"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[John G Smith]

And all this after my OPSEC warning. LOL! You met a Nando1 that you had a bad feeling about previously; at night; in a desolate parking lot; in a neighborhood local to your home. Wow!

My suggestion is to hold onto all threatening communication until after you may need it. By blocking her messages you no longer have any proof of criminal behavior. It is a worst case scenario, but important if it comes down to it. If it comes down to Divorce or Jail. I'll take divorce.

Definitely wasn't one of my finest hours. I think I had a bit of hubris and didn't think anything serious would happen. I've met quite a few local girls and never come close to having any issues. Lesson learned though.

However blocking her messages doesn't mean I no longer have proof. I didn't delete any of the previous messages. I still have all her threatening messages. I basically just stopped her from communicating with me further, so she would get frustrated and move on.

Personally I rather get divorced than get extorted. I'll never pay a penny under threat. So any girl who threatens me will never get anything. And if they push it too far I'll be glad to turn them over to the police. Of course, I still want to avoid drama if I can.

[Magic Rat]

How much time is enough?

SubCmdr Out

I had a POT inform me that she expected to be compensated for the M&G because time was $ to her. I told her she sounded like an escort and that wasn't what I was looking for.

How much time is enough? As you said Commander, whatever feels right in that particular situation. I've been doing a late lunch with drinks and typically the M&G goes hour and a half to two hours. If you are talking about time in the proverbial FC, the only times that has ever been mentioned is to say "I have to be home by x time", sometimes by the Baby, sometimes by me. I would never spend time with a Baby where I felt like I was paying by the hour. But that's just me.

Happy trails.

[SubCmdr]

I've been running into a lot of Pot SB's that are focused on how much time you want to spend with them. As in the number hours your meeting will last. I have a real problem with that. If you want to get paid by the hour go be an escort. Meetings have a natural flow to them. Some are short. Other are more leisurely. Please share your thoughts on this subject.

How much time is enough?

SubCmdr Out

[SubCmdr]

I definitely was pretty freaked out. She didn't have my real name or number or anything. BUT she did see my car. And since she was local if she was extremely determined, if she combed through every neighborhood within a 5 mile radius, she might have a chance on finding me. More than likely though, it was an empty threat. When she started talking crazy, I immediately blocked her number. She hasn't made any further attempts to contact / harass me either from email or SA.

And all this after my OPSEC warning. LOL! You met a Nando1 that you had a bad feeling about previously; at night; in a desolate parking lot; in a neighborhood local to your home. Wow!

My suggestion is to hold onto all threatening communication until after you may need it. By blocking her messages you no longer have any proof of criminal behavior. It is a worst case scenario, but important if it comes down to it. If it comes down to Divorce or Jail. I'll take divorce.

I'm doing a regular girlfriend and we are getting it on hot and heavy. I guess we are getting loud because the neighbor called and left a threatening voice mail. The next morning I see the neighbor and get in his face about his attitude. Basically tell him that if he rings her phone again I'll make it my life's mission to fuck him up on a regular basis. (Yeah, the pussy was that good. Or least I thought it was at the time LOL). He called the police on me. I went back to her house and waited for the police to respond. They did. The officer interviews the neighbor and he comes over to her house to interview us. During the course of the interview I ask the officer to listen to the neighbors threatening message. Result, my actions are no longer being looked at as criminal assault but self defense. And the case becomes a civil matter with the Officer explaining that we can pursue a case against him in civil court. And the Officer returned to the neighbor to give him the bad news. Without the tape I might have been in bad shape.

I don't care where the SB is on the Nando scale. Think Star Trek. No self respecting starship captain would ever make contact with an unknown alien species without going to red alert!

SubCmdr out

[John G Smith]

I'll split my weekend story into two parts, so I don't have a ton of time.

