"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[Zomby]

Interesting observation JG. I have to admit that I wonder about many of these SBs who were brought up in decent homes, probably taught appropriate moral behavior, and who are willing to sell themselves. Of course we SDs are buying so we are complicit in perpetuating the the system.

Fortunately, some of us aren't engaged in anything immoral, so we don't have to worry about feeling that way. (:

/z

[Revvo]

Man I feel like I am studying for my PHD SD / SB. I have been reading the forum for four straight days now and I am about 50% through it. I am so glad I found this site. I must thank the great Magic Rat for that. I am not very close to the Richmond area (Florida) but this site seems to have national status. Amazing. There is I believe an incredible need out there on both sides and this forum helps with that.

At Zomby, I hear ya man. I am a little worried but not too much. The chance of getting HIV infection from one unprotected encounter is 1 in 5, 000, 000 (JAMA) there is a lot of scare bullshit going on out there. In fact for a male outside of a high risk group through intercourse getting infected is almost non existent.

For HPV it is more likely but still not so common and most strains (there are 100) of HPV the commercials and scare ads don't tell you is that they are harmless and go away on their own. Only about two strains are really dangerous.

Now getting struck by lightning is 1 in 8500 in your lifetime. So yes there is risk. But so is this hobby. And so is being outside in a thunderstorm and I have done that a lot.

I agree on the other point about them trying to tempt me back into the club. I am sure some of them want to do this. But it does not work for me because I am never going to spend that much on them in the club. As I would OTC.

So to continue I have two more stripper / sugar babies that I recruited via visits to clubs.

#3 We will call her M.

This one is probably in the looks department as close to a 10 as I have gotten interest in. She works for a very famous club and is absolutely gorgeous. Someone recently told me that the 9's and 10's are easier to get out of the club than the lower looking ones. Because they so need validation of how hot and desirable they are. And this beautiful young thing proves this out. She is about 5'6" with a very thin athletic build, man this body is toned. Could not weigh more than 105lbs. She is blond with the most piercing dark eyes. She has perfect erect puppy dog nose breasts, and an ass you could serve a beer on. This is a limited touch club and she crawled over me like a cat in heat.

I would give her a 9 head and a 10 body. I have had her dance for me on three occasions and I know she has seen me in the club a few times other than that. I did the same kind of thing. Worked on her with as much charm as I could muster. And slowly started to get away with more than what is allowed in the club. And she let me. One time she stopped me. But then turned around and smiled at me and told me I was bad. This was in a very good way. Next time she did not stop me. Many kisses later when she was done dancing I asked her that magic question. And she immediately gave me her number and made sure I got it right and even showed me on her phone very discreetly that she got my test call.

I texted her a followup after leaving the club but no response. Then about a week later she texts me and tells me out of the blue. She is out of town trying to make some money at another club and it aint going well. So I tell her I can help her out, but she would have to help me out too. She immediately says OK. I tell her I will text her when she gets back into town. I did a follow up text but no reply so far. I believe we are at that point where Golf has talked extensively about. Where she is trying to accept how far she will go. And I am at the point where I need to not push the string. I am staying polite and giving her space. I learned this here and I believe many times in the past this is where I fucked up. Not going to happen this time. I am going to give her a little space and let her come to the sugar. But it aint easy. I can see that sweet little apple bottom ass in my minds eye with that perfect pink pussy just winking at me. Cold shower please?

On to #4 we will call her R:

I don't know what it is but these mixed raced latinas have been really working me over lately. So I go into this high end club that C works at since she could not make it that day. And when I go in there she is a awesome 20 yo. 5'5" melado latina. That had the body of a goddess and the face of an angel. Amazing thing was she was friendly bright happy vivacious and no dude was even paying her any attention. But those dried up old skanks in there had plenty of attention. I will never understand this. I have to say with me. I am not in this hobby for ugly or fat or skanky broads I appreciate beauty.

Anyway she was so cute. I would give her a 9 head and a 10 body. And the most perfect silky smooth almond colored skin. And hair. Many girls of this complexion don't exactly have the best hair. But this one had a head of hair like Liz Taylor when Liz was hot. And she was so cool to talk to. I came all the way across the club to go and get her. And she told me later that she really liked it when a man does this. Assertiveness is a turn on to women. They want a man to be a man. To lead and set the tone. I think this is a very little understood part of the SD / SB subculture, the dominance and assertiveness of a mature man vs the weak effeminate boys that these girls date on a regular basis. But that is for another day.

