General Reports

[Joseleche]

I know it's customary to touch each others goods before talking about price and or services. But... could you get arrested for touching them or exposing yourself to them?

I have always wondered about that. Also, if the grab a John that is LE what's to stop the Cop from lying and say they didn't grab. The are alowed to lie about answering so what to keep them from being touched while under cover?

[Joseleche]

Any story cooked up in advance would have to be nearly perfect. The obvious reason for separation is to make sure you cannot make up a story before questioning or finese a previously agreed-upon story. A correct answer to one question leads to another question until there is a conflict in stories. Moreover, cops can lie so even with a perfect story it is very likely you will be told the other person said something different - and vice versa.

1. About the only strategy one can hope for in advance is to agree that both will say when asked any question is to say, "I respectfully request an attorney be present before I answer any questions." And agree to keep saying it no matter how much one is intimidated. Problem is, you cannot depend on the other person to keep the promise nor can you depend on the other person not to make a deal at your expense.

2. It is always a risk with SWs when they get into your car. They may already be high, they may have a stash with them, they may even have a weapon. It's a risk you take whenever a stranger enters your home or car. Most states have a provision that they can confiscate your vehicle if there are drugs found in the car. If the SW has warrants it is unlikely you have complicity in any thing she may have done but you risk losing your property if she hides a stash under your seat or in the car door pocket if told to get out of the car.

3. If the SW "blabs" you should already have said you respectfully decline to answer any questions without a lawyer present. And stick to it! A lawyer is going to be the only person on your side in these instances and, even if he or she cannot get you off, he or she is the only person who can negotiate a deal such as a reduced charge without going to court.

4. The story is not a good idea. It's too easy to get caught in a lie and you cannot trust the other person to stick to it, or to not embellish it. Nor can you trust the police not to lie to you or to her. In any event, your charge will probably be soliciting a prostitute or some similar language, depending on the state's statutes.

5. It probably pisses off cops any time a person invokes. However, it is a right that is far too often not used and in many instances ends up in self-incrimination. Understand that the right to remain silent does not require that you be totally innocent, it only requires that you make it clear you will not incriminate yourself. If you waive this right, you very likely end up doing the work for the cops. If you do not waive it, then the cops have to work harder to find enough evidence to get a conviction in court if it does go to court.

6. Your friend was lucky. He may have been stopped by a cop who wasn't committed to racking up the violations, who wasn't aggressive unless someone was being aggressive with him (verbal or physical), and was in a good mood when your freind was stopped. Cops can exercise their judgement in any way they want to but even when they say they want to help you or if you just tell them the truth they will let you go, the chances are you WILL be cited for something, if you help them out by incriminating yourself.

7. Beat cops usually have good recall. Inasmuch as your friend did not receive a citation or a conviction, there isn't a record so if he fails to signal a turn in the next town, or is stopped by another cop for some reason, chances are he won't have a problem because of this situation. However, if he is found by the same cop in a questionable neighborhood or in a questionable situation then it is very likely the cop will remember him. They are taught to observe and many have uncanny memories of cars, places and faces.

Bottom line is if you are engaging with SWs you need to be aware of the risks you are taking and be willing to accept the consequences if caught. Making it easy for the cops or trusting the SW is not in your best interests.

Pretty good points.

[IrishMale]

I have a friend (yes, he really is a friend and not I) who was caught in his car with a SW by LE. It caused me to wonder what might happen if I were in similar circumstances and what I should do. . .

My friend cringed as this was tantamount to admitting she was having sex for money...was it not? Would a better strategy have been to say something like they had met at a restaurant (agree which one it was beforehand?), hit it off and were just having some fun? (Still public lewdness or some damn thing if they want to press it?) Maybe agreeing in advance on a story to tell in the event you are surprised by LE is a good plan? . . .

A few questions come to mind:

1. What are some good strategies to plan in advance with a SW to be prepared for this type of situation?

2. Does one have complicit criminal responsibility if the SW has outstanding warrants or has drugs on her person? Suppose she stashes them in your vehicle quickly (and stupidly)?

3. When a SW blabs her head off like that and virtually admits you were having sex for money, what should one do if questioned: disagree? lie? tell the truth and hope for leniency? invoke your right to silence and perhaps piss them off enough to arrest you?

