Escort Reports

**David Peter** · 09-23-10 20:38

I would like to share my experience about seriously ask for my money back.

About 2 years ago, I called a lady on BP. Arrived at her apartment. I paid $250 for 1 hour FS because she is beautiful and her place is clean and nice. I thought it was my lucky day. She told me to take a shower on my own. After that, she gave me a lame massage and a BJ. It was only 15 minute. I didn't even fuck her yet, and she said time's up. She bullshit that my shower time was included. I politely asked her to give half of my money back and complained that she didn't do what we agreed before. She pushed an alarm button on the wall, and her pimp suddenly appeared with a gun and threaten me out of the apartment. It was a scared moment though. I thought about calling police to arrest her pimp, but I didn't call in the end.

Another time is I have a massage with a late 20s lady. I paid 80$ up front for 1 hour massage which it was actually 40 minutes. Before the massage, she told me I will have a HE at the end. The critical point is that she asked 120$ more for HJ only. I said it is way too much. I offer 60$, but she said 60$ is the money I have to tip her anyway for her massage. It is very unreasonable to me. Because of that attitude, I decided not tip her a penny. And I got into trouble with her boyfriend who was waiting outside the room. I have to tip 40$ to buy my way out. I think 80$ for 40 minutes massage with no extra is a right. Asking for more is like stealing customer's money.

Many other times, I met nice providers and have great times.

**Madtown11** · 09-23-10 15:08

Good topics..definitely what this board is all about. Seems to be a couple of different issues at play. One is whether or not to pay up front and then what to do if short-changed on service and/time.

I've clearly been lucky because I can only remember one time where the woman mentioned/asked for the money up-front. Probably not a coincidence that it was my worst experience in the hobby. Otherwise, I've either laid an envelope in plain sight prior to or after the session (at least 75% of the time) and never had anyone count it in front of me. Again, my experience doesn't seem to be the norm for whatever reason.

With my bad experience, I at least got the expected service but it was one and done and was expected to leave even though I was only 20 minutes into what was supposed to be an hour. I just didn't see the point of arguing with her about it. It wouldn't have been an enjoyable second round or else I'm asking for money back. Personally, it's not worth the risk of somebody coming out to kick my ass or even for the woman to freak out and have the whole thing escalate. It sucks but it's a risk we run in this hobby. My recourse is to not see her again and put up a negative review for others to see.

If a woman consistently provides sub-par service or is blantantly ripping people off, it's going to hit the local boards and their business has to suffer somewhat. Though we all know if she's hot enough, guys will keep giving her a chance thinking it won't happen to them.

**Golfcart** · 09-23-10 09:32

Originally Posted by Permanent Wood

Someone has to enforce the contract, and it sure as hell is not going to be the hoe.

Sure, you can roll over and leave, but you'll be out your hard earned money and still be angry and you will have done nothing but empower the hoe to repeat the same B.S. with someone else.

Or, you can enforce the contract and either finish out the deal or get at least some of your money back.

Don't let these cu*nts walk all over you, and let the ones who have negative reports from reliable sources go dumpster diving, trying her out yourself will more than likely be a waste. A girl could make a pretty good living just being "tried out" by guys who don't listen.

The problem with standing our ground when the woman takes the donation and won't perform is the strategy must have legs, meaning it must work everytime, 9 times out of 10 is no good. That 10th time Bruiser will come through the door, we'll lose our front teeth, or worse, and still not get our money back.

Here is David Peter's post I was addressing below when I told him he did the right thing getting the Hades out of there:

Originally Posted by David Peter

http://madison.backpage.com/FemaleEs...nce-19/3367972

Kelli is a cheater. *** When I entered her room, I paid 175$ for 30 minutes. This girl is a cheater. She didn't give me a BJ. No kissing. I just played with her for 5 minutes and she immediately told me that I only have 10 minutes left and hurry. She just laid there and didn't do anything. What's a bad attitude ! After 10 minutes, she said her time is over and wear her cloths on. *** I told her that it is only 10 minutes and I haven't cum yet. *** She threaten me that her guy is dangerous, so don't mess with her. She told me I have 2 minutes to wear my cloth and leave. I am very angry that this ***** didn't do her job and threaten me. It's fine. I don't want any trouble. I left and felt very angry.

