"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[SubCmdr]

So, did I screw Nando 1 over, or was I too generous to even give her $. I am having a hard time with this, as she did show up and I at least got some relief. However, I don't think anyone (especially not any SD's) believes that half an hour and some head is what an "arrangement" is all about. Especially for a SB who "never meets for less than $$$." I'd love some opinions, especially from Mandy, about how I handled this and how I might have handled it better.

Dr,

It's really only important that you feel good about how you handled it. IMHO it was a generous gift. She was worth no more than half of what you gave her. Don't let the wool get pulled over your eyes. You were dealing with a garden tool that has internet access. And your sugar amount should reflect that fact. From this point on, make a complete assessment of who you are dealing with. Let a SB with GPS walk! Figure out where the SB is on the Nando scale before you meet up. Just because a garden tool has a gold plated handle does not mean you aren't going to use it dig in the dirt like all of your other garden tools. I gave Mandy a saying that I use and she passed on: "Don't expect sugar baby treatment if you roll up on me like a garden tool." I get turned down all the time because of my low sugar offers. But I've also had them accepted and hit the jackpot (like with HMM).

As for the early exit. I would have told her that until I'm completely satisfied there is no sugar. What is she going to do? She doesn't know a thing about you. She is pressed for time. With you holding out the clock continues to tick. What is her friend going to do? Goto the front desk and say "Excuse me, my friend went to see the guy in room X and she has not come out yet." She treated you like a punk man. She only deserves to be treated like a lady if she is acting like one. She doesn't leave the room if your dick is still hard!

I may not always make the best decisions. But I can tell you one thing, I never operate out of fear. You are the bank. They need the loan. Make them put the work in. Next time tell her to drop her panties and bend over. Work that nasty thing until you bust up in it! I roll strictly with the hard working Nando1's. If you like the trailer trash, hood rats and 'round the way girls like me, you better learn how to handle them or you're going to wake up in a ditch.

SubCmdr out

[FeelGoodMd]

Sometimes our reach exceeds our grasp, and that was what happened to me on Friday. I had a double header lined up, one with a 19 year old who turned out to be a Nando 1, and another with a 22 year old Nando 3 who likes it rough and, relatively, cheap. These were both first dates, with Nando 1 suppossed to go down at 1, and Nando 3 at 4 on Friday afternoon.

Long story short, I'd been flirting back an forth with Nando 1 for about a week, and we agreed on Thursday to meet Friday afternoon. That morning, she sends the "how much" email, and I told her I could provide $, with an extra. 2 to cover her gas. She writes back to inform me that she never meets for less than $$$, but being a longtime follower of this forum I know that is BS. I tell her that I could meet in the middle at $$ (thinking with my little head, because her pictures were incredibly hot). She agrees to this (a little too quickly) , and by 11, time and place are locked in.

I get to the FC and check-in at 12:55, feeling frustrated to be so rushed. Not to worry. At 1:15 I get a text that she's "heading over," which concerns me because I was downtown and she was in Ashland (a solid 20 miles, for you non-Richmonders). I stew a little, and at 1:50 I finally get the knock on the door. She comes in, we small talk for a few minutes (since we'd never met before) , and then get down to business. We make out for several minutes (I just love kissing a new girl) and then she goes downtown. A few more minutes of head (I mean. 20 or 30 minutes. Yeah, that's it) and I CIM. She swallows (points for her) and we play with each other's bodies before I return the favor.

After I give her a couple Os, I hit the head and go to pour us some more wine, but when I come back. She's getting dressed! We've been together MAYBE 30 minutes at this point, but she says her GF is waiting in the lobby and has to get back to babysit her (the GF's) nephew. I'm disappointed (I was planning to be with her until at least 3) , but obviously I'm not going to prevent her from leaving if she wants, so I go to my bag and give her $.

She gets pretty upset, and says we agreed on $$. I acknowledge that, but also point out that we'd agreed on 1:00, she'd been with me for less time than she'd been late, and I still have at least one more O left in me that I was hoping to enjoy. She says that "wasn't the deal," but I tell her firmly that she needs to go. After she leaves the room I hastily make an exit out the side of the hotel (I don't like that her friend is waiting downstairs).

I get to my car and leave, then pull into a restaurant a few blocks away to check my phone and confirm my next date. I have a text from Nando 3 that her job is keeping her until 6, and she's very sorry but she has to cancel. FML.

So, did I screw Nando 1 over, or was I too generous to even give her $. I am having a hard time with this, as she did show up and I at least got some relief. However, I don't think anyone (especially not any SD's) believes that half an hour and some head is what an "arrangement" is all about. Especially for a SB who "never meets for less than $$$."

