"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

**John G Smith** · 04-14-13 19:12

As they say, a man is only as faithful as his options.

If you have money, the means, and access to women, the vast majority of men will take advantage of it.

Not to toot our own horns in this forum, while we may not be multi-million dollar sugar daddies, we are guys with some money. The majority of us are spending a minimum of $1000 a month on our Sugar Bowl activities (when you include all the costs involved). Even with all the knowledge and experience available on this forum, you still need enough money to ante up to get yourself in the sugar game. I'm guessing most guys here are probably spending between 12-24K per year on their sugar activities, so if you're making 30-40K annually, sugar babies aren't really an option unless you just see one with a really low CPO.

The sugar daddy sites are giving us the access.

And technology is giving us the means to be discreet (burner phones, google voice, visa gift cards, and etc).

These things are allowing us to follow our ingrained instincts to spread our seed as much as possible, more so than Joe Blow who may not have the money or the means. Doesn't make us more "evil" than Joe Blow, we just have more options. And guys like Tiger Woods are several magnitudes above us in terms of options, but fundamentally we're all basically the same.

I don't know if you call it an addiction or what, but something definitely happens when you get a steady diet of fresh young pootang. It becomes harder to eat the same bland porridge everyday even if it gets the job done. Pretty soon you only want freshly squeezed pootang. And you might end up doing stupid things or take unnecessary risks to get it. Is it an addiction or diet change, I'll let you decide.

As for kids, that's the only flaw with man's desire to bang as many women as possible. Kids do best with both a strong male and female (or dual parent if you want to be PC) presence in the household. So it makes sense why women in general instinctually want to attach themselves to a single man to look after their offspring. I think though a more natural arrangement for man would be similar to a Lion Pride or a polygamous marriage. A man can have as many women and children as he can support or protect. So it wouldn't be about trying to tie down a man into a monogamous relationship which just goes against our natural behavior. But it would be about making sure a man takes care of his responsibilities whatever they may be.

**Zomby** · 04-14-13 12:34

Originally Posted by Revvo [View Original Post]

Really? If you can find a man that is honest about what he is feeling he will tell you that he thinks about the poontang every day. I go back to the 80% statistic. You think that that many people are risking so much just for a little fun? Or that many people are deviant? Here's a crazy thought. Maybe it is the 20% that are deviant? At least that is the way I understood my college stat class.

Saying that I'm addicted to sex is like saying I'm addicted to food. Yeah, I could get by on hamburger or masturbation every day, but why the fuck would I want to? If I can't have sex when I want and with whom I want, consensually of course, then I might as well die. Especially since it ain't hurting anybody, much less me.

The discussion about so-called sex "addiction" should really be about "why the fuck are you so interested in who I'm fucking, you god-damned, self-righteous, arrogant, perverted fucktard?"

/z

**Revvo** · 04-14-13 11:08

I was told by my best friend. That I am addicted to this shit. He is the only one I have told other than the fine folks on here.

He by the way has, been married three times, fucked everything that moves, and is a reformed alcoholic. He works in the highest levels of law enforcement where 75% of their work revolves around the drug trade. So he knows a thing or two about addiction. But I honestly don't believe him.

I think our society calling what we do. Which is wanting to be with a lot of beautiful, young, highly sexual women deviant, addictive, or perverted behavior. Is complete and total bullshit!

Really? If you can find a man that is honest about what he is feeling he will tell you that he thinks about the poontang every day. I go back to the 80% statistic. You think that that many people are risking so much just for a little fun? Or that many people are deviant? Here's a crazy thought. Maybe it is the 20% that are deviant? At least that is the way I understood my college stat class.

I firmly believe that sex to a man is one of his fundamental sources of happiness. And we basically have a society that takes that away from us. Of course we are going to have all kinds of crazy things going on. Something is wrong here and it is not me. Here is the facts: men were built and programmed to have sex with as many women as they can. And no amount of social programming, religious training, or pop-psychology is going to change that. This is in our lizard brain and it is not going to stop.

You can fight it and suffer. You can accept it and find a way to get a little joy from it. Or maybe not get married (too late for me on that one). But if you deny it. You are now telling the worst kind of lie the one you tell yourself.

I choose to accept it, and tell the relatively small lies to my wife and society to maintain some brief shining moments of sanity to my otherwise boring existence. Let me ask you all a question.

