"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[FredMoore]

My apologies, the group I am referring to is a Google Group, not Yahoo.

[FredMoore]

If a Yahoo group is created. And trust me on the following piece of advice as I do have some inside insight here. Please be very sure you are committed to making absolutely NOTHING even remotely pertaining to sex for money is posted.

It's right there in the TOS "intentionally or unintentionally violate any applicable local, state, national or international law, including, but not limited to, regulations promulgated by the USA Securities and Exchange Commission, any rules of any national or other securities exchange, including, without limitation, the New York Stock Exchange, the American Stock Exchange, or the NASDAQ, and any regulations having the force of law;.

Unlike a forum like this who operates in a way that has incentive to provide their users anonymity, Yahoo has incentive to detect dubious activity on their servers and proactively bring LE attention to it.

It won't matter that it's a private forum. Being a true SD is not illegal, just make sure you don't discuss anything that is on that medium. It's easy to get caught up in the similarities between sugarbabies and pros and discuss them in a way that's risky from a LE perspective.

I have been a member of a private forum like this for years on a national basis. The talk is detailed and down and dirty with no issues. Keep in mind a private Email account is not a forum open to the general public and possibly random age inappropriate log ons, and is protected by privacy laws. The talk is informational and not to promote any particular individual or activity. In general it is wise not to discuss sex and money in the same setting anyway .

[BamBam]

I know some guys on the board have told their SB what is being said about them. I had an irritating experience with an SB a while ago and made a public complaint. Some "friend" or other SD told her and she confronted me. My complaint was valid but her circumstances were extenuating. It was very awkward but we got past it and had a great run together. Keep the info to facts and no one can complain. In Escort terms YMMV.

I would be interested to know 1) is she seeing other SDs? 2) Is she a Pro? 3) any drama like flaking?

Does someone have the tech savvy to set up a Yahoo account with multiple users by invitation only?

I am convinced one or more of the guys on the site would eventually spill to one or more of the SB's resulting in all kinds of hell until it settled down.

RB.

[JZLizard]

I agree with you and the three areas of interest. Yahoo group is great idea.

If a Yahoo group is created. And trust me on the following piece of advice as I do have some inside insight here. Please be very sure you are committed to making absolutely NOTHING even remotely pertaining to sex for money is posted.

It's right there in the TOS "intentionally or unintentionally violate any applicable local, state, national or international law, including, but not limited to, regulations promulgated by the USA Securities and Exchange Commission, any rules of any national or other securities exchange, including, without limitation, the New York Stock Exchange, the American Stock Exchange, or the NASDAQ, and any regulations having the force of law;.

Unlike a forum like this who operates in a way that has incentive to provide their users anonymity, Yahoo has incentive to detect dubious activity on their servers and proactively bring LE attention to it.

It won't matter that it's a private forum. Being a true SD is not illegal, just make sure you don't discuss anything that is on that medium. It's easy to get caught up in the similarities between sugarbabies and pros and discuss them in a way that's risky from a LE perspective.

[GeorgeRichmond]

I know some guys on the board have told their SB what is being said about them. I had an irritating experience with an SB a while ago and made a public complaint. Some "friend" or other SD told her and she confronted me. My complaint was valid but her circumstances were extenuating. It was very awkward but we got past it and had a great run together. Keep the info to facts and no one can complain. In Escort terms YMMV.

I would be interested to know 1) is she seeing other SDs? 2) Is she a Pro? 3) any drama like flaking?

Does someone have the tech savvy to set up a Yahoo account with multiple users by invitation only?

I agree with you and the three areas of interest. Yahoo group is great idea.

[FredMoore]

I know some guys on the board have told their SB what is being said about them. I had an irritating experience with an SB a while ago and made a public complaint. Some "friend" or other SD told her and she confronted me. My complaint was valid but her circumstances were extenuating. It was very awkward but we got past it and had a great run together. Keep the info to facts and no one can complain. In Escort terms YMMV.

I would be interested to know 1) is she seeing other SDs? 2) Is she a Pro? 3) any drama like flaking?

Does someone have the tech savvy to set up a Yahoo account with multiple users by invitation only?

