Massage Parlor Reports

[Yurengr]

Driving through Nashville this weekend and had the opportunity to see HGW's Ashlie. The girl is hot, sweet, and gives an awesome massage. And that is just the first half hour. Very nice body, in her prime, and an incredible rack! Treat her well guys, she is a keeper. Thanks HornyGoatWeed for the intel and contact info!

Yurengr (from Knoxville)

I TOFTT today and I have found Karma's replacement. Only trusted Sr. Members PM me on the details of Ashlie.

[HarryManback]

I thought this was a Massage Parlor thread, not Up & Bob's Legal Forum.

[BobJones2011]

UpForItNow: Thank you for your excellent post but I would like to clarify my position and your comments from a legal standpoint. If the criminal informant and accomplice testimony is utilized then is NOT hearsay. The justice system (police, district attorneys) use Confidential Informants (CIs) all the time. However many jurisdications across the USA are requiring more substantial collaboration of CI information due to the increasing discovery of false or misleading information that led to an arrest or conviction. CIs and / or Jailhouse snitches and the information that they are passing to Law Enforcement is coming under attack by Defense Attorneys due to the very nature of the individual motivation by a CI or Jailhouse Snitch that is monetarily compensated or seeks a reduction in jail time. Additionally States are pushing to pass legislation that would provide counsel to CIs informaing them of the dangerous nature involved with being a CI / Snitch due to the legal liability involved with such activity (See Rachel Hoffman Florida $2. 6M Payout due Murder)

In Cash v. Maxwell the United States Supreme Court (SCOTUS) recently denied a certiorari (A writ or order by which a higher court reviews a decision of a lower court: "an order of certiorari"). Maxwell also shows how the legal debate over informant use is becoming less about procedure and more about substantive questions of reliability and innocence. Until recently, most informant litigation has been a fight over disclosure: the information that the government must disclose regarding its use of compensated criminal witnesses. The Maxwell case and the Sotomayor / Scalia debate squarely confront the substantive question of unreliability: how unreliable can compensated criminal witnesses be before the law restricts their use? Or to put it another way, how high is our tolerance for the likelihood of wrongful conviction?

Okay enough legalize LOL! I was simply try to EMPHASIZE to the hobbying community that the POSTS on this board or any other board cannot be used in a Court of Law due to the their inability to be SUBSTANIATED. Moverover whose name are they going to use "UpForItNow" LOL. I think not; I am just trying to stop those folks (both members and providers) from spreading false and / or misleading information. Let's just have fun and then again these posts are just our "Fantasys" right?

BobJones2011

BJ,

Actually, warrants are obtained based on hearsay all the time. Informants tell the cops what they heard the suspect say, the informant's statement goes into an affidavit, and a judge who may be a golfing buddy with the prosecutor says that looks like probable cause to him, and presto! A warrant for whatever the prosecutor wants is in his hands. Plus, there are may exceptions and ways around the hearsay rule, including a big one that anything considered an admission by a defendant is going to be admitted in evidence, even at a trial. If a pimp is charged with solicitation or transporting his working girls across state lines, and they have traced explicit online ads with photos, descriptions of services and prices to the IP address of his computer, you can bet those ads will end up in front ot the jury, probably over and over again. Hearsay schearm-say.

That said, you are absolutely right on with the rest of your post. No way are they going to spend the money and effort needed to get subpoenas issued and served through whatever international treaties and pacts cover such stuff (maybe including a Canadian court challenge if Jackson chooses to fight it) so they can then send computer forensic experts to examine servers located in a foreign country in 99. 999999% of the cases involving this hobby. The cost / benefit analysis is way out of whack for that to ever occur. No matter how zealous the prosecutors or other politicos driving the train might be, they are operating on tight budgets and aren't going to blow a big chunk of their funds going after mongers and hos. This is the point I was making in an earlier post (#2400). Unless you have the misforture to get caught up on the fringes of some major investigation involving big-time charges against those far up the chain (like a federal racketeering case or something) that has big money budgeted for the prosecution, your statements on boards like this are going to remain in the annonymity that you intended when you posted them. If BJ posts about getting a great BJ from a former stripper calling herself Jade, nobody in LE is going to give a rats ass, except maybe to see if this Jade lady is stupid enough to fall for one of their low budget stings. Like I said in the earlier post, it's the low hanging fruit they are ususally after.

Be safe out there.

[UpForItNow]

Law enforcement cannot use any of this information to obtain a warrant because it is considered hearsay.

