Rants, Raves and Opinions AKA "The Octagon"

[WarlockKy]

YES, but IMHO, it's easier to Fake, technically called SPOOF or SPOOFING, a MAC address for a computer than it is for a cellular / mobile phone, HOWEVER, even with MAC address based access controls in place, technically called MAC Filtering, a system can still be hacked, and relatively easily too by pro Hackers. Then, after they gain access to a particular network, the Hackers are able to SPOOF MAC addresses for all kinds of devices including laptops, cell phones, etc., which can result in doing some real damage. When MAC SPOOFING occurs, it pushes the responsibility for any illegal activity onto authentic network users. Consequently, the real offenders quite typically go undetected by LE, which really sucks because the system owner and authorized users are almost always the last to find out -- and they usually find out when the Feds come knocking at the door. --SA007.

Maybe we should set one up.

A hacker does not plan on getting caught with their physical PC or laptop, they intend to use a compromised PC or network (s) for their purposes on any given day.

All of which is beyond the technical capability of 95+% of the guys on USAG.

But hey let's just throw some ideas out for fun since we're playing with low ROI scenarios..

I take my laptop, install VMWare on it and create a Virtual Machine. Then I change the MAC address of the virtual network card (we refer to it as a vnic) to any MAC address I want as long as I have a valid first 6 characters. You would want to use something other than a Microsoft or VMWare MAC because you wouldn't want to give away that you were working on a virtual, so you could appear to be a iPhone, Surface tablet, or just about anything (BTW you can grab the MAC off the outside of a box on the store shelf without ever actually buying the hardware). Now I take a router with DD-WRT on it, put it into bridge mode AND tell it to clone my MAC while I config it from within the VM and then I put it in my laptop bag with a 12 v battery all so that I can go down to some place with an open or easy to access WiFi, jump on that to book an appointment and post on USAG. After that I delete the VM, and because I am truly paranoid I created the VM on a MicroSD card which I then set fire to or even better shoot with a .22 .

Ok, so let's look at what I've done for all that effort..

I've spent quite a bit of time creating the false trail so that I could book an appointment and post on USAG.

AND I've taken what would be at most a misdemeanor and possibly turned it into a felony by violating the Patriot Act in the process (using that non-public easy to access wifi at the local hotel which you happen to have the key / password to).

Just like disaster recovery / business continuity planning it's all a matter of probable scenarios, ROI and a CBA.

[WarlockKy]

I fucking love this thread, I wouldn't have thought about that in a million years. Yeah that would be a GREAT way to spoof your MAC, because you wouldn't be spoofing it.

Because spoofing does leave traces in the registry, local log files and in erased files on the hard drive which is something that LE can find fairly easily.

And yes the burner nic is listed in the registry even after you get rid of it unless you right click on the device and uninstall it first.
If you don't, well it can still be done other ways it just takes a little more work.

This is an old TID but it still applies to WinXP, Vista, 7, 2k3 server, 2k8 server and 2k12 server:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/241257

[WarlockKy]

Great idea, and it's done all the time. Same goes for burner phones. HOWEVER, once again, there are prospective problems to consider and a few obstacles to overcome. . .

First, make sure you wear your Ball Cap with your Wig, Fake Glasses and Big Nose disguise, and then only pay in cash, because the in-store video and credit card data are retrieved all the time by LE. The problem with this approach is that you'll likely be taken to the local yocal's HQ and interrogated for attempted robbery for wearing such an alarming disguise into the store (except if you shop at Walmart. For more information, please Google "People of Walmart" to see some good disguise ideas), or maybe you'll be carted-off to the local nut ward for three days of observation for impersonating BOZO.

Second, as an alternative, you could send one of your so-called trusted friends into the store to buy it for you and, once again, they must use cash only, but, unfortunately, I believe this is a worse option than no. 1 above. When a person chooses to use this option no. 2, and after the proverbial shit hits the fan (and it usually always does), its how LE solves about 80% to 85% of its cases, that is, any time more than one person is involved in anything shaky it usually turns, sooner or later, into something akin to a Mongolian ClusterFuck because the so-called trusted friend inevitably rolls over and cuts a deal to save his / her own ass -- and then refers to you as a dumb fuck for coming up with the idea in the first place. So don't be a dumb fuck! In a really serious situation, never think your so-called trusted friend will remain a trusted friend when he's faced with a choice of either going away for awhile to the big house or giving you up in a heartbeat.

The third and best option, IMHO, is just old-fashioned planning ahead. Purchase all your needed merchandise about 8-12 months in advance of actually needing to use any of it and, as always, only pay for it in cash. By the time you start using your merchandise for whatever purpose you intend to use it, the in-store videos are typically long gone and, since you only used cash, there is no record of you EVER being there -- UNLESS, of course, you're so fucking horny and out-of-control that you actually cause a scene by humping the obese cashier's leg or pulling some other stupid, attention-getting stunt like PeeWee Herman did when he was caught choking his chicken in public.