Sometimes life is stranger than fiction. After just making a post on these forums about never encountering a psycho, literally within 24 hours I had my first encounter. As mentioned before I had planned to meet my 6/6 SB this weekend, Sunday to be exact. But the night before I got contacted by a local prospect to get together at the middle of the night. I met with her previously a week or so ago. She looked pretty good (at least a 7) and appeared to be very kinky. When we first met up, she showed me all kinds nudes and porn on her phone, and claimed to be bisexual. On one hand, it seemed like a great deal. She was freaky, local, and the money she wanted was doable. However my spidy sense told me to avoid this girl. The car she was driving was very "gangster" looking. She also mentioned how she could get hotels locally for very cheap or almost free. In some ways she acted like a Non-Pro, but in other ways she seemed familiar with the "Pro" lifestyle (ie. She had a lot of pictures with friends from hotel rooms and etc). So after the first meet, I declined to push things further.

However when she called on the weekend, I was just thinking with the little head (or no head actually). She didn't mention anything about money and it seemed like she was just bored and wanted to hang out. Also I figured there was a possibility I wouldn't be getting any action with the 6/6 SB the next day since it would be the first date, so I decided to roll the dice that night.

Well it came up snake eyes. When I met with her, she began turning into a full Psycho. She complained that I didn't give her any money from the first time we met. I didn't give her any money because she was over a hour late and we were basically just meeting to talk in the parking lot. She supposedly lived locally, so I didn't even think gas money was necessary. But on this second meet as were talking in a store parking lot in the middle of the night, she was just getting more and more agitated as we talked. She was trying to convince me to go to a hotel, but I simply wasn't comfortable being around her anymore. I eventually managed to leave, but within a few minutes of me leaving, she sent several angry barely coherent texts and began threatening to come knock at my door and tell my wife everything if I didn't give her $1000 through moneygram or something.

I definitely was pretty freaked out. She didn't have my real name or number or anything. BUT she did see my car. And since she was local if she was extremely determined, if she combed through every neighborhood within a 5 mile radius, she might have a chance on finding me. More than likely though, it was an empty threat. When she started talking crazy, I immediately blocked her number. She hasn't made any further attempts to contact / harass me either from email or SA.

I can't imagine what would have happened if I actually got involved with her regularly and then she flew off the handle if I didn't plan to see her for some reason. She might have been able to do some real damage.

But I definitely learned a lesson from that, which Zomby mentioned actually. I'm never going to play that close to home again. I'm going to make sure I always meet someone who is a minimum of 3 cities over and who thinks I live 3 cities away in the other direction.

Also this girl was a 100% Nando1. She was in her mid / late 20s and wasn't working at all nor going to school. Like I said, I also think she hung out with a rough crowd.

I'm glad I had the experience though. Good wakeup call to how shit can get real if you're not careful or become complacent.

Within the next couple of days, I'll post part 2 of my weekend adventures. Thankfully part 2 was a MUCH better experience.

[Golfcart]

*** I've always thought I was a pretty good judge of people but for the second time in the last couple of months I am really glad that I did not succumb to the strong temptation to entertain someone I thought was safe, sane and known at my own home. ***

The convenience of having girls in our home. We never really know them. We know more about the cable guy. The gable guy isn't hiding his identity.

The typical risks of pay for play are on steroids the minute we bring those risks home. We give her knowledge we cannot take back. Our address allows her to learn our identity. She has the power to find us any time, even years later. A problem during the encounter someplace else allows us to walk away. At home we are limited to fighting or giving in. Girls who sell their bodies have pressures we cannot imagine. We never know what is behind that smile.

Pay for play never works for a girl the way she envisioned. Many have burned bridges making it harder to return to her life of before. She feels cornered and feels trapped. Women are emotional and reactive creatures by nature prone to fly off the handle anyway. Everything is our fault it happened and our fault we didn't fix it. We carry the rap-sheet of every man that came before us. With a woman everything goes south sooner or later. We never know when that point will be reached. We don't want that point to be reached when she is in our home.

Then there is the riskiest encounter of all. She has decided this time will be our last time. Something about that encounter will turn out differently and we are unaware. We don't want that to happen at home.

Talk to a friend on the police department about home invasions. Many burglaries are inside jobs by people who have been there by invitation. Some set fire out of anger, some to hide evidence of the burglary. That leaves evidence of arson. Arson is obvious to a trained investigator. The suspects are the homeowner and all who have been there by invitation. The homeowner is required to make statements under oath about this. Not saying she would be involved or someone she bragged to about what she saw was involved. Nonetheless we are in a box whether we tell the authorities and insurance investigators about the women we were having over to pay to have sex with us, or leave them out. Good luck with that call either way.