What is the difference between Tiger Woods, or Kobe Bryant, or Mick Jagger and us? When it comes to chasing and fucking beautiful young women? They have the money and fame to do it anytime they want! That's it. Think of the 80% stat if we all had access to the pussy any time we wanted. It would easily be 100. There is an old interview on MTV with David Lee Roth of VanHalen, back when he could and would do drugs. It goes something like this:

Interviewer: "We want to ask you about your drug problem."

David Lee Roth: "Nah man. I ain't got a drug problem. Now back when I was poor I had a drug problem. Now that I got money. No drug problem".

The point is it was the access. That was the problem. Drugs is not pussy. And one we were made to have the other will fuck up your life. But I think you see my point.

Does this solve anything. Nah. I can't change society. But I do sleep a little better at night. Knowing that I am not some sort of evil deviant pervert. Know yourself my friends.

I look at the guys on here at some level kind of like between the Tiger Woods of the world and the average "normal" eunuchs of our society. We are kind of living out our biological prerogative. Only we do not get it handed to us. We have to go out there and chase it down.

Oops another rant.

Lets be careful out there.

Revvo

**SubCmdr** · 04-14-13 10:10

Ah shit! Everybody getting sprung on the Kat. It's an epidemic!

Will young pussy be the ruin of all mankind? Nah! Just the horny ones like us!

P. S. Not a addict yet. But making it a point to abuse the pussy as much as possible.

**Seadog1000** · 04-14-13 09:30

Hernando. I'm sorry you're seperated. We are all here for you, one big support group. Helping you understand its ok for you to want to bang young chicks. You aren't making them do it, they want to. You're helping them out. The younger ones I'm with like an older, established man who has money to spend on them. You're doing a good thing helping them out. Don't be a quitter, we need you on our wall.

Sea Out

Originally Posted by Hernando [View Original Post]

You hit the nail on the head my friend, it is an addiction.

My SO has discovered my habit and is amazingly willing to work with me to get me" help " As said before, many wives want to preserve the family integrity and will go a long way to support their husband as long as he is working on his addiction. As a result of this I am seeing a zillion therapists, sex addiction specialists, who state there is a huge number of guys like us who just can't keep our dicks in our pants. The only difference between us and chemical addicts is that we are not physically damaging our bodies, but the same pathways in the brain are stimulated and imprinted by this adrenaline, cortisol, and oxytocin generating behavior.

So we start off with a little "playing around ". What harm could it do? Well here's what happens. There is SO much stimulation by a 60 yr old banging a 20 yr old that we get a rush of hormones that flood our brain bringing this intense sense of well being and happiness (Dopamine, Seratonin, and Norepinephrine) There are few things in a normal life that cause this much reaction. But when the chemical flood wears off we need more and more. And what is there not to love about having sex with a 20 yr old? A 50 yr old wife, even an attractive one, could never compete. So we set them up for failure.

The end result will be one of two things.

You will not get addicted and limit your play discretely to a low level bang and run, or

You will push the envelope needing to see more and more babies in spite of the consequences and eventually will get caught.

I am separated, getting counseling, and still can not get over the need to bed young girls. I am an addict.

**BigTigger** · 04-14-13 08:32

Well Said. I completely agree.

"Hi. My name is BigTigger and I'm an addict".

Originally Posted by Hernando [View Original Post]

You hit the nail on the head my friend, it is an addiction.

My SO has discovered my habit and is amazingly willing to work with me to get me" help " As said before, many wives want to preserve the family integrity and will go a long way to support their husband as long as he is working on his addiction. As a result of this I am seeing a zillion therapists, sex addiction specialists, who state there is a huge number of guys like us who just can't keep our dicks in our pants. The only difference between us and chemical addicts is that we are not physically damaging our bodies, but the same pathways in the brain are stimulated and imprinted by this adrenaline, cortisol, and oxytocin generating behavior.

So we start off with a little "playing around ". What harm could it do? Well here's what happens. There is SO much stimulation by a 60 yr old banging a 20 yr old that we get a rush of hormones that flood our brain bringing this intense sense of well being and happiness (Dopamine, Seratonin, and Norepinephrine) There are few things in a normal life that cause this much reaction. But when the chemical flood wears off we need more and more. And what is there not to love about having sex with a 20 yr old? A 50 yr old wife, even an attractive one, could never compete. So we set them up for failure.

The end result will be one of two things.

