"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

**F Scott** · 02-09-13 00:14

Sub,

While I said in an earlier post that I would absolutely defend any brother's right to speak his mind, I do feel like I want to comment on the vigor of your language, especially as it concerns what I feel to be the nuances of the pro / semi pro / utr / sb spectrum. You cannot, in all honesty, tell me that you believe you could offer any random SB you encounter, or for that fact, any woman you encounter, a wad of cash in exchange for sex, and that as long as you offered enough money, she would de facto agree. A certain percentage, perhaps a majority, would slap your face and head out the door. Those who don't, I would agree, have already decided they are garden tools, but that does not mean we can assume that if x number of babies agree to your terms, then all babies would as well, as long as you reached their sugar threshold. If that were the case, none of us would be here on this thread, debating the tactics and difficulties of landing these sweet little fish. Instead, we would be comparing dollar amounts for services rendered, as all the other sorry threads on this forum do.

What is that old expression, if you are a hammer everything looks like a nail? The corollary might be that if you are a hammer, the only thing you look for are nails. Or perhaps, if you are a hammer, all you ever can see are nails. In any event, I think it is not as simple as we might like to believe it to be. Cash does not guarantee access to pussy, simple as that, unless the only women you are offering it to have already defined themselves in their minds as hoes, so to speak. Think of it as soft targets vs hard targets, or bait casting vs fly fishing.

In the end, it is all about our own expectations. If all we ever expect to find are garden tools, then that is exactly what we will find.

Peace,

Scott

**Hernando** · 02-08-13 23:53

Commander, I respect and admire your wordcraft and avoidance of obfuscation.

I stand corrected. And I agree that a garden tool is _____a garden tool by any definition.

**SubCmdr** · 02-08-13 21:40

Originally Posted by Hernando [View Original Post]

SB : I view as a true amateur who seeks a relationship providing intimate services in addition to other relational experiences such as entertainment, travel, romance in return for an allowance. I differ from a lot of guys in that if she has 2 or more SDs that puts her in the pro class.

Amateur: A person who engages in an art, science, study, or athletic activity as a pastime rather than as a profession.

SB fits under this definition. Is being a SB her profession? If the answer is no she is a amateur.

Prostitution: The business or practice of providing sexual services to another person in return for payment.

SB fits under this definition also. Because she is in the practice of providing sexual services to another person in return for payment. See Hernado's definition: "seeks a relationship providing intimate services; blah, blah, blah"

A SB becomes a prostitute by definition the moment she accepts money for the "practice of providing sexual services to another person." If she is exclusive to you she becomes your "personal garden tool".

Is she an Amateur Prostitute? Yes she is. If she is a SB as a pastime rather than as a profession.

Gentlemen, let's not engage in self deception here. A strict interpretation of the definition leaves no room for whimsical rationalization of thought. We are all men here (with one known exception). Let's stick to logic and leave emotion to the our wives, girlfriends, SO's and SB's.

I am prepared to Stand and take my grade!

SubCmdr Out!

**FredMoore** · 02-08-13 12:40

I now have 4 SBs working but one possible retirement.

SB # 1

I have seen for 3 or 4 months and she is a 25 yr old HCB who I'm afraid to say is frigid or at least sexually repressed. We get along well and she seems to enjoy seeing me, but when we go to the FC she lays there like a board. Now without bragging I am a man with many acquired skills and decent looks for a 50 yr old. But I just can't seem to crack this nut. I guess she just isn't into me, but I do think it's more than that. We all know that many of these girls have "issues " to participate in this world anyway. The most recent evening together was the straw that broke the camels back. We had a lovely evening eating in and watching a movie. Then went to bed and that's when nothing began. I tried oral which I love.nothing, manual, nothing, then hopped on for a dry hump and pounded my way to the big O. I felt bad for her but not bad enough to quit. She never said "no"or "stop " The worst sex I've had has still been good as this was, at least to get that release into a sweet and tight love canal. But ____ I totally need participation and it wasn't happening. I tried to have a sweet convo with her about what is up and she just won't talk. WEIRD! She is so cute and I love being with her but I think I'm going to let her go. She doesn't initiate contact so I'm just not going to either. If she wants to talk she will need to write and participate. Sad!

