"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[Walruscl]

Wow, WTF? What kind of scumbag would do that? I mean really, even if the SD was sincere (which is a stretch), there are all sorts of reasons for either party to want to bail. In which case the SD goes his merry way and the SB is out of a job.

Hopefully she was smart enough to see through that before too much damage occurred.

Just, wow.

Very true. The 19 yod that I had the M&G with said that the first guy she met made LOTS of promises and never delivered. Told her to quit her job and he'd cover her with an allowance which never materialized.

[Walruscl]

What's interesting about this is the different experiences and perspectives we bring. BigTigger you are one of the superstars, and seem to have pretty much done and seen it all. So you've seen the types of SB's for which full disclosure would be suicide. Understandable then that would be just somewhere you'd never want to go.

In my short experience, I've come across one UTR, a pair of seemingly-harmless MILFs that I just couldn't quite get comfortable with, a HCB that also seemed "off" and then I think got cold feet, a number of GPS's the were stillborn early, and another young MILF that was almost to closing the deal when I overreacted to a situation that really didn't seem right.

On the last one, I'm still not sure whether it was an overreaction or my BS detector being turned up and actually getting a positive reading. I know that when I did more due diligence, she hadn't done sufficient deep cover to prevent me from finding her Facebook page. What I found there was disturbing enough that I'm glad it fell through. Even if it had proceeded, I don't think I ever would have had an inclination to break cover with her.

With my current (and yes, only) SB, I just got none of those vibes at all. Hopefully my usually-reliable judge of personality is still on target.

I'm glad to hear the insights. It's sounding like the community opinion is that while it was a really risky thing to do, breaking cover with the right SB is not automatically fatal.

Now that is something that I would never do. Now mind you, that list is very short, but it's definitely on there. I will say this out of all the ones I've been with. 4, I have given my real info to and 2 have gotten it either by taking advantage of minimal information I gave them or by being sneaky and going through my items.

One case she decided she didn't want to continue and in the other case she was my extorionist! I will give my first

BT.

[LoriTruck]

Any SD's near Louisville, KY message me asap for a potential gold mine.

[BikeRider]

I thought I'd post a short bit on doing SB diligence.

I've seen several posts where brothers have google'd names, phone numbers, email addresses, and images as part of their diligence process. This is easy with Spokeo and a number of other services. Another aspect of diligence is determining if your SB is really where she says she is. I've caught more than a few on AM who were half-way around the world from where they say they were located.

Yahoo right now is the only major email system where you can trace the sender's IP address. Although, I've noticed that some times even Yahoo is now blocking the sender's IP. What isn't widely known is that you can easily geo-locate with Skype. Just google 'skype resolver' and you'll see a few web sites listed. I use skype2ip. Org myself. Skype has a little known issue where you can usually determine a user name's last IP address. This easily gives you the location via any number of geo-location databases. Skype2IP has a link you hit and brings up a map.

One important point is that the geo-location of the IP address some times isn't all that accurate. It may point the main office of Comcast or Verizon at times. If that happens, there are other ways to verify a general location with an IP address. If there's, interest I can post more info.

The most important aspect though is to remember that this can be done to YOU just as easily. This is the main reason why I VPN (Witopia or PIA) ALL of the time. $70 / yr is cheap insurance.

BR

[BikeRider]

Flakes have a direct correlation to young new listers. I have lost 3 18 to 19 yr olds in the last month. I swore I wouldn't do teens anymore but they are so irresistible. The new posters get a huge amount of attention from us all. We all know to jump on them fast and hard. Also for me it is nice to break one in if she is truly naive. The scenario is probably the same for us all. You chat them up quickly and text back and forth. Then you make a M&G appointment all within a week. The day of the meet she goes silent. 3 times I tell you this month! Everything seems perfect and she says she is excited to meet, and boom! Gone. I agree with Hollywood that you have got to meet them in the first day or two. They get cold feet, get a million other offers, and blow you off. Many of them come back around because they find the grass is not greener with the fantastical offers. Mr Big bangs them and moves on. Those of us who are looking for longer term SBs have to wait out the flush before they circle back around.