4. IF you both have a story in advance that you are 2 people who met and hit it off and were just having fun, and you stick to the story (which the police probably won't believe anyway), do you risk pissing them off and having them arrest you on some other charge? What charges might those be? (public lewdness or indecency?)

5. I suppose invoking your rights to be silent and not allowing voluntary search are good starts but does one risk pushing the police not to be lenient and just let you go if your record is clean?

6. How much leeway does LE generally exercise in this type of circumstance when your paperwork is in order and you have a squeaky clean record. Is my friend's experience typical or does it really depend on the officers involved and/or where it takes place?

7. Do the police keep a record of the incident and can they use it against my friend on a future occasion to be much less lenient?

Any story cooked up in advance would have to be nearly perfect. The obvious reason for separation is to make sure you cannot make up a story before questioning or finese a previously agreed-upon story. A correct answer to one question leads to another question until there is a conflict in stories. Moreover, cops can lie so even with a perfect story it is very likely you will be told the other person said something different - and vice versa.

1. About the only strategy one can hope for in advance is to agree that both will say when asked any question is to say, "I respectfully request an attorney be present before I answer any questions." And agree to keep saying it no matter how much one is intimidated. Problem is, you cannot depend on the other person to keep the promise nor can you depend on the other person not to make a deal at your expense.

2. It is always a risk with SWs when they get into your car. They may already be high, they may have a stash with them, they may even have a weapon. It's a risk you take whenever a stranger enters your home or car. Most states have a provision that they can confiscate your vehicle if there are drugs found in the car. If the SW has warrants it is unlikely you have complicity in any thing she may have done but you risk losing your property if she hides a stash under your seat or in the car door pocket if told to get out of the car.

3. If the SW "blabs" you should already have said you respectfully decline to answer any questions without a lawyer present. And stick to it! A lawyer is going to be the only person on your side in these instances and, even if he or she cannot get you off, he or she is the only person who can negotiate a deal such as a reduced charge without going to court.

4. The story is not a good idea. It's too easy to get caught in a lie and you cannot trust the other person to stick to it, or to not embellish it. Nor can you trust the police not to lie to you or to her. In any event, your charge will probably be soliciting a prostitute or some similar language, depending on the state's statutes.

5. It probably pisses off cops any time a person invokes. However, it is a right that is far too often not used and in many instances ends up in self-incrimination. Understand that the right to remain silent does not require that you be totally innocent, it only requires that you make it clear you will not incriminate yourself. If you waive this right, you very likely end up doing the work for the cops. If you do not waive it, then the cops have to work harder to find enough evidence to get a conviction in court if it does go to court.

6. Your friend was lucky. He may have been stopped by a cop who wasn't committed to racking up the violations, who wasn't aggressive unless someone was being aggressive with him (verbal or physical), and was in a good mood when your freind was stopped. Cops can exercise their judgement in any way they want to but even when they say they want to help you or if you just tell them the truth they will let you go, the chances are you WILL be cited for something, if you help them out by incriminating yourself.

7. Beat cops usually have good recall. Inasmuch as your friend did not receive a citation or a conviction, there isn't a record so if he fails to signal a turn in the next town, or is stopped by another cop for some reason, chances are he won't have a problem because of this situation. However, if he is found by the same cop in a questionable neighborhood or in a questionable situation then it is very likely the cop will remember him. They are taught to observe and many have uncanny memories of cars, places and faces.

Bottom line is if you are engaging with SWs you need to be aware of the risks you are taking and be willing to accept the consequences if caught. Making it easy for the cops or trusting the SW is not in your best interests.

[Borneo]

By "shamed" I mean followed and harassed, your neighbors contacted about you, etc.

Maybe you drove through an urban area thought to be an area for prostitution.

I'm wondering how common LE uses this practice.

I've had it happen to me. I used to date a girl from the "hood". Apparently that was enough for them to assume I was doing something illegal.

[Betac]

How would LE get outcalls?

Are they taking calls and driving around to visit all the hotels.

Must be tough to do.

BC

[Mad Monger]

I have a friend (yes, he really is a friend and not I) who was caught in his car with a SW by LE. It caused me to wonder what might happen if I were in similar circumstances and what I should do.

