My Suggestions. Rules For BackPage

[Shampoo55]

Constructive possession is the legal possession of an object, even if it was not in a person's direct physical control. Often used in criminal law prosecutions for possession crimes, such as possession of illegal drugs. Generally, for a court to find that a person had constructive possession of an object, the person must have had knowledge of the object, and as well as the ability to control it. For example, someone with keys to a safe deposit box may have constructive possession to the contents of that box, and the owner of a car may have constructive possession of the contents of its trunk.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/constructive_possession

Not that you need the hassle, but the burden of proof is on the prosecution to show that the car owner was aware of the object, drugs in this case. Any decent defence attorney can beat this charge.

Er, um, ah. Maybe. Not being argumentative here, just providing a different perspective. One can best make decisions when one has different views to consider.

I'll refer readers to the post by Afraven on how he got jammed up when the regular girl he scooped dumped drugs in his car. He had no knowledge of the drugs and they were only found after a dog alerted and provided probable cause for a search. Did the prosecutors have to prove he knew about the drugs? Doesn't sound like it. Also doesn't sound like a "good defense attorney" was able to get him out of the charges, either.

http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/show...orts&p=4804397#post4804397.

Point is stay away from drugs in the hobby. If you need to get into the technicalities of "constructive possession" then you are spending some big bucks on a lawyer, you have an arrest record, etc.

The law is made up of more than what is written in the "Code". Many details and intricacies that get "added" through cases that are decided (case law). The reason an attorney gets the big bucks is that they know the Code and the Case Law and how that case law is ever changing on a daily basis. Also the facts of each case are unique and standing at 30,000 feet and trying to apply knowledge may miss the particular facts of any case. But for my money, I'd rather keep tings on a misdemeanor level than escalate to felony level with drugs involved.

All FWIW, YMMV! Stay safe!

[Homey D]

Constructive Possession

There is this legal concept that the police know very well. Ask any druggie. Called "Constructive Possession". now any druggie isn't going to know that formal name, but sure can tell you of having charges "put on them" when they didn't have or "possess" the drugs. So, What this means is that any drugs found in your car, (What if she dumps her stash in the console as you are being pulled over?), found in a motel room you are occupying or found in proximity to you, CAN be deemed to belong to you or possessed by you! Google the if you don't believe me. So what happens is that LE will arrest EVERYONE in proximity to the drugs, everyone under this legal concept is seen as having possessed the drugs. Crazy, right? 5 people in a car and everyone of them is deemed to possess the same drugs? That sadly is the reality! Now drug charges just do not "go away" and to get out of it one needs to hire a lawyer, and even then, unless someone admits to those being their drugs, the prosecutor is going to nail you. Oh, and not sure IF one does get out of drug charges if perhaps the arrest still stays on your record?

So, I'm just a scared idiot out there- so any girl who obviously has drugs or wants to buy them in my presence or who wants to use them while I am around gets kicked out! PERIOD. The point of having a zero tolerance policy on drugs is THE LAW. Constructive possession. If the drugs are on the girl or in her bag AND she claims the bag or drugs as hers, then she gets the charges! However, she stashes them in your car or you are in the proximity of the drugs and you can and likely will be charged with possession.

So me? Rather safe than sorry. I'm just saying.

Constructive possession is the legal possession of an object, even if it was not in a person's direct physical control. Often used in criminal law prosecutions for possession crimes, such as possession of illegal drugs. Generally, for a court to find that a person had constructive possession of an object, the person must have had knowledge of the object, and as well as the ability to control it. For example, someone with keys to a safe deposit box may have constructive possession to the contents of that box, and the owner of a car may have constructive possession of the contents of its trunk.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/constructive_possession

Not that you need the hassle, but the burden of proof is on the prosecution to show that the car owner was aware of the object, drugs in this case. Any decent defence attorney can beat this charge.

[Cephlapod Love]

Now while I know most SW girls are dating for drugs and inevitably a lot of BP girls could be into drugs as well, it is critical IMHO to keep drugs out of the hobbying experience.

My point is that drug charges are felonies. Felonies stay on your record (the arrest) even if the charges are dropped (unless you pay more for an expungement process (if your state has that)). Plus, once charged one is going to need an expensive attorney to deal with or get out of the charges.

Penalties for dudes who solicit prostitution are usually misdemeanor crimes: low fines, no jail time. Drug charges as felonies mean high fines and potential jail time, let alone job troubles in the future.

When LE sets up stings in a motel they often ask the dudes to bring drugs with them. LE knows the solicitation charges are minor, but can look better to management if they also get a bunch of drugs off the streets too! It makes their bust look better, more cost effective when drug charges can be included.

So if a girl asks you to bring her drugs to a date, that is a HUGE red flag. Just don't do it!