She sat with me and did some dances and they were out of this world. I almost surely thought we were going to get busted. She did everything I told her and more. And she wanted to please me. She has only been working for 6 weeks and she knows how to please already. Once again did not show any interest in the money. These are all good signs. She has a regular job and she is a student at the local Community College. Sophomore studying HR Management.

We talked and she easily gave me her number. I had to go and I texted her a few times but she was not very responsive. But today I had a couple of hours between appointments and I decided to see if she was working. I texted her and she was so I came in. When I got there she jumped into my arms and we had an even better session. Then she would curl up with me and snuggle and slowly stoke my cock through my pants in a way that no one could see. Remember this is a no touch club. It was awesome. It was all I could not to bust one right there in my pants.

So I told her to blow off work on Friday at the club and meet me. She had agreed to meet me earlier now it was just an issue of logistics. She was thinking about it and I know she wants to but she did not fully commit. I told her no pressure. Thanks again Golf, don't push the string. I got to let her come to the sugar. So we will see how this goes.

What do you guys think? Am I getting anywhere? Am I screwing up?

I have not registered for the SA site but I hear you guys say that you do not use your real name. Do you create a fake name or a handle like we use on here?

Thanks for all of the help.

[Spitfire]

Interesting observation JG. I have to admit that I wonder about many of these SBs who were brought up in decent homes, probably taught appropriate moral behavior, and who are willing to sell themselves. Of course we SDs are buying so we are complicit in perpetuating the the system. On one hand I am grateful that we are able to "help" these needy young women but at what cost? This phenomenon goes waaaay beyond a small % of girls. SA has published numbers which I forget at the moment but they are significant. So even excluding the desperately needy unemployed and single mothers, middle class college girls are casually seeking easy money to make ends meet, or even to gain a thrill, add to that wardrobe, whatever the motivation. I asked several therapists who see these girls what is up? The answer is financial need, on line opportunity, and a desensitizing of moral limits brought on by the Madonna, Brittany, Paris, Kardashian role models. Girls are shown that they, like men, can use their sexuality to forward their agenda in life. Exit June Cleaver and Doris Day. Which attitude is better? Probably somewhere in the middle. I know that I don't want my daughter in the Sugar Bowl. A double standard? You betcha. See you on SA

Every SB I've had, every one, has had some sort of Daddy issue.

[Hernando]

Interesting observation JG. I have to admit that I wonder about many of these SBs who were brought up in decent homes, probably taught appropriate moral behavior, and who are willing to sell themselves. Of course we SDs are buying so we are complicit in perpetuating the the system. On one hand I am grateful that we are able to "help" these needy young women but at what cost? This phenomenon goes waaaay beyond a small % of girls. SA has published numbers which I forget at the moment but they are significant. So even excluding the desperately needy unemployed and single mothers, middle class college girls are casually seeking easy money to make ends meet, or even to gain a thrill, add to that wardrobe, whatever the motivation. I asked several therapists who see these girls what is up? The answer is financial need, on line opportunity, and a desensitizing of moral limits brought on by the Madonna, Brittany, Paris, Kardashian role models. Girls are shown that they, like men, can use their sexuality to forward their agenda in life. Exit June Cleaver and Doris Day. Which attitude is better? Probably somewhere in the middle. I know that I don't want my daughter in the Sugar Bowl. A double standard? You betcha. See you on SA

[John G Smith]

interesting. $3-4000 a month? damn!

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/f...n37rlfd9jzdnsi

the average is no where close to $3-4k a month. i'm sure the sa spokeswoman just threw that out there as a promotional tool to get more coed sign-ups to the site.

but i do think we're in the "golden age" of the sugar world. basically a combination of a lethargic economy and sd sites coming into prominence is causing there to be a boom for us men. we don't even have to be mufti-millionaire sds. you basically just need to be a guy who knows how to manage his finances and has some disposable cash to play with per month. and even though we got annoyed with the hype from the sugar daddy blogs, it's those blogs that push "normal" college girls and struggling women into the moral gray area of the sugar world by hyping up unrealistic prince charming sd scenarios. some girls will leave the sugar world after understanding the reality of things, but others will stay and try to get something out of it that is modest but still helpful.

a few months ago, i think i brokedown both sds and sbs into tiers. essentially the small percentage of model 10 girls will be gobbled up by the small percentage of super rich sds. most of the blog fantasies are written about this small percentage. of course there's always exceptions. and there's still a ton of very attractive sbs that might not be willing to be a super rich guy's pet but are more open to a presentable well-off looking sd who can occasionally help them out while they continue with their regular life. basically right now during the golden age, any sd is capable of getting an attractive girl and the sb supply far outstrips the legit sds.

