"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[Walruscl]

4. A number of SDs are communicating that their assistance is only $ per meeting, I really don't get it as any girl can get a bar or food service job in the big city and clear $$ per night via legit work.

As at least one other person has pointed out, clearing $$ per night for service jobs is pretty much the exception, not the rule. Keeping in mind the limitations of anecdotal evidence, my SB basically clears about a little over half a $ per day. That's after a couple of years in one of the more labor-friendly food chains. As low-paying as it is, she considers herself lucky to have the job, as most of the alternatives in the service / unskilled labor market pay less.

This isn't a big city area, but it's only about 90 minutes to the nearest one, and the cost of living here isn't outrageous but nor is it cheap. She's going to school, with zero assistance from her parents, and there's no way she could pull that off on just her regular job.

We started out at $$/ visit, but have since moved on to a less rigid arrangement. Earning about 3 x of a day at her regular job in exchange for 4-6 hours of naked fun is a good deal. Even if she weren't smitten with me and having the best sex of her life, those financials are quite compelling.

[JZLizard]

Never forget Gents, THE GIRLS ARE HERE FOR MONEY. They aren't looking for the love of their life. Sure, they hope to have a good time, cool experiences, maybe even sex with an experienced guy, but the bottom line is some level of support.

The thing is though all women are looking for some level of support. So, if that's our criteria for a pro, there is no such thing as an SB or an escort at all. From a logical standpoint that would mean all women are the same and they are all pros. It's like saying just because all men want sex, and because all men provide some sort of support (even if it is providing a home for their wife), then we are all just johns paying hookers.

I'm never one to try to change another man's opinion, but in a public forum I do think it's very important to separate opinion from facts. There's nothing I could say about the categorization of SBs versus UTRs versus escorts that I could proclaim is factual, it's just my opinion. But the important thing is that we never narrow our thinking to the point that we start believing that definitions are created only from our own experiences. Just because we have not experienced, something doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that someone else hasn't experienced it.

I personally have experienced SBs who would not take my money. I have met those who are in search of love (even though that's not what I'm looking for). If all we have is a hammer, the whole world starts looking like a nail. If there is one thing I could say that goes beyond opinion and enters the realm of fact, it is that if we approach girls online with offers for money, we are only going to be able to attract UTRs and pros. There's nothing wrong with doing that, but it's important to dodge delusions that what we see in our own personal approach is all that exists.

I personally don't want to see the entire SB scene turned into a pure UTR scene just because that's what some people are doing. Granted, there is a LOT of UTR experiences to be had there, and there can be a fine line between a true SB and a UTR. But losing sight of the difference or denying it exists isn't good for any of us in the bowl.

[Beachesnole02]

Took the bikes out for a ride on the 4th up and down the beach. There was just an incredible influx of hot women in small bikinis. Spent they day wondering which ones had SD's. Kind of explains my luck when there are so many around.

As for your questions Latex, which site is best seems to vary geographically. In my area SA has worked well, AF seems to have more pros, have not tried SD4 me, but have had luck running a talent ad on CL. I have a private photo which I share after they express interest, and I have in my profile that I do not care about marital status. As for making 2 bills a night in a legitimate job. I don't think you are connected to the real world. Yes there are some jobs in some areas where they can do that, but in my city only bartenders in the high end establishments average that, and it is seasonal, not regular income. Married women in the bowl, college students and single moms typically have much lower paying jobs. I have some I contribute more to, but most are 1 to 1. 50 per visit.

Update. Halfway through my busy week. Translator and I went at it after her birthday lunch. Countertop sex in the kitchen, a new one for me. Still the best lay I have had in ages. Second in the rotation the model, would have been great if I was not seeing the translator. She is over her BJ hangup and still has the hottest body, but takes more than she gives in bed. My 4th visit with the" married but left home alone" got postponed to this afternoon due to my SO taking yesterday off. My SO was feeling randy after our bike ride and took care of business on the ottoman like we used to when we were dating.

[Latex]

Fellow SDs,

A couple of questions that I am pondering:

1. Which site has yielded you the best results SA or SD4 M? Any differences in the types of SBs you are finding on the different sites?

2. What is your frequency of assistance? Per meeting or monthly?

3. I am hesitant to post a picture, if you have posted a pic do you have better results?

4. A number of SDs are communicating that their assistance is only $ per meeting, I really don't get it as any girl can get a bar or food service job in the big city and clear $$ per night via legit work.

5. Do you use a template in initial email contact? What is your response rate?

6. Searching through the site I really can't find a FAQ with all the abbreviations defined: I am wondering what NANDO means.

Thanks,

[RubberyMan]

Hi,

Long time lurker here.

