"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[Rouleur]

Last week, partially due to my reading this thread, I joined SA and began the process of finding a SB. Perhaps a little background, 56, Divorced for a year this coming June. I live within a couple hours of Las Vegas and arranged my first M+G at the Mandalay Bay Resort. I had been texting with my first potential SB for the last 3 days and, being a coward, had not requested any definitive photo proving the SB actually looked like the photos she had sent me in addition to her profile photos.

Running a bit late because of Vegas traffic, I had called her to update my arrival time and asked her to suggest a restaurant at Mandalay Bay to meet at. Her response was to say " I don't really need to eat as I've got about 20 lbs to lose right now" Now, this SB is a UNLV student standing at 5'3". It didn't take an Einstein or my rapidly shrinking penis to visualize what 20 extra pounds on a girl her size would look like. What the hell, I was almost there and it was just lunch.

I entered through the rear parking structure and once entering the lobby I called her to make the final contact. As the phone was ringing I saw a short NFL Left-tackle in a dress and striped blouse on her phone. As I walked by the L-tackle I experienced that weird audio sensation where you hear a voice in your phone and from a secondary source at the same time. It was her. I had already made the mistake of describing what I was wearing to her and before I could run for my life I heard my name called out. My brain began a slow silent chant. You stupid fck. You stupid fck.

I was starving and we sat at a restaurant and ordered. The dialogue was friendly, and about as sexual as a conversation with your Mother or Sister can be. She wanted to discuss financials and her limits as to what she was willing to do. I, as politely as I could, told her that we were not a match and that we didn't need to worry about those details. That was pretty much the end of the lunch. Desert? Yes, she had ordered the biggest fcking chocolate something that I mistook for a mud bath when they wheeled it to the table.

It was my intention to start off my contribution to this forum with a cool story that would allow me to start my journey to becoming a Senior Member here. Through only my fault, it didn't work out that way. But this is my starting point and I hope over the next several weeks, months, and on to be able to post successes rather than failures. My name is Nitwit, glad to be here.

[HollywoodGuy]

Went on two meet and greets tonite. Remember I always make my offer of $ upfront and get confirmation prior to meeting anyone.

I was mad at my ATF so I looked for the prettiest BBW to just get a slam dunk HE or maybe a BJ and call it a night. I meet her at a coffee shop and within 5 minutes she tells me she is looking for an allowance. That was a fast date.

Called the next one. A super hot 19 year old. After I pick her up we talk in the car and she says she wants $$ for a quick fuck and covered and no BJ. She was so pretty I talked to her for 2 hours and then dropped her off.

So no money spent, got 2 girls off my list and went home.

[JZLizard]

Most true spinners are genetically predisposed to be what I call hard gainers. Forget the druggies. They are typically what's called skinny fat. No muscle tone at all. The truth is the only way to get a bigger butt (and not get bigger everywhere else) is to work out. Boobs are all fat. And all pro fitness models have fake boobs as their body fat % makes it impossible to have even normal sized boobs. Anyway, the point is. Praise your spinner daily as she is hearing 10 x more comments in the opposite direction.

See I like softness in a woman (up to a point of course). To me soft is feminine, hard is masculine. I don't want my lady to have veins bulging out of their neck and I feel sorry for those girls who feel empowered by reaching that level of fitness, because it might be attractive to some, but if some were the majority the porn industry would be flooded with female Lou Ferrignos and its not. When I see women like that I think they probably have a big schlong. I love spinners if they are fit, but the shorter they are, the more they need to be aware that even a few extra pounds can make a big difference. This is usually not a problem for the college age girl just trying to get by, but once they get a more comfortable lifestyle then look out if they are short. Oddly I find Asian girls to be an exception to this at times, since sometimes even the short ones seem to maintain their overall figure even to very mature age. Why the other races at same height tend to go full blown Ben & Jerrys syndrome is beyond me.

