"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[HollywoodGuy]

There is not one 20 something yr old who would go on a date with a 60 yr old without money involved.

I agree with this 99% of the time. But I currently have one that refuses to take my money and she is actually the horniest one that I have the longest sessions with. Is she the best looking? No. But she is 21 and a freak. I can do almost anything with her, and she is actually pushing my limits.

[JZLizard]

Another thing to point out is that sometimes indifference to whether we are married or not is observed in civy dating, too. There are some women that have recurring patterns of dating married men. The theory is that they are attracted to something they can't have, or maybe there is something inside them that makes them competitive enough to see if they can steal another woman's man?

I once was talking to a stripper about what a PITA someone I was dating at the time was. She said "listen, I can tell you because I'm a woman -- we are evil creatures". She then proceeded to tell me a story about how once she had a married regular customer that would always come in and buy lap dances. She said she didn't really like him at all, but she decided to play a game and see if she could lure him away from his wife and family. So over a period of weeks / months she started dating him, convinced him to leave his wife for her, etc. Then after he did, she just dumped him. I said why would you intentionally screw up someone's life like that? She said "just to see if I could, it was a competitive thing. I told you, we're evil!"

So, there's that.

SBs and UTRs are just women at the end of the day, there are some that are "evil" like the above example, or some that view marriage as something not particularly important in the big scheme of things one way or another (that vows were made for breaking), and there will be some who think that marriage is the only thing sacred in life and that anyone who cheats is slime. In general, girls you meet on SB sites are going to be a lot more tolerant of it than anywhere other than the escort scene, because of the wide spectrum of girl types you meet there. Why? Mostly because the majority of SDs are married, so if they've been on the site more than a day or so they've already dealt with the subject in their mind.

[Beachesnole02]

My experience has been the polar opposite from JL. I make it clear up front that I am married (actually it is in my profile) and I have only had 1 Pot I hit on who said she was disgusted by a guy who would cheat on his wife (but she is fine taking money for sex LOL) We each have a moral line to draw.
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My profile is down right now, but I also made it clear that I was married, and even put in my post I did not care if they were married. As I have mentioned before, of the 15 or so I have seen this year, only 2 have not been married or engaged, so my status was a bonus for them. Only 1 decided not to go to FC because I was married. Of the ones that were really UTR's, they were the 2 single girls. The married ones have all been quasi exclusive on the extra curricular activites...meaning they are fucking me and their spouse.

[JZLizard]

My experience has been the polar opposite from JL. I make it clear up front that I am married (actually it is in my profile) and I have only had 1 Pot I hit on who said she was disgusted by a guy who would cheat on his wife (but she is fine taking money for sex LOL) We each have a moral line to draw.

All the other hundreds of my contacts have not been bothered by marriage. Some I asked opined that they like a married man because they do not want the complications of an IRL relationship. They want help with finances. And married guys require discretion as well. Most 22 yr old girls don't want to flash around a 60 yr old guy in public anyway.

If you are a younger SD, I would say under 40 ,SBs might look at you as a potential IRL partner. IMHO this is why a guy like JL can have so much success in the dating arena. There is not one 20 something yr old who would go on a date with a 60 yr old without money involved. My partners are blown away by the sex they have with me LOL. But that doesn't mean they'll see me for nothing or take me home to Momma.

Actually I'm not under 40. LOL. But I understand what you're saying. There will be a time when for whatever reason I'm older than most 20 year olds would be comfortable dating in public and at that point my options will be different than they are today. Actually I've met 20 year olds in the past who confused me for being younger, and got freaked out when they learned my age (that was in civy dating though, haven't got that reaction from an SB yet).

But your experience with those not bothered by marriage really mixes well with what I wrote. The ones that are strictly money motivated tend to be more on the UTR side, thus unconcerned whether you're married or not. They may even make up the majority of the girls on these SB sites. As I've written before, sometimes the line between a UTR and a true SB is not black and white. There are just certain traits that we can use to categorize them (if it walks like a duck, etc).

[JZLizard]

JeezLizard,

Following on from that excellent post, would you like to follow on with a sequel on the converse situation?

