"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[AliasSM]

It's been a while since I last posted because I have been settled into a rotation of 4-5 regulars and haven't had to deal with any real drama in a relatively long time. Something happened to me today though that is causing some frustration and I need some expert advice.

I had a date set up with a 22 yr old college SB that I have been with 3 or 4 times before. She is one of the most sane and stable SBs that I have been with to date. She txts me around noon today to tell me that someone called her, mentioned my first name, and told her to quit seeing me.

Now I am pretty good about keeping my cell locked down and nobody has access to it anyway except my SO. The only way to get my SBs cell number would be for someone to hack into my cell. I don't know anybody that has that skill set. My SB claims that her cell in also locked down tight and that the caller has to be someone that I know. If my SO knew about my SB, she would have confronted me directly. Calling my SB directly would not be her style.

I use Google messaging exclusively to communicate with my SB. My question to the forum is: How hard is it to back into someone's google voice account and see a record of the txt message history. I'm totally baffled about who could have called her. My other 4 SBs never have access to my cell and would have no way of knowing her number.

Any help in figuring this out would be greatly appreciated. This SB is too good to lose, and she is so spooked right now that I may never be able to see her again. It would be too bad to see this relationship end due to a single phone call.

[Jwredskins55]

Give us a little more info, like: what were the circumstances of your prior relationship? GF? Mistress? Did she have an emotional connection --in love? How many years apart are you? She live in the same town? What is your flexibility to see her --and where?

I was her dominant and she was my submissive so it was a very sexual relationship. Definitely not my gf so there are no romantic notions between either of us. We are really good friends. We get along well and we just mesh very well together. Obviously my current sig other doesn't know about her. I'm late 20's and she just turned 21. We live in the same town so playing together won't be a problem plus we already have hooked up many times before. My current play is to get her to see the benefits of not worrying about the fact that I'm not single and showing her that I care about her and that's why I want her to be financially stable. Or more financially stable than she currently is.

[JZLizard]

Hey gents. I've been a longtime viewer of this thread and I love it. Cheers to you all. I need a little help. I've got this amazing beautiful young thing that I used to play with back in the day. We've kept in touch over the years and I e been itching to get back in between if you know what I mean. She has refused me mainly bc I'm now in a relationship even though she would love to. In one of our recent convos she was complaining about her job and how much she works like she has in the past. I took this as an opportunity to mention a sb / sd arrangement. It took her completely by surprise and she said she would never do something like that and that she wouldn't want to feel like a hooker. But after some gentle talk about how I want to help her out and it would make me happy to know she's not killing herself for no money I think I've got her on the hook. Now I've never done this before as far as a long term sb. Long time longer but never this. Any tips on how to feel her in?

Since you had a sexual relationship with her in the past, it sounds like a relatively low-challenge situation, and I would basically approach that scenario with low-risk jokes about helping each other out -- for example when she complains about work, make some comments about how you two find yourselves in such a bind, her work stress and your desire for a little variety, if only two good buddies like you guys could find a harmonious solution? Semi-flirty but always in jest / tongue in cheek, so that if she gets remotely offended its easy to play off.

The one part I see that may be a bit of a challenge is that from what you said, she's not complaining about lack of funds. If she were, I'd say she is possibly actually already initiating the process with you, but it sounds she's not complaining about paying the bills as much as overall workload / job stress. That could be a hurdle, because a SD relationship does not provide a solution to that, in fact it requires more of her time which she might not have enough of. I'd approach carefully and find out if lack of funds is the issue before really tackling the advice in above paragraph.

[FredMoore]

Hey gents. I've been a longtime viewer of this thread and I love it. Cheers to you all. I need a little help. I've got this amazing beautiful young thing that I used to play with back in the day. We've kept in touch over the years and I e been itching to get back in between if you know what I mean. She has refused me mainly bc I'm now in a relationship even though she would love to. In one of our recent convos she was complaining about her job and how much she works like she has in the past. I took this as an opportunity to mention a sb / sd arrangement. It took her completely by surprise and she said she would never do something like that and that she wouldn't want to feel like a hooker. But after some gentle talk about how I want to help her out and it would make me happy to know she's not killing herself for no money I think I've got her on the hook. Now I've never done this before as far as a long term sb. Long time longer but never this. Any tips on how to feel her in?

