"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[HollywoodGuy]

If I remember correctly for every 100 men there were something like 105 or 106 women. Don't quote me on that, but I do know it is a problem in their country of not enough men.

The laws have been changed by the females in congress and at the state legislature level to attack men by attempting to re-distribute wealth from us to the women, and they call it "child support". No it isn't it is actually "child alimony" because there is no accountability on if they are spending it on the kids.

The ratio in China is too many men. Not enough women. But the quality of the men can't compare to a western man if that's what the girl has set her sights on.

The term "baby daddy". These girls don't want or care to get married. But they do want to get pregnant and get that "child alimony".

[Mike7794]

You said a lot, and it is all great advice. I only chose to quote the sentence that sums it all up for purposes of emphasizing it.

You're not much older than me, and it dawned on me today how much information (like what gets discussed here) is available to the next generation. The 24 year old today that was posting could be my son, yet he is able to benefit from insider knowledge that simply was not available to me when I was his age.

Heed the advice folks -- don't get married if you already aren't. If you already are married, play in the bowl but do so carefully. If you let the addiction control you, it's only a matter of time before "careful" gives way to temptation.

For those that actually do like the benefits of a long-term relationship when a reasonable prospect is found, I recommend the plan I'm on which is to dabble in the bowl sporadically but don't let it get in the way of the relationship. That takes a tremendous amount of control and self-discipline (something I didn't have when I was younger. Let's hope it holds out).

Random thought outlet time: On TV as I write this is Courtney Love being interviewed on Letterman. Cobain is lucky he's dead, because I bet if he saw her today he would puke at the thought he ever got her pregnant.

If I can expand a bit.

You're right about this knowledge we're passing on to the younger generation was not available to me also. Case in point when I was in the "I want to try marriage mode" the lightbulb came on for me when the last American woman I dated was in 2007 and '08. Only upon breakup with this last one is when her ex husband told me she was a diagnosed bi-polar, and asked me "did she tell you? That was it for me and I swore off American women. I always thought about bagging a foreign girl from Russia, Ukraine, South America, or Asia. After that split I set out on a romance tour with a company to Kiev, Ukraine. I could tell stories of the time there, but suffice it to say that although I had a great time (I went there twice within a few months) they were still too much like our American women here on the gold digging. On a side note I've never been in a city where there were so many 10's, 12's, and 14's. I am not kidding. The sheer numbers of stunningly beautiful women there was off the charts. I then set out for China where I ended up spending most of my time. I like spinners and there's nothing like being in a country of 2 billion people. If I remember correctly for every 100 men there were something like 105 or 106 women. Don't quote me on that, but I do know it is a problem in their country of not enough men. There is a reason for that, but I won't go into now, but I must say with that ratio you're talking about at least a billion women, and most are spinners. They too had an unbelievable number of beautiful women, but just because of the sheer numbers made it glorious. Jeez you talk about addictions. Spending time in China banging those women can be addicting, and I was feeling like I was addicted. In fact to this day I still think about going back again, and currently I'm talking to about 4 of them now.

I will say this to the men about dealing with our women here. Sadly to say that the light bulb doesn't go on until they hit about 40 years old of considering looking outside of the country for marriage. A guy in his 20's and 30's would have unbelievable success in China. Hell I was in my late 40's and was treated like a rock star in some cities. Example Changsha China I flew down with about 4 guys from Beijing. My buddy started a online dating site and I volunteered for his first M & G in Beijing. Well one of them was in Changsha about two hour plane ride south. People there are not used to seeing western people there and you get a lot of long looks of curiosity. There are two large universities there, and I can tell you, walking down the street you have almost every damn coed staring at you, and a lot of them are eye fucking you. A western man in 2008 were rock stars. Maybe still are. I don't know. An absolute rock star. I thought if this is the life rock stars lead I am most envious. An endless amount of beautiful spinner coed. It was spinner heaven. The thing is that the Chinese women there are so approachable. They are naturally attracted to western men, and most of them don't have age as a high priority. I was hooked and still am to a certain extent. Recently signing up on SA I've started to dabble with the western girls. I do notice a difference though, and I don't take any of their shit to a certain extent. I have become less tolerant for ignorance and selfishness. I'm probably a bit spoiled by the foreign women.