That is, what percentage of SB are actually partnered? For it seems to me quite likely that since many SB are attractive and fun to be with, it is likely that they have had plenty of guys hitting on them by the age of 18, and that some surely would have a steady or husband.

If so, that might explain "flakey" behaviour in some of them as they are trying to juggle marital obligations with extracting $$ from us.

Most of the SBs I've known are hot enough that they have a constant supply of men of all ages hitting on them wherever they go. Facebook allows us a lot of insight into people's lives these days, and using that as a research tool has helped me to observe. In terms of married SBs, based on the ones I've met I think they are definitely the minority, although I have definitely seen them -- I've even seen some indicate such in their profile. As far as having boyfriends, etc. I would say the majority of them have something else going on whether it is a boyfriend, prospective boyfriend with a relationship forming, a fiancé, etc. One of mine still lived with her "ex boyfriend", and told me she still loved him but that he "hated her and was only nice when he wanted sex", so she was still fucking him intermittently. Another one told me that she prefers dating older men but if she is not in an SD situation she has "other male friends" that help with her sexual needs. I know of one of my former SBs that I do believe was legitimately single when I saw her, and her FB page today indicates she is in a serious relationship with a guy close to her age and as far as I know she's out of the SB scene currently.

So basically I don't think there's a formula. Women are women, but in SB dating I think there's a high probability she's got something else going on the side, whether financial or emotionally motivated. Usually SD / SB arrangements are prefaced as "NSA" agreements, and most women want to have some strings attached to someone at all times, so they see NSA as a license to have other activities just as the SD does.

[FredMoore]

JeezLizard,

Following on from that excellent post, would you like to follow on with a sequel on the converse situation?

That is, what percentage of SB are actually partnered? For it seems to me quite likely that since many SB are attractive and fun to be with, it is likely that they have had plenty of guys hitting on them by the age of 18, and that some surely would have a steady or husband.

If so, that might explain "flakey" behaviour in some of them as they are trying to juggle marital obligations with extracting $$ from us.

Few of my SBs seem to have BFs. I know that is an unknown, but most are busy with life, work or school, and are happy getting their rocks off with Daddy and don't really have time for an IRL relationship, which takes nurturing. Obviously UTRs and PROs are an exception.

[FredMoore]

My experience has been the polar opposite from JL. I make it clear up front that I am married (actually it is in my profile) and I have only had 1 Pot I hit on who said she was disgusted by a guy who would cheat on his wife (but she is fine taking money for sex LOL) We each have a moral line to draw.

All the other hundreds of my contacts have not been bothered by marriage. Some I asked opined that they like a married man because they do not want the complications of an IRL relationship. They want help with finances. And married guys require discretion as well. Most 22 yr old girls don't want to flash around a 60 yr old guy in public anyway.

If you are a younger SD, I would say under 40 ,SBs might look at you as a potential IRL partner. IMHO this is why a guy like JL can have so much success in the dating arena. There is not one 20 something yr old who would go on a date with a 60 yr old without money involved. My partners are blown away by the sex they have with me LOL. But that doesn't mean they'll see me for nothing or take me home to Momma.

[RubberyMan]

JeezLizard,

Following on from that excellent post, would you like to follow on with a sequel on the converse situation?

That is, what percentage of SB are actually partnered? For it seems to me quite likely that since many SB are attractive and fun to be with, it is likely that they have had plenty of guys hitting on them by the age of 18, and that some surely would have a steady or husband.

If so, that might explain "flakey" behaviour in some of them as they are trying to juggle marital obligations with extracting $$ from us.

[JZLizard]

I guess this is enough. I forget how many guys are married here.

They say 90%+ SDs are married, and being married changes everything about how an SD plays the game. A typical SB would put priority on a bachelor SD over a married one, because in her mind it is an opportunity to get more for herself. If he's married, there will always be constraints on his time and expenditure. For the SBs looking for more than money, and in search of a "very supportive boyfriend", I think they try to avoid married men when possible (not withstanding a financial crisis they may have from time to time which forces them to be flexible), simply because they see the situation from a territorial standpoint ("if he has to take care of her that means less for me" The more they lean toward the UTR state of mind, the less likely they are to care about whether he is married or not. Think about it, an escort would actually prefer he is married, it means he will have somewhere to go after the money shot instead of hanging around and getting in the way of her next appointment.