There simply is no upside to pay for play at home other than temporary convenience.

Third, at the core this is boundary crossing. Boundary crossing however it happens leads to problems.

My opinion only.

[Zomby]

I mentioned earlier about how I base the allowance I give on the type of SB experience I think I'll get. But making that post also reminded me that I haven't really come close to the ideal SB experience I've been looking for.

Well, even though I've only ever had one SB, I'll chime in here as well. I don't share all of your ideals, and I don't weight them all evenly, as you appear to do. I don't suppose it would come as any great surprise that the my SB scores highly on my list, given the length of our relationship.

- A very attractive petite college-aged girl. A girl who looks normal and doesn't have a ton of tattoos.

I think "attractive" is going to have to be taken as almost a given in this type of relationship, though exactly what constitutes "attractive" is obviously going to be different for different people. Tattoos, and also piercings, aren't the detractors for me that they are for some. I like well done ink, and the type of girl who gets a body piercing is generally kinda kinky in a way that I like. As for age, I don't know how I compare to others doing this type of thing, but it won't be long before I can *legally* have sex with someone who is one third my age; I consider anything under 30, with all else being equal, to be "young enough", and over 30 wouldn't be out of the question either, for the right person. I *am* a bit on the shallow side though, so "younger" is pretty much automatically higher on the list.

- Has modest financial needs. Someone who is pretty independent and just needs help with a few major bills to make life easier.

Definitely. I'm not interested in supporting her, and a person who is *not* independent wouldn't be attractive to me. If I wanted a dog, I'd get a dog. I have no problem in supplying her with the means to keep her from working herself to death, but I don't want to be the sole means of support.

- Has an apartment or place we can meet, so I don't have to keep booking and spending money on FCs.

Not as important to me. I've repeatedly told my girl that if she wanted to meet at her house, that I'd give her what I spend on the room instead. Even when we could, when no one is home, she prefers to go out. I think she just wants to get out of the house. LOL I consider the room a cost of doing business. That might be an attitude left over from dealing with strippers for so long, since virtually no one wants to go to a stripper's place to have sex, but it long ago ceased to be an overriding concern.

- A friendly girl who is easy to talk to and eager to chat / txt semi-regularly between meets.

Absolutely. This one is arguably more important than the rest, by a factor of at least two. I'm not interested in love, but if our only connection were that six or so inches of sliding flesh, it wouldn't have lasted as long as it has. I like cuddling and pillow talk, and non-rushed encounters. Some level of interaction out of the bedroom is desirable, too, though I certainly don't need daily contact.

- Doesn't live too far away. Has enough flexibility / openings in her schedule to meet regularly.

On the other hand, there's something to be said for someone who lives far enough away that there is little possibility of meeting friends or family when visiting her, though the second part is pretty much essential. It would be pointless to have a SB that one couldn't meet.

- Finds me at least somewhat handsome / attractive.

Uh, yeah, I'm not going to be attracted to, or be able to have fun with, someone is is repelled by me.

That leads me to one characteristic that you left off, but which I suspect you consider so fundamental that it didn't merit mentioning. The sex has to be good for *both* of us. I don't want a dead fish who just shows up for the money. I completely understand that the money is a large, and for most SBs I've seen described here, it's likely the *largest, factor, but if I can't make the sex at least "good" for her, I'm not going to be interested in seeing her. To that point, I don't want fakery, and I'm not interested in porn star sex. I want *real* enjoyment, and if I can't manage that *every* time, that's fine ("but next time you ain't feeling it, tell me so and we'll reschedule"). If I can't manage it *most* of the time, it's not fine at all. I want her to enjoy it so she'll be enthusiastic about coming back.

Then out of nowhere, I got contacted by a 6/6!

Look forward to hearing how it worked out for you. And I hope it works out well.

/z

[EasyGoingJ]

This is a timely discussion, as reported below I had a girl who came off as totally normal and good potential do a cash and dash with the $ that she could easily get her hands on this week. It happened faster than my brain could engage to believe it. Everything from the several days of intimate texting to the face to face seemed to have been going so well. After a few days of back and forth texting she had no explanation and certainly no plans to make it right so I went ahead and posted a warning here for any other Virginia Sd's.

