"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[Golfcart]

I have one HYB dancer that wants sugar for companionship with "nothing sexual". I asked what "nothing sexual" meant to her. She couldn't answer. So I thought I would try to see if she was serious.

First time, we went out for a few drinks ended up at a hotel with her doing a nude dance for me. When she started to grind on me, I responded by touching her which got her turned on. We ultimately ended up in a heated 69 when she all of a sudden realizes what she is doing and freaks out. She is upset we went too far and can't believe I got her that turned on. I'm frustrated I didn't finish and feel guilty that she thought we went too far. Strike one.

She contacts me a second time asking to get together. I assume, incorrectly, that she has decided she is okay with the sex part. We meet again for drinks and end up in a hotel. She does the nude dance, but won't let me touch her. We ended watching each other get off. She's good. I'm frustrated again. Strike two.

She contacts me a third time wanting to meet. I let her know I don't want to pay to walk away frustrated or guilty. I sugest she let me try to get both of us fully aroused with a full body massage and see how we both feel if we don't follow to completion. I promise not to go any further unless she attacks me. Which I'm not sure I could fight off. She sugests I get a room with a hot tub, stawberry's, wine, etc. We meet, eventually ended up in the hot tub. I'm massaging her being very carefully not to touch her nipples or vagina. She ends up sticking her nipples in my mouth while sitting on my lap in the tub. She starts grinding me and I'm working hard not to enter her. She grabs my cock and sticks it in her. We go at it for few minutes, when she realizes what she is doing and freaks out again. She's upset again. I'm frustrated and feel guilty. Strike three.

She called again wanting to meet. Still doesn't want sex. I declined.

She is definately hot and I know she is into it, but too young and confused.

Dancers make their living off the up-sell. No good P4P ever comes from a dancer unless it is expensive in comparison, and things seem to get more expensive because dancers push the envelope (no pun intended). We don't know how much sugarbread Madaboutmax is laying out and not getting fully laid. This sounds like Traditional Dancer Theory to me, something to avoid at all cost. So at first I was ready to say that Madaboutmax is being played like a violin. But I'm not so sure.

I sense Madaboutmax may have caught this girl early, before she has fully crossed the line in her own mind of fucking for money. That's a line some girls in the adult business never cross or they cross it and load up on guilt. That may be why this girl stops fucking for money before she fucks for money very long. Maybe this is how she views herself; maybe this is how she perceives she will be viewed by Madaboutmax, an important distinction.

Madaboutmax doesn't seem to be complaining about the sugar; he just wants her to let go and swing for the outfield. Madaboutmax, if you want her badly, here is a post I made several months ago. It describes many girls out there and may apply to this girl. Madaboutmax can decide. I thought right off it might, plus the special sign when Madaboutmax's second date reported regression.

Every woman will turn a trick under the right circumstances.

She will do it for the excitement of being desired by a strange man willing to pay her. There may be other issues in the background, but a disconnect is always present, i.e., she does not see herself as being paid. She sees the situation as her showing appreciation to a friend (the man) who helps her out. She may see it as "found money," there for the taking he would be giving someone anyway. Whatever, however it is rationalized she is not there to be paid and is not being paid. This is not what is happening. She is clear what this is not, less clear what this is.

The guy's treatment of her and how the money is handled must conform to her sense of reality, not his, or he'll blow what he found. Few girls ever take the step of fucking for money in their mind and those who take that step few ever recover.

She will disappear the instant she senses his sense of reality differs from hers, the instant he treats the money as payment for services which usually happens when he attempts to control her in some way or (this is worse) when he says the wrong thing.

With a woman what we say will get us into more trouble than what we do. Do not say anything about the money, ever. Joking is feigned truth. No joking.

Do not give her the money first. Do not even hand her the money. Not that there aren't other ways, I put a rubber band around it and put it in her handbag while on the elevator leaving, as the door is closing, or as I open the door of the car for her to get in, as she is getting in, a good distraction, whenever there is a distraction, without saying a word, I cup my hand as I slide it into her handbag so nothing is seen, and nothing is said. She may say, "Thank you," and I still keep my mouth shut.