Very true. The 19 yod that I had the M&G with said that the first guy she met made LOTS of promises and never delivered. Told her to quit her job and he'd cover her with an allowance which never materialized. She said almost didn't come back to the site, but decided to do so one last time. We're still in contact I've switched to a longer game just in case she doesn't go to NYC.

[BikeRider]

I feel you on the Flakes brother. I have always been the want it here now, and I want more type of person. So flakes have been a great character builder for me.

They have always frustrated me. I was on SA but found too many crazies and pros. I prefer SDFORme but the flake factor can be high. The younger the higher the flakes, the hotter the higher the flakes, the newer to the game the higher the flakes. Many times it is just a hot chick getting a better offer. Imagine what it would be like if you were young beautiful immature and guys were making you all kinds of offers all over the place. What would you do?

It is a challenge. I have fucked a lot of them and still go into phases where they just don't seem to respond well. So yes tune up your game. Stay confident and remember. There will be another 100 more babies on that site tomorrow. And the next day and the next.

I need to learn more from Hollywood on qualifying and getting that part right.

Good luck. Keep writing.

Revvo

Well said on all points. We call can learn from Hollywood.

Interestingly enough the 26 yod that vanished reappeared last night. Evidently an emergency back home (west coast). She broke her Google Voice cloak and txt'd me from her real phone number so I'm pretty sure its legit.

The other bonus here is she's not looking for sugar. She has a professional job, her own condo, and car. She just wants a little romance and passion without complications.

[BigTigger]

Now that is something that I would never do. Now mind you, that list is very short, but it's definitely on there. I will say this out of all the ones I've been with. 4, I have given my real info to and 2 have gotten it either by taking advantage of minimal information I gave them or by being sneaky and going through my items.

One case she decided she didn't want to continue and in the other case she was my extorionist! I will give my first

BT.

Well, as I said, I wouldn't recommend that anyone follow my footsteps. But your insights are worthwhile and helpful, and your good luck with previous SB's is reassuring.

Waiting for an argument is a good idea. I did a rather pale imitation of that during our heart-to-heart, where I asked her what her reaction would be if I told her right now that I wasn't able to continue the relationship. While it's not as good as the argument litmus test, the response I got seemed sincere and was reassuring.

As for showing where I lived, there were at least short-term reasons to do that. And long-term, once she knew my rather unique last name, everything about me is a quick Google away. Since there would be very little uncertainty, I opted for trust-building in hopes that when eventually things wind down, it's a soft landing.

Also good advice is to bring things to closure on friendly terms. Failing that, she will be vulnerable to my knowledge of her personal history for some time to come. The calculated risk is that by the time that leverage fades, so would any interest on her part to make trouble for me.

I'll be the first to admit that I may very well come to regret this decision. Should that come to pass, I can only hope that it will be in the form of stress and damage control rather than the triggering of a thermonuclear event.

But as you say, the risks are plenty, and comfort zones vary.

Thanks much for offering your insights. Wish me luck.

[Walruscl]

Well, as I said, I wouldn't recommend that anyone follow my footsteps. But your insights are worthwhile and helpful, and your good luck with previous SB's is reassuring.

Waiting for an argument is a good idea. I did a rather pale imitation of that during our heart-to-heart, where I asked her what her reaction would be if I told her right now that I wasn't able to continue the relationship. While it's not as good as the argument litmus test, the response I got seemed sincere and was reassuring.

As for showing where I lived, there were at least short-term reasons to do that. And long-term, once she knew my rather unique last name, everything about me is a quick Google away. Since there would be very little uncertainty, I opted for trust-building in hopes that when eventually things wind down, it's a soft landing.

Also good advice is to bring things to closure on friendly terms. Failing that, she will be vulnerable to my knowledge of her personal history for some time to come. The calculated risk is that by the time that leverage fades, so would any interest on her part to make trouble for me.

I'll be the first to admit that I may very well come to regret this decision. Should that come to pass, I can only hope that it will be in the form of stress and damage control rather than the triggering of a thermonuclear event.

But as you say, the risks are plenty, and comfort zones vary.

Thanks much for offering your insights. Wish me luck.

