"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

**Majest** · 10-22-12 11:55

Originally Posted by FeelGoodMd [View Original Post]

Majest,

Welcome to the Bowl. What I (and many of the other members of this site, I'm sure) did was start here (

http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/sh...or-Not/page150

And read forward. You will get a lot of great information, inspiration, and entertainment (often simultaneously, for that matter).

That's my prescription for the newbie in the Bowl.

Dr. Feelgood

Thank for the help, I will start form that post. Was kind of hoping you would point me to a site that is good at finding SB.

**John G Smith** · 10-22-12 03:54

Originally Posted by HollywoodGuy [View Original Post]

Http://meridianstar.com/statenews/x6...on-sting/print

After many hours of searching this is the only thing I came up with. And in the end he beat the case.

Interesting. And here's the official dismissal from the judge:

http://slabbed.files.wordpress.com/2...-dismissal.pdf

To summarize what happened basically a guy was using SD4Me to find SBs. One of his co-workers saw him using the site and reported him to the FBI (what a dick). BTW, another co-worker just happen to be an ex-FBI official. The FBI then specifically targeted to go after this one man. They used two vice girls to basically entrap him. No one else was the target or pursued.

And there hasn't been a prior or future case against a SD aside from this case at the Federal level. The case reeks of a personal vendetta rather than some new FBI mandate to pursue sugar daddies.

Again, a SD isn't 100% immune from LE activity. But this case shows just how much effort it takes to catch one SD and they failed at that. They were hoping for a Federal charge to make it worthwhile because it's not worth the time and resources just for a misdemeanor solicitation charge at the state level, which usually only carries a $200 fine or 6 months in jail.

**HollywoodGuy** · 10-21-12 23:52

Originally Posted by john g smith [View Original Post]

i think some of you are blowing the legal issue out of proportion. as hernando mentioned, there's pretty much a miniscule chance you'll get busted for prostitution in the sugar bowl. i've haven't heard of a single case anywhere of a sugar daddy getting busted for propositioning an of-aged sb. again, as hernando noted police want to net as much johns as possible per sting. it's about arrest stats, revenue from fines, and sometimes election year publicity. going after sugar daddies who are located all over geographically and have erratic schedules for meets would take a lot more time, effort, and patience from le. it's a lot easier for them to create a bp ad and setup a sting in a local hotel and net a 10-20 local mongers in one night.

also when i negotiate over text / email, i don't mean you should be overly graphic. i never say "i'll give you 80 for a bbbj every time we meet and 150 for bbfs". what i do say is that i'm looking for an arrangement that has physical intimacy. and then later on i may give an offer like this,"how about i gave you a monthly allowance of 1000-1200, which i'll give it to you in pieces 200-300 per meet." no where i'm explicitly saying i'm paying for a sexual act. i'm just giving my sb a monthly allowance which i'm paying in installments or i'm just giving her money on our dates. nothing illegal with that. sure i'm making implications that part of the parameters of our relationship is that we become "intimate". but again that's not illegal and le would have a hell of a time trying to draw lines with absolute certainty that i'm paying directly for sex acts. otherwise le would have to arrest everyone who gets on one knee and proposes to his girlfriend to be his wife. using an expensive engagement ring as payment, the guy is proposing a relationship that with absolute certainty will have sex involved. in fact, marriage isn't even official until a sex act is committed. so it's actually very hard to draw a legal line of distinction between a sd / sb relationship and a regular relationship.

besides, if le really wanted to nab sugar daddies, they could very well have the sb wear a recording device and then have le grab you when you leave the restaurant. saying things face to face doesn't give you anymore safety than text / email if le really wants to get you.

but still, i think there's little to worry about. maybe down the line if there is some serial sugar daddy predator who gets major headlines, then le may take a bigger interest in this arena. but for now it's pretty much unmonitored. again, our biggest threat is making sure we avoid the **** babies. it doesn't take a sting for you to get in trouble, it just takes an angry parent / friend / brother / sister who calls the police on you. so tread carefully with babies in the 18-20 range. any baby under 20, i always verify their age by asking for their facebook page. usually this is enough.

and some people are misinterpreting me and think i'm saying i believe in "no m&gs". that's not what i'm saying. i'm just saying do a little more vigorous pre-screening before you do a m&g. before you buy her dinner / drinks and waste your time, make sure she's pretty much already down with the program. that way you're basically just using the m&g to verify her appearance and any personality quirks. and if everything looks good, chances are high you could proceed to the fc right after the m&g if time permits.

i'm just saying, i'm hearing a lot of guys here complaining about girls wasting their time or being no-shows at m&gs. so i'm just saying move the m&g to "stage 2 or 3", don't have it as your first step.

http://meridianstar.com/statenews/x6...on-sting/print

after many hours of searching this is the only thing i came up with. and in the end he beat the case.

