"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

**FredMoore** · 06-13-14 09:15

JG, very nice thoughts and I think your approach is a sensible one to build a "real" SB. On the other hand it takes a LOT of effort, much more than showing up with cash and fucking your brains out. I have a Nando 1 right now who is the poster child of the scenario that you just described. At best she is a BC and is milking me with one disaster after the other. It is Tat and no Tit for me. I will pull the plug if she doesn't show up for her banging today.

So making the effort is very time consuming and requires forethought ,lots of cash flow ,even small amts , to put on a card or order things off the web . This is easier if you are single or real independent from your SO . It is fun and pays off with the right person, but money trumps all . Unless you are young enough to be attractive to the SB in your own right most babies are going to want their envelope . Monthly allowances only work at a higher level of Sugaring with educated girls . I do not have the time or energy to do all that shopping and thinking about what she wants and needs . I can't even get massage oil and candles on a regular basis .

**John G Smith** · 06-13-14 06:50

I'm in a writing mood tonight.

But I started thinking did us guys shoot ourselves in the foot when we started offering allowances per date? Because often times a date equals sex, so we've started to condition new Non-Pros and SBs to get payment for every sexual encounter.

Now this came as an evolution from an allowance per month. The problem with allowance per month is that new inexperienced SDs were being taken advantage of by young tight teasing SBs. SBs might say they needed to "get to know you better" before engaging in sex or the meetups would be inconsistent even though you already paid in advance for the month. So basically for the whole month the SD was trying to catch his money's worth, often failing.

In comparison, allowance per visit is much lower risk. You're outlaying a smaller amount and the chances of getting sugar for sugar is much higher. And if the girl is a dud it's easier to drop her or phase her out. A lot of girls like it too because it's easier to find a Pay per Visit SD compared to a monthly allowance one. And they can see multiple SDs in a month, instead of being at the beck and call of one SD for an entire month.

The downside is that we're breeding a bunch of booty call and UTR girls. They obviously have their place, but I think everyone can agree it's getting harder to find real SBs who understand they need to be a pleaser and spoil their SD in order for them to get sugar. Too many of them have GPS and want to get paid just for showing up at M&G with vapid / non-existent conversation. They've gotten the "Pay me First" mentality. Perhaps those type of girls would have never made good SBs, but I think they're have been entry level Non-Pros who could have been real SBs, but the Pay per Date steered them toward UTR / GPS.

To attempt to answer my own question, I think Allowance per Visit has made SD / SB arrangements more accessible to more guys, especially those coming from the mongering world of escorts and AMPs (which is just about all of us, LOL). We can try out more girls at a reduced risk. And if things don't work out with a particular girl, at least we got a one night stand out of it. I think it's created an excellent Booty Call market. SDFM should probably change its name to Booty Call For Me. But I also think the side-effect is that establishing real SD / SB relationships is becoming harder in the current climate where everyone wants instant compensation / gratification. And with many girls nowadays even if you try to switch to a monthly allowance, their performance will deteriorate after the 1st of the month because they already got their money. Or worse they'll treat it as one mega-booty call pay day and use the rest of the month to see other SDs on pay per visit basis. That's the type of SBs we're breeding.

The key is still to get them fresh and hopefully mold them into a proper SB before they get polluted. But of course, those are hard to find.

**John G Smith** · 06-13-14 05:27

Originally Posted by Dolato [View Original Post]

Congrats on getting the sugar aspect all set up. Seems like work to work in the gifts, but kudos for getting it to work.

I wanted to ask, do you keep track of how much you're spending on cash and gifts and try to keep it to a certain amount?

Early on when I was mostly doing cash and gift cards, I tried to keep it roughly to a certain amount. But as we talked more and I knew more of interests and needs, I was able to pick out gifts that she liked that didn't necessarily cost me a lot of money. For example, in our conversations she mentioned she wanted a case for her tablet that was pretty hard to find. I found and bought the case for only $40, but it might as well have been worth $200 because she wasn't expecting it and was extremely happy that I found it. I added a $50 gift card on top if it and still came way under my budget for the week. So gifts require a little more leg-work but you either get more savings or the SB just may be way more appreciative in the end.