Give us a little more info, like: what were the circumstances of your prior relationship? GF? Mistress? Did she have an emotional connection --in love? How many years apart are you? She live in the same town? What is your flexibility to see her --and where?

[Jwredskins55]

Hey gents. I've been a longtime viewer of this thread and I love it. Cheers to you all. I need a little help. I've got this amazing beautiful young thing that I used to play with back in the day. We've kept in touch over the years and I e been itching to get back in between if you know what I mean. She has refused me mainly bc I'm now in a relationship even though she would love to. In one of our recent convos she was complaining about her job and how much she works like she has in the past. I took this as an opportunity to mention a sb / sd arrangement. It took her completely by surprise and she said she would never do something like that and that she wouldn't want to feel like a hooker. But after some gentle talk about how I want to help her out and it would make me happy to know she's not killing herself for no money I think I've got her on the hook. Now I've never done this before as far as a long term sb. Long time longer but never this. Any tips on how to feel her in?

[JZLizard]

That is a little harsh. LOL. I just let them know what I expect, but every girl is different. Some have amazing banging skills, some have insane oral abilities, or they may be super submissive, but if I add up all the things I like or would want, it's an almost impossible list. So I try to get the best of whatever it is they have to offer. If I,m not getting my minimum daily requirement I go silent. Or I might see 2 different girls in one day to get it all.

Agreed, and I never mention a specific skill they need to do well or anything. Good sex can come in many forms. I just make sure I send them lots of photos of myself that give a fair representation, and I say "well you now have a really good idea what I look like, so you already know if you're attracted or not or you'll know it for sure within the first minutes of meeting". From there on out my only expectation is enthusiasm, which should come natural if she's liking me. I can't stand the thought that some potential SDs get worked into spending tons of cash and get either bad / apathetic sex or none at all. Nobody should pay anything for that.

[JZLizard]

Great comments Jeez. I agree I set the expectations and if they don't live up to them I am gone. But I have never told them they will not get paid. Seems a little harsh to me. I have often thought about offering better rewards for better performance but I have decided that is just too mercenary on my end. And goes contrary to what I am looking for. I am looking for a quality experience with an emotional component to it. I want someone I can be close to and have a long term relationship.

And I am all about the issue of certain cities being so mercenary. I am in s Fla. And I can tell you it is really bad down here. But there are always little gems hiding in there. Not many and man they are really hard to find and to snare. But they are there.

In fact I may have stumble across a couple of them recently after much pain. Time will tell.

Revvo.

I should probably clarify about telling them they will not get paid -- obviously if the conversation gets to the point where I have to say that, I've probably already marked her off the list in terms of meeting in person, so by that time it's no loss for her or for me. It's just that every now and then you run across one that believes her pussy is the most valuable vag on the planet, and it comes across in her attitude, so I just make it clear that daddy needs to get his money's worth if baby wants allowance, but as far as how tactfully I actually word that, well it varies based individual and is usually not done in a way that would reflect badly on me. Even when things go badly, I try to make sure I wrap things up the same way I would a conflict situation in a business environment -- in a way that wouldn't hurt my reputation if someone else asked her about her interactions with me after the fact. Walk away from each one under the assumption they are reviewing you somewhere on a website As they say, it's not what you say as much as how you say it that, and if I'm trying to get the girl to warm up to me for a meeting I will get the point across gently and with charm, whereas if I'm trying to push her away I'll be a little colder and firmer about it.

The time I use this tactic most is when I get these who come right out and say (sometimes in their profile) that absolutely unconditionally no sex on the first date. My philosophy is that the chemistry is either present or its not, and adding ritualistic rules to what happens or in this case cannot happen on the first date is an instant deal breaker for me. It's amazing how many of them come back and say "well I didn't really mean I'm not open to it, I just wanted to filter out pervs" etc.

And yes, you're right on about South Florida, some of them are real lookers but the attitude is a bit too much sometimes. I just assumed that's because there's so much money/drugs around Miami that they are used to making more money than girls elsewhere (thus inflated ego)?