SB POT # 1

New entry from SA. We began writing last PM and have M&G next week. She is a 28 yr old Asian which I am very excited about. She is kind of old for me but it might be better to get a grown up girlfriend finally. She is really cute and her profile if encouraging about wanting to "please her man " That's what I'm talking about! Stay tuned.

AM Pot #1

I decided to report on AM girls separate from SBs since most are freebies except for room and board. She is a 30 yr old unhappily married cutie who is sending me R Rated photos and she looks good. She is perhaps a size 8 which looks good on her. I prefer a size 0 to 2 but she is far from chubby. We have been emailing daily and I look to meet her in the FC pretty soon. These AM girls take a little more work I am finding. When $$ is involved the girls are a little more motivated to get on the payroll faster.

AM Pot # 2

I've been texting for 2 mos. She is a professional (not sex) and unhappily married and only can play when I can't. We have schedule dysfunction and I am doubtful if we can figure it out. She is 45 and too old for my liking but she is decent looking and fun to talk to. Perhaps with lights off she could be sporty in bed. We'll see. My playground is 1 to 2 hours away so I can only play in the evenings after work. Weekends are for my family.

**F Scott** · 02-08-13 10:31

Originally Posted by BigTigger [View Original Post]

I was wrong the MILF did find a way to get my real information. Since that time, she's try to extort money from me, called my wife at work to expose me and called us at home to give more details. It has been a bit unsettling and frustrating. She threw in a few lies and overall sounded like a complete nut. So it wasn't hard to sway the benefit of the doubt. The good news is that based on advice from a trusted SB, I was told to tell my wife some story in advance that would take the steam out of the crazy SB. Well it worked. To make a long story short, we've dealt with it, changed numbers and moved on. Wife completely believes my story and the crazy MILF SB (41 years old) has been thwarted for the moment.

BigTigg.

I think I speak for us all when I say that I'd like a little more info here. Exactly what story did you tell your wife, and how far in advance did you tell it? How did you play it when the SB called? How did you explain that she knew your name and phone#s? For that matter, how did she get your info? Inquiring minds want to know!

Glad it worked out for you,

Scott

**Graham111** · 02-08-13 10:13

Thanks as always brothers for the dialog. So true about Nando1 pro and staying away. And the recycle of the rolodex! Currently involved with SB9. Young Mom divorced and working but struggling and SB10. HYCB looking for presents. Both have there ups and downs. Will report in later. But like the move to young 20s from older SB. They are refreshing and nailing a 20 something (I am mid 50s) does have it's satisfaction factor. Later dudes

**BigTigger** · 02-07-13 22:23

I was wrong the MILF did find a way to get my real information. Since that time, she's try to extort money from me, called my wife at work to expose me and called us at home to give more details. It has been a bit unsettling and frustrating. She threw in a few lies and overall sounded like a complete nut. So it wasn't hard to sway the benefit of the doubt. The good news is that based on advice from a trusted SB, I was told to tell my wife some story in advance that would take the steam out of the crazy SB. Well it worked. To make a long story short, we've dealt with it, changed numbers and moved on. Wife completely believes my story and the crazy MILF SB (41 years old) has been thwarted for the moment.

Meanwhile part of my clearing up some of my tracks was to cancel all 3 SD accounts that I had and change the number on my BatPhone.

Good news is that since I already had started with the new one I met,"the one who didn't want me to pay for gas", I'll call her MsSuccessful. This situation made it easier to drop many of the others as I'm "laying low". I had about 3 to 4 others lined up as potential TiggaBabies. As careful as I am, I'm guessing one of the times I went in to CVS, she went through my armrest. We were together for 4 to 5 days straight. She was a pleasure to be around and we really clicked well. I'd never guess she's stoop to this. Especially since she was treated so well.