[CaneBay]

Check Pot profiles with guys in your shopping district by PM. We can discover SBs who are multifucking, pros, or scammers. Each SD is hitting the same girls hard in each given area, so we are not tipping our hands by indicating interest. A bona fide monogamous Baby is going to vet a lot of profiles and settle on one Daddy. A user will sign up with multiples, and it is good to know if your Pot is working the system.

I asked for intel about an SB outside my area and got great info. I would have to exceed my safety parameters to hook her up so I wanted to know if she was an UTR. She was! So I backed off since I do not want to take a risk for a Pro. Lets' network more.

This is a great idea and works well. Keep in contact with the SD's in your area. It is also a great way to check if your SB is lying or not to you. Have a fellow SD contact and verify / discredit info. Another benefit is that you can bounce ideas off each other.

[FredMoore]

Check Pot profiles with guys in your shopping district by PM. We can discover SBs who are multifucking, pros, or scammers. Each SD is hitting the same girls hard in each given area, so we are not tipping our hands by indicating interest. A bona fide monogamous Baby is going to vet a lot of profiles and settle on one Daddy. A user will sign up with multiples, and it is good to know if your Pot is working the system.

I asked for intel about an SB outside my area and got great info. I would have to exceed my safety parameters to hook her up so I wanted to know if she was an UTR. She was! So I backed off since I do not want to take a risk for a Pro. Lets' network more.

[FredMoore]

I've got four regular escorts, each of whom qualifies (equally, although for different reasons) as an ATF. They range in price from down-right unbelievably inexpensive (25 per) to barely affordable for me (per). On average, I'd say I spend about $$ per.

My escort experience is damn good (in regard to quality and GFE experience. What I seek), but it seems a SB would offer the likelihood / prospect of more monogamous (notice the qualifier, "more") relationship. Something I'd rather have. Also, if possible, I'd like to improve the cost / per situation. The tradeoffs seem to be: escort-relatively effortless; SB-a good deal of work.

1. COST. HERE'S ONE OF THE QUESTIONS. From reading the forum, I can't determine whether the cost is less, about the same or more. I note that several of you have done the escort and the SB thing. What say you about relative cost? Seems to me, many of you get SBs at $per and that would improve the cost. If the norm is $$ per, then seems to me I break even and then it all comes down to effort and availability. Higher than $$per, then I think my cost is less with escorts.

2. I know there are two specific sites that seem to command the attention of bowl-participants. SA and SD4 M. Question TWO: I've not signed up on these as I'm unwilling to put up a credit-card number and will have to get a hobby-prepaid-card if it is worth the effort. I've tried to work the CL approach, and damn that is hard work for very little reward. So, the specifics on how to work the dedicated-SB cites are a little light, and unless it's more efficient than working (or trying to work) CL, I'm not sure it's worth my effort to go get a pre-paid card and try the commercial sites. Anyone got any specifics to pass along?

3. Final question: anyone have suggestions / experience to report on the small town opportunities? My town is 3000-6000 population (depending whether you count only my town or the adjacent one 10 miles away), and 2-3 hours from the major population center - 350,000 population.

All input will be received appreciatively and evaluated carefully.

RiverGriz.

Some basic Questions:

1) do you have time flexibility? Are you free to come and go when you want and do you have blocks of time to be away?

2) How important is variety?

3) do you have enough money to date as well as pay the fee?

4) CAN you wine and dine an SB?

1) COST: escort is cheaper. An SB requires courting including multiple communications, the M&G,the Dinner and Drinks, Hotel (or FC as we say) ,"allowance" which many want monthly, gifts, emergency calls for $ Help, travel for you or her. , and that is just the beginning. An escort comes with FC, no courting, no exposure in public, etc.

2) Sites: each area of the country is a little different. You need to see what comes up in your area on a Google search. Reach out to other boards in Alaska to see if any local guys can tip you off. SA and SDFM work in VA. Mainly SA. Sign up for many for free and as JL says, see how many girls are there AND signed in within 2 weeks. Many sites have a 1000 girls in my area but omly 14 within the past 2 weeks.