My first "official" SB (by that I mean we labeled each other as an SD / SB arrangement the night we met, but of course I'd "helped" girls before that and received help in exchange...) was a 20 year old dancer about 5'4", not really athletic by any means but slim and shapely, long legs and perfect ass. She'd already had a kid but did it young and had the height and overall genetic disposition to bounce back to the point where you'd never know (and I mean zero stretch marks or signs of elasticity). At her height and overall genetic shape she had a decent margin to gain or lose weight before anyone would notice. If a girl is 5'0" then an extra 4 lbs makes a big difference. That's hard for most of us guys to imagine. 4 lbs is probably the inbound weight of what I had for lunch and dinner combined, and I will work it all off before morning just squirming in bed thinking about sex and / or stressing about work. I would have to gain probably 20 lbs before someone close to me even noticed, and 40 lbs before coworkers started to ask me if I'm still working out or not.

4 lbs is a lot on a spinner, and 20 lbs is a hell of a lot on a woman of any size I'd be interested in fucking. My advice to them all is that less is more. Like I said I like softness, so I like a bit of cushion to grab onto and when I'm doggie styling I don't want for one second to feel like I'm gripping a lean muscular man-ass. But it seems easier to put weight on these girls than to force a fat chick to look good. At the end of it all, if they swallow enough of my load they will get a decent protein serving.

It really comes down to the girl, though. I've known a couple of waif-like frail girls that were really sexual and it was a turn on in an odd way. Honestly if it came down to anorexia vs. Obesity, I'd take the skinny chicks without hesitation.

[HollywoodGuy]

Whenever women say something to me like "they're trying to gain weight in their butt", I always think it's more or less to get a feel for whether I will still like them if they add a few trips to Taco Bell per week to their current diet. Now most of the black guys I know tend to like a lot more junk in the trunk than I do, but I always tell the girls if they want to know the overall attractiveness standard, take a look at the top-paid (or top-sought after) porn stars at any given time and try to imitate their shape and they can't go wrong. Typically the Riley Reid type draws a lot more clicks than Kim Kardashian types, but every dude has their own preferences so girls should target their weight depending on what they are looking for.

Most true spinners are genetically predisposed to be what I call hard gainers. Forget the druggies. They are typically what's called skinny fat. No muscle tone at all. The truth is the only way to get a bigger butt (and not get bigger everywhere else) is to work out. Boobs are all fat. And all pro fitness models have fake boobs as their body fat % makes it impossible to have even normal sized boobs. Anyway, the point is. Praise your spinner daily as she is hearing 10 x more comments in the opposite direction.

[JZLizard]

In general society, spinners are out and big booty girls are in.
I have been a spinner lover since high school. Even then I was sometimes ashamed (and even stopped seeing girls) as I knew my friends were into big boobs and butts. After HS all that changed and I have never looked back. if you have a spinner never stop telling her how perfect she is.

Whenever women say something to me like "they're trying to gain weight in their butt", I always think it's more or less to get a feel for whether I will still like them if they add a few trips to Taco Bell per week to their current diet. Now most of the black guys I know tend to like a lot more junk in the trunk than I do, but I always tell the girls if they want to know the overall attractiveness standard, take a look at the top-paid (or top-sought after) porn stars at any given time and try to imitate their shape and they can't go wrong. Typically the Riley Reid type draws a lot more clicks than Kim Kardashian types, but every dude has their own preferences so girls should target their weight depending on what they are looking for.

[FyrGuy33]

SD4 M choices.

Slim. Most are, but if they are AA they might be more athletic.

Athletic. Could be in great shape up to thick but firm.

Average. Usually at least 20 lbs overweight.

Ample. Confusing because many girl relate this word to bust size not body size.

Cuddly. Always overweight.

Very cuddly. Grossly overweight.

Nationwide the average height and weight of the american woman is 5' 4" and 162 lbs. So at least 40 lbs overweight.

I would imagine the average height and weight of a viable SB is closer to.

5' 4' and 132 lbs. Even at 132 she would have to be an athlete not to be overweight.