Reasons? I live overseas, so a lot of my experience is not relevant. ($ values, economic needs of SB difference etc). I am senior on a couple of p4 p and Philippine boards, so don't need to post irrelevant stuff to get post numbers up. You guys have posted some awesome stuff, so I don't need to post stupid questions. There's lots in the forum. So many thanks.

My own experience of the sugar bowl started over ten years ago, when a flatmate had some financial problems. However, being her flatmate, I knew she was high risk because she had multiple guys per week. For free. When I declined the offer, she came back with a proposal to introduce me to someone. In short, young married couple, overnight for the price of an hour escort, everything on the buffet, bareback. I was fifty, so that was a good deal. My flatmate facilitated several more of these for a few years till I shifted state for work.

Then I went to the Phil's on vacation. Forget any bs that you see in the media, the scene there is not, repeat, not point and click p4 p, it is better described as sugar bowl on training wheels. The M&G is arranged for you in bars in places like Subic and Angeles City, but they can and will refuse you, and they can and will apply GPS principles. People going there from a p4 p perspective can be just as shocked as if they think p4 p principles will work in the SBowl. They don't. OTOH, if you like Asian women, and want some real GFE overnight for 2000 Pesos. With SB skills developed here, you are well ahead.

The other thing that I found in my country is that many of the SB are married or have partners. However, they represent themselves as single on SA etc. That explains a lot of flakiness IMHO. Even if the partner knows and agrees with what is going on, they have a lot of obligations on weekends with in-laws and friends they have to work around.

I have found that subtly letting Pots know that I am OK with married women has increased my 'hit' rate enormously.

Worries about pregnancy and std issues are less too with married SB, and they need to be just as discreet as we are.

[FredMoore]

IS she or isn't she? : That is the question.

I agree with Hollywood about a real SB having one SD and that more than one SD (paying customer) approaches Pro status. If good looking girls would pay me to sleep with them, I would be a Pro all the way! But what's in a label? As a guy investing my time, energy, money, and freedom I prefer to have a Baby who only sees one at a time = ME. The problem is, unless you are providing her with complete support at a high level, we really don't have the right to demand monogamy. Ask for it is one thing, but we are setting them up for failure. The key to monogamy is to capture them emotionally. When they love you they will not want to see others. We all have different opinions on the subject and each to his own. My multiyear ATF SB was seeing 3 of us, and my latest was actively prospecting SA and SDFM later in our relationship. They needed more money.

Never forget Gents, THE GIRLS ARE HERE FOR MONEY. They aren't looking for the love of their life. Sure, they hope to have a good time, cool experiences, maybe even sex with an experienced guy, but the bottom line is some level of support.

" Last time she had fckd was Christmas and that she felt like it was Christmas all over again. " Roleur.

Dang those were deep and long lasting bruises! 6 mos. Well, they fit your hand so she is consistent with the size guy she likes. Lying be*&5 ch Well Bro, if the price was right use her as an UTR when you have an opening in your schedule.

Scotty, as we said "welcome Back " --where the hell are you? Get posting Brother!

[FotoGuy1970]

Truth in advertising is good Curiosit! Many SBs we all see are UTR and we just don't know that they are seeing others. I would rather know and make the decision whether I am OK with that or not. I like a nice blend between naivte and skill. I like to feel like I can show my SB something that she has not had in the same way before.

I had to dismiss one girl earlier this year for not being honest about having (or at the very least seeking) at least one other partner. I always discuss that with any POT: To just be honest with me if they're going to be non-exclusive. Honesty goes a long way with me.

[FotoGuy1970]

Hello my brothers!

I am glad to be once again among the land of the living. A quick scan of the clubhouse journal shows me many, many new names, a few old familiars, and plenty of exploits to catch up on. I will file a full report in the next few days or so, but suffice it to say that I have been dealing with health, marital and financial stresses, any one of which would have been enough to knock me out for good, but it is a testament to the power of the Bowl that I rallied, got my shit together, and am feeling optimistic about hearing the soft yet unmistakable sound of panties hitting the floor again soon!

For those of you new Brothers who don't know me, welcome and glad to meet you. Hopefully you have learned from the considerable collective wisdom that is contained in these pages, and are enjoying this most woderful and elevated of hobbies. Please keep in mind the injunction of our founder, Literal2, which is "do no harm. " These little fish are gentle creatures, if your are casting to the right ones, and should be treated as such. Banging a battle-weary war horse, no matter how much lipstick she has on, is nothing to brag about, in my opinion. For all my old friends, I hope you have saved me a spot at the table, and want to assure you that I am back from the dead, (almost literally), and am eager to read of your exploits. I have a few interesting anecdotes, but not much in the way of new exploits, except I'm pretty sure I'm a baby-daddy (how's that for a tease? More later).

Peace to you all.