I've always thought I was a pretty good judge of people but for the second time in the last couple of months I am really glad that I did not succumb to the strong temptation to entertain someone I thought was safe, sane and known at my own home.

I'll be thoroughly reviewing my opsec with a fresh perspective. I have a separate account for my phone, bills to my alternate email, drop by and pay in cash, but from my checking sb's #'s it looks like there are lots of websites offering reverse lookups on any cell phone, which would have all the info I thought I was so carefully hiding. Is there a way to block this info or is that what makes a total burner phone necessary? Sorry if this has been talked about before, I'm a regular reader but haven't seen it discussed. My apologies in advance if it has.

So last night psycho Susie emails me about getting together today as if nothing had ever happened, but asks that I please email her vs texting since her phone had been turned off bc she hadn't paid it. Raise your hand if you saw that coming. Anyway there is no way I'm doing anything but running in the opposite direction and raising my level of security.

Thanks to all of you who post regularly, I usually don't have much to add but I've been on SA for a while and am glad to share info on SB's in Charlottesville, Va. And Southwest Florida. Although this is a Richmond thread I get the feeling that most of my brothers here are not in Virginia so I may be of help to only a few of you, but glad that you are all here.

[HollywoodGuy]

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1539245]My brothers,

I find it ironic that the topic under discussion is "How to spot a psycho", since I have encountered three of them recently, and am asking that same question myself. I have come to the conclusion that there really is no way to tell in advance, since the babies craft their profiles as carefully as we do ours. The only thing, I have concluded, is to establish a list of best practices for staying under deep cover, and NEVER deviate. I offer my list, many of which have been suggested before, but perhaps having them all in one place will be helpful.

I got a vasectomy. Due to a pregnancy scare. Actually had a girl recently tell me she was pregnant. And I could confidently ask "whose the daddy, because I know its not me"

Make sure they have a green dot card. Find out if they have a bf, gf or husband. Do they drink or use drugs to excess. Where do they live exactly. Check I'd if they are teenagers. When was the last time they were tested. Do they have a kid.

I got caught with a 17 year old by LE in my car a few months ago. Luckily it was still pregame. And they let me go. Be safe because its easy to get complacent

[F Scott]

My brothers,

I find it ironic that the topic under discussion is "How to spot a psycho", since I have encountered three of them recently, and am asking that same question myself. I have come to the conclusion that there really is no way to tell in advance, since the babies craft their profiles as carefully as we do ours. The only thing, I have concluded, is to establish a list of best practices for staying under deep cover, and NEVER deviate. I offer my list, many of which have been suggested before, but perhaps having them all in one place will be helpful.

1. Never reveal your real name; you can share your first name if you must, but never last.

2. Use a dedicated sugar email that seems like a play or variation on your sugar name, and nothing close to your real name.

3. Use a dedicated, pay as you go phone, and keep it in the same hiding place all the time. I have to admit I am a little lax about this from time to time, and have had more than one attack of icy bowels knowing that it was somewhere in the house, and so was my SO!

4. Set up a fake Facebook profile with your sugar email clearly on it, so if the babies google your address, it will take them to your "profile". Add some of them as friends, and put in as much information as seems plausible in terms of likes and so forth.

5. Use only photos you have taken yourself for the express purpose of sugar business, so they can't be tin-eyed to your corporate profile on Linked In.

6. Pay only with cash or prepaid gift cards that don't have your name on them.

7. Try to get the baby to book the hotel room, and pay her back in cash. Most will go for this since they understand the need for discretion.

8. Play a little out of your home territory to lessen the chances of being seen by anyone who could inadvertently rat you out to the SO.

9. Always have an excuse ready to go in case you are seen at dinner with a baby - niece, daughter of your college roommate, new assistant (tho the last one is lame, I admit)

10. Keep a clean car. All receipts, registrations, anything with your name on it, bank receipts etc in the trunk and not in the glove box.

11. Always play safe. A brother known to us all is dealing with a little bundle of joy on the way - Jesus!

I'm sure there are more, but these have kept me safe over three years of happy play time. Only my ATF knew my real name, and that was after months of being together. I absent-mindedly gave her the hotel key to return as we were leaving, and she brought me the receipt. I miss her.