**CantWinLosin** · 10-21-12 21:36

You need to empty out your inbox, my man.

**CantWinLosin** · 10-21-12 14:50

Preface: IANAL.

That said, I think legal worries are not a factor. The legal definition of the misdemeanor of soliciting requires specific things, which generally means an actual solicitation must happen to meet the criteria. Unless you are a fool, you're not going to blatantly solicit the girl at the M&G, and the cops are not going to invest tons of time and place an officer or CI in the risky situation of going to a private place alone with you to get to write a misdemeanor ticket.

But more importantly, there's a reason the solicitation and prostitution laws are worded as they are: the requirements remove all reasonable doubt that what's happening is *not* straight-up sex-for-money. Once you drop below that threshold, the slope gets very slippery indeed. What's the difference between a sugar arrangement developed with someone you found on SA, and meeting a random girl in a bar with whom you develop a financially- and sexually-involved relationship? How and why does the simple method of initially connecting push the situation over the bounds of legality? (It doesn't.)

In the end, *all* relationships are barter. Two people work together (or not) because they give things the other needs and need things the other gives. Somewhere along the line, those things usually include money and sex. If simply tying money and sex in a relationship was illegal, every marriage in the country would be a felony.

The cops are only interested in catching people in clearly-defined criminal activity, and the easier and safer it is the more they like it. While they might decide to try a sting op for this, it would have to be very carefully designed and planned and executed, all for the high likelihood that the cases would be dismissed. Much easier and safer to sting a bunch of poor working schmucks trying to pick up a streetwalker.

**Dog Rice** · 10-21-12 14:26

YMMV. I don't have much luck in San Diego. In both SA and SD4M. I suggest you try. .

Originally Posted by Albert619 [View Original Post]

I'm in san diego CA, what is the best site to find a good sugar baby in local areas? Email me

**Albert619** · 10-21-12 14:10

I'm in san diego CA, what is the best site to find a good sugar baby in local areas? Email me

**CantWinLosin** · 10-21-12 14:05

Originally Posted by Zomby [View Original Post]

I don't think it's completely fair to say that everyone's time is wasted. It absolutely is a waste of your time, and would be of mine if I was yet in search mode on this one. However, a compensated non-sexual relationship is certainly a legitimate goal, and there are guys out there who want exactly that, however ludicrous most, if not all, the posters on this particular forum would find such a thing.

You are, of course, correct that there are some guys out there that would accept a non-sexual sugar scenario. But I strongly doubt that there are any in my neck of the woods. This being the South and the buckle of the bible belt, it's pretty much social suicide for a guy to be seen in public with a half-his-age piece of arm candy. That can fly in cosmopolitan places that are used to it, like LA or NYC, but this ain't that sort of place. Hell, a couple weekends ago I was sitting in the waiting area of an restaurant on the other side of town, waiting for a pot to arrive for a M&G, when in walked a woman that's on a civic committee I'm on (I caught the pot outside and we went elsewhere.) That's even more true for the married SDs. As someone else said, if I want arm candy for some social event, she needs to be at least 40 (and I have several friends that can and have served in that capacity.)

So while a non-sexual connection may be a valid desire for some sexy young thing, it's probably not be a realistic one in many places.

**CantWinLosin** · 10-21-12 13:44

Originally Posted by ILikeHotWomen [View Original Post]

Did these "babies" have the same profiles before you met up with them?

No. If they indicate anything that smells like GPS, I pass. But I do seem to be a catalyst for profile changes; several ladies have changed their profile once they asked me what I was looking for or "how does this work?" and I gave them an direct and honest (though polite) answer.

**Rainjam** · 10-21-12 12:30

I from experience, second the wisdom of Mr. HollywoodGuy.

About 20% of girls I dealt saw my maturity as a big factor on their decision to share their honey.

About 30% of the girls that I met ask too much. At least for me, over $$$. IMHO, these girls quickly learn that only a few pool of players exist at that dollar range and they demand return on their investment with acts or requirements that quickly scare and drive non-pros out of the game. Again, in IMHO, patience is our allied here. Once girls realize the going market, they are more likely to be reasonable in their demands as they find they have a bigger pool to interview for the chemistry that's so important to them with the safety they want and the honey they need.