It was at night. The squad car pulled up suddenly alongside them on a deserted city street and flashed a bright light in the window. She was partially dressed and had her head in his lap for obvious reasons. He had his pants pulled part way down. The cops immediately asked for ID. First they got the SW out of his car and started questioning her. Their first and immediate concerns were if she had any outstanding warrants and whether she was on drugs or had any drugs on her. Fortunately she had no warrants, had no drugs and told the truth that she was in a methadone program and trying to get her life back together. When asked what she was doing, she said she was just trying to make some money to help pay the bills. My friend cringed as this was tantamount to admitting she was having sex for money...was it not? Would a better strategy have been to say something like they had met at a restaurant (agree which one it was beforehand?), hit it off and were just having some fun? (Still public lewdness or some damn thing if they want to press it?) Maybe agreeing in advance on a story to tell in the event you are surprised by LE is a good plan?

Anyway, the police in this instance let the SW go and she walked away. They kept him stewing there while they checked his paperwork. Everything was in order and up to date: license, insurance, registration. My friend had no record for anything in his life, not even an outstanding parking ticket, which I am sure the police soon discovered. But they let him sweat over it for a while before asking him a few questions like was he married and did he have any kids (yes to both questions). They asked accusingly what the hell he thought he was doing and he just shrugged sheepishly. He wasn't about to babble like the SW had. Whether anything would stick or not he certainly didn't want to be arrested and have the circumstances revealed to the wife when he called to arrange an attorney and/or get bail. As it was they said they would let him go "this time," but they didn't want to see him in this area again EVER.

A few questions come to mind:

1. What are some good strategies to plan in advance with a SW to be prepared for this type of situation?

2. Does one have complicit criminal responsibility if the SW has outstanding warrants or has drugs on her person? Suppose she stashes them in your vehicle quickly (and stupidly)?

3. When a SW blabs her head off like that and virtually admits you were having sex for money, what should one do if questioned: disagree? lie? tell the truth and hope for leniency? invoke your right to silence and perhaps piss them off enough to arrest you?

4. IF you both have a story in advance that you are 2 people who met and hit it off and were just having fun, and you stick to the story (which the police probably won't believe anyway), do you risk pissing them off and having them arrest you on some other charge? What charges might those be? (public lewdness or indecency?)

5. I suppose invoking your rights to be silent and not allowing voluntary search are good starts but does one risk pushing the police not to be lenient and just let you go if your record is clean?

6. How much leeway does LE generally exercise in this type of circumstance when your paperwork is in order and you have a squeaky clean record. Is my friend's experience typical or does it really depend on the officers involved and/or where it takes place?

7. Do the police keep a record of the incident and can they use it against my friend on a future occasion to be much less lenient?

[Dr Nasty]

At an MP I used to frequent (until it shut down last fall) the women always asked me to put the cash into a basket on a table, never directly into their hands. Another MP asked for the cash to be put into a leather folder or wallet, and placed on a table.

Were they trying to circumvent some law? I'm assuming this little ritual had some purpose or they wouldn't have bothered to do it.

Not sure if there are any specific laws they're trying to circumvent or not. I've run into this in various MPs and even from incall girls i.e. "Just put the donation on the dresser!) in several different states. Prostitution laws can vary from city to city and from state to state, as I'm sure you know.

I think that it's really just another misguided attempt to create a paper thin defense. "No your honor, he didn't hand me a dime! He put the money in the basket, I never touched it so I'm not guilty of prostitution!" Right up there with asking a stranger if they're a cop...

Most judges try sex related cases with the "duck law." If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. Did they have sex, or was sex offered? Yes. Was there a monetary exchange of some kind? Yes. You're guilty of prostitution, next case bailiff.

The basket thing is as silly as the fabled "cop check" and the "are you a cop?" question. But when it comes right down to it, I figure one should play along for no other reason than it's for the provider's piece of mind.

[Earl Pitts]

Below is another post (original RB post: massageman2020 from myredbook.com)

Ten Things NOT to do If Arrested:

I have been practicing criminal law for 24 years and have seen a wide variety of reactions by people who are being arrested. Some of these reactions are unwise but understandable. Others are self defeating to the point of being bizarre. No one plans to be arrested, but it might help to think just once about what you will do and not do if you ever hear the phrase "Put your hands behind you." The simplest "to do" rule is to do what you are told. Simple, but somehow it often escapes someone who is either scared or intoxicated. More important to guarding your rights and interests are ten things you SHOULD NOT do:

1. Don't try to convince the officer of your innocence. It's useless. He or she only needs "probable cause" to believe you have committed a crime in order to arrest you. He does not decide your guilt and he actually doesn't care if you are innocent or not. It is the job of the judge or jury to free you if he is wrong. If you feel that urge to convince him he's made a mistake, remember the overwhelming probability that instead you will say at least one thing that will hurt your case, perhaps even fatally. It is smarter to save your defense for your lawyer.