This business has a dangerous side. When something like this happens we have crossed over to the dangerous side and we need to recognize the true situation.

Our choice is (1) stand our ground and get all/some of our money back 9 times out of 10 with Bruiser beating the crap out of us the 10th time, or (2) getting the Hades out of there all 10 times with no marks.

If we know she's 5'0" with no confederates we have some power. But we don't know that. Odds are this is her SOP and she will have Bruiser close by.

I read a post the other day in Louisville. The guy let a SW take him to her "safe house." He ended up using his key-chain mace to avoid being robbed by her confederate. Two weeks later in another post the same guy reported using the mace again at another, you guessed it, "safe house." Now there's a guy who will not be pushed around. But one day he will walk into the wrong situation and end up getting hurt because he refused to walk out. It simply isn't worth it.

FWIW I agree with the observations of others who show the money up front or pay a down payment up front. Good for them. But here I'm talking about what to do when we fork over a 30/60 minute donation for FS and after listening to 10 minutes of rules or playing only 10 minutes she says, "Time's up."

**Permanent Wood** · 09-23-10 07:38

Maybe we should start a contest. I could nominate a couple of horny bastards to participate in the contest. "Prepay Peter" and "Withholding Willy." The contest is to find out what happens first:

1. Does "Prepay Peter" find a who*re who gives horrible service or cheats him on his time, like "Cu*nt Kelli" did, or "Avoid like the Plague Cheri" did, or like "Cash-n-Complain Princess" did? (I could go on)

2. Or, does "Withholding Willy" find a provider who performs satisfactory service before full payment? (examples -- I have to think)

I wouldn't bet the farm, but my money would be on "Prepay Peter" finding a "Cu*nt Kelli" type long before "Withholding Willy" finds a pleasant patient provider to use his strategy on.

**Permanent Wood** · 09-23-10 00:07

Cephlapod Love, you know that's something I do do and would suggest to do, but somehow I inadvertently left it out of my post. You shouldn't assume so much from an omission either. I should add I TRY to do it that way, starting by showing the full amount, but usually if I want to get my meat wet, I end up paying all upfront anyway because the hoe doesn't go for my way.

As far as the part where you speculate that a lot of the girls have been "cheated, robbed, or shorted," well that is part of the risk they assume to be in business, "the nature of the beast."

**Cephlapod Love** · 09-22-10 23:57

Originally Posted by Permanent Wood

Cephlapod Love, good advice and what a coincidence, your strategy is the crux to a report I was making, here it is:

Paying upfront puts your pecker under pressure to perform and the prostitute may purposely piss away your precious playtime anyway.

Another way to lessen your chance of a ripoff or bad service is to withhold part, or preferably, all of the fee until you got what you came for. Now if all hobbyists across the board did that, these hoes would have a change in attitude I guarantee it. There has to be an element of trust between both parties to enter into any type of agreement, but why should the who*re always have the upper hand? She shouldn't. Why should the hobbyist give up all control? He shouldn't.

In any business -- client relationship, the business assumes the greater risk, and that is how it should be. You don't take your car to have the oil changed crossing your fingers and praying that it will get done. Of course not, you expect it will, with little risk on your part. After services are performed, you pay. But if you open up a shop, you do, in fact, cross your fingers and pray hoping that customers will come to you for those oil changes and that they will pay you, you assume the risk. After services are performed, you collect. Whether they pay or not is the risk you take to be in business. A happy customer almost always pays, are you who*res out there listening?