THEN there is the legal concept of constructive possession....

Constructive Possession

There is this legal concept that the police know very well. Ask any druggie. Called "Constructive Possession". now any druggie isn't going to know that formal name, but sure can tell you of having charges "put on them" when they didn't have or "possess" the drugs. So, What this means is that any drugs found in your car, (What if she dumps her stash in the console as you are being pulled over?), found in a motel room you are occupying or found in proximity to you, CAN be deemed to belong to you or possessed by you! Google the if you don't believe me. So what happens is that LE will arrest EVERYONE in proximity to the drugs, everyone under this legal concept is seen as having possessed the drugs. Crazy, right? 5 people in a car and everyone of them is deemed to possess the same drugs? That sadly is the reality! Now drug charges just do not "go away" and to get out of it one needs to hire a lawyer, and even then, unless someone admits to those being their drugs, the prosecutor is going to nail you. Oh, and not sure IF one does get out of drug charges if perhaps the arrest still stays on your record?

So, I'm just a scared idiot out there- so any girl who obviously has drugs or wants to buy them in my presence or who wants to use them while I am around gets kicked out! PERIOD. The point of having a zero tolerance policy on drugs is THE LAW. Constructive possession. If the drugs are on the girl or in her bag AND she claims the bag or drugs as hers, then she gets the charges! However, she stashes them in your car or you are in the proximity of the drugs and you can and likely will be charged with possession.

So me? Rather safe than sorry. I'm just saying.

[MeyghaMann]

Great! These were the commandments I was looking for.

[MeyghaMann]

Now while I know most SW girls are dating for drugs and inevitably a lot of BP girls could be into drugs as well, it is critical IMHO to keep drugs out of the hobbying experience.

My point is that drug charges are felonies. Felonies stay on your record (the arrest) even if the charges are dropped (unless you pay more for an expungement process (if your state has that)). Plus, once charged one is going to need an expensive attorney to deal with or get out of the charges.

Penalties for dudes who solicit prostitution are usually misdemeanor crimes: low fines, no jail time. Drug charges as felonies mean high fines and potential jail time, let alone job troubles in the future.

When LE sets up stings in a motel they often ask the dudes to bring drugs with them. LE knows the solicitation charges are minor, but can look better to management if they also get a bunch of drugs off the streets too! It makes their bust look better, more cost effective when drug charges can be included.

So if a girl asks you to bring her drugs to a date, that is a HUGE red flag. Just don't do it!


THEN there is the legal concept of constructive possession....

Imagine if you get caught up in something like this. Your life is ruined.

[MarcAlec]

Your the man for this post bro!

After reading the post about being safe and not to talk about what you're looking for reminded me of a time when Luxsa was between locations. Called the number posted and was told they were in a rented house up the road. Two women led me to a massage table in the back room and asked I get comfortable and leave donation on the table. I did as asked and they both came in the room fully clothed, slapped some oil on my back and rubbed. Can't remember if I was covered or not but the gals were cute and upon flip, it was obvious I thought so. They never even got close to touching me inappropriately but kept asking if I wanted more, my response was something like "What are you offering", no response. This went on for a good 1/2 hr - 45 min then 1 gal left the room, came back and excused themselves and left together. I got dressed, grabbed the donation back off the table and walked out. I thought maybe they were worried about me and moved on. Hmmm? Be Safe and in control.

[DWillnj609]

As a relative newbie who wants to stay out of trouble, this was incredibly helpful! Thanks.

Your the man for this post bro!

[Cephlapod Love]

I would emphasize recon and be paranoid. It helps you walk away from a bad situation, very easily. Also, if they ever ask details they don't need to know like what kind of car your driving. You need to run. Alos, if your not from that part of town. I would suggest drive around it and see what its like. Don't go in blind.

Good point! Recon is an excellent idea! Always know who is down the block, around the corner, in the alley behind, etc. Be aware of the surroundings!

One technique I have used when asked about the car I am arriving in is to give a description of a different car. If you have two cars, one could describe the car they will not be driving. Or use a description of the neighbor's car! If she asks, one can always say that the other car was blocked in, out of gas or SO took it. Showing up in a different car has never been a problem with a legit girl.

[Furrber]

I would emphasize recon and be paranoid. It helps you walk away from a bad situation, very easily. Also, if they ever ask details they don't need to know like what kind of car your driving. You need to run. Alos, if your not from that part of town. I would suggest drive around it and see what its like. Don't go in blind.

[FatSo543]

Look, bottom line is that paying for a rubdown, dancing, stripping or some other service is NOT illegal. You can pay a girl to read Emily Dickinson to you if you want. If that heats you up. If you want to talk to all of your potential dates about illegal things that include "sex acts for money," then hey, have at it! Yeah, in those cases, you would have said whatever LE needs you to say in order to make an arrest, so look to end up on the evening news. But if you have an agreement with your date for a rub or dancing then what happens after that might be hard to prove was paid for.