3) small towns: the world is a small place and even smaller in a small town. You will bump into someone you don't want to in town, especially if you are dating SBs. If you have the time and money to go to the bigger town work that area. Its a lot more work and trouble.

A Question: Ask your super ATF escort what it would take to make her yours. Are you willing to give up the variety?

A story: My ATF escort I saw weekly for $200/ pop. She had 2 kids and desperately wanted to get one guy and leave the business. Her Number was $32,000/ year. I could afford her at that for a monogamous fuck buddy on call any and everytime I wanted her. But I like variety and would tire of the same ole after a while.

Monogamy: Rare with even SBs. Many are playing multiple Daddies not to mention a BF. Why not? They can double or triple their income for an extra hour or two. So if you find a low volume escort who you like, go for it.

[JZLizard]

I sometimes go a week or two without checking back here, other times I check back multiple times per day. I just checked and saw a post called "Daddy's Little Angel" in another thread, which talked about a disappointing experience someone got in South Florida. Referenced thread here: http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/sh...s-Little-Angel.

Without intentional disrespect to that particular poster----Guys, I'm known for my directness so I'm going to be as crystal fucking clear as I can. If she wants payment first, she is an escort. Plain and simple. Not UTR, not maybe kinda-sorta, and for fucks sake don't think she's new at this so she needs some level of reassurance and that cash will help reassure her -- if you believe that you're being played, you are. A girl that takes payment before the deed is done a PRO!. She might as well swipe your credit card with a magnetic card reader on her phone.

You can identify a real SB by whether she "dates you" before any money changes hands. Don't be a chump and pay her first. I can tell you there is an entire SD culture that does not revolve around this particular thread.

Pre-agreed arrangement is one thing (and while I personally don't do that, you will encounter a request for it if you're in the bowl for any length of time) .

Pre-payment is something else entirely. Don't pre-pay if you want to be an SD. If you've known an SB for a while, and if she has delivered well on her promises consistently in the past (you've fucked her multiple times already and are happy with results) and have an instinctual good vibe about her personality, then use your judgment about advance allowances. It's okay to take good care of the good girls (and you should). But this is NOT the same as advancing money to someone you've never fucked, or even fucked only once. Doing so wrecks your own chances of future success and hurts the bowl overall. Bros before Hoes. You came here to get advice, so there it is.

[Dandy Don]

Next time I meet my new SB will likely be in a hotel. I did this once before at a lower end chain with my original SB and I paid cash although they still insisted on seeing my DL. But with this new SB I want a nicer hotel and my question is, will they typically let you pay or reserve with only a prepaid CC? Using my own CC is not an option.

[Dandy Don]

Ok, with family out of town, I was pretty desperate to set up a quality date with a quality SB. POT 1 was always target #1 as she is very attractive and by far the most normal chic I have talked with. After a couple of scheduling snafus that left me down in the dumps we eventually met and had about a 5 hour date. In our texts, we seem to converse pretty easily and freely, but in person, while we got along, I wouldn't say we totally clicked. But I think both of us were a little nervous and unsure of each other so by no means am I discouraged. I really think our next date will be better in terms of chemistry. What I do like about her is we can really talk about anything, she seems really easy going.

But I just want to encourage guys that may be struggling to try to stick with it. I started my SB quest in April, had one SB who did not really make the grade in terms of looks or the type of time I wanted to spend together (although the sex was pretty good). So for the last month and half I have been working pretty hard and it did eventually pay off. And it sort of boosts my confidence going forward that a really hot chic doesn't mind hanging out with me.

And I will add this. WYP was a waste for me. I hated agreeing to a "date" only to find out that the girl either lived further away then she stated, or really wasn't serious about setting something or wouldn't even agree to chat outside of the website. I almost suspect one of the girls was a WYP employee just trying to keep guys interested and logged into the sight. Maybe just bad luck for me, but I won't be putting any more money on that site.

[JZLizard]

DAMN, you guys post a lot, 7021 posts. I've RTFF. Every damn post, beginning to end! And, I'm still conflicted about the "bowl" and despite reading TFF, beginning to end, can't decide what is the better approach.