So why in the business of selling pussy should the who*re not have that risk (the risk of being paid)? But the customer does have the risk (the risk of bad service). It's fucked up. The bi*tches have one up on us, probably owed in part (if not all) to how the pimps train their hoes. And if a hoe claims to not have a pimp (usually a lie), she can still accredit this "pay upfront" mentality that she has adopted to the pimp / hoe phenomena, because that is where it came from. In other words, even a hoe who doesn't have a pimp is still using a page out of the pimpin' manual.

Just watched an episode of The People's Court with Judge Milian. Early in the first case, a case where a customer paid for landscaping services in full upfront, Judge Milian said "It's always a bad idea to pay in full upfront for anything (anything includes pussy guys). It's better to pay in halves, thirds, quarter's, even fifths."

Later in the show, Harvey Levin said "Paying upfront takes away the incentive to do the work."

Translation: Paying a hoe upfront removes her incentive to give good service. Thanks Judge Milian and Harvey Levin.

Hey PW - I agree with your premise and points [don't pay ALL of it up front], but not necessarily your style - fwiw. But hey - one guy has this style - the next guy another style. Not that any style is better than another - just what works for me.

I once worked in a government office where I had to interact with the public and most of the people were decent, polite and honest - but oh, let me tell you - there are some real winners out there! ( sarcastic on the "winners")

I think that if a lady works at this long enough she is going to run into at least a few of these "winners." Maybe this hobby attracts more than its fair share of those who want to belittle, harm or rip off the woman? Maybe not?

So I fully understand a lady's need to know that any Tom, Dick of Harry that walks through her door - can pay! While I agree that one shouldn't pay all of it up front, I think the lady needs to see the full fare up front - so she knows you have it and aren't trying to stiff her. [Probably only a subtle difference in our approaches?] Just offering a fraction, up front, without showing the full fare should get you kicked out of the room. If I were her, and had met a bunch of scammers, I'd kick anyone out that hasn't demonstrated an ability to pay. Why would I need to take a chance on some yahoo who, if he isn't honest up front, is probably going to rip me off, get violent or abusive? There's always another horny monger waiting to fill his spot.

Maybe there is a keen line between firmness and meanness? Between being a push over and politely holding one's ground? Maybe there is a difference between a lady with protection/pimp and an indy girl?

Then again, while this may be a "business" it sure is on the fringe of things AND it isn't a landscaping service! Once you nut she's got nothing to hold over your head to get you to pay. The landscaper can come back and rip out the shrubs & trees or file a mechanics lean against the real property to secure collateral against the owed debt. The provider, sans having a pimp nearby, has only her wits or her 5-foot-something 120-pounds against a 200 pound guy? She has no way to get the courts involved in a dispute about pay, no arbitration clause to back up her play.

I guess I'm more willing to cut the girls a break, as I believe most are just trying to make a living in these tough times and aren't looking to rip you off - but most, I am sure, have been cheated, robbed or shorted by customers. If you operated a similar business you'd probably demand money up front as well, no?

So yeah - you presented some good analogies to move the monger mindset from "have to pay up ALL of the fare up front" to a more measured approach. If we can shift the average monger mindset to as you suggest - don't pay all up front, but do demonstrate an ability to pay - we'd probably see a change in attitude in the girls too?

Good Hunting!

CL

**Troubadour** · 09-22-10 19:59

Given these reports, it's really tempting to SMS bomb her, find out where she is and send unsolicited pizzas, set up fake appointments and so on, and then let her know that we expect a certain level of professionalism.

**Permanent Wood** · 09-22-10 18:05

Cephlapod Love, good advice and what a coincidence, your strategy is the crux to a report I was making, here it is:

Paying upfront puts your pecker under pressure to perform and the prostitute may purposely piss away your precious playtime anyway.

Another way to lessen your chance of a ripoff or bad service is to withhold part, or preferably, all of the fee until you got what you came for. Now if all hobbyists across the board did that, these hoes would have a change in attitude I guarantee it. There has to be an element of trust between both parties to enter into any type of agreement, but why should the who*re always have the upper hand? She shouldn't. Why should the hobbyist give up all control? He shouldn't.