Not that I have omnipotent observations but. Me thinks the decoy / cop is going to try to get you to say some form of "sex for money" in their presence. Often there are two girls in the room which IMHO is a red flag for a couple of reasons. Also assume that the room is bugged. Have not seen cases where phone conversations or emails were used as the "proof" for solicitation without the dude offering "sex for money" in person. Connecting a 'voice on a phone,' a phone number or emails with the live person standing in the room would require the kind of time (warrants, subpoena) that just aren't worth it for a misdemeanor. But hey, call or text them from your cell phone registered in your name and by all means carry that phone into the date! NOT!

So here are my 22 Rules for Dating off BP? Can you take short cuts from all this work? Sure and you can become a statistic too.

1) Look at the pics. If it is too good to be true (TGTBT), then it probably is. Top pros with websites and Eros level prices are usually the exception.

2) Check out the images. Use Tineye or Google Image.

3) What do the pictures tell you? Traveler? Regular poster? Fake pictures?

4) Fake pictures are ones that are borrowed from another website. Fake pics are also pro level shots "altered" to look amateur like. If you can't tell the difference. Back off and watch the posts for 3-months until your eye is trained.

5) Travelers, while they maybe legit and good dates can tend to have low incentive to provide a great date under the hit & run philosophy. If your not looking for repeat clients because your gone in a week, then level of service isn't of concern. Also watch for Vegas and NV area codes! You want to avoid the hardcore pro girls who know how to separate you from your hard earned cash.

6) Check the girl's number with a search engine or one of the Escort Phone number search sites. Ibid all of the above.

7) Check for reviews of the girl on USA, TER or other review type sites.

8) NEVER call a potential date from your regular cell phone that has your name, address, etc, attached to it!

8) Have a Google Voice account set up. USE IT!

9) Use a burner or hobby phone with the GV.

10) Don't buy a hobby phone with a credit card, ATM card or debit card, don't set it up with your name, address, etc.

11) When contacting the girl, be polite, know your spending limits.

12) Ask the girl about the value of her time for a massage, rubdown, dancing or reading poetry to you!

13) NEVER ask about specific acts and / or the cost of such.

14) Any girl that says it is $100 for a s*ck & f*ck is breaking the law and is either a cop or is incredibly ignorant. I'd avoid both.

15) If meeting a girl at a hotel / motel get there well in advance and do some recon. See a bunch of unmarked cars in the lot? Any vans with tinted windows and people inside? Any buses or meat packing style trucks around? When approaching the room what does one hear in the hallway from the other rooms. Bunch of cops shooting the breeze, interrogating the last suspect? What happens if you walk past the door and return a few minutes later?

16) When entering the room. Is there more than one girl there? Better ask about that right away. Consider leaving.

17) Check the rest of the room or suite for other people. More than just the girl is a red flag. Check for an unlocked adjoining door.

18) When closing the door, add the security chain or throw the safety bar. Can't imagine a cop allowing them self to be cut-off from outside help like that.

19) Ask to do the cop check thing and do a verbal play-by-play! Say, "Oh yer pussy feels so wet", or "Oh your hand on my hard di*ck feels nice!" If the prosecutor is going to use a tape to nab you, might as well get embarrassing evidence included.

20) Never take anything into the date that you don't want to loose or have used against you. Suggest carrying just the Poetry Reading Fee, your copy of Emily Dickinson and a car key. Period. No cell phones, no wads of cash, no expensive jewelry, no high-priced watches, etc.

21) NEVER TALK SEX FOR MONEY! Never hand the money to the girl! Lay it on a table, TV, counter, etc, away from the girl with NO comment. You can look at it, just do not talk about it. Some slick ways to do this is have it in an envelop with the words, "fee for reading poetry" written on it. You can use the bathroom and leave it in there and then ask the girl to check something in the bathroom for you.

22) If she makes statements about sex for money, before she is fully naked and holding yer Johnson, say "I have no idea what your talking about, I came for a rub, dancing, poetry reading and turn and leave.

Can you follow all of these rules and still get arrested? Sure. Anything can happen. But if you follow these rules the chances of anything sticking are pretty darn slim.

Play safe, play knowledgeable.

Happy hunting!

these are just the best I could come up with. I hope others with more experience will add to the list

As a relative newbie who wants to stay out of trouble, this was incredibly helpful! Thanks.

[Cephlapod Love]

Now while I know most SW girls are dating for drugs and inevitably a lot of BP girls could be into drugs as well, it is critical IMHO to keep drugs out of the hobbying experience.