Understanding this whole dynamic can be used to your advantage once you know how to read them. You can use discretion as a tool even when you don't really need it. When I am in another city, I don't have to worry about it because I'm not going to get caught by my GF or her friends one way or another. But even then, I sometimes use dialog to figure out what kind of girl I'm dealing with. I'll give an example:

Me: The thing is, I need total discretion for career reasons, can we meet at a hotel that will let me check in anonymously?

Typical UTR girl response:

(a) That's not a problem, I need discretion too.

(b) Oh don't worry, secrecy is my specialty!

(c) Don't worry baby you can come to my place and I'll take care of you!

Typical Real SB response:

(a) OMG are you married?! Your profile said you weren't! WTF!

(b) That's not what I was looking for actually, this is just like any other form of dating for me.

(c) I'm okay with a certain amount of discretion but this makes me wonder what you're hiding and I'm not comfortable with that.

This is not to say that SB's don't fuck married men, they do. But their approach is different and you can kind of detect it in initial interaction with them if you work the dialog right.

But, if you look at statistics I think true bachelor SDs are in the minority, so I would definitely use that to your advantage. Me, I'm in the middle. I become a free-wheeling bachelor only when the planets line up, but when I do then look out. LOL. But ultimately I'm not REALLY available the way the true SBs I've met would like me to be. It's just one of those things in life. If I were really available, I'd probably be focusing on looking for someone who is not a self-admitted gold-digger, something no SB can deny. So I typically steer clear of SB sites when I'm single and just focus on free pussy. Yet, if I were really filthy rich, I would probably come to the conclusion that a real relationship isn't possible and just bang everything I could get my hands on. Hugh Hefner comes to mind, although it seems to me he is still under the delusion that these young broads would love him if he was penniless. I think I'd rather have a boner with no where to go than be as out of touch with reality as that at his age.

[HollywoodGuy]

Sorry if I am over posting. The girl from last night just txted me. So we are still cool. She just slept all day. Too bad for both of us. Anyway I wrote this in my down time today. Edit as needed. It's for all you guys that like a challenge.

"I've met a few girls like you before. Meaning they initially come on this site with a prince charming or knight in shining armour fantasy, and hoping to meet some guy that's going to sweep them off their feet and spend tens of thousands of dollars.

Does that ever happen? I'm sure it does here and there.

Then the next big issue is can you even trust most of these guys. Many of them are married or cheating on their girlfriend. Kinda hard to trust someone that's already being unfaithful.

Lets face it, if you could just meet a single, chill, sweet, real guy, that's good to you and good in bed, and doesn't mind spending a reasonable amount of money everytime they see you. Wouldn't that be a step up from where you are now?

But you have to take the first step. I will if you will".

I am gonna try this out on some of these reluctant MILFS. Anyone else that tries it please report back.

I guess this is enough. I forget how many guys are married here.

"I've met a few girls like you before. Meaning they initially come on this site with a prince charming or knight in shining armour fantasy, and hoping to meet some guy that's going to sweep them off their feet and spend tens of thousands of dollars.

Does that ever happen? I'm sure it does here and there.

Lets face it, if you could just meet a single, chill, sweet, real guy, that's good to you and good in bed, and doesn't mind spending a reasonable amount of money everytime they see you. Wouldn't that be a step up from where you are now?

Reading this again now, it is pretty direct.. But for the girls that can appreciate that, you will strike a chord.

[HollywoodGuy]

Sorry if I am over posting. The girl from last night just txted me. So we are still cool. She just slept all day. Too bad for both of us. Anyway I wrote this in my down time today. Edit as needed. It's for all you guys that like a challenge.

"I've met a few girls like you before. Meaning they initially come on this site with a prince charming or knight in shining armour fantasy, and hoping to meet some guy that's going to sweep them off their feet and spend tens of thousands of dollars.

Does that ever happen? I'm sure it does here and there.

Then the next big issue is can you even trust most of these guys. Many of them are married or cheating on their girlfriend. Kinda hard to trust someone that's already being unfaithful.

Lets face it, if you could just meet a single, chill, sweet, real guy, that's good to you and good in bed, and doesn't mind spending a reasonable amount of money everytime they see you. Wouldn't that be a step up from where you are now?