2. Don't run. It's highly unlikely a suspect could outrun ten radio cars converging on a block in mere seconds. I saw a case where a passenger being driven home by a drunk friend bolted and ran. Why? It was the driver they wanted, and she needlessly risked injury in a forceful arrest. Even worse, the police might have suspected she ran because she had a gun, perhaps making them too quick to draw their own firearms. Most police will just arrest a runner, but there are some who will be mad they had to work so hard and injure the suspect unnecessarily.

3. Keep quiet. My hardest cases to defend are those where the suspect got very talkative. Incredibly, many will start babbling without the police having asked a single question. My most vivid memory of this problem was the armed robbery suspect who blurted to police: "How could the guy identify me? The robbers were wearing masks." To which the police smiled and responded, "Oh? Were they?" Judges and juries will discount or ignore what a suspect says that helps him, but give great weight to anything that seems to hurt him. In 24 years of criminal practice, I could count on one hand the number of times a suspect was released because of what he told the police after they arrested him.

4. Don't give permission to search anywhere. If they ask, it probably means they don't believe they have the right to search and need your consent. If you are ordered to hand over your keys, state loudly "You do NOT have my permission to search." If bystanders hear you, whatever the police find may be excluded from evidence later. This is also a good reason not to talk, even if it seems all is lost when they find something incriminating.

5. If the police are searching your car or home, don't look at the places you wish they wouldn't search. Don't react to the search at all, and especially not to questions like "Who does this belong to?"

6. Don't resist arrest. Above all, do not push the police or try to swat their hands away. That would be assaulting an officer and any slight injury to them will turn your minor misdemeanor arrest into a felony. A petty shoplifter can wind up going to state prison that way. Resisting arrest (such as pulling away) is merely a misdemeanor and often the police do not even charge that offense. Obviously, striking an officer can result in serious injury to you as well.

7. Try to resist the temptation to mouth off at the police, even if you have been wrongly arrested. Police have a lot of discretion in what charges are brought. They can change a misdemeanor to a felony, add charges, or even take the trouble to talk directly to the prosecutor and urge him to go hard on you. On the other hand, I have seen a client who was friendly to the police and talked sports and such on the way to the station. They gave him a break. Notice he did not talk about his case, however.

8. Do not believe what the police tell you in order to get you to talk. The law permits them to lie to a suspect in order to get him to make admissions. For example, they will separate two friends who have been arrested and tell the first one that the second one squealed on him. The first one then squeals on the second, though in truth the second one never said anything. An even more common example is telling a suspect that if he talks to the police, "it will go easier." Well, that's sort of true. It will be much easier for the police to prove their case. I can't remember too many cases where the prosecutor gave the defendant an easier deal because he waived his right to silence and confessed.

9. If at home, do not invite the police inside, nor should you "step outside." If the police believe you have committed a felony, they usually need an arrest warrant to go into your home to arrest you. If they ask you to "step outside", you will have solved that problem for them. The correct responses are: "I am comfortable talking right here.", "No, you may not come in.", or "Do you have a warrant to enter or to arrest me in my home?" I am not suggesting that you run. In fact, that is the best way to ensure the harshest punishment later on. But you may not find it so convenient to be arrested Friday night when all the courts and law offices are closed. With an attorney, you can perhaps surrender after bail arrangements are made and spend NO time in custody while your case is pending.

10. If you are arrested outside your home, do not accept any offers to let you go inside to get dressed, change, get a jacket, call your wife, or any other reason. The police will of course escort you inside and then search everywhere they please, again without a warrant. Likewise decline offers to secure your car safely.

That's it: Ten simple rules that will leave as many of your rights intact as possible if you are arrested. How about a short test? You have a fight with your live-in girlfriend and the police come and find you on the sidewalk two houses down from the apartment. The girlfriend points you out and the police arrest you for assault. They tell you they don't intend to question you. They just want your name and address. Do you answer? Well, you shouldn't. Your address is the single most damaging admission you could make. If you admit living with her, you have just converted a misdemeanor assault into a felony punishable by state prison. When you are arrested it is their game, and you don't know the rules. It is best to be silent and let the attorney handle it later. The bottom line is that if the police have enough evidence to arrest, they will. If they don't, you could easily provide that missing evidence by talking.