[HollywoodGuy]

Great comments Jeez. I agree I set the expectations and if they don't live up to them I am gone. But I have never told them they will not get paid. Seems a little harsh to me. I have often thought about offering better rewards for better performance but I have decided that is just too mercenary on my end. And goes contrary to what I am looking for. I am looking for a quality experience with an emotional component to it. I want someone I can be close to and have a long term relationship.

And I am all about the issue of certain cities being so mercenary. I am in s Fla. And I can tell you it is really bad down here. But there are always little gems hiding in there. Not many and man they are really hard to find and to snare. But they are there.

In fact I may have stumble across a couple of them recently after much pain. Time will tell.

Revvo.

That is a little harsh. LOL. I just let them know what I expect, but every girl is different. Some have amazing banging skills, some have insane oral abilities, or they may be super submissive, but if I add up all the things I like or would want, it's an almost impossible list. So I try to get the best of whatever it is they have to offer. If I,m not getting my minimum daily requirement I go silent. Or I might see 2 different girls in one day to get it all.

[Revvo]

There are gluttons for punishment anywhere, and the millionaire guy you described sounds like someone with a mommy complex that wants a woman to tell him what to do instead of a daddy wanting a baby. Maybe we are all a little broken, whatever --I guess everyone has the own fetishes, but I won't tolerate less than spectacular sex, and if I'm not satisfied (to whatever I define satisfy to mean on a per-visit basis), she won't be paid. I will tell her that before hand so there is no disappointment on either of our part, all of fair play.

If I wanted to be the patsy I'm pretty sure they have websites for submissive males to be controlled by females. But it's not going to be me. I have noticed a geographical variation in various SB attitudes, after a while you can almost predict it by city. It can range from "so how much is my allowance" out of her mouth in the first five minutes, to meeting a genuinely sweet girl that displays a kindness you can respect and brings out the best in you.

Great comments Jeez. I agree I set the expectations and if they don't live up to them I am gone. But I have never told them they will not get paid. Seems a little harsh to me. I have often thought about offering better rewards for better performance but I have decided that is just too mercenary on my end. And goes contrary to what I am looking for. I am looking for a quality experience with an emotional component to it. I want someone I can be close to and have a long term relationship.

And I am all about the issue of certain cities being so mercenary. I am in s Fla. And I can tell you it is really bad down here. But there are always little gems hiding in there. Not many and man they are really hard to find and to snare. But they are there.

In fact I may have stumble across a couple of them recently after much pain. Time will tell.

Revvo.

[HollywoodGuy]

I send my form letter to all age girls. By far the most response I get is from the 19 to 22 range. Either I am really immature, too cheap or just like to KISS.

[JZLizard]

If you have been reading any of my posts for the last few months. You know I somewhat of a theory about what I consider one of the illnesses of our society the "hot chick" she is a special concoction of the times we live in. Completely self absorbed, selfish, and self centered, all at the same time. Inconsiderate, aloof mean, and no value to anyone other than their looks. And sadly enough pursued by both women and men. Well today I had a M&G with a really awesome young lady who is very good looking ans sexy and interesting, and not a hot chick, but her friend is a hot chick and got her SD from the SDforme site.

So she proceeded to tell me the insiders view of this particular hot chick. First I have to say that my girl or soon to be girl. Is really cool and down to earth and does not approve of the whole hot chick thing.

So a couple of things she told me. Her friend met her guy online and within two months, she had this idiot millionaire dude spend over $20 k on her. She demands that every time they meet from the first time to the last he must give her a gift including the money. She does not give him head, does not do anything fun in the sack, no experimental stuff, only one pop per session. He is a busy man, but if she texts him and he does not text back. She gets mad and gives him shit. What would possess a mature successful very wealthy man to put up with this shit? Looks? Thats it. Are you fucking kidding me?

I think I would go celibate before I ever ever put up with that shit. Now don't get me wrong I have had these pots and babies treat me wrong more than once. But at least I don't stick around. I am out of there.

Anyway when she complained to my girl about her SD not texting her back right away, my girl told her to just look at her $900 boots.

Amazingly no one talks about this. And it is like a disease in our society.

Thats a view from the other side of the bowl.

Revvo.