You will not get addicted and limit your play discretely to a low level bang and run, or

You will push the envelope needing to see more and more babies in spite of the consequences and eventually will get caught.

I am separated, getting counseling, and still can not get over the need to bed young girls. I am an addict.

**BigTigger** · 04-14-13 08:30

Good Work Revvo, keep it up!

I had a string where I was meeting some real hotties, it's like being MJ or Tiger in the zone, I just love it.

Originally Posted by Revvo [View Original Post]

Here is the latest. A pretty damn good week.

REVVOATF, My little raven haired MILF is going strong. She is such a pleasant breath of fresh air. We can only meet about once a week. Two at the most. But when we do it is heaven. She is completely available to me. When we are together. She has a busy life with a small child, no father in the picture. Does get support. And has a job but is in debt and hurting for money. I honestly feel bad for her. And she is not asking me for extra cash. And I want to help. But I do not want to set a precedent. This baby has lived on the top before her divorce so she knows what it is like. But she makes do. Maybe I will give her a little something extra just to help her out. Don't know yet. Sexy and gorgeous. I will rate her as a 9 head 8 body, and 10 attitude. It is amazing to say but she treats me so well. She can't keep her hands off of me. I am startled sometimes by it. She has said things to me nice things sexy things, that I have never heard from my wife in over 17 years of marriage. What kind of a fucking world do we live in guys? That this is how things are. If I could spend all of my time with her I would. But I live in another city and we have separate lives. So I have more babies to help out with the other days. I honestly was only trying to round out a list of baby's I could call on for back up. Or to have a bench but it has blossomed.

REVVOSB2, My little asian fortune cookie. Sweet as can be. Eager to please and never shy about getting down to business. She is looking for ways to fuck me that I have not done yet. We are working on a list. She is only in town every other week because of her job. She works for one of the pharmaceutical firms and travels to NY. I am going to see her on Monday for our next visit. She wants to meet right after she gets off the plane so we can get to it. Since she will have to pick up her son later in the day. So get down we will. She is a little hard to raise on text. But when she is on she is very responsive. Milfs with kids and job, are a lot more busy, part of the package. I will have a better report on her later this week. But all systems are go. She did a lot of modeling in her younger years she is 26yo 9 head 8 body, and 0 attitude. So I want to get some more of her professional pics.

REVVOPOT1, This baby is divorced and 28 YO white from somewhere in the Mediterranean. Lives in the same city as ATF. Absolutely gorgeous. I swear I am not that picky but I have a bench of all hotties right now. She is a 10 head 10 body, and about 7. 5 on attitude so far. But I learned something about her and others like her. You cannot be too good to them. It will ruin them if they stick around, but many times they will bolt if you are too good also. Got to be cocky and throw a little attitude back at her and accept no bad behavior. But not too much attitude. It is a balancing act. She sent me a picture with just her bra and panties, and pumps on. Shot from behind. She is standing on a balcony looking out. It almost brought a tear to my eye it was so perfect. This ass was fucking awesome. And she has that natural gap between her legs with the light from the outdoors shining through it. OMG I almost died. Anyway still working on her. But she is ready to meet and is good with a very fair price, $$ for a 10 I will be in heaven if I tap this.

REVVOPOT2, Another one that fell into my lap. Very new to the sugar bowl. 20 YO Latina, fine fine fine, and she is the worst looking of the four! I would rate her at a 8 head 8 body, and 7 attitude. Just because I am not sure of her yet. But I think she can be developed into some first string talent. We are set to meet on Monday. Strategy wise I have been trying to make contact with the new ones early on like Hollywood recommends. Then if they strike an attitude I just let them spend a couple of weeks trying to wade through the male debris that is in the sugar bowl. Then come back to them and see if they want to give it a try again. I did this with both of these POTs. And it seems to be working. They kind of understand how tough it can be out there. She is a college student very intelligent and has a very sexy body. Says she is open minded. Well I am going to open her mind some more and everything else. He he he. All kidding aside one of the things I have been told by all of these babies is that they get really creeped out by a lot of these men in and out of the sugar bowl and it really turns them off. I ask them about it and it is hard for them to explain. But the one thing I have noticed is that it seems like so many of these guys are just trying to get something from them. And the men are so needy. And the babies sense it. And they hate it.