Another thing I like about physical gifts is that I'm implanting constant reminders of me in her daily life. Every time she admires her tablet case, she will think of me. When she's able to get free coffee with the gift card I gave her, she will think of me. When she uses her year-long Netflix / Hulu subscriptions, she will think of me. When she puts on the sexy under-garments I bought her, even if she's with her boyfriend, she'll be thinking of me, haha. And etc. With the physical gifts, there's a lot of steady residual reminders of the positive elements she gets of our SD / SB relationship. If I just gave her cold hard cash everytime, she would just blow it in a couple of days and probably give zero thought to me, except to get more cash. Also I would be more vulnerable to getting outbid by another SD who simply offers up more cash. The gifts (which again are often based off our conversations) provide intangibles that aren't easily replicated. And it allows her to feel more comfortable sleeping with me "for free" on certain occasions because she knows the relationship overall gives her on-going value and she wants to keep me happy.

So for real SBs (not booty calls), I recommend trying to go this route. Start with a cash and gift card combo. Do this the first time you successfully hit the FC and never mention giving her a fixed amount per visit. Just give it to her and hopefully she's happy with it. And if she's happy with it then adjust the amounts of both (cash & gift cards) but keep the overall value roughly the same. You're training her to never expect the exact same cash amount, but that you're still being generous with some surprises. If things are still going well, then give her a Green Dot card or equivalent. At this point, stop handing her cash. Only give her money through the green dot either before or after the FC visit. Also mix it up, occasionally send her $40-50 for random things. Initially you might spend a little more than you normally do but gradually detaching cold cash from the FC and muddling the allowance / FC scorecard will benefit you in the long run if you do it right. It might be that you sent her $50-75 twice over a week or two, so you're not obligated to give her money the day of your FC date but you could still slip her a gift card or small gift to make her happy. Other times, you could splurge more on gifts or give her extra for a particular expense or event. The key thing is to keep things organic, fluid, and surprise her. If she starts to flake for a bit, then just subtly turn down the facet until things return to normal. Personally I think it makes for a better SD / SB relationship and it gives you flexibility with your budget. It may not always be cheaper, but you have flexibility and you can space your costs out. And it may not happen often but Nirvana is when she willingly sleeps with you without direct compensation on a particular date. It means you've successfully extracted all the escort / GPS viruses out of her and converted her into a real sugar baby.

I'm happy to share these secrets because I think this approach can help reverse the tide of the GPSs if it catches on and gets SBs behaving more like old-school mistresses and not escorts. With an escort, you're explicitly paying for sex. With a sugar baby, you give her money / gifts or treat her to nice things when she makes you happy. (Of course, sex makes most of us happy.).

A couple of caveats though. I've done this with 3 SBs so far, it worked great with 2 of them. However if you have a Nando1 SB. A SB who is constantly hitting you up for money or is always in major financial trouble or involved in drama, then this probably won't work. The Green Dot card will backfire and she'll be asking you for money all the time without her feeling the need to have sex with you. So this only really works for relatively stable SBs who have a job or maybe live at home. Girls who work or go to school, but just don't have enough time to spoil themselves (or have a boyfriend is incapable of it) or just need some extra spending money. With those type of girls, the organic approach can work.

**Dolato** · 06-13-14 01:29

Originally Posted by JohnGSmith [View Original Post]

I'm ecstatic because I got this relationship exactly where I want it and we're clicking very well.

Congrats on getting the sugar aspect all set up. Seems like work to work in the gifts, but kudos for getting it to work.

I wanted to ask, do you keep track of how much you're spending on cash and gifts and try to keep it to a certain amount?

**John G Smith** · 06-13-14 00:20

Well I'm feeling on cloud 9 right now.

A couple of days ago, my CL Teacher SB and I were figuring out our schedules and what days to meet. She said she had Wednesday and Thursday free. I told her I had Wednesday completely free, but her gift that I got her wouldn't arrive until Thursday, which I had a tight schedule that day. So she suggested we meet both days! So the first day we relaxed and had a great sex romp, and I didn't pay a single penny and she was completely fine with it since she knew she was getting something the next day. The second day we metup briefly and I give her the gifts which she absolutely loved, then we proceeded to have another great sex romp. It was great having her offer to have sex without anything tied to it and then more sex after she got the gift the next day.