I have also found a number of gals who happen to stumble into my ads purely for the fantasy of meeting someone who is into the game. Some success and with more time and effort, these gals may prove to be a steady stream of honey.

My last point is the "fantasy" or the need for companionship that we bring to this game. I have experienced a good number of the girls that I have dealt with are drawn to the experience be / see of the sugar but also because of the fantasy, the illicitness, etc.

Originally Posted by HollywoodGuy [View Original Post]

After having interviewed hundreds of girls on the sugar daddy sites. All the girls agree on one thing. The direct approach is always best. Tell the girl exactly what it is you are looking for and exactly how much you are willing to pay. I get turned down a lot as I am on a tight budget. But after years of doing this I also have a few regulars and see about one random girl a week.

Most girls on a sugar daddy site don't really know what they want other than they want to have good chemistry for what ever it is they consider fair compensation. And this is where really talking to a lot of girls pays off. On the one extreme you have average looking girls asking for way too much. And on the other you have beautiful looking girls willing to take far less if you can show them a good time in bed, show some patience and understanding, and can offer some good conversation and advice.

There is also a contingent of girls under 25 that only want men over 50. Sometimes its more of a sexual fantasy and sometimes its more for the stability and maturity only an older guy can offer. Sorry, but most guys under 35 don't think the same as someone over lets say 55. I never would have imagined that I would be at the peak of my desirability at 58.

All I know is the demand from the girls far outstrips the supply of what I have to offer. Oh poor me. LOL. Once the girls have been out in the sugar world for any length of time they realize the odds are against them as there is so much competition. Part of that is living in los angeles. Where every decent looking girl in the world moves thinking they are going to break into hollywood one way or another.

But conversely in the more out of the way places its almost worse for the girls as the number of sugar daddies is much more far and in between. All I know is that neither the guys nor the girls need to settle for what they don't really want as there is ample enough supply on both sides. If you put in the time. To make everyone happy.

Typically they all have one friend that introduces them to this or they saw a show on tyra or where ever. And some do come straight out of the box and get lucky. But most do not. So if you are a good guy, are willing to be a little patient and not bs these girls too much. You will eventually find what you are looking for and for the amount you can afford.

**Mr Strict** · 10-21-12 09:30

Over the past couple of month's or so, the followers of the forum have taken a couple of swift kicks in the nuts (sorry Mandy!) with Hernando's relationship with his ATF being exposed and JoesParty contracting HSV-2 from his sb. It seemed to be the 800 lb sugar baby in the forum for awhile with no one commenting much, at least not what I would expect.

So, my question is: How and if these events have affected how you conduct your game. Has anyone quit? Doing things radically different? Or do you feel it just isn't a big concern and you have changed nothing. For myself, I stepped back and reevaluated how I was conducting my business and tighten everything up a bit. Obviously, if you're not married, being outed that way is a not real concern. But having work find out possibly could be. And disease is always a concern, and what has been stated before cannot be repeated too often: This will never be a 100 percent safe hobby. So, I was just wondering what is everyone's take on the whole thing.

Wrap him and Stay Safe.

Strict

**Mr Strict** · 10-21-12 08:56

Originally Posted by john g smith [View Original Post]

i think some of you are blowing the legal issue out of proportion. as hernando mentioned, there's pretty much a miniscule chance you'll get busted for prostitution in the sugar bowl. i've haven't heard of a single case anywhere of a sugar daddy getting busted for propositioning an of-aged sb. again, as hernando noted police want to net as much johns as possible per sting. it's about arrest stats, revenue from fines, and sometimes election year publicity. going after sugar daddies who are located all over geographically and have erratic schedules for meets would take a lot more time, effort, and patience from le. it's a lot easier for them to create a bp ad and setup a sting in a local hotel and net a 10-20 local mongers in one night.

also when i negotiate over text / email, i don't mean you should be overly graphic. i never say "i'll give you 80 for a bbbj every time we meet and 150 for bbfs". what i do say is that i'm looking for an arrangement that has physical intimacy. and then later on i may give an offer like this,"how about i gave you a monthly allowance of 1000-1200, which i'll give it to you in pieces 200-300 per meet." no where i'm explicitly saying i'm paying for a sexual act. i'm just giving my sb a monthly allowance which i'm paying in installments or i'm just giving her money on our dates. nothing illegal with that. sure i'm making implications that part of the parameters of our relationship is that we become "intimate". but again that's not illegal and le would have a hell of a time trying to draw lines with absolute certainty that i'm paying directly for sex acts. otherwise le would have to arrest everyone who gets on one knee and proposes to his girlfriend to be his wife. using an expensive engagement ring as payment, the guy is proposing a relationship that with absolute certainty will have sex involved. in fact, marriage isn't even official until a sex act is committed. so it's actually very hard to draw a legal line of distinction between a sd / sb relationship and a regular relationship.