Scott.

Good to have you back, Scott!

[JZLizard]

I have to say I disagree. I only consider girls that are with one guy at a time an SB. More than one they go to UTR status. Maybe being single and having some flexibility at work lets me dig deeper into what these girls are doing on their own time. If you see anyone more than once a week and for weeks or months at a time you are going to know what's going on. I have people doubt my ability to judge these situations correctly all the time. But I am usually pretty right on and don't get in denial. But of course I am always on the lookout and always investigating. Could I be fooled. Sure. But I really don't think I am and usually have no trouble getting the truth out of any girl as far as who and how many or is it really exclusive.

Keep in mind I'm not saying all women cheat and lie incessantly. I'm saying it's better to assume they do (especially in a game like the bowl), because it precludes any disappointment. There are honest women out there but they are outnumbered by the liars. This is what they do, and we can expect a much higher rate of dishonesty from SBs. Maybe you keep a closer eye on your girls. Hell, I know a guy who gives his girls free use of a car (that he's put a GPS tracking device on, which he can do legally since he owns the car). Me I don't have time to watch someone every moment like that.

There's an old saying that it only takes a few minutes to cheat. One of the old misconceptions is "they were only out of my sight for an hour or two". It happens all the time in that time frame. Women are absolute masters of deception -- they have tricks up their sleeves that testosterone prevents us from even being able to see. I don't know your girls so I'm not going to tell you they are lying, but I will tell you that seeing them once a week for any time frame is not going to guarantee their honesty (understood that maybe you're watching them in other ways).

Me personally I just know women too well. Also, being involved in technology and security, I know ways of keeping eyes on them most people don't. Yes some women can be trusted but they have to show me they are trust worthy first. In the mean time I don't hold their lies against them, I just don't expect any more from them than that and don't take it too seriously. What does it matter? I'm banging others too, I'm not going to be hypocritical about it because I don't want to answer to them about what I do anyway. Just have fun with it, unless it's a serious relationship or marriage, then watch them and test them before making the plunge.

[JZLizard]

A few days ago I met a potential SB who, during a couple days of emailing back and forth, stated many times that she was totally single, had not had sex for ages and was up for some FC fun. We met for lunch and decided we should take it to the next stage. Up in the hotel room we proceeded to act like animals in heat to the point where I flipped her over onto her stomach with the intent of taking her from behind. Much to my curiosity, there appeared to be bruises that matched the pattern of two hands on both cheeks of her ass. In fact, when I grabbed her cute butt cheeks with my hands it was like a perfect fit with the bruising. I also noticed what looked like a bite mark on her left shoulder near the back of her neck.

I was all in at that point and she, like so many other SBs I've met, told me she likes it rough and not to be afraid to bite her. WTF? How do I end up with these types? LOL Anyway after the fireworks had gone off for both of us we were laying there just sort of cooling off when I asked her casually if it had been as good as the last time she had fcked. With the most straight- poker tournament winning- face she told me the last time she had fckd was Christmas and that she felt like it was Christmas all over again. You know what? If I hadn't seen the bruises I would have believed her as well. At least I didn't drink the previous Christmas's eggnog! One and done.

LOL! I enjoyed this story, especially the handprint-shaped bruises.

[Dolato]

Hooking up is having sex. Some kind of sex. Hanging out can mean no sex. But some SB's as has been discussed here, don't just want to only hook up. If they can't hang out with you they don't want to have sex with you. I am the hangout type with some girls. But only want to hook up with others. So knowing what the possibilities are beyond that, is always helpful.

For me, hooking up has always meant having sex. Recently as I've been around more 18-23 year olds thanks to the bowl, I've heard from many girls in different areas refer to just making out as hooking up as well.

Just thought I'd share.

And I'm just catching up on the posts from the past week. To the post about finding new POTS through current / former SBs, that's tough to do but has been a great way to find a true fresh SB.

[HollywoodGuy]

My experience with women has been mostly that you have to assume they are fucking someone else unless they live with you and you really know where they are and what they are doing at all times. A true SB might have other SDs that she may or may not admit, or just banging dudes her age.

So I wouldn't say an SB is a UTR just because she has other SDs. I think what differentiates an SB from a UTR is how selective she is and whether money is her only selection criteria. Although I might say that if there is really such a thing as an exclusive UTR, it might be fair to say she is gravitating toward the behavior of a real SB just by the fact she is exclusive, because that means she has selectively chosen to fuck only one guy -- unless she has been a UTR escort at one point prior, I'd say she is more SB than UTR in that particular case.

In other words I think it's a safe assumption that even if you have an SB who says she's exclusive, she's fucking someone else whether it's an SD or just one of her boyfriends and just not telling you about it. Some women in the civy dating world are above that, but in general women lie so in order to prevent feeling like a chump it's safer to assume they will or do cheat.