There are gluttons for punishment anywhere, and the millionaire guy you described sounds like someone with a mommy complex that wants a woman to tell him what to do instead of a daddy wanting a baby. Maybe we are all a little broken, whatever --I guess everyone has the own fetishes, but I won't tolerate less than spectacular sex, and if I'm not satisfied (to whatever I define satisfy to mean on a per-visit basis), she won't be paid. I will tell her that before hand so there is no disappointment on either of our part, all of fair play.

If I wanted to be the patsy I'm pretty sure they have websites for submissive males to be controlled by females. But it's not going to be me. I have noticed a geographical variation in various SB attitudes, after a while you can almost predict it by city. It can range from "so how much is my allowance" out of her mouth in the first five minutes, to meeting a genuinely sweet girl that displays a kindness you can respect and brings out the best in you.

[Revvo]

You need to look for some better girls. LOL. Am I deluded into thinking I am all that?. No. Do I think all these girls are naive angels? Hardly. But when I have a girl I know for a fact is being exclusive to me, and see her turning down way way more money than I could ever pay (especially when they cant pay their bills), then yes, I do feel special.

Part of the thrill is getting with first timers. Do they stay that way for long? It varies. (my princess stripper is a first timer and lasted a year so far)(try getting her to grind on you at the club, you will be sorely disappointed). Laugh all you want but I know what I am talking about. But dont compare a teenager sticking her toe in the water for the first time with a seasoned pro. In the past I have dated pros for free. How is that possible you may ask. Everyone needs a break. And people have different needs from time to time. So anything is possible out there. I am down for all of it but lean towards the exclusive relationships even if the girls are serial monogamists.

Does being tall, dark and handsome. Living in the hollywood hills and driving a luxury sports car. And having a big dick that stays hard till they say daddy hurt my ability to get quality girls in spite of my paltry offers that barely cover a cel phone bill? Who knows.

This is a topic that is very nuanced and could go on forever. I dont agree or disagree. Its just my perspective. At least we get what we pay for (sexually that is), not like a wife or so called civi girlfriend that can say no whenever they want. And how much do they cost? I'd rather be with a first round draft pick than a girlfriend, professional golddigger, SO, SW, escort, UTR or AMP girl any day (excluding my roommate who I worship like a goddess in spite of her many followers). Also letting my POTS know I have multiple regulars really amps up the competition. Or totally turns them off. Either way its a win for me. For me its all about control. The more in control I am, the harder my dick gets. The moment I see that control slipping I know its time to move on. And pardon the rambling.

Good points Hollywood. So many shades of grey to the relationships between men and women and money. And I wanted to add one more point and this has to do with the theory that removing the money from the equation and then see how long a woman will stick around. Of course this is true. But it begs why is the woman attracted to the man. And I do not believe it is crass to understand that one of the main reasons women are attracted to men is for their money.

Well a couple of things. If I stopped giving my wife money she would not stick around either. As would most wives. Lets face it even in our modern society women still mainly expect men to earn the money and men mainly expect women to provide the sex and take care of the children. Regardless of if it is on a sugar web site or not.

The other point is that the whole point of the sugar equation is an expectation and when you remove the sugar you are reneging on your side of the equation or your side of the deal. Just like if a woman removed sex from the equation but still wants to be in a relationship with you and pay her after you already had an agreement. How long would you stick around? It is just part of the deal. Change the deal and it takes away trust. Where is the relationship after that?

We need them and they need us for different reasons. But still we need each other. Take away one of the reasons they need us and you ruin the relationship.

Revvo.

[HollywoodGuy]

This fits the common view of the board that a sugar baby represents a different kind of pay for play, the sugar baby being held in higher regard. I think this view is driven more by the image we hold of ourselves just as our image of self impacts the car we buy. Sugar baby is just a better fit for our image of self. I seem to be the only one saying the term sugar baby is a distinction without a difference. In all pay for play we pick out the girl, we pay the girl, we are one of several men doing the same thing with her and but for that she would be long gone. Better stated, she would never enter the door in the first place. We kid ourselves thinking otherwise. And about the girls being so turned on having sex with us, let's stop dolling out the dollars and see how that works.