besides, if le really wanted to nab sugar daddies, they could very well have the sb wear a recording device and then have le grab you when you leave the restaurant. saying things face to face doesn't give you anymore safety than text / email if le really wants to get you.

but still, i think there's little to worry about. maybe down the line if there is some serial sugar daddy predator who gets major headlines, then le may take a bigger interest in this arena. but for now it's pretty much unmonitored. again, our biggest threat is making sure we avoid the **** babies. it doesn't take a sting for you to get in trouble, it just takes an angry parent / friend / brother / sister who calls the police on you. so tread carefully with babies in the 18-20 range. any baby under 20, i always verify their age by asking for their facebook page. usually this is enough.

and some people are misinterpreting me and think i'm saying i believe in "no m&gs". that's not what i'm saying. i'm just saying do a little more vigorous pre-screening before you do a m&g. before you buy her dinner / drinks and waste your time, make sure she's pretty much already down with the program. that way you're basically just using the m&g to verify her appearance and any personality quirks. and if everything looks good, chances are high you could proceed to the fc right after the m&g if time permits.

i'm just saying, i'm hearing a lot of guys here complaining about girls wasting their time or being no-shows at m&gs. so i'm just saying move the m&g to "stage 2 or 3", don't have it as your first step.

i agree with mr. smith and hernando that the possible legal entanglements involved with playing the game of sugar, within the bounds of all players being of legal age, are very miniscule. le should have and do have bigger fish to fry. but, all it takes is one politician or enough complaints from a community to plant a seed.

scenario: i'll use richmond. article comes out that richmond is crawling with sd's "preying" on women, some very young. suddenly the 6 o'clock news picks it up. the mayor, police chief, everybody is hearing about it and it's an election year. hmmm. good opportunity to clean up the town and gain election points. place ads on various websites, work large number of potential sugar daddy's and schedule m&g's at staggered times in hotel bar. working 100 sd's. 20 (and that is very conservative) will show up and 18 will get nabbed. and there isn't a police chief in the universe that wouldn't give his left nut for arresting 18 "johns". yes, you just went from sugar daddy to john. and as you stated yourself, it's about "arrest stats", not conviction stats. that is just the gravy. they have their headline and you have your life and arrest record handed back to you in a plastic bag.

how likely is this? not very likely, i admit. and it would only net a large amount of "perps" in the bigger metro area's, i would think. but considering the time, money and effort le puts into saving us all from prostitution now, this could become the politician's newest flavor in sex related crime that need's to be dealt with.

mr. smith also gives the standard as to how one should conduct their game. a vigorous pre-screening, that includes confirming her age for the younger babies and that she understands her roll and is fully aware of what is expected, leading up to the m&g, is excellent advice. thanks john g. for reminding the membership how it should be done.

stay safe.

strict

**John G Smith** · 10-21-12 04:49

i think some of you are blowing the legal issue out of proportion. as hernando mentioned, there's pretty much a miniscule chance you'll get busted for prostitution in the sugar bowl. i've haven't heard of a single case anywhere of a sugar daddy getting busted for propositioning an of-aged sb. again, as hernando noted police want to net as much johns as possible per sting. it's about arrest stats, revenue from fines, and sometimes election year publicity. going after sugar daddies who are located all over geographically and have erratic schedules for meets would take a lot more time, effort, and patience from le. it's a lot easier for them to create a bp ad and setup a sting in a local hotel and net a 10-20 local mongers in one night.