The guy must treat her normally, like a regular person, absolutely not like a date even, that will scare her, that we may become attached to her. She does not want that. She did not pick us. She is not into us. She's had boyfriends become problems and she will see us as a problem down the road if we act like boyfriends act. Boyfriends always get possessive. Hence, no questions about her other activities. Asking about her day is probably the only safe question simply because the answer is open-ended from her point of view.

So how do we treat her? We should treat her like we would treat a guy friend of ours, a guy in our foursome, not make a big deal over her, not make a big deal over it, certainly not expect it, so she has the security of being able to withdraw at any point without any entanglements, certainly without getting caught should she change her mind or should she go through with it, never caught no matter what. She must be secure she can walk away with no consequences, no fear of discovery. We must never promise her that very thing because she will hear a threat instead. We promise her that by showing her safety, security, patience and being non-judgmental about her and the relationship. Asking her, “How long have you been doing this?” is, to her, about as judgmental as it can get. For us guys, coming from us, many questions are judgmental. Keep the conversation in the present.

With that security she'll turn a trick. That we may be an old fart is inconsequential to her unless it makes us safer in her eyes. The only thing that matters is how we treat her, that she is safe and secure with us and the money magically appears.

We must show no interest in her personal details, her real name, etc. As soon as we suddenly learn too much because she is talking too much she will realize our knowledge is power to out her, and that is not good for us. We must protect her from herself by diverting the conversation away. She'll figure out we are protecting her free will to withdraw with no fear of entanglement, in her best interest. She will see us as safe and secure and that is what we will really be.

[Madaboutmax]

I have one HYB dancer that wants sugar for companionship with "nothing sexual". I asked what "nothing sexual" meant to her. She couldn't answer. So I thought I would try to see if she was serious.

First time, we went out for a few drinks ended up at a hotel with her doing a nude dance for me. When she started to grind on me, I responded by touching her which got her turned on. We ultimately ended up in a heated 69 when she all of a sudden realizes what she is doing and freaks out. She is upset we went too far and can't believe I got her that turned on. I'm frustrated I didn't finish and feel guilty that she thought we went too far. Strike one.

She contacts me a second time asking to get together. I assume, incorrectly, that she has decided she is okay with the sex part. We meet again for drinks and end up in a hotel. She does the nude dance, but won't let me touch her. We ended watching each other get off. She's good. I'm frustrated again. Strike two.

She contacts me a third time wanting to meet. I let her know I don't want to pay to walk away frustrated or guilty. I sugest she let me try to get both of us fully aroused with a full body massage and see how we both feel if we don't follow to completion. I promise not to go any further unless she attacks me. Which I'm not sure I could fight off. She sugests I get a room with a hot tub, stawberry's, wine, etc. We meet, eventually ended up in the hot tub. I'm massaging her being very carefully not to touch her nipples or vagina. She ends up sticking her nipples in my mouth while sitting on my lap in the tub. She starts grinding me and I'm working hard not to enter her. She grabs my cock and sticks it in her. We go at it for few minutes, when she realizes what she is doing and freaks out again. She's upset again. I'm frustrated and feel guilty. Strike three.

She called again wanting to meet. Still doesn't want sex. I declined.

She is definately hot and I know she is into it, but too young and confused.

[MyHobby]

I agree there seems to be more and more women signing up for the site I frequent every day. Its hard for me to keep up with it sometimes as my search area includes the NY metro area. I disagree that these girls are looking to pay off tuition bills. I think for the most part these girls are looking for either easy money or just a means to get buy. My most recent SB, a 23yo aspiring actress, didn't have a real job and was very happy with my $300 a meet and used it to live off of not save or pay off debt. I think the girls that they are interviewing about making "$5, 000 a weekend" are lying pure and simple. They are just saying that to drive the market price up and to justify what they are doing to an interviewer.

I find the more they are concerned about how much is involved the closer to a hooker they are and ultimately act. The SB's I've encountered that are happy with whatever is placed in their purse at the end of the night (or better yet in the morning) are the best kind. I have a MILF 33yo light skinned dominican stripper SB that is totally OK with $200 for an overnighter and usually pays a $50 overnight parking bill when we meet in Manhattan. On the other hand I've had potential SB's suggest $500 for just a couple hour romp with no dinner or overnight. Too rich for my blood.

