"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[FredMoore]

I've seen that. One common theme I've noticed there is the purpose seems to be able to say BTDT. Most report the actual sex is quite lousy. That's one reason I'd require an all-nighter.

Each to his own but these Porn girls just have to "assume the position" and moan and grimace at the right time while the stud pounds her for 1000 strokes. Doesn't appeal to me. I like the less experienced but impressional types. I saw a Cali girl several years back who was hot for a 35 yr old but a little ridden hard looking who said she was a porn actress in her younger years. She introduced me to anal and I was not all that impressed. Why waste a perfectly good vagina.

[SkinJr]

I woke up this morning to six messages from sbs I emailed not so recently. The flood gates have opened.

Wait till the girls are out of school in a few weeks should pick up fast.

[JZLizard]

BTW. There is a porn star thread in the los angeles section quoting names and prices.

I've seen that. One common theme I've noticed there is the purpose seems to be able to say BTDT. Most report the actual sex is quite lousy. That's one reason I'd require an all-nighter.

[JZLizard]

She was engaged when we met but had told him she wanted to call it off. She got lots of pressure from her family and fiancee and finally went through with it. In the meantime we got close. I think she'll end up divorced in a year or two, but everyone has to make their own mistakes. I am giving her a very modest amount, so I'm not sure its all about the money.

If you look at the girl I wrote from 20 yrs ago in post #6051, she was happily engaged when I met her. She was on kind of a bachelorette / birth party combination celebration on the night I met her at that nightclub. She initiated the meeting with me by sending her friend over to let me know she was interested in knowing me. Right after we fucked the first time, she ended up breaking up with her fiancé, telling him exactly what had happened and that she wanted to try a relationship with me. He told her she was making a mistake, but he would be there for her when she was ready to come back (which I thought was NUTS! I couldn't fathom saying that). She got pregnant with my kid (was supposed to be on the pill), got an abortion and I didn't trust her after that (she was a compulsive liar anyway) so I didn't want any more to do with her. She immediately went running back to him, moved to another state.

I always wondered what happened with those two until Facebook came along. I can look them up today, they are still happily (it seems) married after all this time, have three kids together, seem like a nice family. She was a professional lingerie model stunner back then and while is not really fat I would not recognize her at the mall if I walked by her -- she is not fuckable at any price to me these days.

The real happy ending (no pun intended) to the story is that via Facebook, I was able to confirm by the age of the kids that none of them were mine. She had put some doubt in my mind right as a broke up with her before she moved out of state, just to be vengeful and while I didn't lose sleep I wondered about it for a long time.

But yes, married / engaged girls cheat sometimes, unfortunately. I would never do it in an engagement situation. I have done it as a married man of course but that is after some level of boredom or dissatisfaction with things in general. I wouldn't do it fresh out of a honeymoon, ever, or even a year later.

[Beachesnole02]

A couple of my regulars over the last year are married. Works for me, on the pill, semi monogamous so low risk for bare back sex.

[Dsprdo]

Sheesh! What a world we live in. A girl gets married and still wants to fuck around. Why get married at all? I guess money is the answer. What some girls will do to "live the life " You married guys know already how bad a marriage can be if you are not blissfully happy. But to live with a guy you don't care enough about to be monogamous, at least for a while.

She was engaged when we met but had told him she wanted to call it off. She got lots of pressure from her family and fiancee and finally went through with it. In the meantime we got close. I think she'll end up divorced in a year or two, but everyone has to make their own mistakes. I am giving her a very modest amount, so I'm not sure its all about the money.

[FredMoore]

I still have my one regular SB. She just got married a couple of weeks ago, but she wants to continue and is coming over this afternoon. She is a little blond spinner, not gorgeous, but attractive and she has been very sweet and she is very inexpensive. I will keep her around as long as I can. Just don't know how much time she will have to devote now that she is moved in with her SO.