Anyway that is where I am at for now. More reports to come. This should be a very busy week. Wifey is still kind of checking up on me. But I am following the advice on here and flying so low that my wheels are skimming off of the treetops. She is buying it. But she is still watching me.

Be careful out there,

Revvo

**Hernando** · 04-14-13 08:29

Originally Posted by John G Smith [View Original Post]

I'm getting spoiled banging 20 something college girls. It's like a drug.

You hit the nail on the head my friend, it is an addiction.

My SO has discovered my habit and is amazingly willing to work with me to get me" help " As said before, many wives want to preserve the family integrity and will go a long way to support their husband as long as he is working on his addiction. As a result of this I am seeing a zillion therapists, sex addiction specialists, who state there is a huge number of guys like us who just can't keep our dicks in our pants. The only difference between us and chemical addicts is that we are not physically damaging our bodies, but the same pathways in the brain are stimulated and imprinted by this adrenaline, cortisol, and oxytocin generating behavior.

So we start off with a little "playing around ". What harm could it do? Well here's what happens. There is SO much stimulation by a 60 yr old banging a 20 yr old that we get a rush of hormones that flood our brain bringing this intense sense of well being and happiness (Dopamine, Seratonin, and Norepinephrine) There are few things in a normal life that cause this much reaction. But when the chemical flood wears off we need more and more. And what is there not to love about having sex with a 20 yr old? A 50 yr old wife, even an attractive one, could never compete. So we set them up for failure.

The end result will be one of two things.

You will not get addicted and limit your play discretely to a low level bang and run, or

You will push the envelope needing to see more and more babies in spite of the consequences and eventually will get caught.

I am separated, getting counseling, and still can not get over the need to bed young girls. I am an addict.

**FredMoore** · 04-14-13 07:58

Family credit card use should be limited.

I charge gas on the family account and found out the hard way that my SO watches the charges on line in real time. We have kids and are watching cash flow, but she asked me why I was using so much gas. Oops. All of my SBs are 60 to 90 miles away so my gas use is way up. I took the car in to get "tuned up " because a poorly tuned engine increases gas use. Now I alternate fill ups with my business account.

**FredMoore** · 04-14-13 07:49

Originally Posted by Revvo [View Original Post]

What kind of false bullshit have we set up for ourselves and our own kids? I have a son and a daughter and I fear for their success in this deck that is stacked against their own internal human nature. I for one will be counseling them on this when the time comes. So I can try to help them avoid some of these mistakes.

Revvo

Rev, I agonize over this all the time, even on the way to the FC. Sad, but true. I have two questions for you.

1) What are you going to tell your kids? Don't get married? Make sure you love their spouses? We all do want to be with our wives until we don't. Is it a character flaw or are we victims of our biology? (Sorry. 3? S in 1)

2) What is your monthly budget for hobbying?

I have cut back from $2000 to $1000 / month plus extras. My SO is suspicious so I have to be extra careful. My HCGs are costing me about $250 / meeting so it limits me to essentially one, which is not enough. I am working on "free" sperm recipients like from AM but they are hard duty to line up.

**John G Smith** · 04-14-13 06:33

Originally Posted by Revvo [View Original Post]

But I cannot leave. It would be too much for my kids and it would cost me at least half of my net worth and income. And I live in a husband friendly state. So I ask again. What are we doing to ourselves. I am just as guilty as anyone else. I don't hate my wife. I am not leaving my wife. I am not going to make my kids suffer for my mistakes. So I cheat. And try to spend a little quality time in the sugar bowl. With my very willing accomplices. There has got to be a better way.

Things aren't going the greatest with me and the SO. But I most likely won't leave her for exactly those same reasons. I don't want to lose half of my net worth and I don't want to create a broken home for the kids. I'm using the sugar bowl to basically help me keep my sanity. And honestly, I'm getting spoiled banging 20 something college girls. My wife has let herself go physically. But the sugar bowl is like stepping into a time machine and I can have sex with young tight-bodied college girls who are open sexually. It's like a drug.

I think our society would be better if it was acceptable for a man to take on a mistress and to also make prostitution legal.

**John G Smith** · 04-14-13 06:15

Originally Posted by Literal2 [View Original Post]

I do this, except I hadn't thought about using the same soap at home. Good idea. Actually I have multiple sets of exactly the same clothes and often carry a duplicate set in the gym bag to change into after the "workout." I also always have a plastic garbage bag in the gym bag to carry the clothes that were present in the FC. It contains their smell until I can get them washed. Some times I've just thrown away a set of clothes in the bag. Underwear in particular of course, but just one of those long single strands of beautiful hair left on your shirt can change your life forever. If you let your SO do your laundry, you'd better get your gym clothes sweaty after a "workout" before she handles them.