I have witnessed recently this meet with me and give me money for companionship syndrome. I've actually had lunch / drinks with this variety just to see if they are for real wi the expectation no money changes hands on the first date, its strictly a get to know you. I have not gone back for a second date with any of them even though I feel I could have booked many second or more dates with no money changing hands and eventually bedded at least a portion of them. I am corresponding with one right now who claims she has someone willing to go through with that type of arrangement but I'm sure its someone running the same game I was and being non committal.

[Magic Rat]

Nando,

See HYB5 on my post below. That may be worse than GPS. I'll guarantee there aren't any mongers in my area who will give them $ to go to dinner with them, I don't care how hot she is.

[Hernando]

We all have our own capacity for sweetness but most SBs probably don't make $50, 000 / or more annually.

The news reports herein mentioned the menial amount of money that one SB got from visiting an old Monger at his Long Island mansion for only $350. Well excuse me but I think that sum is heady for a babe with no money or other visible means of support. My college kids are lucky to make $10 / hr waiting tables in their college town and will clear $40 in an afternoon. This gal cleared $350 less gas-not too shabby. I'm sure she got some fine food, drink, and beautiful vistas of Long Island Sound and a beautiful mansion. Now granted, he doesn't sound like Brad Pitt, but.a small price to pay for a sweet payday.

Ah GPS.the really cute girls can probably clear thousands / week with multiple SDs particularly in a wealthy area like Manhattan, but the more mercinary they are the more it smacks of prostitution. Multiple encounters with multiple Daddies for a roll in the hay certainly is hard for their therapist to help them justify their side business as anything less. I want a SB all to myself. If I am spending lbs of sugar on her I want her full attention, otherwise I could just see escorts. Not insignificantly, I expect my one and only SB to provide all services uncovered, and I do not want to be exchanging secretions with other Mongers who desire the same.

[Hernando]

What? Can it be true?

I chatted up a hot SB who made it clear on her profile and "in person " that she was totally into being a paid companion for dinners out, dances, etc, but that sex was definitely not on the table. This girl was a HYB in her early 20's, well spoken, and sure that she could find a rich guy to pay her.

I explained that zero to none would be the expected number of men who would make that deal, but I would be interested in hearing from the panel here if anyone would consider this deal?

My thinking is that we can find plenty of women to provide that service WITH the expectation of romance at the end of the night (or beginning.or both ). She was sweet and cute and I hope she woos a suitor who has enough $ to throw a few bucks at her. I need to save every dime to see my baby who I'm seeing for the 4th time in a week. She is still doing it all for me so we are milking it while the going is good. I know she is loving the $ and my sparkling personality as well as I am loving.well.everything.

[Member #5055]

Now national NBC today program is running the piece:

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/44000922#44000922.

The good news is that the lawyers say that it is almost impossible to indite as prostitution!

GW

[Magic Rat]

Well the Rat has been fishing in the HYB pond and, while getting a few nibbles, hasn't really landed anything suitable for mounting on his wall yet.

HYB1 has GPS and wanted a $500 sugar pill. She must have read the AOL article.

HYB2 we've exchanged pm's and plan our first meeting for lunch next week

HYB3 she doesn't qualify on any count but I did meet up with her. Early 30's, definitely not HB, did it all but no passion. Won't repeat.

HYB4 have exchanged emails and I'm's. Seems like the most promising of the bunch.

HYB5 exchanged a couple pm's. She says she's not an escort so don't expect sex. Think she wants to be paid to be a friend?

Several have exchanged a couple pm's on site but then didn't hear from again. Several never responded. Maybe the % responses aren't really that bad looking back on it.

I saw my MILF sb last week and I have to say, the HYB's have a tough row to hoe to match up with her. Her job situation is changing so it will be tough to meet up with her on a regular basis is the only reason I'm looking. Well that and some of you "pro's" great experiences.

I've also noticed new sbs signing up weekly keeping a steady stream of fresh pussy available. Is this a great time to be a monger or what?

[Hernando]

I agree that there is no place on this site for acrimony and animosity. We are all here for one purpose only, and that is to get laid in any way that meets our individual fancy and budget. I respect everyone's taste and opinion even if I do not agree with it.