So, much to my dismay, I have MsOxyMoron on pause for a few as I'm laying low. If she had her own place, she would have made the final cut, but I'm down to just 2 (MsYoungStunning and MsSuccessful). Funny thing is, they live 2 hours from me, but 15 mins apart, LOL.

I've seen MsSuccessful 2 more times since our first date. It's been pretty hot. She came up here and we hung out for 4 hours, long drive nice restaurant and some kissing. Then I drove down there and hung out for 5 hours. She invited me to her office and we went to lunch and by the end of the time, we were hot-and-heavy all over her office. We did not actually do the tiggabounce, but the fun was a great hint of what's coming soon. We have 2 more dates setup for next week. She's definitely in the #1 spot.

I have a date with MsYoungStunning on Monday. It's a food / movie / hotel date. So I'll be working her over on Monday and probably drop $ in her purse and she'll be extremely happy.

BigTigg.

**John G Smith** · 02-07-13 18:54

Originally Posted by Hernando [View Original Post]

UTR (under the radar) : IMHO defines a girl / guy who is a non advertising Pro. She is available for a price to clients who are referred by word of mouth to her. She would not have an ad up, a website, or be represented by a pimp. There is generally not any sort of relationship involved other than meet for sex.

Tweener : Is another variation of an UTR girl. She sells sex but relies on referrals as well. This could be one or two Johns but could generally be many.

SB : I view as a true amateur who seeks a relationship providing intimate services in addition to other relational experiences such as entertainment, travel, romance in return for an allowance. I differ from a lot of guys in that if she has 2 or more SDs that puts her in the pro class.

That's pretty much how I see the definitions as well.

Also a true SB usually wants the company of a successful well-off man and to feel "special" for an afternoon or evening. That's why sometimes simply treating her to a nice dinner can go a long way. Some of the younger SBs are used to having boyfriends that barely treat them to more than a Happy Meal at McDonalds. So many true SBs in addition to the financial aspect are looking to have a taste of a better lifestyle. A Pro usually just cares about the pure money transaction and is eager to cut to the chase regardless if there's a connection or not. Granted, some SBs are purely focused on the allowance (usually Nando1s) but they would still be interested in a nice night out on the town if offered. Whereas a Pro might even charge you more for the time to take her out on the town!

That said, I do think a good percentage of SBs often migrate into UTR girls if they've been in the sugar world for a while. After a few years of sugar dating, many of them develop a Rolodex of SD contacts. And if the SB is still unemployed or in hard times, she'll just cycle through her SD contact list for quick "arrangements". When a girl calls you out of the blue after 3-6 months of no contact, that's basically what she's doing. And if she's hitting up multiple SDs for direct FC visits, then she's turned Pro.

BTW, when a SB says she's only had one SD, usually it means she had at least 2 short-term SDs and maybe one or two long-term SDs. Girls only adds a SD to their "total" SD count if the arrangement exceeded 3-6 months. Otherwise it wasn't a "real" arrangement and it never existed. LOL. I always laugh when I see girls who have been SA for 1-2 years and claim they only had one SD. Sure.

Revvo - One good way to recognize a Pro is to pay attention when they ask for your picture (assuming your profile doesn't have any photos). Most Pros will be willing to get into the nitty gritty details of an arrangement and even discuss FC visits without having even seen your picture yet. To them, you're just a wad of cash with legs, so it doesn't matter what you look like. However most SBs will request your picture before having any real serious discussion. Obviously there are exceptions, but it's a good indicator to pay attention to when calibrating your Pro-dar.

**Hernando** · 02-07-13 17:11

UTR (under the radar) : IMHO defines a girl / guy who is a non advertising Pro. She is available for a price to clients who are referred by word of mouth to her. She would not have an ad up, a website, or be represented by a pimp. There is generally not any sort of relationship involved other than meet for sex.

