyfriend suspicion issues.

[John G Smith]

Both of the latter girls have a couple of things in common. They both had absent fathers from a young age, so the older man element is obviously there. They both also seem very eager for approval / validation. Simply by being nice to them and complimenting them on basic things seems to make them bloom. I am looking forward to keeping them both around as long as I can, hopefully none of the stripper problem signs will show up!

One technique I've been perfecting is using the "Fatherly Tone" when giving compliments about their physical appearance. Most hot girls are used to young men making crass, boisterous, or very blatant remarks about their appearance. Ie, "Damn! You got such a nice ass! But as you pointed out, many of these girls in the Sugar Bowl have absent fathers and they crave approval / validation from older authority figure. So instead of trying to be hip by mimicking comments from 20-something year-old guys, I use the fatherly tone (deep soft voice) and say "You look lovely in that dress". Or something like, "That color looks really good on you. ".

You'd be surprised just how effective making toned down compliments like that work with HYBs.

[John G Smith]

Pot: Yes. Would like to meet up again soon. Are you free today?

I had completely written her off, but now I'm going to be banging her in less than an hour and for only $. 5 Patience is the name of the sugar game.

In my previous "Lost and Found" updates, I experienced a similar thing and one of the key factors was meeting up that "same day". Sometimes you can catch these girls in a moment of desperation / frustration and they'll be willing to meet for a lower amount as long as you're able to act quickly.

Long-term retention may still be an issue, but if you can quickly meetup and put some money in their pocket without any drama, then you might be able to pass Go quite a few times.

It's also why even though a Pot may piss me off by wasting my time, I always leave a key under the mat. It could be 2, 3, or 6 months later but you never know when they might popup out of nowhere asking to give them another chance. At the very least, you might get a good one-night stand out of it. I've had some great experiences that were just one and two-fers that were well worth not burning the bridge.

In the Sugar Bowl, often times nice guys (with cash) ultimately finish first in the end.

[FyrGuy33]

My preference is for a 22-23 year old hard body who is past the flighty stage but still as fresh as a woman gets; however in theory their seems to be a lot to recommend the 30 something. Supposedly they are at their sexual peak, you would think they are a little more reliable, maybe you can carry on a little deeper conversation, and some reports on here have attributed a little more financial stability to this breed, making them less likely to be GPS. With all that in mind I periodically cast a line at a 30 something that catches my eye. I am astounded by my lack of success. Two cases in point this week. I mentioned a M&G with a tattooed, biker mag cover quality MILF that I had lined up. We met for dinner and sat for 3 hours, laughed, had drinks, and really hit it off on a number of topics. She was a great kisser. Downside, the pics on her profile were obviously old-she is still beautiful, but about 15 pounds past her pics. I was willing to look past that, and we set a FC date for after the holiday weekend. A couple of days before, she brings up the subject of allowance. She had previously told me she was just looking for "a little help here and there". When we got into the details she informed me that her last SD used to give her "500 per visit-sometimes 1000". I told her that I was not in that ballpark, that I would be more comfortable with 2-3 per week, with at least two visits. Needless to say we wished each other well and I moved on. The second candidate was 31, recently divorced, with a good job, supposedly just looking for a no-strings relationship, brand new to the SB concept. Her pictures looked good, and she lived relatively close to me, so I quickly set up a M & G. When I arrived, I met a woman probably 30 lbs heavier than the one in the pics. We sat and chatted for a while, and she was pleasant to talk to. When I asked about her experiences on SA so far, she became a bit indignant about men offering her money for sex. She indicated that intimacy was on the table for someone after she "got to know them" but that "she was not a prostitute" and would never consider a paid arrangement. What are these "older and smarter" women thinking? From here on out I think I'll stick to the 20 something's.

I have found more success by not initiating the discussion of money. Try asking them what they are looking for. Sometimes they are a bit vague, not really saying they expect to be paid. "Maybe I can help you with a bill or two" is a line that works for me in opening that discussion. Seems to me that age doesn't really come into play so much with the feeling some have that if they get paid per date they are a working girl. Ultimately, they are whether it is a pay per date or monthly allowance, but some of them do not see it that way. Personally, I will never figure them out.