Sheesh! What a world we live in. A girl gets married and still wants to fuck around. Why get married at all? I guess money is the answer. What some girls will do to "live the life " You married guys know already how bad a marriage can be if you are not blissfully happy. But to live with a guy you don't care enough about to be monogamous, at least for a while.

Hollywood, you have the answer it seems. Have your cake and eat it too.

[HollywoodGuy]

No, sorry for the misunderstanding. I wasn't commenting on your 2.5 k monthly amount, I was just commenting on the part where you said " $$$$ for a stunner may be worth it" (for some) and giving my own view on what that price range would have to buy me to be worth it. About the 2.5 k amount specifically I thought that I had used that in my prior post (when I actually said $1-2 k) which is the only reason I brought up that amount specifically. I was commenting specifically about GPS girls I've met that thought they were worth that for one night which is a joke to me unless they are a top name porn star.

BTW. There is a porn star thread in the los angeles section quoting names and prices.

[JZLizard]

I think you may have misread my post. The 2.5 k a month I spend is for at least 22 total visits from multiple girls in a month.

No, sorry for the misunderstanding. I wasn't commenting on your 2.5 k monthly amount, I was just commenting on the part where you said " $$$$ for a stunner may be worth it" (for some) and giving my own view on what that price range would have to buy me to be worth it. About the 2.5 k amount specifically I thought that I had used that in my prior post (when I actually said $1-2 k) which is the only reason I brought up that amount specifically. I was commenting specifically about GPS girls I've met that thought they were worth that for one night which is a joke to me unless they are a top name porn star.

[Dsprdo]

I've kind of been on hiatus for a while due to work travel. I am periodically out of town on projects and work a lot of hours when I'm there. I've tried hunting for SB's on those trips with limited success, mostly because I just don't have time for it. My latest project is winding down, and I'm about to start hunting for the summer. I still have my one regular SB. She just got married a couple of weeks ago, but she wants to continue and is coming over this afternoon. She is a little blond spinner, not gorgeous, but attractive and she has been very sweet and she is very inexpensive. I will keep her around as long as I can. Just don't know how much time she will have to devote now that she is moved in with her SO.

I've always been a SA guy, but thought I would try SD4 M for a change. There are lots of girls on there in my area, and not too many are duplicates from SA. I've been on for a couple of weeks now (giving it two months on the prepaid card) and have several observations. The response rate to emails seems to be lower on here for me, but admittedly I have been sporadic due to work and haven't been sending out as much detail in the emails. I am going to do a blast with my standard letter from SA and see how that works. SA seems to attract more girls from the local party school. There also seem to be more older (30's to early 40's) women on SD4 M than I am used to seeing. I am also getting the occasional message from the UK or eastern Europe. Finally, I see more girls that I recognize from backpage than I did on SA. I plan on giving it a good try but my initial impression is that maybe in my area SA is a better way to go. I know others have had the opposite experience, I think it's curious why, maybe just word of mouth among girls of a certain economic status and mindset.

I do have a M&G this afternoon with a slim, white 23 yo who I am almost sure is brand new. She has said that she doesn't want to hop right into bed, but there has been no discussion of sugar, so I might invest a dinner or two and see if I can charm her panties to the floor. Looking forward to a great summer!

[HollywoodGuy]

To me, a grand would be about the price I would be willing to pay for an all-nighter GFE romp with a legit porn star of my choosing including filming to my liking, (yes I realize this is about what they get for a couple of hours of on-set work so it's never happening) and to be honest a good portion of that would be simply for the bragging rights to say I'd fucked that particular porn star all night long. In other words the same porn star for a second romp would be worth maybe seven hundred for an all-nighter to me. To get me to part with 2.5 k would have to be something like two porn stars, all-nighter, no rules.

So to me having some no-name girl who would have been civy dating material for me 20 years ago try to command that kind of money for one night, with no guarantee of what I'm really going to get out of is just absurd to say the least. I'm met strippers that have told me they get a grand or higher solicitations all day long, which I can believe, but they won't get that for me.