It's fair play though, most of us are cheating too when we do this.

But I know. Individual semantics are what they are. I just like to categorize the girls and distinguish them clearly because to me it greatly defines their worth. I wouldn't want to gift a UTR girl at the same rate I would gift a true SB.

I have to say I disagree. I only consider girls that are with one guy at a time an SB. More than one they go to UTR status. Maybe being single and having some flexibility at work lets me dig deeper into what these girls are doing on their own time. If you see anyone more than once a week and for weeks or months at a time you are going to know what's going on. I have people doubt my ability to judge these situations correctly all the time. But I am usually pretty right on and don't get in denial. But of course I am always on the lookout and always investigating. Could I be fooled. Sure. But I really don't think I am and usually have no trouble getting the truth out of any girl as far as who and how many or is it really exclusive.

[Rouleur]

A few days ago I met a potential SB who, during a couple days of emailing back and forth, stated many times that she was totally single, had not had sex for ages and was up for some FC fun. We met for lunch and decided we should take it to the next stage. Up in the hotel room we proceeded to act like animals in heat to the point where I flipped her over onto her stomach with the intent of taking her from behind. Much to my curiosity, there appeared to be bruises that matched the pattern of two hands on both cheeks of her ass. In fact, when I grabbed her cute butt cheeks with my hands it was like a perfect fit with the bruising. I also noticed what looked like a bite mark on her left shoulder near the back of her neck.

I was all in at that point and she, like so many other SBs I've met, told me she likes it rough and not to be afraid to bite her. WTF? How do I end up with these types? LOL Anyway after the fireworks had gone off for both of us we were laying there just sort of cooling off when I asked her casually if it had been as good as the last time she had fcked. With the most straight- poker tournament winning- face she told me the last time she had fckd was Christmas and that she felt like it was Christmas all over again. You know what? If I hadn't seen the bruises I would have believed her as well. At least I didn't drink the previous Christmas's eggnog! One and done.

[JZLizard]

Truth in advertising is good Curiosit! Many SBs we all see are UTR and we just don't know that they are seeing others. I would rather know and make the decision whether I am OK with that or not. I like a nice blend between naivte and skill. I like to feel like I can show my SB something that she has not had in the same way before.

My experience with women has been mostly that you have to assume they are fucking someone else unless they live with you and you really know where they are and what they are doing at all times. A true SB might have other SDs that she may or may not admit, or just banging dudes her age.

So I wouldn't say an SB is a UTR just because she has other SDs. I think what differentiates an SB from a UTR is how selective she is and whether money is her only selection criteria. Although I might say that if there is really such a thing as an exclusive UTR, it might be fair to say she is gravitating toward the behavior of a real SB just by the fact she is exclusive, because that means she has selectively chosen to fuck only one guy -- unless she has been a UTR escort at one point prior, I'd say she is more SB than UTR in that particular case.

In other words I think it's a safe assumption that even if you have an SB who says she's exclusive, she's fucking someone else whether it's an SD or just one of her boyfriends and just not telling you about it. Some women in the civy dating world are above that, but in general women lie so in order to prevent feeling like a chump it's safer to assume they will or do cheat.

It's fair play though, most of us are cheating too when we do this.

But I know. Individual semantics are what they are. I just like to categorize the girls and distinguish them clearly because to me it greatly defines their worth. I wouldn't want to gift a UTR girl at the same rate I would gift a true SB.

[JZLizard]

My initial observations is that the Sugar bowl: Consumes a considerable amount of time, lots of SBs having high expectations, the responses from UTR girls seem to be easier to get.

Considerable amount of time is right! That's the one part of it that I don't miss during my leaves of absence from the bowl. I usually aim for the true SBs and sidestep the UTRs as much as possible. As you said, they are harder, so that of course lowers the quantity, increases the amount of time required, and increases the risk of something else going sideways like the chemistry not being right.

This is why I don't even try to approach the SB's with a "how much per fuck?" game plan -- I try to remove the transactional aspect as much as possible. The problem is most of the true SBs would either not respond to a "how much" question or would quote ridiculous (500,1000, 1500 etc) per date expectations, so why bother. It's better to meet them and try to drum up the natural chemistry, throw a few drinks down their throat and try to get them motivated to get in bed thinking about the act rather than the payment. That way whatever I gift them at the end always ends up being well-received. I don't think I force myself to pay these girls what they would quote me if I asked.

On the other hand, if you want lots of girls with less hassle, honing skills identifying UTRs is probably the way to go. There are times when I wish I had a list of fallback options for the slow nights, but with the time window of my once-a-year SB season, I really only get one opportunity to present who I am and what I'm looking for to each girl.