[Dsprdo]

The conventional wisdom in the thread is that dancers don't make good SB's (with maybe HG's girl as the exception). Too emotionally detached, used to manipulating guys for money, high likelihood of GPS. In the past couple of weeks I have been on a run of girls I met on SA who are or used to be dancers, The first was the tattoed 30 something in the prior post who bore out the GPS stereotype. The other two have turned out to be great finds. SB#2 for me is 25, used to be a dancer, works at a call center now and is a new single mom. I posted previously that we had a FC visit scheduled for last week with an agreement of $ per visit. I picked her up, took her to dinner, then brought her back to my place. She has an absolute smoking hard body, and was as hungry as I when we finally got BCD. Her looks are somewhat plain besides the body, and she is a bit self conscious. She is very attentive, good communications, is genuinely seeking my approval when she is with me and has already taken down her profile. Her only drawback is that her other responsibilities limit her availability to see me, so we are on a once a week. SB#3 is a dancer now and if she proves reliable will be my ATF. She is 25, very petite, and a self admitted dork. If I had met her somewhere else I never would have picked up the stripper vibe. We had texted a lot for a few days and finally set a time to meet. I picked her up and suggested a nice local restaurant. She countered with "not really hungry, why don't we go to your house, have a drink, and take a swim?" I asked if she had her swimsuit and she looked me in the eye and said she had forgotten it, so she would have to do without. Who am I to argue? We got back to my house and had a great conversation, including discussion of sugar, where I suggested $$ per week. She thought that was fair and said she wanted to meet three times or more per week. After a bit we moved first to the pool, where I helped her out of her tight jeans and into the warm water. Soon we were kissing and I was standing in the pool holding her with her legs wrapped around me. Before long we had to take it inside, where I had one of the best experiences that I have had in years. After I took her home she texted that she had had an amazing time and couldn't wait until Thursday for our next date. We agreed to at least try and get dinner next time!

Both of the latter girls have a couple of things in common. They both had absent fathers from a young age, so the older man element is obviously there. They both also seem very eager for approval / validation. Simply by being nice to them and complimenting them on basic things seems to make them bloom. I am looking forward to keeping them both around as long as I can, hopefully none of the stripper problem signs will show up!

I have on more M&G in the works for this week with a 25 year old who I also think might be a dancer. Her profile lists her occupation as "independent contractor". I hope that means dancer, and not escort! I can't wait to see which mold she will fit.

Life is good for me right now, I am going to enjoy it and save some memories for the lean times that are sure to come at some point.

[Dsprdo]

My preference is for a 22-23 year old hard body who is past the flighty stage but still as fresh as a woman gets; however in theory their seems to be a lot to recommend the 30 something. Supposedly they are at their sexual peak, you would think they are a little more reliable, maybe you can carry on a little deeper conversation, and some reports on here have attributed a little more financial stability to this breed, making them less likely to be GPS. With all that in mind I periodically cast a line at a 30 something that catches my eye. I am astounded by my lack of success. Two cases in point this week. I mentioned a M&G with a tattooed, biker mag cover quality MILF that I had lined up. We met for dinner and sat for 3 hours, laughed, had drinks, and really hit it off on a number of topics. She was a great kisser. Downside, the pics on her profile were obviously old-she is still beautiful, but about 15 pounds past her pics. I was willing to look past that, and we set a FC date for after the holiday weekend. A couple of days before, she brings up the subject of allowance. She had previously told me she was just looking for "a little help here and there". When we got into the details she informed me that her last SD used to give her "500 per visit-sometimes 1000". I told her that I was not in that ballpark, that I would be more comfortable with 2-3 per week, with at least two visits. Needless to say we wished each other well and I moved on. The second candidate was 31, recently divorced, with a good job, supposedly just looking for a no-strings relationship, brand new to the SB concept. Her pictures looked good, and she lived relatively close to me, so I quickly set up a M & G. When I arrived, I met a woman probably 30 lbs heavier than the one in the pics. We sat and chatted for a while, and she was pleasant to talk to. When I asked about her experiences on SA so far, she became a bit indignant about men offering her money for sex. She indicated that intimacy was on the table for someone after she "got to know them" but that "she was not a prostitute" and would never consider a paid arrangement. What are these "older and smarter" women thinking? From here on out I think I'll stick to the 20 something's.

[FyrGuy33]

Like many here, I started all this spending my hard earned money with escorts many years ago. I was a sales rep that traveled the east coast and spent 1/2 my time on the road. Using escorts seemed at the time to be the easiest way to take care of my needs. Approximately 10 years ago, I sat back and took stock of what I was doing and how I was doing it. I realized I had spent a small fortune on many hot women (some not so hot as it turned out) one hour at a time. I just knew there was a better way. And with that I found Craigslist. At the time, it was like shooting fish in a barrel. You put up one ad and you would get 10 or more viable replies. Well, those days are gone for good. But anyway, to get to my point, what I realized after a while was I was using an escort approach to talk to a utr / sb. It took some time, but I got myself the skill set to interview them for the position, not the other way around. To all the newbies, you would be extremely surprised at how many of theses utr / sb's will accept 100 or 150 if that is what you are offering them. They all want 500 if they can get it. We have to be steadfast and not let them manipulate us.