So much to think (and worry) about, so little time. . . --SA007.

It's all a matter of ROI and chasing down where a piece of hardware was bought and who bought it is not cost effective for a misdemeanor bust (BTW you won't find your MAC on the store receipt since stores don't track MACs, they track serial numbers and what are the odds of getting a company in the PRC to send you the MAC for a specific serial number in a timely fashion).

So purchase from a flea market, or off eBay or Alibaba if you're worried about being on film, order directly from the PRC and get a few burners because hey let's face it if you're going to be in the hobby and can't afford the cost you really shouldn't be playing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-150Mbps...item4d1aaabfbd

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-150Mbps...item4d1aaabfbd

[WarlockKy]

I always feel better if they are out of the country.

Here's the deal though and we kind of keep joking around it. The kind of investigation that this would entail is really fucking expensive. Serious network / security guys go for 150 an hour up. I just don't see the the in Cincy as having budget for it. So much easier, cheaper, faster to take out a fake BP ad or put a police woman on the street. I just don't ever see them cracking a coffee shop's ISP to find some guy looking for a hooker. (Ladies no offence intended with the H word).

The NSA is a different thing, but local Cincy... (correct use of an ellipse) I just don't see it.

A2.

And a good network security guy actually bills out at closer to $300/ hr.

Chasing MAC addresses etc for a client is a low return for dollars spent kind of investigation that you're more likely to find a PI or media outlet doing. Usually this kind of thing is only worthwhile if you become a target due to something outside the hobby (say money laundering, bribery, extortion).

However, chasing an agency or trafficker that crosses state lines allows the use of Federal money and is the kind of worthwhile target that generates press for multiple LE departments and politicians, not to mention being able to apply for higher LEA grants the following year.

It's a all a matter of ROI just like business.

[Rudiger]

...pulling some other stupid, attention-getting stunt like PeeWee Herman did when he was caught choking his chicken in public.

To be fair, poor ole Paul Reubens was in an adult theater when he got nabbed. Geez, did the Sarasota cops really have nothing better to do that day than bust lonely pervs jerking off to Sandra Scream in 'Nurse Nancy' in the dark shadows of the seats in a porn movie theater? Considering the extreme stuff the cops do in that town (late in 2012, they arrested and threw a homeless guy in jail for charging his cellphone at a public park), it sounds every bit as bad as Cincinnati.

I wonder if Sarasota is where Sy Leis went after he retired; he'd sure fit in.

[Admin2]

Personnel VPN's seem to be coming down in price. Does anyone know if they help in hiding an identity? Just bought a USB networking card after reading these items

Bobby.

I always feel better if they are out of the country.

Here's the deal though and we kind of keep joking around it. The kind of investigation that this would entail is really fucking expensive. Serious network / security guys go for 150 an hour up. I just don't see the the in Cincy as having budget for it. So much easier, cheaper, faster to take out a fake BP ad or put a police woman on the street. I just don't ever see them cracking a coffee shop's ISP to find some guy looking for a hooker. (Ladies no offence intended with the H word).

The NSA is a different thing, but local Cincy... (correct use of an ellipse) I just don't see it.

A2.

[Bobby1862]

I fucking love this thread, I wouldn't have thought about that in a million years. Yeah that would be a GREAT way to spoof your MAC, because you wouldn't be spoofing it.

Personnel VPN's seem to be coming down in price. Does anyone know if they help in hiding an identity? Just bought a USB networking card after reading these items

Bobby.

[SilkyWetness]

Skanky is making a comeback since that Breaking Bad episode.

Well in that case I can only think of a couple skanky hos I wouldn't give to my worse enemy LOL this is the phrase of the day skanky ho o hell no.

Sorry I'm bored it gave me a good laugh.

[Admin2]

BTW, a really easy way to help cover your MAC address tracks is to use a burner wireless network card rather than the one built into the laptop, you can get cheap ones for $20 at MicroCenter and toss them or use them based on your needs.

I fucking love this thread, I wouldn't have thought about that in a million years. Yeah that would be a GREAT way to spoof your MAC, because you wouldn't be spoofing it.

[Member #4483]

BTW, a really easy way to help cover your MAC address tracks is to use a burner wireless network card rather than the one built into the laptop, you can get cheap ones for $20 at MicroCenter and toss them or use them based on your needs.

Great idea, and it's done all the time. Same goes for burner phones. HOWEVER, once again, there are prospective problems to consider and a few obstacles to overcome. . .

First, make sure you wear your Ball Cap with your Wig, Fake Glasses and Big Nose disguise, and then only pay in cash, because the in-store video and credit card data are retrieved all the time by LE. The problem with this approach is that you'll likely be taken to the local yocal's HQ and interrogated for attempted robbery for wearing such an alarming disguise into the store (except if you shop at Walmart. For more information, please Google "People of Walmart" to see some good disguise ideas), or maybe you'll be carted-off to the local nut ward for three days of observation for impersonating BOZO.