You need to look for some better girls. LOL. Am I deluded into thinking I am all that?. No. Do I think all these girls are naive angels? Hardly. But when I have a girl I know for a fact is being exclusive to me, and see her turning down way way more money than I could ever pay (especially when they cant pay their bills), then yes, I do feel special.

Part of the thrill is getting with first timers. Do they stay that way for long? It varies. (my princess stripper is a first timer and lasted a year so far)(try getting her to grind on you at the club, you will be sorely disappointed). Laugh all you want but I know what I am talking about. But dont compare a teenager sticking her toe in the water for the first time with a seasoned pro. In the past I have dated pros for free. How is that possible you may ask. Everyone needs a break. And people have different needs from time to time. So anything is possible out there. I am down for all of it but lean towards the exclusive relationships even if the girls are serial monogamists.

Does being tall, dark and handsome. Living in the hollywood hills and driving a luxury sports car. And having a big dick that stays hard till they say daddy hurt my ability to get quality girls in spite of my paltry offers that barely cover a cel phone bill? Who knows.

This is a topic that is very nuanced and could go on forever. I dont agree or disagree. Its just my perspective. At least we get what we pay for (sexually that is), not like a wife or so called civi girlfriend that can say no whenever they want. And how much do they cost? I'd rather be with a first round draft pick than a girlfriend, professional golddigger, SO, SW, escort, UTR or AMP girl any day (excluding my roommate who I worship like a goddess in spite of her many followers). Also letting my POTS know I have multiple regulars really amps up the competition. Or totally turns them off. Either way its a win for me. For me its all about control. The more in control I am, the harder my dick gets. The moment I see that control slipping I know its time to move on. And pardon the rambling.

[Golfcart]

A prostitute is a girl that takes money in exchange for sex from multiple men she is unattracted to, and engages in sex acts that do not turn her on. (and may have items not on the menu that may seem quite normal to you)

A sugar baby is a girl that is compensated for her time by men (usually one at a time) that she is attracted to... And only has sex that she is turned on by. (but will usually do things out of her comfort zone to please her man)

This fits the common view of the board that a sugar baby represents a different kind of pay for play, the sugar baby being held in higher regard. I think this view is driven more by the image we hold of ourselves just as our image of self impacts the car we buy. Sugar baby is just a better fit for our image of self. I seem to be the only one saying the term sugar baby is a distinction without a difference. In all pay for play we pick out the girl, we pay the girl, we are one of several men doing the same thing with her and but for that she would be long gone. Better stated, she would never enter the door in the first place. We kid ourselves thinking otherwise. And about the girls being so turned on having sex with us, let's stop dolling out the dollars and see how that works.

[Golfcart]

An Insiders View Into A "Hot Chick"

If you have been reading any of my posts for the last few months. You know I somewhat of a theory about what I consider one of the illnesses of our society the "hot chick" she is a special concoction of the times we live in. Completely self absorbed, selfish, and self centered, all at the same time. Inconsiderate, aloof mean, and no value to anyone other than their looks. And sadly enough pursued by both women and men. Well today I had a M&G with a really awesome young lady who is very good looking ans sexy and interesting, and not a hot chick, but her friend is a hot chick and got her SD from the SDforme site.

So she proceeded to tell me the insiders view of this particular hot chick. First I have to say that my girl or soon to be girl. Is really cool and down to earth and does not approve of the whole hot chick thing.

So a couple of things she told me. Her friend met her guy online and within two months, she had this idiot millionaire dude spend over $20 k on her. She demands that every time they meet from the first time to the last he must give her a gift including the money. She does not give him head, does not do anything fun in the sack, no experimental stuff, only one pop per session. He is a busy man, but if she texts him and he does not text back. She gets mad and gives him shit. What would possess a mature successful very wealthy man to put up with this shit? Looks? Thats it. Are you fucking kidding me?

* * * Revvo.

Sounds like the millionaire businessman has a hot chick he can lay whenever he wants, getting what he wants, doesn't worry about the cost and pays no attention to the girl when he's busy, knowing she can't do anything about it. Sounds like the millionaire holds the power in this relationship as I expect he would. Sounds like the girl Revvo met at the M&G might be a bit jealous as women tend to be.