I just got home from a M&G with a POT from SA. Cute 23 why / o redhead that lives in the next town over. Her profile said "moderate" on the donation. I have learned to take the chance and talk face to face with them anyway. So we get to the part of the conversation where the arrangement comes up. I told her that the last arrangement I had, which recently ended, I gave her 150 per visit, which would last 3 - 4 hours. She looked at me and then said "Ok, that works". Now, this is a girl who works part time at a deli 3 days per week. She has her own place so I don't need to spring for a SS. I look at that and say to myself that it's like I got her for 100 but I have to get a SS. So, tomorrow evening I will be at her apartment (the FC, I love that term) for what I think is a very reasonable donation. As stated below, many of these girls are in a financial bind. If they can actually think a little, this kind of money goes a long way for them. Yes, I too have had some turn me down. When they do, I remind them that my offer is better than sitting the next few months holding out for the higher donation. Most do not agree with me, but they are still on SA looking for a Daddy a year later. Their loss.

Also, talking with many of them, I find that there are a lot of guys who start off talking to them like they are shit. A young SB will think you are charming if you just be nice to them. Most guys their age cannot do that because they are self centered still. These girls are just craving to be treated special.

I hope this helps some of the newer guys. Be safe, and Happy Hobbying!

[Walruscl]

I am sure that I am completely out of touch these days with the trials and tribulations of 20 year olds. But if they are in college they usually get assistance from their parents and loans, is they supplement that with a part time job clearing $300 a week they can easily have party money.

Yeah, well this adventure has been eye-opening for me as well. I really didn't appreciate just how hard it is to pull yourself out of poverty, even when you're doing all the right things. Her finances suck, and it's mostly her circumstances to blame. Which is why she's desperately trying to figure out how to put herself through college.

The scenario you describe is certainly a common demographic, but the key there is financial support from home. She has none, and that changes everything.

[FeelGoodMd]

I just had this text conversation with an 18 year old, tall, white, sultry Pot I met through SA....

This morning, she texts back to say... she still wanted to get together today. We agree on a meeting place. Then the convo goes off the rails:

Pot: How much should I expect in return?

Me: I don't want to discuss that in advance. It seems so. Transactional.

Me: It's safe to assume I'll give you more after spending a couple hours together in private than I did after having coffee.

Pot: Well, my last arrangement we would do whatever we were both comfortable with for 500/ h. Anything more that he wants he pays significantly more for.

Me: That's not going to work for me. I'm sorry. My gift is typically (depending on how well the visit goes.

Pot: Those are literal hooker rates.

Me: (name). Sugar babies don't have "rates. " A sugar baby accept gifts from their Daddy....

Pot: I've come to expect gifts as very very generous.

Me: I hope you will take a serious look at whether you want to be a Sugar Baby or an escort. What you're doing right now sounds a lot more like the latter.

That was that. No reply from her after that (shockingly)....

Fortunately, I started seeing a new SB last week (on her 20th birthday) who is almost a carbon copy of that Pot (a little shorter, a couple years older, and light-skinned AA), and I texted her after that exchange and said I had a cancellation in my schedule and I am available this afternoon. She immediately replied with "when and where. " Last week she never asked about money in advance, was genuinely enthusiastic about the sex, seemed disappointed when she had to leave after 3 hours to get to a birthday party her sorority was throwing for her, and texted me multiple thank you's when she discovered how much I had given her ($ in an outside pocket of her purse, and. 5 in a be'day card so she knew they were "separate" gifts). Her only complaint, if you could call it that, was that I was too gentle and she wanted me to leave "marks" next time. Later that night she texted a picture of my card sitting in a prominent place on her dorm room desk (thankfully I have generic handwriting and I didn't sign it. Even with the fake name I gave her).

I have a feeling I am going to enjoy today much better with my new SB than I would have with that Pot.

I'm happy to say I did have a FANTASTIC time with my new sorority girl SB last week, who likes to take it as rough as I like to give it out. We spent three hours together, and texted / emailed back and forth throughout the long weekend. We're planning to meet again at the end of the is week before she goes out of town.

The real follow-up, however, is a text I got this morning from the 18 year old who wanted $$ / hour. The conversation started like this (after not hearing from her for 6 days):

Pot: Sorry if we got off on the wrong foot. I would like a mutually beneficial relationship with you.