I have a scale in my dining room that every girl has to step on, no exceptions.

I like that. I'm going to get a small scale I can keep in the trunk of my car and take into the no tell. I'll let you guys know how that works out for me...

[FyrGuy33]

Hi Guys! With all the talk about pics and SBs I ran into a rarity this week. Generally I don't ask for picks before a M&G but always appreciate it if they offer them. I had one I was texting with recently who only sent me face pics. I could tell she was probably a little heavy, but I don't mind a little thickness if the price is right and she has a pretty face. We had the M&G set and I was just texting her details when she texts back "I'm a little nervous, I'm not exactly skinny and I'm afraid you won't like me". She attached a full length pic and she was waaay beyond what even I find acceptable for weight. I don't see how she could describe herself as "average" on SA, LOL I texted her back declining our M&G as diplomatically as possible. I told her I appreciated her honesty... And I really did.

Good Hunting,

Travelin.

I find MOST of the women on SA that describe themselves as "average", and don't provide a full body pic, are FAT. Plain and simple. Personally, I pass them by. They are either in denial or have no concept of what average is. Unless it's me. Perhaps "average" is now fat and I am just living in the past.....

Good thing you were able to bail out before the M&G. It's just too uncomfortable to sit there with a girl who you do not find attractive because she is bigger than you thought she would be. I had that happen 5 years ago. It was hard to tell her that I liked talking to her but I cannot get intimate with her. She didn't take it very well...

NEXT!

[HollywoodGuy]

Hi Guys! With all the talk about pics and SBs I ran into a rarity this week. Generally I don't ask for picks before a M&G but always appreciate it if they offer them. I had one I was texting with recently who only sent me face pics. I could tell she was probably a little heavy, but I don't mind a little thickness if the price is right and she has a pretty face. We had the M&G set and I was just texting her details when she texts back "I'm a little nervous, I'm not exactly skinny and I'm afraid you won't like me". She attached a full length pic and she was waaay beyond what even I find acceptable for weight. I don't see how she could describe herself as "average" on SA, LOL I texted her back declining our M&G as diplomatically as possible. I told her I appreciated her honesty... And I really did.

Good Hunting,

Travelin.

SD4 M choices.

Slim. Most are, but if they are AA they might be more athletic.

Athletic. Could be in great shape up to thick but firm.

Average. Usually at least 20 lbs overweight.

Ample. Confusing because many girl relate this word to bust size not body size.

Cuddly. Always overweight.

Very cuddly. Grossly overweight.

Nationwide the average height and weight of the american woman is 5' 4" and 162 lbs. So at least 40 lbs overweight.

I would imagine the average height and weight of a viable SB is closer to.

5' 4' and 125 to 132 lbs. Even at 132 she would have to be an athlete not to be overweight.

I have a scale in my dining room that every girl has to step on, no exceptions.

A booty call girl I recently met was 5'8' and 135. Not a spinner, just average and tight. Saw her a few days ago, she says i gotta weigh myself. She was at 140 and so happy because she is trying to gain weight especially in her butt. Very common with a lot of girls watching too many music videos and thinking all guys want nikki minaj/ kim kardashian shaped girls. Remember when dating spinners to always comment on how perfect their body is (tell them over and over and over). Many have low self esteem due to so many haters telling them they are anorexic. My 5'4" and 105 MILF recently told me she wanted to go up to 120. I told her that would be a real turn off for me. In general society, spinners are out and big booty girls are in.

I have been a spinner lover since high school. Back then I was sometimes ashamed (and even stopped seeing girls) as I knew my friends were into big boobs and butts and i didnt want to hear their comments. After HS all that changed and I have never looked back. if you have a spinner never stop telling her how perfect she is because the pressure is on her to gain weight. I call it the Oprahfication of America. Once she made it OK to be fat, many women just gave up. Thank god I live in L.A. where thin is OK. But in the AA and Hispanic communities the pressure to be thick in all the right places is overwhelming.