- - ------ (name omitted here by me)
Attorney at Law.

I'm not an attorney but I have had some issues with the legal system. I very much appreciated your advice and would only add "Do not represent yourself, get an attorney, its the cheapest way out of trouble". Other than that I think you covered everything.

[Member #4236]

Below is another post (original RB post: massageman2020 from myredbook.com)

Ten Things NOT to do If Arrested:

I have been practicing criminal law for 24 years and have seen a wide variety of reactions by people who are being arrested. Some of these reactions are unwise but understandable. Others are self defeating to the point of being bizarre. No one plans to be arrested, but it might help to think just once about what you will do and not do if you ever hear the phrase "Put your hands behind you." The simplest "to do" rule is to do what you are told. Simple, but somehow it often escapes someone who is either scared or intoxicated. More important to guarding your rights and interests are ten things you SHOULD NOT do:

1. Don't try to convince the officer of your innocence. It's useless. He or she only needs "probable cause" to believe you have committed a crime in order to arrest you. He does not decide your guilt and he actually doesn't care if you are innocent or not. It is the job of the judge or jury to free you if he is wrong. If you feel that urge to convince him he's made a mistake, remember the overwhelming probability that instead you will say at least one thing that will hurt your case, perhaps even fatally. It is smarter to save your defense for your lawyer.

2. Don't run. It's highly unlikely a suspect could outrun ten radio cars converging on a block in mere seconds. I saw a case where a passenger being driven home by a drunk friend bolted and ran. Why? It was the driver they wanted, and she needlessly risked injury in a forceful arrest. Even worse, the police might have suspected she ran because she had a gun, perhaps making them too quick to draw their own firearms. Most police will just arrest a runner, but there are some who will be mad they had to work so hard and injure the suspect unnecessarily.

3. Keep quiet. My hardest cases to defend are those where the suspect got very talkative. Incredibly, many will start babbling without the police having asked a single question. My most vivid memory of this problem was the armed robbery suspect who blurted to police: "How could the guy identify me? The robbers were wearing masks." To which the police smiled and responded, "Oh? Were they?" Judges and juries will discount or ignore what a suspect says that helps him, but give great weight to anything that seems to hurt him. In 24 years of criminal practice, I could count on one hand the number of times a suspect was released because of what he told the police after they arrested him.

4. Don't give permission to search anywhere. If they ask, it probably means they don't believe they have the right to search and need your consent. If you are ordered to hand over your keys, state loudly "You do NOT have my permission to search." If bystanders hear you, whatever the police find may be excluded from evidence later. This is also a good reason not to talk, even if it seems all is lost when they find something incriminating.

5. If the police are searching your car or home, don't look at the places you wish they wouldn't search. Don't react to the search at all, and especially not to questions like "Who does this belong to?"

6. Don't resist arrest. Above all, do not push the police or try to swat their hands away. That would be assaulting an officer and any slight injury to them will turn your minor misdemeanor arrest into a felony. A petty shoplifter can wind up going to state prison that way. Resisting arrest (such as pulling away) is merely a misdemeanor and often the police do not even charge that offense. Obviously, striking an officer can result in serious injury to you as well.

7. Try to resist the temptation to mouth off at the police, even if you have been wrongly arrested. Police have a lot of discretion in what charges are brought. They can change a misdemeanor to a felony, add charges, or even take the trouble to talk directly to the prosecutor and urge him to go hard on you. On the other hand, I have seen a client who was friendly to the police and talked sports and such on the way to the station. They gave him a break. Notice he did not talk about his case, however.

8. Do not believe what the police tell you in order to get you to talk. The law permits them to lie to a suspect in order to get him to make admissions. For example, they will separate two friends who have been arrested and tell the first one that the second one squealed on him. The first one then squeals on the second, though in truth the second one never said anything. An even more common example is telling a suspect that if he talks to the police, "it will go easier." Well, that's sort of true. It will be much easier for the police to prove their case. I can't remember too many cases where the prosecutor gave the defendant an easier deal because he waived his right to silence and confessed.