But you have to take the first step. I will if you will".

I am gonna try this out on some of these reluctant MILFS. Anyone else that tries it please report back.

[HollywoodGuy]

None. I think the girl from yesterday got sellers remorse. Thats one of the down sides to paying $. They wake up the next day and say OMG I did what for how much? Not that paying them more would have motivated them to do a better job. Just my opinion.

[HollywoodGuy]

Went out to meet this pretty 23 year old (about 5'8"), utr girl tonite. She was way cuter than her pics. Went straight to her FC. She does work full time and go to school, but a girls got to do what a girls got to do to make it in this city.

She was a good kisser, super friendly and we went at it for about 90 minutes before she realized how long I had been there and tossed me out. LOL. She had a cute little single that was clean and it worked out fine.

I give her a 8.5/9/9/9. Perfect little B cups and smooth skin. I might see her tomorrow. After 2 failed M&G's the odds were on my side. A hot (low volume?) UTR for a $. Works for me everytime.

Part 2 to the story. I originally hit her up with my lets party for a $ intro letter which she turned down. But I was so into her pics that about a month later I sent her my what are you looking for thoughtful letter with no mention of money and she responded. She never tried to ask for more and in the end she took the $. So I apologized for the low offer but promised I would make it up to her by seeing her once a week and also by trying to get to know her. And the truth is, that in her case, I will for now. I liked her.

[JZLizard]

Outside the bowl the girls can be far riskier than inside. Forgetting escorts or utr's. SB's are looking for guys selectively as well. I have seen civi girls bang anyone that buys them enough drinks or other party favors.

True. When I was getting most of my poon from bars and clubs, often I had beer goggles on when I made judgment calls. I have no doubt some of the girls I banged led promiscuous lifestyles, but somehow I survived. It may sound arrogant or like BS, but when I'm vetting SBs, of the girls who have profiles I'm probably only interested in contacting 5-10% in a given city. After I weed out the dubious ones, the ones that have an attitude problem, the ones I get a bad vibe about, or the ones I just decide I'm not attracted to, in the second round of vetting I'm left with maybe pursuing less than 5% of those who survived the first round of cuts. That's not to say all these ladies are lined up for a date with me by any means, sometimes the ones I want most flake for various reasons, but it just means that using my keenest (and most sober) judgment I put a lot of thought into which of them I'm willing to spend my time and money on, mostly because my SB season limits my time.

With club hopping I was never that cautious. It's more like is she hot? Check. Is she willing? Check. Is it closing time and I still haven't hooked up yet? Check. Ok its on then. I will say I don't think I inadvertently banged any hardcore druggies or pros, at least all the girls seemed to have valid alibis (I. E. Were a student, or had a real job, etc). But that doesn't mean they didn't have secrets I didn't know about. I did have one once that was a recovered drug addict, but her demeanor was such that I would have never known if she didn't tell me, which just goes to show I may have misidentified a few.

[HollywoodGuy]

I'm similar in that I go BB, have never had an STD, and it's also one reason I avoid high risk girls. It's not that I've never used a condom, I have, it's just that condoms represent probably 1% of my sexual history (just because I hate them). My basic strategy for disease avoidance is to be picky and select low-volume, drug free girls. How can I be sure they are low-volume and drug free? I can never be 100% sure, and I have no doubt that some of my unprotected one-night stand girls probably lost count of their sex partners. Drinking and going to bars probably put me at higher risk than SD sites, because I spend a great deal of time picking and choosing the right girl when I'm looking for an SB. I do take good care of myself with regard to exercise and diet so maybe I have a good immune system, or I'm just plain lucky. I would never bang a working girl bareback, and as far as SBs if I even suspect she is UTR sex worker, there won't even be a M&G. This is why I pay a lot of attention to the priority they place on money, or whether they are looking for more than just financial support.

However, even outside the bowl, I know for a fact some of the girls I've been with sleep around. It's just a risk of the game.

Outside the bowl the girls can be far riskier than inside. Forgetting escorts or utr's. SB's are looking for guys selectively as well. I have seen civi girls bang anyone that buys them enough drinks or other party favors.