I think you may have misread my post. The 2.5 k a month I spend is for at least 22 total visits from multiple girls in a month. Some last an hour. Some last 24 hours. My average per visit this year is at about $.2 per visit. To get paid the girl must get me off one way or another. Most are trained to perform a choreographed set of scenes that result in the best climax I can possibly achieve. I have never found it a problem to direct these girls to perform in various positions, with the speed, pressure and techniques needed to make daddy happy. Whether their acting skills come naturally or are just well rehearsed is of little consequence to me as long as I am entertained. But my goal is always to have a mutual exchange of emotional and physical satisfaction. Otherwise I would only date pros.

[JZLizard]

If you read Ashley Madison's fine print, they even state that some profiles are created for entertainment purposes.

What I'd like to know is how these sites get off the ground at all if they don't create some fake profiles. Talking about a newly launched site. I really doubt women sign up in droves and are early adopters, and the truth is if men register for an account and don't see lots of babes they aren't paying or staying. So how do they get membership momentum if not by generating phony ads of women to lure the paying men?

I'd love to know how that works. Any insight anyone?

[JZLizard]

Ruling out the truly rich, so price is not a problem, $$$$ for a stunner may be worth it. But I have daily needs that have to be met. On normal VP pay at the moment. I have budgeted about 2.5 k a month for the last couple years now out of necessity. But came to find out that the $ girls really are the best ones IMHO. As no one can support themselves on that amount they really have to like you to stick around. Unless they are seeing 3 guys a day. But I am talking about the true NP SB exclusive girls. Of which there are very few admittedly.

To me, a grand would be about the price I would be willing to pay for an all-nighter GFE romp with a legit porn star of my choosing including filming to my liking, (yes I realize this is about what they get for a couple of hours of on-set work so it's never happening) and to be honest a good portion of that would be simply for the bragging rights to say I'd fucked that particular porn star all night long. In other words the same porn star for a second romp would be worth maybe seven hundred for an all-nighter to me. To get me to part with 2.5 k would have to be something like two porn stars, all-nighter, no rules.

So to me having some no-name girl who would have been civy dating material for me 20 years ago try to command that kind of money for one night, with no guarantee of what I'm really going to get out of is just absurd to say the least. I'm met strippers that have told me they get a grand or higher solicitations all day long, which I can believe, but they won't get that for me.

[TravelinSD]

If you read Ashley Madison's fine print, they even state that some profiles are created for entertainment purposes. On SD4 M I always search by most recent visit. I've noticed that there's a core of about 10-15 profiles that are always at the top and have been there for years. I'm assuming those are all fake. I also find it interesting that I get tons of the scammer emails on SD4 M from all over the world, but never seem to get those off SA.

Just some observations.

Travelin.

I think it's known that fake profiles exist on certain sites like Ashley Mad, and I'm sure they exist on others too.

I remember noticing that on SD4 M, there'd be profiles newly created and although I sent out my message right away, none of the messages were read and those profiles never logged in again.

[HollywoodGuy]

This pretty much sums up my perspective, always pay after the fact. I also am increasingly moving toward a policy of never even discussing price ahead of time because I believe that locking in a price obligates me to pay that price regardless of performance, and once I do that then the SB is in control of how good the performance is and I am unwilling to give them that control. If she insists on discussing price ahead of time, I will do it, which I have done a few times, but I find those girls to be more escorts than real SBs.