that said, i do think we probably have just a couple more years of the golden age. as the sugar world gets more and more publicity, eventually the puritans of america will step in and start making things difficult. and it just takes for 1-2 bad stories such as a sd sleeping with an **** sb or a sd having some kind of sex dungeon with multiple college babies for the whole thing to come crashing down. nothing last forever and i have a feeling we're close to reaching critical mass where just by the numbers something bad will happen that will get public attention.

that's why i like to reach out to sbs i haven't seen in a while, just to keep in touch. you never know when the whole thing could go underground.

[Exacta Picker]

Interesting. $3-4000 a month? Damn!

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/fees_coeds_looking_for_sugar_daddies_XpBL7EERN37rlfD9jzDNsI

[Zomby]

Despite my own experience in this area, I would not hold out much hope for for getting stripper as a sugar baby, per se. You might get a regular OTC thing going, which can be quite as good, so it's not a worthless pursuit. (:

But now I was worried about STD's and pregnancy. Man what a stupid thing I did! I got a STD test two weeks later. I used one of the online test outfits which is aligned with a very large national laboratory chain. It was extremely discreet and well worth the $230 to know I was clean of everything, a full 8 panel test.

Not to scare you too much, but two weeks is not long enough to wait for all of them. You should get tested at least once every eight weeks for the next six months. Some of the bacterial things can take several weeks to ferment in your body, depending on your age, health and resistance. HSV and HIV can take longer to show up in blood work.

I have been told by SC Mongers that the original money will come down over time. Just all on its own just don't be too available. But what I have read here tells me the opposite. The experts on here refer to the original price is the bar you set for now and forever and it will only go up. Is there any thoughts on this?

My experience has been the same as your "SC Mongers". It might be different for sugar babies, I don't have a wide enough experience with enough of them to say, but strippers can start to look at you as an easy source of quick cash, and will often start to accept less just to get some in their pocket. Especially if you let them call you once in a while.

We went back and forth on the phone and texting for a couple of weeks and our schedules conflicted a lot. But she was always anxious to get together and every time we tried something came up for her or me. She never stood me up. She would always text me to let me know.

I hope this works out for you. That is classic stripper deflection behavior though, designed to get you back in the club and spending on her. If you have been back to the club since she started doing this, then you might be out of luck. But if you decline to spend as much in the club and use the "I'd rather see you get it all than having to share it with the club" type of approach, it may eventually work out for you. If she stops calling or answering when you do that, you'll have your answer.

/z

[Hernando]

" The experts on here refer to the original price is the bar you set for now and forever and it will only go up. I " Revvo.

Absolutely correct. Strippers and other professionals are experienced at piecework and everything has an upcharge. You admittedly made a rookie mistake in not evaluating the market, so you need to go back and demand what YOU think is fair. You are the boss by the way, the man with the gold. He who pays says. (who said that?) What you have to be able to do is walk away from the table if her needs are out of sync with yours. At first you think " how can I be so lucky that this hot chick will sleep with me for any price?" You have to get to the point where you think " This chick is lucky to get a guy like me for $50 / night " Read Big Tigg entrys. He is the master of low cost high performance SBs. I figure he must be hotter than the rest of us to get these ladies to open up to him for so little.

Another axiom " the hotter the daddy, the cheaper the Lassie " (Confucius)" The older and less in shape the more you will have to spend to open up the cookie jar." (Peanuts)

My advice is to meet newbie SBs. They are not hardened to the economics yet and are more grateful with a regular gent who takes care of her needs. Also avoid Nando 1s. Their needs are never ending.

[BigTigger]

Great report, you seem to be on the right path. Taking strategic chances, learning from your mistakes and keeping at it. I'm sure you will do well in the Sugar Bowl.

I have some other updates to give, but I'll have to get to those later.

BigTigg

[EuroInCincy]

Revvo,

I'm not giving these garden tools jack on a M&G. The M&G is a job interview. Pure and simple. When was the last time an employer paid you for your time for a job interview. Expenses to travel and go through the interview yes. Pay no.

Subcmdr out!

I fully agree with the cmdr. Shoot most I have done do is fill up their tank. But that was only after she did the full oral passing part of the job interview.

C'mon how much does it really cost to drive to an interview. 100 miles. So 3- 4 gallons. See'mon if they ask for that. They are toooo desperate.