I cannot emphasize enough to the younger guys that today's American women are not the same and haven't been for a few decades at least. The laws have been changed by the females in congress and at the state legislature level to attack men by attempting to re-distribute wealth from us to the women, and they call it "child support". No it isn't it is actually "child alimony" because there is no accountability on if they are spending it on the kids. Young guys run like hell if a girl won't marry you without the state being involved. Don't fall for the shit that they will say. Stay firm and focused. The typical thing the American woman will say is "if you really loved me why should it matter? Your comback is "if you really love ME then why should we need the state to bless our union if this is forever?

[Mike7794]

Have to do it without the SO knowing. I understand that it is a short procedure but afterward can I drive myself home? If I have to take a cab home then some precise scheduling may be required. After SO leaves home I come back and leave the car at home, take a cab to the place of surgery and return home the same way. I think I should be able to tell SO that I am not well and will stay home from work the next day.

How long is the typical time for recovery? Is it advisable to go back and get a sperm count to be sure or is a home test reliable?

I would appreciate any advice / information.

Yes you can drive yourself home. The doctor might insist you bring a driver with you like they did with me, but I do recall that I could have driven myself. You'll experience some tenderness for up to a year, but it doesn't affect your sex performance. They gave me a 30 day supply of Percocets, but I only took one to two, and that was it. I probably only really needed one, and that was the first day home.

Regarding recovery everyone's different, but you should be good the next day if you must. If you can stay home the next day, then I'd do it. They give you a bottle to take with you. They require you to take a sample after a certain amount of time passed to make sure you're not still shooting bullets.

[JZLizard]

Keep control of your life.

You said a lot, and it is all great advice. I only chose to quote the sentence that sums it all up for purposes of emphasizing it.

You're not much older than me, and it dawned on me today how much information (like what gets discussed here) is available to the next generation. The 24 year old today that was posting could be my son, yet he is able to benefit from insider knowledge that simply was not available to me when I was his age.

Heed the advice folks -- don't get married if you already aren't. If you already are married, play in the bowl but do so carefully. If you let the addiction control you, it's only a matter of time before "careful" gives way to temptation.

For those that actually do like the benefits of a long-term relationship when a reasonable prospect is found, I recommend the plan I'm on which is to dabble in the bowl sporadically but don't let it get in the way of the relationship. That takes a tremendous amount of control and self-discipline (something I didn't have when I was younger. Let's hope it holds out).

Random thought outlet time: On TV as I write this is Courtney Love being interviewed on Letterman. Cobain is lucky he's dead, because I bet if he saw her today he would puke at the thought he ever got her pregnant.

[Mike7794]

I think it's normal for a male to feel unrewarded (or at least not to satisfaction) for busting our asses day in and day out. Society has changed such that it's tough-going being a male. There has been much written about how women are finding it harder and harder to find someone who is even interested in marriage. Being married has so many disadvantages to men these days that some are wising up at a young age and just opting for the bachelor life permanently.

I'm somewhat in that category. Marriage is a BTDT thing with me and I won't return to it. Not long ago I was shuffling around some retirement account money, reading all the form fine print about the rights of "my spouse" (if I had one) to that money. Same goes with real estate equity. FUCK THAT! The laws have made marriage too unattractive.

However, it's one of things that if you're already in it, and you want out, best plan the escape route very carefully.

But as far as working on a relationship, yes of course it is work. Anything in life that is worthwhile is work.

I find searching for SBs to be a fuckload of work. I feel like a damn HR department in a temp staffing agency when I do it. It's not much different except the payoff is blowing our load rather than getting a commission check.

Civy dating itself is a lot of work too, whether you're a player or struggling to get laid. Lots and lots of work.

Escorts are easy. Aside from that, the payoff is a factor of the amount of effort we put into it.

Overall, my relationship is more rewarding that my SB antics, just in a much different way. The payoff is less intense, but longer lasting. Well I still get the short intense payoffs too...lol... they just aren't as fun with the same girl night after night. The long-term pay off is not sitting at home alone wishing my dick still worked at age 75 or whatever. At least if things continue I have a chance of having a partner that I actually enjoy spending non-sexual time with. I've always preferred that to being alone.