In any business -- client relationship, the business assumes the greater risk, and that is how it should be. You don't take your car to have the oil changed crossing your fingers and praying that it will get done. Of course not, you expect it will, with little risk on your part. After services are performed, you pay. But if you open up a shop, you do, in fact, cross your fingers and pray hoping that customers will come to you for those oil changes and that they will pay you, you assume the risk. After services are performed, you collect. Whether they pay or not is the risk you take to be in business. A happy customer almost always pays, are you who*res out there listening?

So why in the business of selling pussy should the who*re not have that risk (the risk of being paid)? But the customer does have the risk (the risk of bad service). It's fucked up. The bi*tches have one up on us, probably owed in part (if not all) to how the pimps train their hoes. And if a hoe claims to not have a pimp (usually a lie), she can still accredit this "pay upfront" mentality that she has adopted to the pimp / hoe phenomena, because that is where it came from. In other words, even a hoe who doesn't have a pimp is still using a page out of the pimpin' manual.

Just watched an episode of The People's Court with Judge Milian. Early in the first case, a case where a customer paid for landscaping services in full upfront, Judge Milian said "It's always a bad idea to pay in full upfront for anything (anything includes pussy guys). It's better to pay in halves, thirds, quarter's, even fifths."

Later in the show, Harvey Levin said "Paying upfront takes away the incentive to do the work."

Translation: Paying a hoe upfront removes her incentive to give good service. Thanks Judge Milian and Harvey Levin.

**Cephlapod Love** · 09-22-10 16:37

Originally Posted by Permanent Wood

Someone has to enforce the contract, and it sure as hell is not going to be the hoe.

Sure, you can roll over and leave, but you'll be out your hard earned money and still be angry and you will have done nothing but empower the hoe to repeat the same B.S. with someone else.

Or, you can enforce the contract and either finish out the deal or get at least some of your money back.

Don't let these cu*nts walk all over you, and let the ones who have negative reports from reliable sources go dumpster diving, trying her out yourself will more than likely be a waste. A girl could make a pretty good living just being "tried out" by guys who don't listen.

Sorry to see this ripoff happening! Glad to see the offender got her justice her - that's the purpose of the board. Takes some guts to step up and admit they got ripped off - so props to y'all!

eh, I'm outta may "approved box," but thought I'd pass along something that has worked for me and others way out this way. Maybe it won't work for you but it is a thought.

When I see a new girl I show her the full fare, to confirm that I have it and to assure her I can pay and won't stiff her. Getting stiffed is usually the reason they ask for the whole thing up front. But instead of handing over the whole thing, I start with a fraction of what she wants upfront 1/3 (or less). I explain that I'm sorry, but have been ripped off in the past and the rest is hers if we finish as agreed - and I point out that there is the potential for a nice tip for exemplary service.

Several buddies are even more severe in their doling out of the cash - 1/5th to start. They call it the "rule of 5ths"! I think that works better with SWs - 1/5 when they get in....

Most of the girls understand and since we have met and they can see I'm on the up & up, they agree to the arrangement. Have had a few balk at this style, most of which I have walked away from. The few that I didn't walk - I sure wish I had.

Might be another way to "take control" up front rather than get into some kind physical altercation afterward. If one takes the money back after "giving" it to her, then technically one is stealing. Put your hands on her to push her away and technically one is assaulting her.

That is why I stick with the up front "test" of part now, part when the job is done. It tends to weed out the idiots pretty fast.

Now back to my "box."

CL

**Permanent Wood** · 09-22-10 14:17

Now she's going by "Jenn."

She seems to change her name with every new town she visits, like a thief on the run.

**Permanent Wood** · 09-22-10 10:11

Someone has to enforce the contract, and it sure as hell is not going to be the hoe.

Sure, you can roll over and leave, but you'll be out your hard earned money and still be angry and you will have done nothing but empower the hoe to repeat the same B.S. with someone else.