9. If at home, do not invite the police inside, nor should you "step outside." If the police believe you have committed a felony, they usually need an arrest warrant to go into your home to arrest you. If they ask you to "step outside", you will have solved that problem for them. The correct responses are: "I am comfortable talking right here.", "No, you may not come in.", or "Do you have a warrant to enter or to arrest me in my home?" I am not suggesting that you run. In fact, that is the best way to ensure the harshest punishment later on. But you may not find it so convenient to be arrested Friday night when all the courts and law offices are closed. With an attorney, you can perhaps surrender after bail arrangements are made and spend NO time in custody while your case is pending.

10. If you are arrested outside your home, do not accept any offers to let you go inside to get dressed, change, get a jacket, call your wife, or any other reason. The police will of course escort you inside and then search everywhere they please, again without a warrant. Likewise decline offers to secure your car safely.

That's it: Ten simple rules that will leave as many of your rights intact as possible if you are arrested. How about a short test? You have a fight with your live-in girlfriend and the police come and find you on the sidewalk two houses down from the apartment. The girlfriend points you out and the police arrest you for assault. They tell you they don't intend to question you. They just want your name and address. Do you answer? Well, you shouldn't. Your address is the single most damaging admission you could make. If you admit living with her, you have just converted a misdemeanor assault into a felony punishable by state prison. When you are arrested it is their game, and you don't know the rules. It is best to be silent and let the attorney handle it later. The bottom line is that if the police have enough evidence to arrest, they will. If they don't, you could easily provide that missing evidence by talking.

- - ------ (name omitted here by me)
Attorney at Law.

[Northsideman]

At an MP I used to frequent (until it shut down last fall) the women always asked me to put the cash into a basket on a table, never directly into their hands. Another MP asked for the cash to be put into a leather folder or wallet, and placed on a table.

Were they trying to circumvent some law? I'm assuming this little ritual had some purpose or they wouldn't have bothered to do it.

[Pussylicker2]

In short, making statements to police cannot help you, they can only hurt you. KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!

This should be the FIRST rule of all mongering.

[Hell On Wls]

I just posted this on the Nevada Board but feel all should know and be careful. HH

CARSON CITY (AP) — Nevada legislators were urged Wednesday to impose civil penalties of up to $1 million, in addition to any criminal charges, on sex traffickers who lure or force children into prostitution.

Assemblyman John Hambrick, R-Las Vegas, said his AB380 would allow for a $100, 000 penalty if offenders traffic in prostitutes 14 to 17 years old, a $500, 000 penalty if the child is less than 14, and a $1 million fine if the offender is part of a conspiracy to prostitute children.

Hambrick told the Assembly Judiciary Committee that his bill, whose co-sponsors include Judiciary Chairman Bernie Anderson, D-Sparks, also would enable authorities to freeze and eventually seize assets of those involved in child prostitution.

"We’re talking about potentially millions of dollars in this industry, and I want to have the courts to have the capability to freeze these assets, " Hambrick said.

Hambrick said the big fines would be used to help the victimized children, and to help cover costs of prosecuting traffickers who have the money to hire high-powered lawyers.

For those involved in prostitution rings, "going to jail is a cost of doing business, " Hambrick said. "When you start going after their pocketbooks, they will be reacting a little differently. "

The civil fines are "staggering" but are warranted given the "horrendous" amount of organized child prostitution in southern Nevada, he added.

Also backing the bill was Dr. Lois Lee, head of Los Angeles-based Children of the Night which helps children victimized by prostitution, who said Nevada lacks similar programs.

Joe Murrin of Las Vegas told lawmakers that Lee’s organization helped his daughter get away from prostitution that began when she was a minor, adding, "Laws need to be stiffened. These are not victimless crimes. "

Las Vegas Metro Police Sgt. Vic Vigna said Las Vegas has been identified by the FBI as one of 14 cities around the country with high rates of child prostitution. He said Metro vice officers handled 150 cases of child prostitution last year and already have more than 50 so far this year.

Vigna termed the bill "an obvious and positive step in the right direction, " adding, "And although the civil penalties seem staggering, the amount of money that these panderers are generating is even more staggering. " He noted one trafficker arrested by Metro officers had $400, 000 in cash.

Also backing the bill was Susan Roske, a chief deputy Clark County public defender who works with youths arrested for prostitution and described them as victims "forced into modern-day slavery" by abusive pimps.