Sorry man. I'm not stalking you or anything. You are just hitting on some issues that are in my wheel house at the moment.

For you young guys that have not been married yet. Do not get married. Once you do, and you sign that marriage document you have just signed away control of your own life. Your wife owns you now. She could literally do what the hell she wants, and you technically can't do a damn thing, because if you divorce she will get AT LEAST half of the assets of what you both have acquired, and if you draw a man hating lesbian judge she can fuck you for more if her state gives her unlimited discretion. In my state domestic judges have discretion to go outside the law to make decisions, and most of the judges in domestic court here are female. Probably 90% conservatively. There is a judge in my county that stuck some guy with "Unlimited Alimony". Unlimited. Long story short. Family court these days are designed as a re-distribution of wealth of men to women. The American women know this. It is my belief that most don't have a clue of love and commitment. They get in it for the security and the control they know they have in the system. They talk and keep themselves up to date on the laws. When it is time for reelection of a family judge you can bet they talk about who are "woman friendly". I could write a book, but I'll stop here. Bottom line is do not get married. Find a girl (if you desire to get married) that will marry you without the state involved. Try that. It is the ultimate test. If they balk, then you know you have a system girl that is out to control you and your assets. They can suck and fuck you like not other, and many men fall for this, and their brains turn to mush. Fatal. You must keep your thinking straight.

I had two kids, but never married the mother, as I find out how much of a crazy ***** she was, and what she was out for. I've been getting screwed in court the last ten years.

I finally got married to a lovely young (20 years younger) Chinese girl I brought over from China. I was 50 when I got married the first time. Wanted to see if it was for me. What I found out within the first year was that I was right all those years when I was single and had many girlfriends. Luckily she agreed to a dissolution, and I got out of it unscathed. She could have opted for the divorce, which would have been a bit dicier. We were only married 2 1/2 years. We are still friends, she lives in my house, and the sex has never been better. She's looking for a husband to have a child with, as I would not have another one, after what I've been experiencing in domestic court. Since last July I've been having my cake and eating it too. She knows I'm in the bowl now and understands it, but she loves our sex so much she doesn't care. I have even talked to her about being her sugar daddy when she gets married, and she is all in for it. I couldn't believe it actually. The sex is top notch and her young snatch is prime shit. The best tasting shit I've had, and I've had my share after 54 years.

Back to the laws today. The gender discrimination is at an all time high in family court. In my state the judge positions are dominated by women. All seven judges in my appeals court are female, 4 out of the 7 judges in the state supreme court are women, and then my local court judge is female, and all of her magistrates are female. They are ruled by emotion not the law, constitution, and logic. Run like hell away from marrying and fathering an American girl's baby. Your life will not be your own. That is the state of today for us men. Keep control of your life.

Lastly, whatever you do during your elections at any level is quit voting for females as judges and politicians. They are creating mightily to the downfall in this country. It is too much power for too many females, and it ends up fucking us in the end.

[IluvSmellyFish]

"Why on earth would I spend money to bang a girl that isn't as attractive as what I could get for "free" Fish.

V. A. R. I. E. T. Y But if you as satisfied with your SO as that you might seriously reconsider the fleeting excitement of an SB vs Potentially losing your SO, reputation, money...

It appears my last post was confusing. FM, you and I arrive at the same conclusion. I play in the bowl even though I am happy with my SO, because the girls in the bowl are not my SO. In other words, I need the variety. I should have been more clear in my last post.

Even though I love steak, the thought of eating it for every meal, every day is depressing.

Like JeezLizard, the payoff that my relationship with my SO provides is very different than the payoff I get with an SB. My SO keeps me intellectually stimulated, will care for me when I'm sick, etc. On the other hand, I don't get as excited in the bedroom with her as I do with a 19 year old blonde who tells me that she wants me to teach her how to have an*l sex and wants me to take her an*l virginity. I also cringe to think of what my day to day life would be like if I was in a long term relationship with every baby I've met so far. Oddly enough, the bowl has made me value my SO more, because of the snapshot it gives me of dating young girls (albeit a warped sense since it takes a particular sort of girl to sign up for a SA profile).