Me: Thank you for the text, K* I hadn't expected to hear from you again. I'd like the same thing.

Me: Can you accept the level of help I'm able to provide?

Pot: Yes. Would like to meet up again soon. Are you free today?

I had completely written her off, but now I'm going to be banging her in less than an hour and for only $. 5 Patience is the name of the sugar game.

[Beachesnole02]

Thanks for the input.

Was drinking beer with a few golf cart girls last month as they finished their shift, and one of them mentioned about $180 dollar day!

I am sure that I am completely out of touch these days with the trials and tribulations of 20 year olds. But if they are in college they usually get assistance from their parents and loans, is they supplement that with a part time job clearing $300 a week they can easily have party money.

Sounds like my ex wife. She worked with other doctors, socialized at the country club and could not understand why a lot of people had a problem paying their hospital bills. My line of work gives me access to the day to day finances of a broad range of people, and your average 20 year old does not have many good paying jobs in the service industry available to them.

Yes, some, not all, of the women working the beer carts at the high end clubs near the beach are making a buck fifty a day "in season". But I have worked with hot looking chicks working lessor clubs that make 0 nly 50 a day in tips and that is only for 4-5 months a year. The bartenders at the local Bonefish Grill make 70 k a year, the hostess makes minimum wage, and the good waitresses are making just enough to afford a studio apartment if they scrimp. The bartender at my favorite local whole had to get a 2nd job because she only made 30 a year because the old guys are stingy tippers. For every 40 jobs at a busy high end restaurant their are 400 at Dennys, selling dresses at the surf shop, slinging coffee at starbucks, and those girls are VERY happy with an extra 100 tax free a week. All of my babes work a real job.

God Bless capitalism. It gives us a land of opportunity.

So my 5th of July special surprised me. She had been complaining for weeks about her husband pestering her for anal sex and she kept telling him no because it hurt. Guess who whips out the lube and says she wants my cum in her a#.

[JZLizard]

I actually just stumbled across that website the other day. Haven't had the time to browse it too much, but I did run across a few gals that I had heard of from the Charlotte area. Its a bit scary to think of all the damage someone could do to an individual simply because they got their panties in a wad over something.

Yeah, I think if the "victim" reports it to the admin of dirty.com they will take it down unless the author can prove it's true, but in theory once something is on the net, it can be archived and searchable forever. This past season one of my SBs said that they talk among themselves and "review" their SDs but she wouldn't say where. I did see on Nightline or one of those shows a story about a site that is strictly for females to bag on guys (forgot the site name) but it wasn't geared toward SDs, it was more designed to warn girls about serial daters and pricks from Facebook etc. But this aspect of our hobby does bother me.

[FredMoore]

Thanks for the input.

I do live in a large metro area in the Midwest. I remember 20 years ago my girlfriend worked for a popular restaurant, and she leave work with 150-200 dollars on Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Now granted that 200 dollars went a long way back then when 1 bedroom rents with $700 dollar range and no one had cell phone.

Was drinking beer with a few golf cart girls last month as they finished their shift, and one of them mentioned about $180 dollar day!

I am sure that I am completely out of touch these days with the trials and tribulations of 20 year olds. But if they are in college they usually get assistance from their parents and loans, is they supplement that with a part time job clearing $300 a week they can easily have party money.

Sure the girls want to maximize their ROI, but here is a little rationale. What makes more sense? $150 / night slinging drinks for 8 hours vs Lying on her back (or whatever) with a sex machine pounding her for an hour bringing her to multiple Os? No contest. Also, they frequently get treated to a nice dinner and drinks and get to squire a rich stud around in front of their buds. They get the $$ ,sexual satisfaction, and an ego boost without breaking a sweat. Well, maybe some sweating involved.

[Dirty Dingus]

I don't know if you guys have seen the website thedirty.com, but it makes a very good case for never letting your SBs know your last name, and being careful about who you give photos to.

There are other similar revenge websites but this one I had not come across this one before until I googled someone's name and an article about her on this site was at the top of the list. LOL. It's quite funny to look read the submissions in your local city (click on dirty world at the top). Be entertained by it but be careful not to end up being one of the sources of entertainment.

Always stay as anonymous as possible, and in the event of a dispute / SB gone sideways, try to diffuse the situation, take the high road and then get the hell out of there, trying to exit on a positive note.

I actually just stumbled across that website the other day. Haven't had the time to browse it too much, but I did run across a few gals that I had heard of from the Charlotte area. Its a bit scary to think of all the damage someone could do to an individual simply because they got their panties in a wad over something.