Walruscl. Yes, it's been mentioned that with Long Term SBs, it's very likely they'll eventually find out your real identity. Either there will be a slip-up on your part, hotel receipts, car registration, and etc or you'll just flat out tell her. If you know her personality type (a non-vindictive person) and there's mutually assured destruction, then disclosing IDs can be a non-lethal risk. And you really shouldn't do such disclosures until you've had your first argument, so you know how she acts when she's agitated or upset with you. And even then, I wouldn't show my LT SB directly where I live / work. I'll still let her try to figure it out, so there's some degree of uncertainty.

I've had three SBs know my real identity. Two were long-term SBs and one was a resourceful Pot SB who found a chink in my cover. With the two LT SBs I never had any problems and I had a lot of info on them as well. With one of them we've remained good friends and I know she would never do anything to harm me or my family. I had some info on the Pot SB, but I wasn't really comfortable with that situation so I quietly let her lose interest in me.

Once you cross the line and a SB knows your identity, then you MUST make sure when the arrangement / relationship ends that it's mostly on good terms. And even if the breakup is a bit rocky initially, you need to make sure you smooth things over within a couple of months so there's no lingering bitterness. After all, once a SB knows your identity she can theoretically pop into your life unannounced at a moment's notice at any time. A month from now or 2-3 years from now. And you never know, a nice girl today could end up being a Nando1 a few years from now. That's why so many guys here say NEVER blow your cover because there's no going back. There will always be a liability hanging out there.

That said, I totally feel you about the headaches of basically maintaining two covers. It's why despite the advice in this thread, once I'm with a LT SB who I trust more or less, I let her know my real name and do limited disclosures. It just makes my time together with her a lot more relaxing and less stressful. Generally with a LT SB, I may spend the whole day with them and it's just much easier not having to hide hotel bills, paying for alcohol, watching how I refer to myself in conversations, and etc. It's a definite risk, but we're all taking risks when we enter this lifestyle. It's just about the type of risks you're comfortable with accepting and avoiding unnecessary risks. The latter is subjective though. One man's necessary risk is another man's foolish errand.

[Dog Rice]

Hernando bro,

I hear you, bro. Last month, I scored none. Zero SB. Got tons of text / mails. Similar to you, I messaged them first day they joined, and got a lot of interactions. Once M&G is scheduled, radio silent. Learned from my past experience, I texted them a couple of hours before the M&G, and told them that I won't be there if they won't send me a confirmation. Beside young SBs, several MILFs were like that as well.

In fact, I got a text from one of these MILFs 3 am in the morning asking me to book a room for her and her daughters because her ex is scaring them. I texted her back in the morning saying that I am not comfortable of doing it since we never met. This MILF: we scheduled M&G 3 times before and she backed out all.

I stopped renewing my SDFM account and is taking a break now.

Flakes have a direct correlation to young new listers. I have lost 3 18 to 19 yr olds in the last month. I swore I wouldn't do teens anymore but they are so irresistible. The new posters get a huge amount of attention from us all. We all know to jump on them fast and hard. Also for me it is nice to break one in if she is truly naive. The scenario is probably the same for us all. You chat them up quickly and text back and forth. Then you make a M&G appointment all within a week. The day of the meet she goes silent. 3 times I tell you this month! Everything seems perfect and she says she is excited to meet, and boom! Gone. I agree with Hollywood that you have got to meet them in the first day or two. They get cold feet, get a million other offers, and blow you off. Many of them come back around because they find the grass is not greener with the fantastical offers. Mr Big bangs them and moves on. Those of us who are looking for longer term SBs have to wait out the flush before they circle back around.

[John G Smith]

Walruscl. Yes, it's been mentioned that with Long Term SBs, it's very likely they'll eventually find out your real identity. Either there will be a slip-up on your part, hotel receipts, car registration, and etc or you'll just flat out tell her. If you know her personality type (a non-vindictive person) and there's mutually assured destruction, then disclosing IDs can be a non-lethal risk. And you really shouldn't do such disclosures until you've had your first argument, so you know how she acts when she's agitated or upset with you. And even then, I wouldn't show my LT SB directly where I live / work. I'll still let her try to figure it out, so there's some degree of uncertainty.