"It’s easy to label these children as ****** or prostitutes, " Roske said, adding, "But these children are not responsible for their circumstances and I urge you to see them as they truly are, abused and traumatized children. "

[Bugbear]

Hi all!

First of all, let me thank you all for a good forum that has provided me with much good information so far. It could be more lively, but I guess there are many like me - lurkers.

I have been looking at Craigslist for a while now, and see that lots of providers advertise there. This is to a much lesser extent true in Europe. But then again, in most countries advertising is legal, so there are other arenas for it I guess. I have not acted on my "desire" to contact anyone there so far. But I was wondering if anyone could give me some tips on how to avoid being set up by LE through Craigslist. I know there are some tricks to street mongering. How do you filter out LE online?

[Radical Guy]

I am an attorney, with about 20-30 percent of my practice devoted to criminal defense. I would like to comment that, by and large, law enforcement's single best source of evidence comes from the defendant's big mouth AFTER the defendant makes contact with a police officer. Here's a common example.

I had a client who picked up a SW. On the way to his motel room, he was pulled over by the police. One officer took the SW out and questioned her, and the other one questioned my client. The cop told the client that he should "tell the truth" because it would be "best" for him, etc. Etc. The cop also implied that the SW would tell the officers what's going on anyway, so the client may as well "come clean. " Well, my client spilled the beans and stated that, yes, he had offered money for sex, and that they were on the way to a motel to consumate the deal. Based on my client's confession, he was convicted.

Some people believe that if an officer doesn't read you your Miranda rights, then your statements cannot be used against you. WRONG! Miranda applies only to CUSTODIAL interrogations. So, if you are handcuffed in a police car, then the police need to Mirandize you before questioning. But, simply asking questions prior to taking a suspect into custody does not require Miranda warnings for the statements to be admissible. Police are, of course, well trained in intimidation tactics.

So, what should you do? Should you lie and say something like, "Oh, I was just giving her a ride"? Absolutely not! Never lie to a police officer because (1) false statements to LE is generally a crime by itself, and (2) your lie can be used to impeach your credibility and evince a consiousness of guilt. So never, repeat NEVER, lie to a LE officer.

The best thing to do when questioned by an officer is simply say, "With all due respect, officer, I decline to make any statements. " Or, "With all due respect, officer, I am invoking my right to remain silent. " If the cop keeps on asking questions, simply repeat that statement.

People are generally loathe to refuse to answer questions because they think that such a refusal could be construed as an admission of guilt. This is absolutely FALSE! People have a constitutional right to remain silent and refuse to answer LE questions. Thus, if you are arrested, the fact that you refused to answer questions could not even be brought up in court. The prosecuting attorney could not say to a jury, "Obviously, the defendant is guilty because he did not coooperate with police. " No, the prosecution must rely on whatever evidence they have unrelated to any admissions or refusals to talk by the defendant. In the state where I practice, to ensure that the prosecution doesn't even raise this issue, I use a device called a "Motion in Limine" prior to the actual trial (and outside the presence of the jury), wherein I ask the judge to, in essence, order the prosecution to not even make any reference to my client's refusal to answer questions. The judge invariably grants the motion, and the DA is gagged.

In short, making statements to police cannot help you, they can only hurt you. In most of my criminal cases, if my client had only kept his or her mouth shut, the police would not have had enough evidence to make an arrest, let alone obtain a conviction. And as for the threat that the SW will "spill the beans, " I would not worry too much about that (unless she is a LE decoy) because her testimony alone would probably have absolutely no credibility.

If you keep your mouth shut when encountering police, and just politely refuse to answer questions, then police and prosecution will have to rely on other evidence to convict you. Well, at this point, there's nothing you can do about that, although, your attorney may be able to spin it to your favor. However, a defendant's own statements, if legally obtained by LE, are very difficult to refute in court.

Of course, as an attorney, I should point out that the best way to avoid legal problems is to never commit any crimes. With that said, remember to KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!

[Pussylicker2]

I've only used CL a few times, and with the reports I've heard in the news, I'm real leary of using it again. Ok, you answer an ad, you show up, you get arrested. Is there a way to avoid arrest, assuming that LE ran the ad?

I wonder if the old fashioned newspaper ads aren't a better way, LE doesn't seem to worry about newspaper ads.