BJ,

Actually, warrants are obtained based on hearsay all the time. Informants tell the cops what they heard the suspect say, the informant's statement goes into an affidavit, and a judge who may be a golfing buddy with the prosecutor says that looks like probable cause to him, and presto! A warrant for whatever the prosecutor wants is in his hands. Plus, there are may exceptions and ways around the hearsay rule, including a big one that anything considered an admission by a defendant is going to be admitted in evidence, even at a trial. If a pimp is charged with solicitation or transporting his working girls across state lines, and they have traced explicit online ads with photos, descriptions of services and prices to the IP address of his computer, you can bet those ads will end up in front ot the jury, probably over and over again. Hearsay schearm-say.

That said, you are absolutely right on with the rest of your post. No way are they going to spend the money and effort needed to get subpoenas issued and served through whatever international treaties and pacts cover such stuff (maybe including a Canadian court challenge if Jackson chooses to fight it) so they can then send computer forensic experts to examine servers located in a foreign country in 99. 999999% of the cases involving this hobby. The cost / benefit analysis is way out of whack for that to ever occur. No matter how zealous the prosecutors or other politicos driving the train might be, they are operating on tight budgets and aren't going to blow a big chunk of their funds going after mongers and hos. This is the point I was making in an earlier post (#2400). Unless you have the misforture to get caught up on the fringes of some major investigation involving big-time charges against those far up the chain (like a federal racketeering case or something) that has big money budgeted for the prosecution, your statements on boards like this are going to remain in the annonymity that you intended when you posted them. If BJ posts about getting a great BJ from a former stripper calling herself Jade, nobody in LE is going to give a rats ass, except maybe to see if this Jade lady is stupid enough to fall for one of their low budget stings. Like I said in the earlier post, it's the low hanging fruit they are ususally after.

Be safe out there.

[BobJones2011]

I wanted to bring some "reality" to the usage of posts on this or any other board that discusses the sexual fantasies of men and in some cases women. Law enforcement cannot use any of this information to obtain a warrant because it is considered hearsay. This information CANNOT be substaniated period. Let us assume that they want a warrant on JohnDoe & JaneDoe based on John's postings; what verifiable evidence will LE present to the judge to get a warrant? Then LE will have to serve said warrant on the ISP in a foreign country (in this case the servers are in Canada). No local jurisdiction is going to spend thousands of dollars to execute an evidentary request for documents (electronic media) for a misdemeanour offense. Moreover NONE of the postings on this board can be verified as to the accuracies and / or veracity of the alleged transaction.

With this said LE can use this information to build a profile of the provider and attempt to set-up a sting in which they can gather the necessary evidence for presecution. In most locales the "john" is not targeted but this too is changing; stop the demand-stop the supply philosophy. This is the very reason this board is so important to all "US" hobbyists for research and communicaiton. I have been contacted by what I have deemed LE seeking information on providers; they again contacted me stating they had been with said provider when I knew damn well they had not because we are close friends. They contacted me requesting information on another provider. I have not contacted them to confront them; better left alone to see if I can gather more intelligence on my side.

To close I wnat to assure everyone that this board is safe and Jackson does a fine job of keeping this board safe.

BobJones2011

What is the balance between what information a provider wishes to advertise publicly or privately and what a hobbyist should report to keep hobbyists safe, alert us a rip offs and bad or good experiences, etc? I tend to leave the advertising up to the provider for numerous reasons. What services a provider may be willing to perform on one specific day, or with a specific person may change due to various circumstances, such as comfort level, prior experiences, adding or limiting of services for personal or monetary reasons. The list goes on. Similarly, my or your interest in a specific provider or services desired may change from one day to the next. Neither I or you can vouch for how a new provider will act with the next fellow hobbyist down the road. Personality differences, perhaps she ran out of medicine or her uncle paid her a visit and now wants an introduction to all of us. Knock Knock. Who dare?

My apology to RichardHead57 was part sarcastic, jest and part serious, He found a prior post of mine to be of little value. Now, I might owe him a real apology. It read as follows:

"Please accept my humble apology for your lack of understanding my post. In the future, I shall try to be more descriptive so you may be able to understand what I am trying to convey and provide some information about the experience. Thank you for the advice."

Maybe the last laugh is on me and I am the only one who understood the nonsense of my wording. I apologized for his (Richardhead57) inability to understand my original post and stated I will be more descriptive so he (Richardhead57) may be able to comprehend its meaning. (I suppose. I didn't like his unsolicited criticism, especially when I thought his questions to be inappropriate to a degree. Somewhat imauture of me.)

We walk a fine line between being helpful and informative and providing self incriminating evidence of an illegal activity if it were to occur. Obviously if one posts a sexual experience that was compensated for XXX amount of dollars would clearly be admitting to an illegal act. As BH eluded to earlier, could be used against you or the provider. The government routinely issues administrative subpoenas to Internet providers, cell phone carriers etc. I recently read an article where it is now in the millions of administrative subpoenas per year in the US.