I've had three SBs know my real identity. Two were long-term SBs and one was a resourceful Pot SB who found a chink in my cover. With the two LT SBs I never had any problems and I had a lot of info on them as well. With one of them we've remained good friends and I know she would never do anything to harm me or my family. I had some info on the Pot SB, but I wasn't really comfortable with that situation so I quietly let her lose interest in me.

Once you cross the line and a SB knows your identity, then you MUST make sure when the arrangement / relationship ends that it's mostly on good terms. And even if the breakup is a bit rocky initially, you need to make sure you smooth things over within a couple of months so there's no lingering bitterness. After all, once a SB knows your identity she can theoretically pop into your life unannounced at a moment's notice at any time. A month from now or 2-3 years from now. And you never know, a nice girl today could end up being a Nando1 a few years from now. That's why so many guys here say NEVER blow your cover because there's no going back. There will always be a liability hanging out there.

That said, I totally feel you about the headaches of basically maintaining two covers. It's why despite the advice in this thread, once I'm with a LT SB who I trust more or less, I let her know my real name and do limited disclosures. It just makes my time together with her a lot more relaxing and less stressful. Generally with a LT SB, I may spend the whole day with them and it's just much easier not having to hide hotel bills, paying for alcohol, watching how I refer to myself in conversations, and etc. It's a definite risk, but we're all taking risks when we enter this lifestyle. It's just about the type of risks you're comfortable with accepting and avoiding unnecessary risks. The latter is subjective though. One man's necessary risk is another man's foolish errand.

[Hernando]

I feel you on the Flakes brother. I have always been the want it here now, and I want more type of person. So flakes have been a great character builder for me.

They have always frustrated me. I was on SA but found too many crazies and pros. I prefer SDFORme but the flake factor can be high. The younger the higher the flakes, the hotter the higher the flakes, the newer to the game the higher the flakes. Many times it is just a hot chick getting a better offer. Imagine what it would be like if you were young beautiful immature and guys were making you all kinds of offers all over the place. What would you do?

Good luck. Keep writing.

Revvo

Flakes have a direct correlation to young new listers. I have lost 3 18 to 19 yr olds in the last month. I swore I wouldn't do teens anymore but they are so irresistible. The new posters get a huge amount of attention from us all. We all know to jump on them fast and hard. Also for me it is nice to break one in if she is truly naive. The scenario is probably the same for us all. You chat them up quickly and text back and forth. Then you make a M&G appointment all within a week. The day of the meet she goes silent. 3 times I tell you this month! Everything seems perfect and she says she is excited to meet, and boom! Gone. I agree with Hollywood that you have got to meet them in the first day or two. They get cold feet, get a million other offers, and blow you off. Many of them come back around because they find the grass is not greener with the fantastical offers. Mr Big bangs them and moves on. Those of us who are looking for longer term SBs have to wait out the flush before they circle back around.

[HollywoodGuy]

I had a bad month last month, and so I tried to spend what free time I had building my bench back-up.

One thing I've noticed about SD4M is that it is MUCH easier to get a response from women than compared to AM, but the flake factor is much higher. Part of this is that I need to adjust my game a bit, and I think also part of it is that the women are motivated differently. But, I've had several girls just vanish after I thought the email / txt'ing was going well. Is this normal?

As for rebuilding my bench, earlier this week I thought things were going well. I had five solid potentials:

1. 22 yod Jamaican fresh off the boat. 7/8/7?

2. 26 yod AA with her own car and place. 7/7/8?

3. 21 year old Dominican 10/10/7?

4. 19 year AA 8/9/8?

5. 19 year AA 9/9/9?

#1 wanted $500 per meeting after a week of great txt'ing. I passed.

#2 has vanished which is a shame as being able to host would have removed LOTS of logistical issues.

I had a M&G scheduled for #3 today, but she cancelled. I suspect a better prospect emerged as she's new. She wants to skype with me next week when I'm in LA. I guess she's keeping her options open.

I had a M&G with #4, and things were going well. I might have pushed a little too much after the M&G, and now she's "moving to NYC". She never had a SD before, and I think she was expecting that sex wasn't going to be involved.