So, you guys that have resolved all my conundra. A little specific advice will be appreciated. Post or PM, as you prefer.

A few specifics. I live in Alaska, several hours outside Anchorage. But we do have a community college. However, my preferences lean toward 30-somethings or 40-somethings rather than the 20's. I find the former more reliable and a bit less dramatic.

I've appreciated especially all the good advice from Revvo, HollywoodGuy, FScott, FredMoore, SubCmdr, & BigTigger (in no particular order of importance). Some of you are out of my league, while some of you seem to have characteristics similar to mine.

I'm married (with NO relationship with the "boss" - I know, why not divorce. But the "group therapy" on this forum addresses that. Good discussions, guys), and in a small town, that makes things a bit more dicey. I'm a sixth-decader with a labido that defies the years. Hence the time spent on research.

I've got four regular escorts, each of whom qualifies (equally, although for different reasons) as an ATF. They range in price from down-right unbelievably inexpensive (25 per) to barely affordable for me (per). On average, I'd say I spend about $$ per.

My escort experience is damn good (in regard to quality and GFE experience. What I seek), but it seems a SB would offer the likelihood / prospect of more monogamous (notice the qualifier, "more") relationship. Something I'd rather have. Also, if possible, I'd like to improve the cost / per situation. The tradeoffs seem to be: escort-relatively effortless; SB-a good deal of work.

1. COST. HERE'S ONE OF THE QUESTIONS. From reading the forum, I can't determine whether the cost is less, about the same or more. I note that several of you have done the escort and the SB thing. What say you about relative cost? Seems to me, many of you get SBs at $per and that would improve the cost. If the norm is $$ per, then seems to me I break even and then it all comes down to effort and availability. Higher than $$per, then I think my cost is less with escorts.

2. I know there are two specific sites that seem to command the attention of bowl-participants. SA and SD4 M. Question TWO: I've not signed up on these as I'm unwilling to put up a credit-card number and will have to get a hobby-prepaid-card if it is worth the effort. I've tried to work the CL approach, and damn that is hard work for very little reward. So, the specifics on how to work the dedicated-SB cites are a little light, and unless it's more efficient than working (or trying to work) CL, I'm not sure it's worth my effort to go get a pre-paid card and try the commercial sites. Anyone got any specifics to pass along?

3. Final question: anyone have suggestions / experience to report on the small town opportunities? My town is 3000-6000 population (depending whether you count only my town or the adjacent one 10 miles away), and 2-3 hours from the major population center - 350,000 population.

All input will be received appreciatively and evaluated carefully.

RiverGriz.

1. The game of true SD / SB is a little bit "upscale" both in terms of cost expectation and quality of women from the general escort scene. The waters are muddied quite a bit by the fact the SB scene is flooded with UTR girls and sometimes escorts, so just distinguishing between them is going to be the challenge. In theory the dollar cost PER HOUR of *companionship* (not necessarily sex) would be lower with SB if you want a hot girl on your arm, because a true SB will spend time with you without watching the clock. The girls I meet usually can't be talked out of staying all night before they even have a clue how much I will gift them. I sometimes wish they would leave after the second round of fucking so I can get a good night's sleep but it's not always that easy. If I put any sort of dollar amount on my own time, SB dating would be catastrophically expensive. Someone else wrote about that in depth here. It requires A LOT of time to do it well, and if you figure that time is something that could be spent elsewhere EARNING money, it's a phenomenally expensive hobby. There are benefits to be had in the bowl that you typically don't get from escorts, but they come with the price of your time (and if married a much higher level of risk). The whole game is a risk-reward scenario. With escorts you don't worry about paternity suits, blackmail attempts, hiding your identity, etc. But sex with a low volume girl (SB, or even UTR girl in some cases) is almost going to better than someone who has turned her pussy into an assembly line process. I think I've said this before, but I think coming into the bowl with the purpose of cost savings is a really bad move. We should be SDs because we've invested the time to fully understand the difference between being an SD and an escort client, not because we want to save a buck. With all things considered, I'm going to say escorts are far more economical in the long run.