The longer a person participates in illegal activities, logic assumes the odds become greater, at some point he will be pinched by his uncle. On the other hand, with experience comes knowledge to avoid such situations. The longer one does something, usually the wiser he becomes. Everyone from a newbie to a senior, is vulnerable to an aspiring uncle or the trying to make a name for himself. My reasoning is. Treat every question or post with some caution. From myself to the infamous BH.

I concede to BH's experience and request he give us his input or a format on not only what we should or shouldn't post (other than the known mongering rules). But also on what we should or shouldn't ask each other in a public forum that may expose us to legalities that could be subject to such things as administrative or criminal subpoenas. Personally, I would be surprised if all posts and the isp's associated with each account haven't been administratively subpoenaed already (maybe I have paranoid schizophrenic tendencies). Maybe someone reading this has more knowledge about it and can give us their input.

I try in most cases, wether it be online or cell phone, etc. To treat everything you write, as if you might have to explain it in front of a jury one day. A very wise man once told me. You can't catch a fish, if he doesn't open his mouth.

[BigBubbaBobby]

i am acquainted with several leo from various agencies from the gym etc. if i am every chatting with them, and the opportunity arises, i try to get some info on things like this. had one interesting conversation with a metro. he was saying most of the cops could care less about mongering, but like you said, everyone has a boss. and they have a boss. and they have a boss. they try to x number of stings to justify their budget and they will act on any complaints from the public. he said very often when you see a uptake to stings and / or bust it is because some public official is pushing it. he was telling us one case of a local political figure (wouldn't say who) that is rumored to have been either caught by his wife with a provider or she suspected him. in any case, he went on a rampage about "cleaning up" nashville. most likely to get his wife off his case.

i've been a lot of countries where it is either legal or they just don't enforce it. that was works so much better than this.

thailand is a great example. bangkok use to be a haven for **** and sex slaves, prostitution is illegal, but the powers that be decreed that as long as you stay in these "red light" areas, don't have **** or sex slaves and don't do other illegal things like rob people, drugs etc. we will leave you be. break one of those rules, you will be thrown under the jail. end result is they can make money all day long without worrying about the cops, so it not worth the risk to beak any rules.

that could just be leo or political gossip, but, the scenario described would certainly mirror what our mayor did to the "adult entertainment" business when he was the district attorney.

[Dreamseeker]

Anyone been there lately. They have new ads on BP all the time. It has been several years since I was there.

I have been there several times, always left happy. A couple times they strongly pushed upsales after I had given my tip, but I think all these places do that.

[Out Of Towner2]

Anyone been there lately. They have new ads on BP all the time. It has been several years since I was there.

I have been dropping in to this place on a pretty regular basis for the past few years. I was very disappointed only one time. Most of the time it is a real treat. I actually wish they were not posting on BP. I am afraid it will be too much attention to what has be a good thing.

[Kiyakubuke]

all targets targets have value attached to them. as with any selection process, there can be more than one value with a weighted average for the total. everyone has a boss and sooner or later all these deptarments have to account for thier use of funds. without going into a long discussion, the bottom line is unless you make yourself a target of opportunity, piss leo off so they focus on you or just have the misfortune of being setup by a trusted monger or provider they are not going to go to the effort, of course; there is always that one in a million exception so there is no need for everyone to start telling me about a friend of a friend who they know that had this happen to. you would have better odds of hitting the powerball though.

providers have more exposure with real face pics posted on the net but most of them who get caught in stings are greedy and demand the money be handed to them up front or discuss money and sex in same conservation. i know several providers who have never been arrested but they use some common sense and if it looks like things are not on the up and up they walk. when you add drugs and pimps to the equation common sense goes out the window and as such "the low hanging fruit" gets picked for both mongers and providers. since most of them have neither the resources or constution to fight the charges they just plead to whatever will get them the least time in jail. all they want is to get out and get back to the drugs.

i am acquainted with several leo from various agencies from the gym etc. if i am every chatting with them, and the opportunity arises, i try to get some info on things like this. had one interesting conversation with a metro. he was saying most of the cops could care less about mongering, but like you said, everyone has a boss. and they have a boss. and they have a boss. they try to x number of stings to justify their budget and they will act on any complaints from the public. he said very often when you see a uptake to stings and / or bust it is because some public official is pushing it. he was telling us one case of a local political figure (wouldn't say who) that is rumored to have been either caught by his wife with a provider or she suspected him. in any case, he went on a rampage about "cleaning up" nashville. most likely to get his wife off his case.

i've been a lot of countries where it is either legal or they just don't enforce it. that was works so much better than this.

thailand is a great example. bangkok use to be a haven for **** and sex slaves, prostitution is illegal, but the powers that be decreed that as long as you stay in these "red light" areas, don't have **** or sex slaves and don't do other illegal things like rob people, drugs etc. we will leave you be. break one of those rules, you will be thrown under the jail. end result is they can make money all day long without worrying about the cops, so it not worth the risk to beak any rules.