I'd love some opinions, especially from Mandy, about how I handled this and how I might have handled it better.

Dr. Feelgood

[SubCmdr]

Sometimes the CPO calculation shouldn't be a straight $$ spent divided by cups of coffee ratio. You seem to have had quite a night on the town and undoubtedly enjoyed yourself there, even before you arrived at the hotel. If it makes you feel better about CPO, it would be reasonable to allocate some of those costs to the "fun" intangibles, rather than solely to the number of orgasms. We play with numbers like this all the time in the accounting world, which is further proof that number crunching is just as much an art as a science.

The thing about intangibles is that they often tend to pay returns when you least expect it, and you can tap that reservoir of goodwill when traditional sources of cash may be in shorter supply than normal.

I agree. How do you put a quantitative value on goodwill? That is why I like to keep the sugar amount low so for the special ones like ATF I can splurge and have a big night on the town.

So, far the forum has come up with four Sugar Baby Metrics. Two are qualitative and two are quantitative.

Qualitative.

Nando = A measure of quality referencing the Nando Scale (Hernado Post #779)

ISBE = Ideal Sugar Baby Experience (John G Smith. Post #1983)

Quantitative.

CPO = Cost per Orgasm (SubCmdr – Post. #1464)

TIH = Time in Hole (AOneFred7734 – #Post 1972)

The quality of the sugar baby experience should not be limited to a strict quantitative calculation.

When we returned to the room after our night on the town she jumped my bones. Not really being prepared for that type of reaction, I excused myself and went to the bathroom. I come out of the bathroom to a completely darkened room. She was standing in front of the full length window and basking in the warm glow of the city lights. I approached her, kissed her neck and she said 'I just love this view'. Her panties hit the floor, she was already wet and the evening just got better from there.

Intangibles indeed.

SubCmdr out

[SubCmdr]

I know we say some crazy stuff in L. A. But what the f is a Nando 1.

Nando = A measure of quality referencing the Nando Scale (Hernando. Post #779)

SubCmdr out

[HollywoodGuy]

I know we say some crazy stuff in L. A. But what the f is a Nando 1.

[HollywoodGuy]

Sometimes the CPO calculation shouldn't be a straight $$ spent divided by cups of coffee ratio. You seem to have had quite a night on the town and undoubtedly enjoyed yourself there, even before you arrived at the hotel. If it makes you feel better about CPO, it would be reasonable to allocate some of those costs to the "fun" intangibles, rather than solely to the number of orgasms. We play with numbers like this all the time in the accounting world, which is further proof that number crunching is just as much an art as a science.

The thing about intangibles is that they often tend to pay returns when you least expect it, and you can tap that reservoir of goodwill when traditional sources of cash may be in shorter supply than normal.

I have to limit myself to one O per session. 2 is rare. But at 58. Thats what you got to look forward to. Or skip a day here and there. LOL

[JoesParty]

Had another insane night with my HMM (Hot Mexican Momi). She arrived high as a kite. Had on a mini dress and her "hooker heels" her expression, not mine. Hit the hotel. She was impressed with my choice. Dinner. Then her favorite downtown night spots. Got to the hotel and she showed her appreciation late into the night and the next morning. Our date rolled into the early afternoon. Ending after a brief shopping trip. I did not get back home until 4 PM. Turned out to be an expensive evening with my CPO way out of line. But damn it was worth it! I am sprung on the kat. Since she is my new ATF, I'll cease my reports on her until something changes so I won't bore the group.

Got a young (23) tall (5'9") one in a holding pattern for today. Not sure if it would just be anti-climatic after last night. She is a rail, with tiny tits but a fat ass. For being so young she can really fuck.

SubCmdr out

Sometimes the CPO calculation shouldn't be a straight $$ spent divided by cups of coffee ratio. You seem to have had quite a night on the town and undoubtedly enjoyed yourself there, even before you arrived at the hotel. If it makes you feel better about CPO, it would be reasonable to allocate some of those costs to the "fun" intangibles, rather than solely to the number of orgasms. We play with numbers like this all the time in the accounting world, which is further proof that number crunching is just as much an art as a science.

The thing about intangibles is that they often tend to pay returns when you least expect it, and you can tap that reservoir of goodwill when traditional sources of cash may be in shorter supply than normal.