2. The SD sites can be just as hard work as CL depending on what you're looking for, but in general they will put you in touch with girls faster. The efficiency of the process to me makes the credit card payment worthwhile, but it also comes with tradeoffs such as you will have a certain number of girls that decide whether they will even respond to you based on what you write in your profile, and it creates an online identity that is somewhat recognizable (I. E. Girls on these sites work with their friends who are also SBs to trade information about SDs, including your profile name). When you operate strictly on CL you have a higher level of anonymity, can change your introduction verbiage easily and morph with each ad you post, and do not have an online profile. Almost everyone is familiar with CL, so you stand the chance to meet someone there who has not really made a mental commitment to something like signing up for an SD site. How the actual goods are on each type of site will depend greatly on your geographic area, you might get vastly different results in your area than what you read about on this thread.

3. I would think in a smaller town you've got a more limited playing field and also less opportunity for anonymity. Your post already indicates you're aware of the bigger problem here -- the smaller the world the harder it is to stay covert. I've written about this before, but if I were married and there was alimony or asset division on the table, there is no way in hell you would catch me with an SB in a small town. Even 350,000 seems like a small world to play in as a married guy, but since it's 2-3 hours away it might be plenty safe so I'd say that market is your best bet for SBs. Escorts would be a far safer bet in a small town, they just want their hourly rate and there is no expectation for a "relationship" (some SB's idea of a relationship includes financial AND emotional support, but all the true SBs have some sort of "relationship" in mind).

So basically based on what you've told me I'd stick with escorts close to home, and if you want to dabble in the bowl go for the more populated area 2-3 hrs away.

[BamBam]

1. COST. HERE'S ONE OF THE QUESTIONS. From reading the forum, I can't determine whether the cost is less, about the same or more. I note that several of you have done the escort and the SB thing. What say you about relative cost? Seems to me, many of you get SBs at $per and that would improve the cost. If the norm is $$ per, then seems to me I break even and then it all comes down to effort and availability. Higher than $$per, then I think my cost is less with escorts.

RiverGriz.

Cost with SB's will likely be higher and it is more work but the experience is better: for me the girls are fresher and better looking. They have mostly had blah sex with guys their own age and light up like crazy when given a really skilled outing. Finally, escorts have time limits. SB's will generally give as much time as you need and will go places and do things (like dinner and drinks) that escorts charge to do. It is a value equation that favors SB's - - for me. YMMV.

As for what sites to join, I had the following thoughts: I believe that both SA and SD4 Me allow you to join for free. Yu can do this using an anonymous gmail account. There are limits on what you can do for free. For example, you cannot communicate with SB's. What it will let you do is browse and search for POT's near you. You would only pay for the sites if there are women there to contact. If less than a few dozen, I wouldn't do it. This game is played using large numbers. Finally, if you have a small college near you, I would lower my age target to allow some of the women there to play. Seniors need dress clothes for when they go job hunting. And it' fun to play mentor.

RB.

[Rouleur]

Sad thing is, he seemed like the type who was really down to earth and didn't really need much money. He just liked going cycling, playing video games, drove a Toyota Prius. Everything else seems like he was busting his ass for pussy, like we all do. This is why I'm ranting about his wife, seems to me she wasn't playing the supportive role she signed up for by marrying him. I think when these broads don't hold up their end of the deal they should walk away with nothing.

Getting control of our cocks and not letting it control us is one of the best things we can do as SDs... or just males for that matter. Pussy prison is hell.

In the mid to late 80's I used to run a few miles around a track in Los Angeles. Always in the evening like clockwork. Robin, who was jogging on a regular basis, and I (and I don't mean to imply a friendship that did not exist) would chat for a few minutes at a relaxed pace and then I would proceed with my workout. Every time I would pass him on the track he would crack some joke about me. But it was done in the most playful way. He was trying to make me laugh and lose my pace. Anyway, I was immersed in the Movie business back then and I can say that, in my experience, he was the most down to earth crazy friendly genius I ever met. Again, we were not friends, just two acquaintances sharing a High School track. However, when I read that he had passed it brought tears to my eyes just because he was such an amazingly good guy. Sorry to be off topic, just wanted to share.