Photog seems to have a large fund of knowlege about the hobby and I enjoy reading the data he shares with us. The editorial slant does seem to be negative however and would respect his information more without it. I might put him on my ignore list. Others can too if you object to the disrespect and condescension.

[Literal2]

That was a pretty good paid "infomercial" for Brandon Wade which he is known to do. He looked a lot different today when CNN / HLN blew him and his story away.

"Mutual arrangement or prostitution?"

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/...ostitution.cnn

Some NYC multi-millionaire paying $22K / mth in rent, staying at the Ritz-Carlton, $1M a year in net income and $20M in net worth. All claims. The best he can offer a girl is $500 / night and call himself a Sugar Daddy? The local VCU girls and BP escorts do better than that.

Fotog, what the fuck is your problem?

Go ahead, boy, spit it out!

For some unfathomable reason you detest the idea of sugarbabes. Fine. Why are you on this thread?

I'm sorry, but your posts are replete with misinformation. Why do you bother? I don't want to use the "you make me laugh" cliche, but you are tempting me with your consistent weird inaccuracies.

Nobody cares if you want to play around with those AMP and SW types. Why do you care if we enjoy utrs? Please explain.

Not everyone has to have the same preferences. You are consistently uninformed and hostile / angry about * what? What is your issue?

Speak, man, old or young as you may be.

And you're a fotog, right? So post a goddam photograph of some girl you have fucked, please. Just to establish that you are an actual monger and aren't some kind of coot who can't get laid in a *house with a fistful of benjamins.

Jeez, I can get along with anybody but you are beginning to irritate me.

[Richmond Fotog]

That was a pretty good paid "infomercial" for Brandon Wade which he is known to do. He looked a lot different today when CNN / HLN blew him and his story away.

"Mutual arrangement or prostitution?"

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/...ostitution.cnn

Some NYC multi-millionaire paying $22K / mth in rent, staying at the Ritz-Carlton, $1M a year in net income and $20M in net worth. All claims. The best he can offer a girl is $500 / night and call himself a Sugar Daddy? The local VCU girls and BP escorts do better than that.

Did anyone see the cover story on AOL today about the SD site Seeking Arrangement dot com? Sounds familiar doesn't it? The girls interviewed sound like they are in the nosebleed territory getting $20 K / week from the Wall Street crowd.

Never fear. There is always somebody for everyone at all different prices. Something I figured out early on, someone is always bigger, stronger, handsomer, richer, etc, than I am. So we just have to deal with the level of service that each one of us can manage.

[Richmond Fotog]

The forum software works fine and accepts URL's. It also says BB Code is On All you have to do is follow the easy instructions. HTML is off on this forum, so you have to use BB Coding.

http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/misc.php?do=bbcode

USASG's editing software didn't accept the whole link.

[Golfcart]

(edit delete) Meanwhile, I am personally winding down my sb activity and canceling my subscription to the one site I joined. I have a list of babes who will open their pussies for me when I ask them to. I'm not pursuing more. For now.

The only thing worse than not having enough is having too much.

The shelf life of that list is short. Three months can be a lifetime. Getting things going again is more work than before. We become more selective. Eventually we are back to golf and poker.

As the world turns.

[Literal2]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_913373.html

That's it. Thanks Ross.

[Literal2]

Thanks Nando. I looked for the AOL article but wound up reading:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/29

This discusses the various sb / sd sites and interviews participants. It focuses on college girls using sb dating to pay down student loans. Some interesting facts are: the founder of the arrangements site says forty percent of 100, 000 plus women on that site are students; none of the women interviewed think of themselves as prostitutes; some sds are really rich and they get special access on that site; and NYU has the most sbs on that site while Harvard is ninth.

Fascinating reading for our hobby.

Meanwhile, I am personally winding down my sb activity and canceling my subscription to the one site I joined. I have a list of babes who will open their pussies for me when I ask them to. I'm not pursuing more. For now.

After the "/07/29/" you need to add " seeking-arrangement-college-students_n_913373. Html " to be taken directly to the article in the Huffington Post.

USASG's editing software didn't accept the whole link.