I do agree though that the pitfalls of marriage are many, and make one want to avoid it. I count myself lucky to have an SO that I truly connect with. In that way I am incredibly selfish since I want my life with my SO, and I want the variety of banging a young 19/20 something until that honeymoon period ends, until the sex isn't exciting anymore. That's the beauty of the bowl though, no?

The expectations are really set up front. Money, power, experience and / or privilege for physical intimacy and companionship, until you get bored, or until she finds someone with more of what gets her wet.

Just my two cents.

And BTW, I also agree that the excitement one gets from the bowl is fleeting. But when that feeling goes, it comes back when that next new 19/20 something is trying on the fishnet thigh highs you just bought for her, while bending over to gshow you just how wet she really is.

HWG was right, you might check out, but you never leave. The risks are great, but the rewards are just too sweet.

[Hsrams]

You can go directly to the old site by going to this web address:

https://ww2.seekingarrangement.com

How do I get the old view? Thought I saw it on here and searched the first 15 pages but cannot find it. Thanks brothers.

BTW. When I had my vasectomy the Doctor gave me a kick ass happy pill. When I asked about pain he said "very little pain but guys don't mentally like the thought of activity in that area so the objective is to get you to not have a care in the world". And I did not have a care when he was working away!! I was pretty sore for about a week and incision was noticable. This was 15 years ago.

[Graham111]

How do I get the old view? Thought I saw it on here and searched the first 15 pages but cannot find it. Thanks brothers.

BTW. When I had my vasectomy the Doctor gave me a kick ass happy pill. When I asked about pain he said "very little pain but guys don't mentally like the thought of activity in that area so the objective is to get you to not have a care in the world". And I did not have a care when he was working away!! I was pretty sore for about a week and incision was noticable. This was 15 years ago.

[Member #5055]

My wife said: "the factory is closed," so I'm here.

I was told that they broke the mold after they made me, but I want to make sure of it.

My wife said: "It's your turn now. ".

After this, I won't ever have to say I'm sorry again.

I'm married! Condoms are sooo high school!

Have you seen the movie 'One Fine Day?' That's why I'm here!

Every time I look at my wife, she gets pregnant.

Apparently, sacrificing some limbs just isn't the same.

She told me: "Enough, get your wings clipped already!

I was told that I can shoot the gun all I want and no one will get hit.

I heard that it's easier than getting your teeth pulled out.

My wife told me that it's time for juice without seeds.

[Member #5055]

Agreed, good breakdown point -- book on a day the warden cannot come; and take a drinking buddy with you instead!

Fathering a child who will in a few years kick you in the nuts for not buying them a video game they wanted could be prevented with a vasectomy. LOL.

Joking aside, even if such a condition exists, there's a risk depending on who goes with you to the surgery. Often, surgeons come out and discuss how things went with your family members and ask them if they have any questions, while the nurses are cleaning you up for the ride home. You'd have to pay a drinking buddy you trust or something to go with you.

[JZLizard]

There is one solution, but you will have to be a really good actor.
Pretend to have sensative balls for a few weeks -- complain that they are hurting. She will suggest you go see a doctor. Assuming she does not come and hold your hand -- you go to regular doctor and tell him you need a VAS.
He refers you to Urology specialists -- you tell the wife you are being refered, and they recomend a vasectomy.
You have it all done under insurance with the wife's support and help!!
Now -- to a doctor out there -- give us the name of a condition that might cause testicular pain etc. That can be fixed with a Vasectomy!

Fathering a child who will in a few years kick you in the nuts for not buying them a video game they wanted could be prevented with a vasectomy. LOL.

Joking aside, even if such a condition exists, there's a risk depending on who goes with you to the surgery. Often, surgeons come out and discuss how things went with your family members and ask them if they have any questions, while the nurses are cleaning you up for the ride home. You'd have to pay a drinking buddy you trust or something to go with you.

[FredMoore]

There is one solution, but you will have to be a really good actor.


You have it all done under insurance with the wife's support and help!!

Now -- give us the name of a condition that might cause testicular pain etc. That can be fixed with a Vasectomy!

Child support payments!

[Member #5055]

There is one solution, but you will have to be a really good actor.