[Revvo]

Thanks guys for the advice on the gift thing. I will stay away from that for now. I have read about half way through the entire thread and I am learning a lot. I really like to get advice when I can. I have made enough expensive mistakes along the way and appreciate all of your words of wisdom.

So I want to give a brief summary of where I am right now and what my current experiences have been. I have not subscribed to any of the SD sites yet because I am still reading all of the adventures on here. But I have had some success and failures with my attempts into the Stripper world. I know this does not quite fit in with the whole SB thing but it is where I am coming from.

We will call my first one RSSB1 for Revvo Stripper Sugar Baby:

RSSB1: Met her in a SC not too far from my hometown. But she lives in the same city that I do but not too close. She was easily the best looking thing in the club. After some small talk she danced for me and it was great. I progressively got more and more mileage to the point of something was going to happen to get us in trouble. Then I asked her for what it would take to talk her out of here. She offered me her number. Right away. Now there were a couple of good things about this girl. First she is absolutely gorgeous blond, blue eyed a good 8 head and 8 body, about 5'4" and a great rack 27 yo, two kids. She is really cool never even asked me for the money. In fact she had to get up for a few minutes to go onstage and I had not even paid her. This is amazing for a stripper. But I did pay her and she did not even count it. I texted her the following week and we met in the club again. The dances were even hotter and it went amazing. Now a week later I texted her to set up a meeting to play. She agreed and asked for $400. Being a newbie I screwed up here I agreed to the price and did not attempt to negotiate. Now reading on here I believe I went too high. We met for lunch and went to the hotel. I had a 4* beautiful hotel for $58 from hotwire. Great deal. We drank some more wine in the hotel bar and went upstairs.

Man the sex was amazing. She was very accommodating BBBJ, BBFS, she was all over my cock and great dirty talk. 2nd Mistake I lost my mind and never put a condom on and she never even asked. Afterward she had told me she was clean and never did that kind of thing. We fucked for about an hour 2 pops no rushing and she came I believe twice. I pounded that pussy every which way I could think of. But now I was worried about STD's and pregnancy. Man what a stupid thing I did! I got a STD test two weeks later. I used one of the online test outfits which is aligned with a very large national laboratory chain. It was extremely discreet and well worth the $230 to know I was clean of everything, a full 8 panel test.

Anyway we left and the whole time she was asking me to call her soon to get together again. It was a great GFE. Lots of affection and touching and kissing and talking nice time.

I met her two weeks later for a 2nd rendezvous and we did drinks and a hotel. Before we got to the hotel she texted me and asked for $500 and I said no. She accepted and we were back to the $400. Now she was starting to get into more money. We went into the hotel and had a good time but not quite as great this time. A little rushed not too bad. But not like last time. We get along really great and she is great to hang out with as well as fuck. But I did feel a little distance. Will try to set something up in a little while but I want to wait first. One bad thing is she drinks a lot. This could be a problem.

I have been told by SC Mongers that the original money will come down over time. Just all on its own just don't be too available. But what I have read here tells me the opposite. The experts on here refer to the original price is the bar you set for now and forever and it will only go up. Is there any thoughts on this? Meanwhile on to other opportunities.

The second one we will call C. She is a very sexy 21 yo mixed race latina stripper at a local high end club. She is about a 7. 5 head and a 8. 5 body. She is kind of thick but in a very good way. Very athletic build. Not an ounce of fat. However she is fairly new to the game about 6 months and she has this beautiful wild bedroom hair, and oh so sexy ass and legs. She is very sweet and genuinely seems interested in me. We will see.

This club does not offer any extras so mongering in here can be hit or miss. I put the best game I could on her got some dances and actually got her to break the rules quite a bit. This to me is a good sign. Another one that did not ask for her money. And waited for me to give it to her. I asked her the same question, about takeout and she readily gave me her number. We went back and forth on the phone and texting for a couple of weeks and our schedules conflicted a lot. But she was always anxious to get together and every time we tried something came up for her or me. She never stood me up. She would always text me to let me know. Finally this weekend I texted her and she said she was having problems with rent and new semester tuition. She is a junior at a major university in town. I have verified this.

So I tell her. Sweetie I can help you out with this but you will have to help me out also. Right away she responds with I can do that. No issue of money or any negotiating. Good sign.

So I am looking at this week for this one. Will set up later this week. Any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated. I have two more but will need to be continued on the next post. Getting late. I may let these two and the two others play out. And by that time I may be ready to transition over to the full SD / SB websites.