Peace,

Scott

[John G Smith]

Anybody want to volunteer a list of signs to watch out for for a potential psycho?

So far I haven't encountered any psychos or vindictive girls, but it's probably just a matter of time. So I'd appreciate any warning signs you guys would like to offer up.

That said, I do try to keep myself well protected. I use Google Voice, so it's easy to block any number. And I don't use the GV for anything else, so she can't trace me with it and I can just drop the account if absolutely necessary.

I use a fake name, but to be honest I think a girl you see for more than a couple of months will eventually find out your real name. At some point she'll see a hotel bill, credit card, car insurance, car registration, or something.

I think the big thing is just not letting them know your real phone number, street address, or place of business. Even if they know you're real name, it's not easy to find those things. But you do have to be careful with things like your license and business cards.

Though I think in general the Sugar Bowl just has some inherent risks that even if you're extremely careful, you're still vulnerable.

[HollywoodGuy]

OPSEC = Operational security. It is the principal that when running a operation that requires security you should operate on a need to know basis.

While texting a Pot SB she explained to me that she was simple girl that did not need much. Only a few dollars to buy a dress on occasion or some shoes. When we agreed to meet she said she needed some shopping money. She requested $800. I declined. She then requested $300. I declined. This was her next text message to me:

'I will be calling your wife. I never sell my pussy for $300 or my mouth boo I was selling your old ass a dream and the funny thing about your WIFE HIRED ME ALL THESE TEXT MESSAGES ARE BEING FORWARD TO HER AS WE SPEAK SHE FIGURED YOU WAS CHEATING AND NEEDED EVIDENCE YOU DUMB B* NOW SHE GOT IT I HOPE SHE TAKE YOUR B* ASS FOR EVERYTHING HUNNY SO GUESS WHAT either way I was getting some of your money regardless And our emails you fucking prick have fun getting a divorce. '

Now the B don't know jack about me. So, I just laughed and moved on to the next profile. Does anyone question why it is important to run silent and run deep? Because you never know when you are going to run into a garden tool with internet access. The World Wide Web is the Wild Wild West! Stay on alert. Keep you game tight. Put in the work. Hit the gym. Do your leg presses. Because gentlemen, when you kick your garden tools in the ass they MUST know you mean business!

SubCmdr out

But I did have to change my number recently due to a psycho.

[Magic Rat]

Commander. Unfortunately there are more of these Pots out there than we would like to think. Be ever vigilant my fellow brothers!

[JoesParty]

I mentioned earlier about how I base the allowance I give on the type of SB experience I think I'll get. But making that post also reminded me that I haven't really come close to the ideal SB experience I've been looking for.

This is basically my Ideal SB Experience:

- A very attractive petite college-aged girl. A girl who looks normal and doesn't have a ton of tattoos.

- Has modest financial needs. Someone who is pretty independent and just needs help with a few major bills to make life easier.

- Has an apartment or place we can meet, so I don't have to keep booking and spending money on FCs.

- A friendly girl who is easy to talk to and eager to chat / txt semi-regularly between meets.

- Doesn't live too far away. Has enough flexibility / openings in her schedule to meet regularly.

- Finds me at least somewhat handsome / attractive.

If I found a SB who met all these requirements, then I would put all my resources into her and not mess around with other SBs. I'd basically close the stable until further notice. But unfortunately, I had never met a girl who checked all those items. She might meet 3 of the requirements, but not the other 3. On my ISBE (Ideal Sugar Baby Experience) scale, the highest a girl scored was 4/6. But usually I tend to settle for girls who score a 3/6.

As mentioned before, I had let my SA membership expire. But after a recent CL no-show, out of spite I decided to put the extra money toward a new month of SA. I sent out quite a few messages and actually got a decent amount of responses and prospects. But again none of them scored higher than a 3/6 on the ISBE scale. So I thought it was going to be the usual routine of rotating through 2-3 SBs who I might see semi-regularly. Basically glorified hookups.