I'm relatively new to the official SB scene, yet looking back I've "helped" various "girlfriends" out going back as far as a couple of decades ago. True story, mid 90's -- I was married back then, and a girl I was fucking on the side, I decided to turn into my own personal paid playmate. She was only 3-4 years younger than me -- not really the SB age gap we see these days, but smoking hot. I actually handed her an envelope with some help with the bills (it felt thick because I padded it with a few low denomination bills so she would feel sorry for me after opening it) she held onto it, sort of feeling it in her hands, long enough that I could see the decision making process taking place in her mind as she felt the girth of the envelope. I don't remember how much it was but I think maybe 150 (remember this was 20 yrs ago and she was a separated mom with kids). I was not rich or in a real position to truly support her but I was trying to help anyway. She handed me back the envelope without ever opening it or looking inside, and basically said she didn't want it to be about money. Later she went and bragged to her friends about what a great woman she was for not taking my money (in retrospect yes it was kind of admirable wasn't it), yet she embellished the story to say that I gave her $1000 (remember she never looked in the envelope) and she didn't want it because she's not a working girl (well she was but in a good way, hehe).

Ok fast forward to my 2014 SB expedition, and I can categorize my SBs as following into one of two categories:

1. The Approach: Didn't discuss money ahead of time, but did not balk or even blink at spending when they ordered a drink, dessert, extra appetizers at dinner etc.

The Result: Good sex, full-on GFE. One of them ended on bad terms but it was unrelated to money, and even she was talking about looking forward to the next date as she was getting dressed to go home. The others described their experience as "would love to repeat" with me, and thanked me for my generous gift ($200 is my standard gift for a stunner, and I don't date below that, but keep in mind sometimes my hotel cost me more than the poon).

2. The Approach: Got into money discussions before fucking them.

The Result: Did not work out well for me. Never even got to see them naked. Turns out the girls I go for think their time is worth $1 k-2 k or other ridiculous amounts but ONLY if you ask them ahead of time. Cram the cock in them and spray them with cum and pay them what you want and they're happy. In these cases of the pre-discussed pussy, I told them I don't want to be the customer to an expensive hooker. They say they are not hookers. I said "so you'd fuck me without payment just to try each other out once then, and if chemistry is there we can talk about allowance? Because if not that would mean you're a hooker" and of course then they usually become unresponsive. Hehe. So you can see how this approach isn't working for me. I have tried being a little smoother than that, even demonstrating how my rate per hour is much better than even the fantasy rates they've quoted me (to be fair those four digit figures they quote are sometimes for a full night or weekend, but the truth is I don't WANT them for that long so if they were anything less than retarded at math, they would know the per-hour rate I'm offering is a good deal for them).

So basically my conclusion is that I need to at least meet them face to face, let them know my pics are real, pour on my normal dating charm a little bit, etc. And I feel that puts me in the best negotiating position if in fact negotiating is to take place at all (it really hasn't yet, before the fact, with me). Talking money first doesn't always go my way, I wrote here about an experience where I met for dinner only to have the ***** go GPS on me. Under the impression her pussy was worth four digit figures. Her loss though, because the very next night I had an all-nighter with someone that blew her away, I paid peanuts and had to send her home because she wouldn't leave. And, the night after that I was sitting in bed alone holding my own dick dreaming about what happened the night before.

That's just how it goes for me. But I still hold firm to never pay in advance. If negotiating in advance is working for you, I say keep doing it (so okay maybe I don't hold firm in all cases). But, it has not yet worked once for me.

As far as someone you've banged previously -- even less reason to advance them money. They should already have trust for you by now, knowing you will pay when the time is right. Maybe they are tapping into our sense of "if you can't give me the money now, I'll have to fuck someone else for it". If that's the reason then just know they're playing you. It will not turn out in your favor to pay them in advance, no matter what, and it doesn't matter if it's SBs or someone mowing your yard. They already have their money and they will minimize their role from there. Pay later and only pay commensurate with their performance. Lousy work, shit pay. That's how life works.

Ruling out the truly rich, so price is not a problem, $$$$ for a stunner may be worth it. But I have daily needs that have to be met. On normal VP pay at the moment. I have budgeted about 2.5 k a month for the last couple years now out of necessity. But came to find out that the $ girls really are the best ones IMHO. As no one can support themselves on that amount they really have to like you to stick around. Unless they are seeing 3 guys a day. But I am talking about the true NP SB exclusive girls. Of which there are very few admittedly.