[Bob1918]

Anyone try this one?

http://nashville.backpage.com/Therap...4-0178/6988988

She gave a very sensual massage with HE for $. Her incall is an apartment; more than decent. She is a very nice person. I enjoyed my time but she is a big lady. If you're into the BBWs she is for you but, like I said, not my type so I may not repeat. She hinted that the menu expands.

She said she did 4 hand with Trish and from the sounds of it, they get pretty wild.

[Gibson1970]

Anyone been there lately. They have new ads on BP all the time. It has been several years since I was there.

I've heard good things about it. You can leave with FS or just happy. Ladies a little older and don't look to good naked.

[Daboyz22]

Anyone been there lately. They have new ads on BP all the time. It has been several years since I was there.

[Gotta Run]

Day in and day out, LE tends to focus on the low hanging fruit as far as mongers are concerned. You get caught in a sting, you're toast, but still normally just a misdemeanor, albeit one with embarrassing and possibly devastating personal fallout. OTOH, they normally aren't going to go out of their way to spend a lot of time and effort to research whether you have said something under an annonymous user name on some online forum that will add more proof to what the informant in the sting already has nailed down. They are also not likely to start an investigation with online research and subpoenas, when the only thing ther're going to get out of it is a few misdemeanor charges. Most likely, the same reasoning also applies to the large majority of provider prosecutions. Too high costs and too much effort for too little return.

All targets targets have value attached to them. As with any selection process, there can be more than one value with a weighted average for the total. Everyone has a boss and sooner or later all these deptarments have to account for thier use of funds. Without going into a long discussion, the bottom line is unless you make yourself a target of opportunity, piss LEO off so they focus on you or just have the misfortune of being setup by a trusted monger or provider they are not going to go to the effort, of course; there is always that one in a million exception so there is no need for everyone to start telling me about a friend of a friend who they know that had this happen to. You would have better odds of hitting the Powerball though.

Providers have more exposure with real face pics posted on the net but most of them who get caught in stings are greedy and demand the money be handed to them up front or discuss money and sex in same conservation. I know several providers who have never been arrested but they use some common sense and if it looks like things are not on the up and up they walk. When you add drugs and pimps to the equation common sense goes out the window and as such "the low hanging fruit" gets picked for both mongers and providers. Since most of them have neither the resources or constution to fight the charges they just plead to whatever will get them the least time in jail. All they want is to get out and get back to the drugs.

[Shade47]

Congrats, hope to get there soon.

I just became a senoir hobbyist. How did they know I was so old? .

[UpForItNow]

Sure you can it just takes a little more effort and skill; use a net or a spear.

To "reel this thread in" and get back on topic, I think the OP's main point with the fishing comment was just to be careful out there, and watch what you say that might be used against you one day. Always good advice, but there is a trade-off, if we want meaningful information to be shared around here.

Day in and day out, LE tends to focus on the low hanging fruit as far as mongers are concerned. You get caught in a sting, you're toast, but still normally just a misdemeanor, albeit one with embarrassing and possibly devastating personal fallout. OTOH, they normally aren't going to go out of their way to spend a lot of time and effort to research whether you have said something under an annonymous user name on some online forum that will add more proof to what the informant in the sting already has nailed down. They are also not likely to start an investigation with online research and subpoenas, when the only thing ther're going to get out of it is a few misdemeanor charges. Most likely, the same reasoning also applies to the large majority of provider prosecutions. Too high costs and too much effort for too little return.

Where online statements could come back to haunt you would be in the pretty unlikely event that a provider you have reviewed in lurid detail is part of a bigger and more serious investigation (like an interstate trafficing scheme or an organized crime investigation or something). Then some zealous prosecutor might want to go to the effort of locating customers to flip under a threat of charges, and maybe then think about subpoenas to learn the identity of a few online loudmouths. Assuming your online accounts are tied to an e-mail account under a fictitious name, they then have to connect the dots through IP addresses, which admittedly is not that hard if they know what they're doing, but still takes some effort. All in all, it's a risk that seems pretty remote in a hobby that is full of all kinds of immediate and serious risks every time we indulge. The basic point to be cautious is still worth remembering, but IMHO it's not too likely that someone is out there scouring the sites looking just to catch us monger fishes. Just my 2 cents.