I also use a plastic bag to hold my dirty / sweaty clothes from the gym. I get pretty funky when I workout so thankfully my SO no longer sniffs too hard on the clothes. If the clothes appear wet in the plastic bag, she usually holds it with her tippy fingers far away from her nose. So when I go to the FC, I get a wet towel and wrap my underwear and gym clothes in it. I layer it so the wet towel is sitting on top of my gym clothes in the plastic bag, so everything is wet like a normal workout. Also my SO may not actually wash the clothes for a couple of days, by then the wet clothes will smell a bit funky even without my actual sweat. And on few occasions, I've actually done some pushups and sit ups in the FC to break a light sweat with my gym clothes.

But I don't do sexual activities with my SB using my gym clothes. I keep my gym clothes and "post-workout" clothes completely separate, so I can avoid the "long single strand of hair" getting stuck on them. So I usually have four sets of clothes. 1) The clothes I leave the house with. 2) the clothes I use when I'm touching my SB (might just be an under-shirt and underwear 3) my gym clothes which I'll need to simulate a workout with 4) my post-workout clothes that I return home with. The SO is used to seeing clothes 1, 3 and 4. It's just #2 that I have to be careful with.

Sometimes I scare myself with the level of deception I do.

**Zomby** · 04-13-13 21:17

Originally Posted by Walruscl [View Original Post]

So how do you manage discretion with such a short motel visit? Cash and no I'd required? Maybe I'm paranoid, but the thought of leaving behind footprints with my real name and address around at motels makes me squeamish.

Short answer: you don't. There isn't a hotel or motel, at least not that you'd actually *want* to go to, that won't ask for the ID of the person renting the room. This is so that they can recover if you trash the room or manage to leave withou paying. The ones that don't require ID are also the ones with trashed rooms and unchanged sheets.

Originally Posted by Walruscl [View Original Post]

I don't regularly travel so I don't have that cover story to hide behind.

Like others have said, join a gym or poker club or something that let's you get away.

I'm in a somewhat different position than most of you in that I don't have to take such measures to hide from my wife, and the kids are easier to fool, so this hasn't been as important to me, which may make my knowledge less than complete.

/z

**Literal2** · 04-13-13 18:36

Originally Posted by Walruscl [View Original Post]

So how do you manage discretion with such a short motel visit? Cash and no I'd required? Maybe I'm paranoid, but the thought of leaving behind footprints with my real name and address around at motels makes me squeamish.

I don't regularly travel so I don't have that cover story to hide behind.

F Scott's a resident expert on this topic walrus. You might want to read his past posts or try him on the back channel (pm).

**Revvo** · 04-13-13 16:07

Hollywood is right. Marriage as far as I can see has only one real reason. And that is for kids. Or maybe companionship when you are really old and rely on each other before you die.

In fact let me add to the statistics. I have a friend who is a shrink and I asked him about this. The rate of infidelity in the US is 80% this is astounding! That means that if you are in a group of 5 married people 4 have or will cheat! Also if a man cheats, women take them back 95% of the time. If a woman cheats men take them back 5% of the time.

What in the fuck are we doing to ourselves in this society? It does not have to be like this. Lots of people say that over 50% of marriages end in divorce and that makes it a failed institution. Well I believe that if you include the 80% cheating rate, then we truly are suffering through many failed arrangements. I am in what I consider a failed marriage ever since I first cheated.

But I cannot leave. It would be too much for my kids and it would cost me at least half of my net worth and income. And I live in a husband friendly state. So I ask again. What are we doing to ourselves. I am just as guilty as anyone else. I don't hate my wife. I am not leaving my wife. I am not going to make my kids suffer for my mistakes. So I cheat. And try to spend a little quality time in the sugar bowl. With my very willing accomplices. There has got to be a better way.

What kind of false bullshit have we set up for ourselves and our own kids? I have a son and a daughter and I fear for their success in this deck that is stacked against their own internal human nature. I for one will be counseling them on this when the time comes. So I can try to help them avoid some of these mistakes.

Sorry for the rant,

Revvo