Then out of nowhere, I got contacted by a 6/6! She read my profile and initiated contact. She's a petite very attractive college SB. (1/6) We started txting and basically hit it off immediately. (2/6) Her allowance needs are modest, she basically just wants rent taken care of. And since she has roommates, it's not that bad. (3/6) She's fine with getting together at her place and her roommates are supposedly open-minded and keep to themselves (4/6). She mentioned she thought I was handsome in the pics I sent her (5/6). And she just lives about a hour away. Okay I probably should score it 5. 5/6 because the distance is a tad farther than I'd prefer, but a hour drive isn't that bad and since she has her own place and everything else is so awesome, I'll give her the extra. 5. (6/6)

So we're going to try to meet this weekend. I just can't believe how she literally just fell into my lap. I'm getting the vibe that she's had a sugar daddy before. She's already comfortable with the idea of being intimate and has realistic expectations for what she can get out of a SD / SB relationship, so no GPS. I was beginning to think a 6/6 ISBE was a unicorn for me, but now I'm a believer again.

So if this weekend goes well, Monday morning I'll be burning up the stable (most of the other horses are out to pasture anyway) and put this filly in her own special quarters.

Not to brag, but they are out there. I've got one who's an easy 5 out of 6 on your scale. Had another exciting romp with her this week. I just can't resist when she says "I want you inside me."

- A very attractive petite college-aged girl. A girl who looks normal and doesn't have a ton of tattoos.

Yes. As I've mentioned before, she's 18. Other than the pink hair (which she says is going back to natural soon) , she's more or less your girl next door. No tats. Bottom lip pierced, but that's it. Not petite, but slim (she's too tall to be "petite" I think).

- Has modest financial needs. Someone who is pretty independent and just needs help with a few major bills to make life easier.

She's been very happy with the modest allowance I've been providing on a weekly basis. Hasn't asked for anything specific, nor has she requested anything in advance.

- Has an apartment or place we can meet, so I don't have to keep booking and spending money on FCs.

Here's her only downfall: she still lives at home with mom. Tells mom we're "dating" so mom doesn't ask too many questions when she goes out. So yes, I do need to arrange a FC in advance. I've found one nearby, though, for not too much $$.

- A friendly girl who is easy to talk to and eager to chat / txt semi-regularly between meets.

Super friendly and clearly into me. I've had to make it clear I'm not looking for a girlfriend here.

- Doesn't live too far away. Has enough flexibility / openings in her schedule to meet regularly.

20 minutes from home, but far enough and in a different enough part of town that our social circles don't cross.

- Finds me at least somewhat handsome / attractive.

See above. She's made it clear she really likes me. Can't get enough of me in bed. She's a keeper.

Given all of this, I've put all my other beauties and prospects out to pasture indefinitely, even ATF, who has taken advantage of me too much lately without providing enough in return. Sad to see ATF go, but it all ends at some point, right?

So, John, it is possible. But I'm the first to admit it takes a LOT of luck. Best of luck to you as you pursue this potential perfect score this weekend.

[SubCmdr]

OPSEC = Operational security. It is the principal that when running a operation that requires security you should operate on a need to know basis.

While texting a Pot SB she explained to me that she was simple girl that did not need much. Only a few dollars to buy a dress on occasion or some shoes. When we agreed to meet she said she needed some shopping money. She requested $800. I declined. She then requested $300. I declined. This was her next text message to me:

'I will be calling your wife. I never sell my pussy for $300 or my mouth boo I was selling your old ass a dream and the funny thing about your WIFE HIRED ME ALL THESE TEXT MESSAGES ARE BEING FORWARD TO HER AS WE SPEAK SHE FIGURED YOU WAS CHEATING AND NEEDED EVIDENCE YOU DUMB B**** NOW SHE GOT IT I HOPE SHE TAKE YOUR B**** ASS FOR EVERYTHING HUNNY SO GUESS WHAT either way I was getting some of your money regardless And our emails you fucking prick have fun getting a divorce. '

Now the B don't know jack about me. So, I just laughed and moved on to the next profile. Does anyone question why it is important to run silent and run deep? Because you never know when you are going to run into a garden tool with internet access. The World Wide Web is the Wild Wild West! Stay on alert. Keep you game tight. Put in the work. Hit the gym. Do your leg presses. Because gentlemen, when you kick your garden tools in the ass they MUST know you mean business!

SubCmdr out