Pretend to have sensative balls for a few weeks -- complain that they are hurting. She will suggest you go see a doctor. Assuming she does not come and hold your hand -- you go to regular doctor and tell him you need a VAS.

He refers you to Urology specialists -- you tell the wife you are being refered, and they recomend a vasectomy.

You have it all done under insurance with the wife's support and help!!

Now -- to a doctor out there -- give us the name of a condition that might cause testicular pain etc. That can be fixed with a Vasectomy!

There are so many things wrong with this plan. JL is correct and most medical facilities require a companion to be present and drive you home. Here are some??s that you need to answer to yourself. What if you have a complication? Do you want the option of having children when you get divorced and reup with another Babe who wants Kids? Can you explain the shave that is required? Does your SO see you naked a lot so could you easily hide the swelling and the incision? Could you sit on an ice pack for a day or two without her wondering what's wrong? Is your Insurance paperwork seen by the SO? All Insurance Companies send an EOB after paying for services. That is an explanation of benefits stating what they paid to the various providers.

If you can answer satisfactorily all of these? S and can hide from your SO for a week you might get away with it. A sperm count will be done at least once a few months later and if not clear again another month or two.

[JZLizard]

There are so many things wrong with this plan. JL is correct and most medical facilities require a companion to be present and drive you home. Here are some??s that you need to answer to yourself. What if you have a complication? Do you want the option of having children when you get divorced and reup with another Babe who wants Kids? Can you explain the shave that is required? Does your SO see you naked a lot so could you easily hide the swelling and the incision? Could you sit on an ice pack for a day or two without her wondering what's wrong? Is your Insurance paperwork seen by the SO? All Insurance Companies send an EOB after paying for services. That is an explanation of benefits stating what they paid to the various providers.

If you can answer satisfactorily all of these? S and can hide from your SO for a week you might get away with it. A sperm count will be done at least once a few months later and if not clear again another month or two.

There was one more that I thought about, but I didn't even want to go there or ask about the circumstances. In some states, if a person opts into sterilization after marriage without informing their spouse, they may be at some sort of legal hot water if the spouse found out depending on the situation. I vaguely remember hearing about a case like this, although I can't remember the state or whether it involved religion or not. The issue was around hiding the sterilization from the spouse or lying about it, not the sterilization itself.

It sounds kind of out there I know but divorce court can get weird.

[JZLizard]

Okay Hollywood. After so many encounters with BP girls, wasted time, wasted money, fleeting moments of joy and sustained experiences of empty wallet. I'm shifting gears over to the SD / SB approach. I'm 24 - I know this isn't going to do much in my favor, but I've started up an SA account, paid premium and sent out your prob to 10 so far. Reports coming. Any advice. From anybody, please send my way. I've been studying the forum, but any information you may want to add or give me due to my age circumstances, please shoot them my way! Hoping to give you guys good news soon.

At age 24 you really should be working on developing your game at bars and regular dating sites. 24 is right about the perfect age for that, and it can be frustrating at time but the end result is much cheaper pussy. Take advantage of your current spot in nature and go after girls your age! Remember that failure is NORMAL in the civy dating world, and the failure is what helps you learn and get better. Then one day you'll realize your craft has been perfected and the challenge is gone and you'll miss the days you used to fail.

That whole experience is a part of my life I wish I could get back. It is infinitely more fun than just fucking girls in the bowl. If you've wasted time and money on BP girls all for fleeting moments of joy, you're going to be equally disappointed with the bowl because the enjoyment is still fleeting (only there's a lot more legwork required to get there), and if you don't have the income to support the hobby it's a fucking death wish! (I just mention that because you said empty wallet. If you don't have the income to be an SD you shouldn't even be thinking about it at this point).

Seriously, do not miss out on taking advantage of your age. If you do it right and exert some effort you still have a good 10 years at least of bar hopping and online hookups to enjoy, and tons of free pussy.

Also, when you do arrive at SD age, the game you developed above will benefit you tremendously as an SD. The SBs half your age will give you the fucks of your life hoping they've found their long-term prince charming that will set them up with an easy life. They can easily sense all the experience with women you developed when younger and they respect it and find it tremendously attractive. They won't even ask how much you can afford, they will just drop their panties and hope for the best.