[Hernando]

Well, it seems the "W" has trashed my ATF HCB for good. It's been a week and I can't get a response back. I suspect being brought into the light of day and being forced to face the reality of what she was doing (fucking a married man for money) has cured her of me anyway. Sad, sad, sad! I was sooo happy when I was with her and would have run to her side if she gave me the slightest indication. OH Well. But now I am seriously horny and have seen my ATF at least twice / week or more for over a year. I need to get back in the game.

I am separating which will make playing easier since I won't have the warden watching my every move but the money is going to be tighter, so I have to be a little more selective and definitely not fall in love with any new ones. I was on SugDadforme and while my HCB was a 10, there were a lot of Nando 1s I encountered as well. I might try SA I hope my ATF doesn't go back to the sugar route. I really want more for her in life and no matter what you call this hobby it is still hooking.

[SubCmdr]

Had another insane night with my HMM (Hot Mexican Momi). She arrived high as a kite. Had on a mini dress and her "hooker heels" her expression, not mine. Hit the hotel. She was impressed with my choice. Dinner. Then her favorite downtown night spots. Got to the hotel and she showed her appreciation late into the night and the next morning. Our date rolled into the early afternoon. Ending after a brief shopping trip. I did not get back home until 4 PM. Turned out to be an expensive evening with my CPO way out of line. But damn it was worth it! I am sprung on the kat. Since she is my new ATF, I'll cease my reports on her until something changes so I won't bore the group.

Got a young (23) tall (5'9") one in a holding pattern for today. Not sure if it would just be anti-climatic after last night. She is a rail, with tiny tits but a fat ass. For being so young she can really fuck.

SubCmdr out

[SubCmdr]

Cmdr,

All this talk about OpSec, and then you go and pull this crazy shit. You didn't really expect to get away without any ball busting from the peanut gallery, did you? Because it seems like you learned your lesson, we'll let you off easy here.

Joe,

I read your message and was on the floor laughing. Thanks for starting my morning out with a big laugh! In Naval aviation all carrier landings are graded by a fellow aviator. They have an expression "Stand and take your grade". I would expect nothing less from my peer group here in the forum.

SubCmdr out

[JoesParty]

Corresponding with a pot SB. She is 18, brunette, a student and hot. But she lives at home and she wants me to come pick her up at her parents house. So, I'm very uncomfortable with this scenario. Smells like swine may be in the area. I put her through the verbal rigors trying qualify her as legit. Eventually she gives me her address. I check it out and I'm comfortable with it. Then went into negotiations. She gives me $500. I say $100. She says $400 final offer. I say no. She comes back with 'I like you' $300. I say $300 no time limit. She agrees. She is hot. I am horny. As I continue negotiations with other Pot SB's I realize I've made a bad deal for the area she is in. So I cancel our meeting. She asks why. I say her request is too high.

After about a week she hits me back up and tells me she has a friend that willing to see me for $. Ask her if she is running a stable. She says no just trying to help out a friend who needs money. I tell her to send me a picture of her friend she does. Her friend is 19, student, blonde and hot. Brunette tells me Blonde wants to do a threesome because she have never done this before and would feel more comfortable having her there. I tell Brunette no. I'm not doing a threesome with two women I don't know unless it is free. Blonde does not get to take a friend with her on her first day of work. So, I say have your friend get in touch with me directly. She does. We chat. And set up a time to meet.

Show up for the meet and both Blonde and Brunette is there. This is a little strange. Brunette introduces Blonde. All three of us greet. Brunette is hot. But Blonde has that white trash, meth head tweeker look. She is a little then for my tastes and Blonde hops into the car and off we go to the notel. During the ride to the notel we have a little conversation. She tells me she has had only one boyfriend. And she does not usually do this. I said 'You don't usually have sex. ' She says no 'I don't usually have sex with random men for money. ' I said 'Oh, are you good with this. ' Her response I need the money. I'm just not getting a good feeling from Blonde. So, before I go get the room I ask her again, 'Are you really ok with this. She says, no. I want my money up front. I tell 'No, if you want your money up front that makes you a prostitute. And I don't roll with prostitutes. ' She says, 'You are not paying much money so I'll fuck you but nothing else. I'm not going to suck your dick or give you any foreplay. I'm going to just get undressed and let you fuck me. That's it. ' I'm like 'Wait a second. Your friend told me that was the amount you were seeking. I just agreed to it. What we have here is a failure to communicate. ' What I was thinking to myself is 'Girl, you just been pimped! ' I tell her this is not going to work so I'll take her back to the pick up point. She gets on her cell phone and calls Brunette. Blonde is upset tell her friend she is on the way back. When I arrived at the original meeting spot Brunette was waiting there. She came over to the driver's side of my car. I rolled down the window. We started talking. She is not happy that I'm not getting with her friend. I explain that we had a miscommunication. Then she pisses me off. Brunette says that I'm ripping Blonde off. I told Brunette that she shouldn't be 'pimping her friend out. '