also when i negotiate over text / email, i don't mean you should be overly graphic. i never say "i'll give you 80 for a bbbj every time we meet and 150 for bbfs". what i do say is that i'm looking for an arrangement that has physical intimacy. and then later on i may give an offer like this,"how about i gave you a monthly allowance of 1000-1200, which i'll give it to you in pieces 200-300 per meet." no where i'm explicitly saying i'm paying for a sexual act. i'm just giving my sb a monthly allowance which i'm paying in installments or i'm just giving her money on our dates. nothing illegal with that. sure i'm making implications that part of the parameters of our relationship is that we become "intimate". but again that's not illegal and le would have a hell of a time trying to draw lines with absolute certainty that i'm paying directly for sex acts. otherwise le would have to arrest everyone who gets on one knee and proposes to his girlfriend to be his wife. using an expensive engagement ring as payment, the guy is proposing a relationship that with absolute certainty will have sex involved. in fact, marriage isn't even official until a sex act is committed. so it's actually very hard to draw a legal line of distinction between a sd/sb relationship and a regular relationship.

besides, if le really wanted to nab sugar daddies, they could very well have the sb wear a recording device and then have le grab you when you leave the restaurant. saying things face to face doesn't give you anymore safety than text/email if le really wants to get you.

but still, i think there's little to worry about. maybe down the line if there is some serial sugar daddy predator who gets major headlines, then le may take a bigger interest in this arena. but for now it's pretty much unmonitored. again, our biggest threat is making sure we avoid the **** babies. it doesn't take a sting for you to get in trouble, it just takes an angry parent / friend / brother / sister who calls the police on you. so tread carefully with babies in the 18-20 range. any baby under 20, i always verify their age by asking for their facebook page. usually this is enough.

and some people are misinterpreting me and think i'm saying i believe in "no m&gs". that's not what i'm saying. i'm just saying do a little more vigorous pre-screening before you do a m&g. before you buy her dinner / drinks and waste your time, make sure she's pretty much already down with the program. that way you're basically just using the m&g to verify her appearance and any personality quirks. and if everything looks good, chances are high you could proceed to the fc right after the m&g if time permits.

i'm just saying, i'm hearing a lot of guys here complaining about girls wasting their time or being no-shows at m&gs. so i'm just saying move the m&g to "stage 2 or 3", don't have it as your first step.

**Mr Strict** · 10-20-12 21:20

Originally Posted by Zomby [View Original Post]

I think you're overestimating the degree of willingness to strive for as much as they can get among those in that segment of the male population that do this sort of thing. Sure, most may hope for more than arm-candy, but many of them don't have the confidence, or risk tolerance, to pursue more. I don't want to harp on strip clubs, but I've watched a lot of customers in those clubs pay a lot of money to do nothing but sit and talk with these women, including women who I know from direct experience are willing to do a lot more than talk. These same men will often either become upset at the suggestion that their favorite girl is a thinly disguised prostitute, or be unwilling to take the next step in availing themselves of those services for a number of reasons, whether that be fear of spousal reprisal, contracting disease, law enforcement, social stigmata, etc.

The set of men who go to strip clubs for sex is not, in my experience, very representative of the set of men who go to strip clubs regularly. It seems well within the realm of possibility, not far-fetched at all, that the same factor applies to sugar daddies.

/z

Possibly, but I don't think so. I just think the strip club experience is a much different animal when compared to the sd / sb experience. I feel that it is a different type of need that is being fulfilled at the club that has little to do with actually having sex with the strippers. Using myself as an example, and I admit I did not frequent the clubs on a regular basis, I never had the desire, past the fantasy stage, to bed a stripper. And it wasn't for fear of rejection or for any social or legal issues. I just didn't feel the need. The club for me was a place to hang with the guys, drink, smoke, talk shit and have a great time while looking at naked women. Nothing more. Now, if little Miss Fuck-Me-Pumps asked me into the back room for some nasty time, I would go in a heart beat. But look for it? No.

And I can't imagine anybody putting in the time and effort it takes to meet a decent pool of potential sb's and then pay cash, in some cases a huge amount, to just "hang out". There are anomalies in every group and I think these guys are the anomalies in the sd pool. And, IMO, are very few and very far between. But a girl can dream, I guess.

Thanks Mr. Z for your thoughts. I always enjoy reading your posts. As always, this is just my opinion and counts for no more or no less than anyone else.

Stay Safe.

Strict

**FeelGoodMd** · 10-20-12 21:06

Originally Posted by Majest [View Original Post]

I just start this SD hobby. I was trying out craglist which is all bot and no ready lady. Was wondering if anyone would like to help me out where to look for a good SB. Thank you ahead of time.

Majest,

Welcome to the Bowl. What I (and many of the other members of this site, I'm sure) did was start here (

http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/sh...or-Not/page150

And read forward. You will get a lot of great information, inspiration, and entertainment (often simultaneously, for that matter).

That's my prescription for the newbie in the Bowl.

Dr. Feelgood