[Hernando]

Welcome Rev,

If the M&G is in the FC or the SB's residence I always bring flowers. In fact, I give live plants so that is the gift that keeps on giving, if she nurtures it well. My last precious ATF HCB could have started a florist shop over the 1 1/2 years we were together. After we broke up she probably did. The nice thing about not giving a lot of expensive jewelry is that you aren't financing her next semester tuition after the fact knowing the minute you are apart she will sell it for precious metal value.

If you meet in public or your own house the meal / drink is the gift.

[CantWinLosin]

Welcome, Revvo. I back up what the others have said. I don't see up-front sugar doing anything but setting a bad precedent. I always make the first meet at Panera's for lunch or coffee. As Scotty noted, such a place is safe, convenient, inexpensive and a good first test of the baby's attitudes and expectations. If she hesitates or indicates that she expects a fancier place, it's a big tell on how she'll behave later.

I have on two occasions offered to pay for the baby's gas, when she was driving a considerable distance. One of those turned out to be a complete mismatch once we met FTF, but I kept my promise; the other one was orally appreciative before she left. Otherwise, I've never offered up-front sugar without FC time, and if a girl indicates that she expects it, I take it as fair warning of unrealistic expectations.

As for strippers, I have a hard and fast rule: no pros, and that includes strippers. Especially strippers, in fact. You will on very rare occasions find a "hooker with a heart of gold", but you will never find a stripper that's such. A hooker is (usually) used to making a straight-up business transaction and knows that she has to deliver her side of the bargain, but a stripper's whole job is to swindle you into giving them as much money as possible while they give you as little as possible, and stats show that most strippers do it at least in part because they have serious man-hate issues. I have run across at least a dozen strippers that are seeking SDs, and *every one* I've talked to had really unrealistic expectations as to what the market will bear and what they are willing to do for it. The couple I've tried out were horrible lays to boot, whining about giving head and generally being really dead fucks. So no, no strippers, ever.

[F Scott]

First let me add my welcome to the Clubhouse, Rev. As has been said, this is the best thread on the forum, and you will find all of the brothers more than willing to share intel, tactics, successes and failures. Good luck to you in your pursuits.

As for gifts at the first m&g, I side with those who see it as unnecessary, and perhaps even as setting a bad precedent. I try to arrange the first meeting at a Starbucks or some place like that for a couple of reasons: it's public and open, which should make you both feel comfortable; limited time committment - the length it takes to drink a coffee if things are going badly which can easily be extended if things are going well; minimal cost - I do always pay for her beverage, and a muffin or other thing like that if she wants it, but rarely does this top $10. The one time I offered to pay for gas, the baby blew up, saying if that was all she was worth to me then this obviously wasn't the arena I should be dabbling in! Huh? This was before we had even met!

Having said all this, if there seems to be a solid connection, and the forecast calls for a trip to the FC on the near horizon, I do like to show a little affection in the form of a gift card, a bottle of wine or champagne, or something else that she might have mentioned in your conversation, like a scarf or perfume - something that shows that you were listening and are a sensitive, thoughtful guy. Since I prefer the artistic, creative types, a really nice sketchbook and a dozen pencils often does the trick. It is amazing what 20 or 30 dollars spent in this manner can gain you in rewards later on. I stress, though, that this is only after I feel there is promise in the situation. I think of it as a token, not a bribe.

Again, welcome to the club, good luck in your endeavors,

And don't forget to write!

Scott

[Zomby]

Take this for what it's worth. I have also spent a lot of years chasing dancers for takeout and dine-in. I stumbled into being a sugar daddy, and have only had this one baby.

But I did have one small question. Do you bring a gift to the first meeting or M&G with a prospective SB?

Are you contemplating attempting to turn a stripper into a SB? If so, I would definitely suggest holding back the "gifts" until some period of time after the sugar has started to flow your way on a consistent basis; strippers will suck you dry, and not in the good way, in a heartbeat if you let them, though if you've been doing the strip club thing for a while, you already know that. (:

If you're talking about availing yourself of any the various sugar related sites on the internet, it might be a different story. A M&G for a non-stripper sounds like it's going to be a significantly different vibe than the relatively simple business transaction it is with most strippers.

If so what is considered an approriate gift? Something small I would think?

Based on the discussions I've seen here, the consensus seems to be that the coffee / lunch / dinner part of the M&G is sufficient. Gas money might also be appropriate in some cases.

/z