[TravelinSD]

Hi Guys! With all the talk about pics and SBs I ran into a rarity this week. Generally I don't ask for picks before a M&G but always appreciate it if they offer them. I had one I was texting with recently who only sent me face pics. I could tell she was probably a little heavy, but I don't mind a little thickness if the price is right and she has a pretty face. We had the M&G set and I was just texting her details when she texts back "I'm a little nervous, I'm not exactly skinny and I'm afraid you won't like me". She attached a full length pic and she was waaay beyond what even I find acceptable for weight. I don't see how she could describe herself as "average" on SA, LOL I texted her back declining our M&G as diplomatically as possible. I told her I appreciated her honesty... And I really did.

Good Hunting,

Travelin.

[FyrGuy33]

Good job skin! It sounds as thought this young lady has some potential. I would not be so quick to kick her to the curb. This sounds like the kind of girl that you can mold into the perfect sb for you. As long as she takes direction well, I would suggest you continue to see her and get her to where you want her. The price is certainly good and you would not spend too much to find out if she is worth the time and expense.

[HollywoodGuy]

Met 22 year old massage therapist this morning at Starbucks. We hit it off and talked for 45 minutes. I got a couple hints during that she was ready to move to more.

I didn't want to be pushy so I kept beating around the Bush and then we finally started talking about going to a hotel.

She was immediately asking siri about hotels. I just picked the closest and nicest. I get a 1 1/2 hour workout before I paint her face. She is a little freakish and very vocal. Very nice girl but my spidey sense is tingling. She says she hasn't went all the way yet with a sd due to their age. I'm only 39 and good looking so maybe everything she said and did were true. But I'm very skeptical. Worried she might be utr.

I don't know exactly how your rating goes but she was looks.

Face 8 very cute sweet look with freckles and tiny nose.

Body 7 short and well sized but her shape wasn't perfect for some reason, awesome tan lines but no boobs.

Personality 8 too hippie for me but very outgoing.

Sex 8 I'm kind of strict here. She was awesome and very vocal and very submissive. And she could deep throat forever. But she could get lazy, wasn't great on top, and wasn't technically skilled at oral. I gave a few pointers before blasting her eye.

But, big but, she took it like a champ while talking dirty and sucking it clean. May need to make that a 8.5.

Gave $.

It is supposed to be one a week.

Skin.

Definitely a keeper for now.See her 3 to 5 times till you find someone better.

[FredMoore]

Good job brother Skin Jr.

Worried she might be utr? Did she call you Hun or Babe? That would be diagnostic.

[Colgado]

Met 22 year old massage therapist this morning at Starbucks. We hit it off and talked for 45 minutes. I got a couple hints during that she was ready to move to more.

I didn't want to be pushy so I kept beating around the Bush and then we finally started talking about going to a hotel.

She was immediately asking siri about hotels. I just picked the closest and nicest. I get a 1 1/2 hour workout before I paint her face. She is a little freakish and very vocal. Very nice girl but my spidey sense is tingling. She says she hasn't went all the way yet with a sd due to their age. I'm only 39 and good looking so maybe everything she said and did were true. But I'm very skeptical. Worried she might be utr.

I don't know exactly how your rating goes but she was looks.

Face 8 very cute sweet look with freckles and tiny nose.

Body 7 short and well sized but her shape wasn't perfect for some reason, awesome tan lines but no boobs.

Personality 8 too hippie for me but very outgoing.

Sex 8 I'm kind of strict here. She was awesome and very vocal and very submissive. And she could deep throat forever. But she could get lazy, wasn't great on top, and wasn't technically skilled at oral. I gave a few pointers before blasting her eye.

But, big but, she took it like a champ while talking dirty and sucking it clean. May need to make that a 8.5.

Gave $.

It is supposed to be one a week.

Skin.

I love the eye blasting comment. If you find out she is a UTR, I would be interested in hitting her up. Sound like fun.