Tweener : Is another variation of an UTR girl. She sells sex but relies on referrals as well. This could be one or two Johns but could generally be many.

SB : I view as a true amateur who seeks a relationship providing intimate services in addition to other relational experiences such as entertainment, travel, romance in return for an allowance. I differ from a lot of guys in that if she has 2 or more SDs that puts her in the pro class.

**Mr Strict** · 02-07-13 15:09

[QUOTE=John G Smith; 1672657]Bingo.

More and more Pros, Semi-Pros, and UTR girls are using sugar daddy sites. As long as you can recognize them and you know what you're getting into, they can sometimes be fun when you want something straightforward. But you just have to be more careful because a Nando1 Pro is much more dangerous than a Nando1 SB. [/QUOTE.

My understanding of the definition of "UTR", under the radar, was a non-pro girl that only works occasionally, to which sugar babies seem to fall into as a subset. If I am incorrect, would someone in the membership please set this brother on the correct path.

And yes, nothing is more dangerous than a nando 1 pro. Holy Jesus, run quicky away!

Be safe.

Strict

**F Scott** · 02-07-13 11:57

Originally Posted by Revvo [View Original Post]

Thanks for the advice guys. Do you think it would make sense to update my profile and just say no pros please?

Or something to that effect?

Revvo

I have some language to that effect in my text, and while it doesn't discourage all pros, I do believe it cuts down on the number of contacts I get from them. They are a wily breed, however, and are well used to fooling men, so it's best to keep your pro-dar activated at all times if they are not your targets, to borrow a metaphor from Sub!

Dive, dive, dive,

Scott

**Revvo** · 02-06-13 23:00

Thanks for the advice guys. Do you think it would make sense to update my profile and just say no pros please?

Or something to that effect?

Revvo

**John G Smith** · 02-06-13 19:40

Originally Posted by F Scott [View Original Post]

No true SB would have her time so closely tied to dollars. As for what to do, that depends on you, my friend. This is bait casting in a barrel, as opposed to fly fishing in a clear stream. Show up with the required amount of sugar, and you will be fucking her. But any one of us, given access, could do the same I'm guessing. Where's the challenge in that?

Bingo.

A real SB unless they have some real time constraints (job, school, child care, and etc) they won't be clock watching or attach dollars so closely to the hours you spend with them. That's a Pro's mentality.

Clearly she's a Nando1. And a Nando1 Pro Is the type you should run away from as fast as you can. You don't know what kind of "habits" she may have or the type of low-lifes she hangs with. Definitely not worth the risk and as F Scott alluded to, there's no badge of honor banging her because she's a desperate former/current hooker, not a true SB which requires a bit of skill and luck. And it sounds like you already have enough stuff going on that you don't need her for a quick lay either.

More and more Pros, Semi-Pros, and UTR girls are using sugar daddy sites. As long as you can recognize them and you know what you're getting into, they can sometimes be fun when you want something straightforward. But you just have to be more careful because a Nando1 Pro is much more dangerous than a Nando1 SB.

**Revvo** · 02-06-13 16:06

I passed. I was not even in town at the time.

Amazing how my perspective has changed since being on this site. I have been incredibly naive. But I still can learn.

Besides I have some amazing prospects lining up. I just got to get the time. Too much traveling for work.

This thread has been invaluable to me. And things are definitely getting better.

Good to see you back Scott where have you been hiding?

Revvo

**F Scott** · 02-06-13 13:28

I think Nando hit the nail squarely on the head: Nando 1, and a pro to boot. Plus the infinitely shaded and negotiated time for the various sugar amounts. It's almost like a take-out menu selection. No true SB would have her time so closely tied to dollars. As for what to do, that depends on you, my friend. This is bait casting in a barrel, as opposed to fly fishing in a clear stream. Show up with the required amount of sugar, and you will be fucking her. But any one of us, given access, could do the same I'm guessing. Where's the challenge in that?

Just my opinion, but there it is. I would give it a pass, and save my sugar for something more elusive.

Scott