Next thing I know Brunette fires off a snap right hook that catches me solidly on my left cheek. Damn, the Cmdr is under attack. This is fucked up. I throw I open hand blow through the car door window that catches Brunette dead center of mass in her solar plexis. Brunette is down! I look over at Blonde who is still in the car. She looks like a dear caught in the headlights. I scream 'GET THE FUCK OUT MY CAR! '. Blonde starts to get out. I'm rolling up my driver's side window when Brunette plasters herself against my window like something out of a horror movie. She is screaming, 'I'll fuck you up. I'll fuck your car up. How you going to explain that to your wife? You cheating mother fucker! ' Wow! This situation is going downhill fast. Blonde finally gets out of my car. I reach over and shut the passenger door. I put my car into reverse and start backing up. Brunette hits my car again and screams 'Tell your wife hello for me you old cheating fuck! ' I drop the car into drive and burn rubber out of there.

I let my guard down and got jumped by a couple of garden tools. All this occurred, in a town house complex, in a suburb, in the middle of the day. No harm, no foul. But I think you can see how things could have gone horribly wrong. I made several tactical errors and one big strategic one. I hope others can learn from them.

Cmdr,

All this talk about OpSec, and then you go and pull this crazy shit. You didn't really expect to get away without any ball busting from the peanut gallery, did you? Because it seems like you learned your lesson, we'll let you off easy here.

But this reminds me of my current favorite in one respect: She, too, is 18 and lives at home. On our first date, I didn't understand I was to pick her up; I thought we were meeting at the restaurant. I text her to tell her I'm running late and that she should go ahead and get a table. Her response: "Aren't you picking me up?" Fuck.

"OK, where do you live?"

She sends me the address, I plug it into the nav, and lucky for me, she's not too far out of the way. She's in a safe yet rundown neighborhood, and I'm cautious as I pull around the corner in my German luxury car. I really need a more discreet sugarmobile for cases like this. There's a minivan in the driveway, and I'm pretty sure an 18yo isn't driving a Dodge Caravan. Double Fuck, she lives with parents. (Turns out it's just mom and siblings, but still.) So I waited just down the street.

We had one close call where mom was letting the dog in just as I was turning down the street. I don't think she saw me, and I discreetly hightailed it out of there. Told fav that I don't appreciate having to wait for her while mom is home, so now I wait in the parking lot of a local business down the street until I know she's ready.

The only saving grace of the situation is that fav was mortified that mom almost saw me. She's as dedicated to protecting my secret identity as am I, so she's a keeper for now, despite the fact that she still lives at home.

[ILikeHotWomen]

I hear you on the oral, I almost prefer that over anything else. I thought the SBs cost a lot more than escorts and streetwalkers. Are these sucking sbs good looking and young? If so, you need to start a class on sds for dummies! .

Bad feeling from Blonde. Blonde asking for money up front. No oral is a deal breaker in ALL circumstances. Remember, I got SB's in my car, sucking my dick and swallowing in broad daylight to get their cell phones turned back onl

[Gianni Versace]

Can anyone tell me what FC means? I can't seem to figure it out.

Thanks

[SubCmdr]

I don't get what happened for you to refuse the offer? The paying up front or that she only was allowing you to stick it in?

Bad feeling from Blonde. Blonde asking for money up front. No oral is a deal breaker in ALL circumstances. Remember, I got SB's in my car, sucking my dick and swallowing in broad daylight to get their cell phones turned back onl

[Rainjam]

One great story. What we do for the love the game. One day I will share mine. Keep up the great work and stay safe.

Corresponding with a pot SB. She is 18, brunette, a student and hot. But she lives at home and she wants me to come pick her up at her parents house. So, I'm very uncomfortable with this scenario. Smells like swine may be in the area. I put her through the verbal rigors trying qualify her as legit. Eventually she gives me her address. I check it out and I'm comfortable with it. Then went into negotiations. She gives me $500. I say $100. She says $400 final offer. I say no. She comes back with 'I like you' $300. I say $300 no time limit. She agrees. She is hot. I am horny. As I continue negotiations with other Pot SB's I realize I've made a bad deal for the area she is in. So I cancel our meeting. She asks why. I say her request is too high.