[SkinJr]

Met 22 year old massage therapist this morning at Starbucks. We hit it off and talked for 45 minutes. I got a couple hints during that she was ready to move to more.

I didn't want to be pushy so I kept beating around the Bush and then we finally started talking about going to a hotel.

She was immediately asking siri about hotels. I just picked the closest and nicest. I get a 1 1/2 hour workout before I paint her face. She is a little freakish and very vocal. Very nice girl but my spidey sense is tingling. She says she hasn't went all the way yet with a sd due to their age. I'm only 39 and good looking so maybe everything she said and did were true. But I'm very skeptical. Worried she might be utr.

I don't know exactly how your rating goes but she was looks.

Face 8 very cute sweet look with freckles and tiny nose.

Body 7 short and well sized but her shape wasn't perfect for some reason, awesome tan lines but no boobs.

Personality 8 too hippie for me but very outgoing.

Sex 8 I'm kind of strict here. She was awesome and very vocal and very submissive. And she could deep throat forever. But she could get lazy, wasn't great on top, and wasn't technically skilled at oral. I gave a few pointers before blasting her eye.

But, big but, she took it like a champ while talking dirty and sucking it clean. May need to make that a 8.5.

Gave $.

It is supposed to be one a week.

Skin.

[John G Smith]

I try to be pretty casual with requesting pics similar to Hollywood. But my time is also valuable and limited, so I don't want to waste potentially 1-2 weeks setting up a date and FC visit, only to be underwhelmed by her misrepresented physical appearance.

Not to sound like a jerk, but it's one of the main reasons I tend to shy away from women who have had kids. Some women are able to bounce back nicely from pregnancy, but far too often most women have after effects from pregnancy, which are hard to see in normal pics. Woman who had kids could look decent in a normal picture, but once you see her naked without a push-up bra, you often see flabby / droopy tits and loose cottage cheese stomach. All of a sudden you're now relying 100% on Vitamin V to pull you through the rest of the encounter, so you can pop, go home and text the next SB on the rolodex. Whereas girls who don't have kids yet, a normal pic will do because generally once you see their body type, you have decent idea what's underneath and there's not too many bad surprises.

So if the girl has a kid, I may be a little more insistent on getting a full body picture that shows a little bit of skin. If they're not comfortable showing me this, then most likely I would have been disappointed anyway and it's better to end it early.

Remember it's your hard earned money. Yes you may not always get a model 10 girl but that doesn't mean you should roll the dice too much and end up paying money on a homely girl below your standards. Having a girl take a picture holding a sign with your name on it might be a little excessive if you just started chatting. However I think it's a reasonable request if things have advanced far enough and you're getting ready to meet, especially if it requires you to drive a decent distance. And I think it's reasonable to request a full-body picture early on. Often times I'm able to find a full-body pic by doing a FB search or the girl already provides it, so I don't have to request it. But if she's just given me zoomed in face pictures and I can't find a full-body pic by sleuthing, then I'll ask her for one. Especially if they start talking about allowances, then I'll insist on them sending me fully representative (non-nude) pictures. I tell them if they're not ready to be evaluated by their looks, then they're not ready to be a sugar baby.

Yes with me being a little more strict with pics may mean I lose out on a few good ones, but it also means I avoid the definite disappointments (physically speaking). And I only spend my time and money on girls who appeal to my predilections without the bitter after-taste of loose belly fat.

PS. I don't do it often, but a few times I have requested for a girl to take a fresh pic holding a piece of paper. I may do this if my spidy sense tells me the pics she's currently showing may be outdated or sometimes I do it just to test how agreeable she is to such a request and gauge her reaction. Here's a secret tip though. Don't have her write your name. Instead have her write something related to a funny conversation you guys had or hold up a particular object that you guys previously spoke about. That way she sees the picture request as something humorous instead seeing you as being on a power trip. If she's able to re-use the photo for other purposes all the better. You get a custom fresh pic and she doesn't feel like she's being pulled through hoops by a stranger.