#5 is still an enigma mostly. We've set a dinner date for when I return from LA. We'll see where it goes.

On the non-SB front, my greek MILF has returned. My KAL hottie that wants to start a family still wants to meet until she can find Mr. Right. I think she just likes crashing at my corporate apartment in Santa Monica!

On SD4ME, get 'them when they sign up and meet them within a few days or lose them most of the time. Unless they are UTR

[HollywoodGuy]

F. Scott points out the MAJOR hole with Green Dot. You have to use a valid SSN. Years ago I was able to get one by saying to the rep I forgot my SSN. I ditched that card once I married. And I wish I hadn't. Since the Patriot Act. Trying to get a card without a SSN is a no-go now, or my social engineering skills aren't what they use to be.

If you ever need to get a credit report for a mortgage / refinance etc, the Green Dot is going to show up. Then, you have some splaining to do Lucy if your wife or SO looks at the credit report.

I put a fair amount of time in attempts to find a card that is renewable and you don't have to provide a SSN. Most of what I found were very sketchy cards for people to gamble online.

What I do now is reserve rooms with a personal card that has my office address, and pay in cash at check-in. Be careful that the type of reservation ISN'T pre-paid. Also be sure and pay at check-in. Some hotels now run your card at midnight.

There's a small risk with the above approach as the hotel does a card validity check. A private detective would have to be really good to get that info. If the info is even kept (I originally thought not. But now a days I think everything is kept).

Put the green dot in the girls name? Have her make the purchases, room rentals, etc.

[Revvo]

One thing I've noticed about SD4M is that it is MUCH easier to get a response from women than compared to AM, but the flake factor is much higher. Part of this is that I need to adjust my game a bit, and I think also part of it is that the women are motivated differently. But, I've had several girls just vanish after I thought the email / txt'ing was going well. Is this normal?

I feel you on the Flakes brother. I have always been the want it here now, and I want more type of person. So flakes have been a great character builder for me.

They have always frustrated me. I was on SA but found too many crazies and pros. I prefer SDFORme but the flake factor can be high. The younger the higher the flakes, the hotter the higher the flakes, the newer to the game the higher the flakes. Many times it is just a hot chick getting a better offer. Imagine what it would be like if you were young beautiful immature and guys were making you all kinds of offers all over the place. What would you do?

It is a challenge. I have fucked a lot of them and still go into phases where they just don't seem to respond well. So yes tune up your game. Stay confident and remember. There will be another 100 more babies on that site tomorrow. And the next day and the next.

I need to learn more from Hollywood on qualifying and getting that part right.

Good luck. Keep writing.

Revvo

[BikeRider]

I had a bad month last month, and so I tried to spend what free time I had building my bench back-up.

One thing I've noticed about SD4M is that it is MUCH easier to get a response from women than compared to AM, but the flake factor is much higher. Part of this is that I need to adjust my game a bit, and I think also part of it is that the women are motivated differently. But, I've had several girls just vanish after I thought the email / txt'ing was going well. Is this normal?

As for rebuilding my bench, earlier this week I thought things were going well. I had five solid potentials:

1. 22 yod Jamaican fresh off the boat. 7/8/7?

2. 26 yod AA with her own car and place. 7/7/8?

3. 21 year old Dominican 10/10/7?

4. 19 year AA 8/9/8?

5. 19 year AA 9/9/9?

#1 wanted $500 per meeting after a week of great txt'ing. I passed.

#2 has vanished which is a shame as being able to host would have removed LOTS of logistical issues.

I had a M&G scheduled for #3 today, but she cancelled. I suspect a better prospect emerged as she's new. She wants to skype with me next week when I'm in LA. I guess she's keeping her options open.

I had a M&G with #4, and things were going well. I might have pushed a little too much after the M&G, and now she's "moving to NYC". She never had a SD before, and I think she was expecting that sex wasn't going to be involved.

#5 is still an enigma mostly. We've set a dinner date for when I return from LA. We'll see where it goes.

On the non-SB front, my greek MILF has returned. My KAL hottie that wants to start a family still wants to meet until she can find Mr. Right. I think she just likes crashing at my corporate apartment in Santa Monica!