My point is that drug charges are felonies. Felonies stay on your record (the arrest) even if the charges are dropped (unless you pay more for an expungement process (if your state has that)). Plus, once charged one is going to need an expensive attorney to deal with or get out of the charges.

Penalties for dudes who solicit prostitution are usually misdemeanor crimes: low fines, no jail time. Drug charges as felonies mean high fines and potential jail time, let alone job troubles in the future.

When LE sets up stings in a motel they often ask the dudes to bring drugs with them. LE knows the solicitation charges are minor, but can look better to management if they also get a bunch of drugs off the streets too! It makes their bust look better, more cost effective when drug charges can be included.

So if a girl asks you to bring her drugs to a date, that is a HUGE red flag. Just don't do it!

THEN there is the legal concept of constructive possession....

[Cephlapod Love]

Must not be to trusted if you do this with the trusted. Most of the established girls ask for donation to be left somewhere in view. If your dealing with the junkies and rip off artist then I can see that. Top line providers I follow the request for how donation is received. Once I become trusted by them if they relax the rules then that's fine too.

OP didn't say what level of girl he was dealing with, so don't see any point in casting aspersions on anyone's character?

Methods for dealing with the "pay up front" request are found in post #11 below.

Yes, the true professional girls, the ones who take it seriously and have professional websites and charge north of 200 tend to have a different set of rules. But that represents what 5% of all BP posters? So these rules are useful for dudes seeing the remaining 95%- which includes many cons, etc.

[Cephlapod Love]

I think that incalls are just too risky unless it is with a provider you know and trust thru having been with her multiple times. Any incall location can be set up by the cops to snag mongers easily with today's technology. IMHO, a motel room at $50 to $70 dollars is available pretty much any time across the country, and renting your own room is in every case going to be safer than a girl's incall. In fact, no undercover cop is going to let you pick her up somewhere and take her for a ride to a motel. And if you do pick up a girl with a room in mind and she starts asking you about money for services before she is in the car and you are rolling well away from the pick up spot, then what you have is a huge red flag waving in your face. The answer to such questions is "We are just going to find a nice place to have a cup of joe," and keep driving. If you pick up a girl to drive to a place, make sure you watch your 6, change direction and watch for any cars that seem to be following. Again, it would be, I think, extremely rare for a sting group to allow their bait to be drivin 100 yards down the road for anything. So the expense of a motel room is again I think well worth the decrease in risk. Lawyers are a lot more than $70.00.

Cheech.

Yes, you are correct as with Street Walkers, very few LE decoys are going to get in your car and loose control over their person by doing so. So that is correct.

But this thread is about techniques and ideas of how to reduce the risks associated with dating off BP which inevitably involves going to a girl's hotel room. IF one follows the steps laid out here, then they have minimized the risk of an arrest. Where is the risk if you have NOT discussed sex acts for money and have asked for a legitimate service like massage, dancing, or Poetry Reading?

Then again, why couldn't one pick up the girl, under the pretense of going to a motel, drive her around the block and then return to HER motel room? Wouldn't that remove the risk, using your theory that no LE decoy is going to get into your car?

Just avoiding incall is one way to manage risk, hopefully one can learn other methods or techniques from this thread for managing risk.

[John HandCock]

I never ever pay upfront anymore. I did it once and got ripped off. She wants money upfront I walk out. I don't care how good her reviews are. Money stays with me out of her sight. No negotiating on this. Even with my trusted providers I always pay after the session.

Must not be to trusted if you do this with the trusted. Most of the established girls ask for donation to be left somewhere in view. If your dealing with the junkies and rip off artist then I can see that. Top line providers I follow the request for how donation is received. Once I become trusted by them if they relax the rules then that's fine too.

[Cheech1]

I think that incalls are just too risky unless it is with a provider you know and trust thru having been with her multiple times. Any incall location can be set up by the cops to snag mongers easily with today's technology. IMHO, a motel room at $50 to $70 dollars is available pretty much any time across the country, and renting your own room is in every case going to be safer than a girl's incall. In fact, no undercover cop is going to let you pick her up somewhere and take her for a ride to a motel. And if you do pick up a girl with a room in mind and she starts asking you about money for services before she is in the car and you are rolling well away from the pick up spot, then what you have is a huge red flag waving in your face. The answer to such questions is "We are just going to find a nice place to have a cup of joe," and keep driving. If you pick up a girl to drive to a place, make sure you watch your 6, change direction and watch for any cars that seem to be following. Again, it would be, I think, extremely rare for a sting group to allow their bait to be drivin 100 yards down the road for anything. So the expense of a motel room is again I think well worth the decrease in risk. Lawyers are a lot more than $70.00.

Cheech.