Second, as an alternative, you could send one of your so-called trusted friends into the store to buy it for you and, once again, they must use cash only, but, unfortunately, I believe this is a worse option than no. 1 above. When a person chooses to use this option no. 2, and after the proverbial shit hits the fan (and it usually always does), its how LE solves about 80% to 85% of its cases, that is, any time more than one person is involved in anything shaky it usually turns, sooner or later, into something akin to a Mongolian ClusterFuck because the so-called trusted friend inevitably rolls over and cuts a deal to save his / her own ass -- and then refers to you as a dumb fuck for coming up with the idea in the first place. So don't be a dumb fuck! In a really serious situation, never think your so-called trusted friend will remain a trusted friend when he's faced with a choice of either going away for awhile to the big house or giving you up in a heartbeat.

The third and best option, IMHO, is just old-fashioned planning ahead. Purchase all your needed merchandise about 8-12 months in advance of actually needing to use any of it and, as always, only pay for it in cash. By the time you start using your merchandise for whatever purpose you intend to use it, the in-store videos are typically long gone and, since you only used cash, there is no record of you EVER being there -- UNLESS, of course, you're so fucking horny and out-of-control that you actually cause a scene by humping the obese cashier's leg or pulling some other stupid, attention-getting stunt like PeeWee Herman did when he was caught choking his chicken in public.

So much to think (and worry) about, so little time. . . --SA007.

[Dmaphukn]

LOL I didn't know grown men used the term skanky ho anymore I thought only guys in high school still said that.

Skanky is making a comeback since that Breaking Bad episode.

[Member #4483]

You could spoof your MAC address and also use raw sockets (get your mind off of sex for just a moment guys), something that IT hates in general when users try to do it since it screws up our traditional way of tracking someone.

Hence the reason that many companies are now using MAC address based access control. It not only provides better security but also lets you zero in on those trying to do things they are not supposed to.

BTW, a really easy way to help cover your MAC address tracks is to use a burner wireless network card rather than the one built into the laptop, you can get cheap ones for $20 at MicroCenter and toss them or use them based on your needs.

YES, but IMHO, it's easier to Fake, technically called SPOOF or SPOOFING, a MAC address for a computer than it is for a cellular / mobile phone, HOWEVER, even with MAC address based access controls in place, technically called MAC Filtering, a system can still be hacked, and relatively easily too by pro Hackers. Then, after they gain access to a particular network, the Hackers are able to SPOOF MAC addresses for all kinds of devices including laptops, cell phones, etc., which can result in doing some real damage. When MAC SPOOFING occurs, it pushes the responsibility for any illegal activity onto authentic network users. Consequently, the real offenders quite typically go undetected by LE, which really sucks because the system owner and authorized users are almost always the last to find out -- and they usually find out when the Feds come knocking at the door. --SA007.

[WarlockKy]

Gentlemen, the bottom line is that most local / county / state LE departments would have no idea what's being discussed with regard to a MAC address, etc., and it's highly likely they don't even care about trying to obtain such information. Think about it, it's really hard to request, demand, or otherwise investigate information that they don't even know exists, or what to do with it if they were to get it -- besides all that, obtaining a MAC address (which can be faked) does NOT, in fact, meet the burden of proof for proving anything. If a "pop quiz" were given right now, most local / county / state officers would fail, that is, would not be able to explain anything A2 said -- it's all Greek to them. YES, there are exceptions to every rule BUT, for the most part, at least in terms of right now today, they simply have no training or understanding of most tech issues. They are more concerned with obtaining "video" because it's something they understand and almost every establishment has it.

The Feds, however, are a completely different matter; they get it and they know it -- forwards, backwards, and sideways -- they are true tech gurus, for the most part. Fortunately, though, they are primarily concerned with "real" and serious crimes, not victimless local vice BS like pussy being for sale (where they really don't have any jurisdiction, unless it violates some federal law, and 99%+ of this hobby does not). I mean, after all, lest we forget anytime soon, it is a well-known fact that even Secret Service agents need and want to get laid periodically! Who doesn't, really! --SA007.

You could spoof your MAC address and also use raw sockets (get your mind off of sex for just a moment guys), something that IT hates in general when users try to do it since it screws up our traditional way of tracking someone.

Hence the reason that many companies are now using MAC address based access control. It not only provides better security but also lets you zero in on those trying to do things they are not supposed to.

BTW, a really easy way to help cover your MAC address tracks is to use a burner wireless network card rather than the one built into the laptop, you can get cheap ones for $20 at MicroCenter and toss them or use them based on your needs.

[Admin2]

besides all that, obtaining a MAC address (which can be faked)

I did not know you could do that. So to my other post I amend, download the app to spoof your MAC address and you're bullet proof.

A2.

[SilkyWetness]

LOL I didn't know grown men used the term skanky ho anymore I thought only guys in high school still said that.