Or, you can enforce the contract and either finish out the deal or get at least some of your money back.

Don't let these cu*nts walk all over you, and let the ones who have negative reports from reliable sources go dumpster diving, trying her out yourself will more than likely be a waste. A girl could make a pretty good living just being "tried out" by guys who don't listen.

**Turkey John** · 09-22-10 01:04

Originally Posted by Golfcart

David Peter you did the right thing.

From the initial phone call to walking inside the room, regardless where we are in the process, when something, anything happens that is off-script and is a surprise, we should withdraw from all interaction with the woman and escape WITHOUT SAYING A WORD. This business has a dangerous side. We can be outed, busted or hurt.

We can think of money we will be leaving behind that we could try to reclaim or other things to do instead, but the bottom line is the risks we assumed have changed. We can't predict what will happen next. We are suddenly in surprise mode. Our judgment will not be good. It is time to escape for our own good.

Getting away is the only thing we can do that has no unknown consequences and brings stability. Leave WITHOUT SAYING A WORD.

This will happen to all of us sooner or later.

She looks like a nice piece of ass. Too bad she'as a c*nt. It would be fun to know how much these posts affect her business.

**Golfcart** · 09-21-10 23:00

Originally Posted by David Peter

http://madison.backpage.com/FemaleEs...nce-19/3367972

Kelli is a cheater. ***

*** She threaten me that her guy is dangerous, so don't mess with her. She told me I have 2 minutes to wear my cloth and leave. I am very angry that this ***** didn't do her job and threaten me. It's fine. I don't want any trouble. I left and felt very angry.

I spent my time to write this so you guys won't be cheated as I was.

What should you do when you are in my situation. Can you get you money back ? What can you do to the ***** when she steals your hard-working money like that ? Thanks for any sharing.

David Peter you did the right thing.

From the initial phone call to walking inside the room, regardless where we are in the process, when something, anything happens that is off-script and is a surprise, we should withdraw from all interaction with the woman and escape WITHOUT SAYING A WORD. This business has a dangerous side. We can be outed, busted or hurt.

We can think of money we will be leaving behind that we could try to reclaim or other things to do instead, but the bottom line is the risks we assumed have changed. We can't predict what will happen next. We are suddenly in surprise mode. Our judgment will not be good. It is time to escape for our own good.

Getting away is the only thing we can do that has no unknown consequences and brings stability. Leave WITHOUT SAYING A WORD.

This will happen to all of us sooner or later.

**David Peter** · 09-21-10 22:54

Originally Posted by Permanent Wood

Just what you did, report the B.S. on the forum.

As far as getting your money back, you can but it can be tricky. I usually put my clothes back on as if nothing is wrong, then politely ask for money back to equate the lack of time promised or services agreed on. This gives the wh*ore, who broke the agreement, a chance to make good with a diplomatic approach.

If the cu*nt refuses, which most will, then it is beat down time to "force the refund."

I only use the necessary force to achieve that goal, although I would love to really rail on some of these dumb cu*nts, I usually don't. Dump her purse out, get your refund, and tell her she's lucky you didn't really get mad.

You have to mean it though, act a little crazy or nuts, or she'll smell that you are not serious about using force. Dealing with who*res are like riding a horse, they can sense an inexperienced rider a mile away.

Thanks PW.

I think we both agree that Kelli is very beautiful. I wish her attitude were as good as her beauty, and I will be her regular client. But she fucked up with her bullshit attitude.

I met many girls like Kelli . They look beautiful, but they are stupid. They don't understand that we are people who put foods on their table.

In most cases, I won't do anything but leave without asking money back and never come back. Once time, I seriously asked my money back. That time I paid a lot for 1 hour and the girl only served for 15-20 minutes (including the shower time). Her pimp suddenly walked in the room with a pistol and threaten to shoot me. I realize it is not worth for further troubles.

Anyways, it is my real story. My point is you might get injured or shot by pimps while getting your money back.