I'm ecstatic because I got this relationship exactly where I want it and we're clicking very well. She never asks me for money, but she's very appreciative when I do give her money and gifts. The money / gifts don't even have to be tied to specific visits. We can have sex without a money / gift exchange on a given night. But in return I sometimes send her money without direct sex involved. She has a boyfriend, so I don't have to worry about things getting too intense emotionally. At least for now, things are in great balance. She can be a little flaky sometimes, but she has gotten much better with communicating with me on schedule changes. And the few times she does flake, it helps my budget a bit. So we're in a good spot right now and it's pretty much the near perfect SB relationship I'm looking for.

My little blonde Personal Assistant is on vacation so it was great timing to have sex back-to-back with my CL Teacher SB.

**John G Smith** · 06-12-14 23:43

Everyone here has been spot on with their advice.

Unless you've reached the escape velocity where your relationship has become capable of being more than a typical SD / SB arrangement, then she will most certainly feel devalued or disrespected with lowering the allowance. Every time I've lowered the allowance noticeably, usually things ended shortly after or the sexual performance degraded significantly. In fact, that's how I usually end things by having her "break-up" with me by lowering the allowance or claim financial troubles.

As already been pointed out, if you're trying to keep a SB, you're better off just reducing the frequency instead of lowering the allowance. You can either do it silently by having a "schedule conflict" when you normally meet. Or you can do it directly and tell her you're having a little bit of a financial bump in the road. Sometimes she may offer to see you for less allowance, but you should let her bring it up, not you.

One thing that hasn't been discussed yet, if you can, try to avoid set allowance amounts in the first place. If it's not set in stone that you give her $200 every visit, then it's easier to give differing amounts (within reason) without her feeling something is wrong. What I do is try to have a mix of cash and gifts. With my CL Teacher SB I gave her a GreenDot card, so I can randomly send her money. Sometimes out of the blue I'll just send her $50 for dinner or whatever. I also get her gifts that look valuable but I got good deals on. All of this muddles the exact allowance I give her and everything isn't tied to $ per visit. It's more organic, where I do nice things for her and she does nice things for me over the course of the month. Obviously it takes the right kind of girl, but this can work with Long-Term SBs and you can quietly make budget adjustments without her even feeling it.

**Dandy Don** · 06-12-14 21:48

[deleted by admin]
editor's note: this report was edited to remove references to **** persons.

i am aware that the vast majority of references to **** girls are legitimate attempts to warn other fellow members about how easy it is to accidentally pickup an **** girls, the potential dangers of being caught with **** girls, etc. however, past discussions in the forum has repeatedly demonstrated that the subject simply cannot be discussed intelligently, in any form or for any reason, without being misinterpreted, and without starting flame wars.

please do not post references to **** persons in the forum. thanks!

**FotoGuy1970** · 06-12-14 18:15

Had a second overnight date with my SDT SB last night. She definitely put more effort into the areas that I had expressed disappointment with in our first date. At this point, she is my only SB and she said that she's not seeing any other guys, but sometimes it's hard to tell with these girls, no matter how genuine they seem. She's a very sweet girl, almost shy, and very easy to talk to. She definitely has "girl next door" written all over her. Not sure if this is a regular thing or what. I'm still looking around on SA until my membership lapses once again at the end of the month.

**BamBam** · 06-12-14 13:31

You guys have come up with the same analysis as I have. Any cut is going to be viewed as demeaning and disrespectful. I am going to follow the suggestions in the following way: 1) Cut the high-priced SB's back to once a month. 2) Explain that I am stretched thin by a child starting college in the Fall, some overdue repairs at home and some bad investments. (I am retired and they know I am relying on investment income versus a job.) Over time, I will stretch out the gap between meetings. If they call asking me to see them, I will explain I only have the lower amount available and didn't want to insult them by asking for a discount. (Some of them call or text me frequently asking when we can meet.) They can then either agree to the lower amount or they can cut *me* loose. This gives me the option of going back to them and offering the original amount if my circumstances change. I feel comfortable with this approach. I know I am lucky to have this kind of problem and expect the world will turn someday.

RB.

P.S. CVG is the airport designation for the Cincinnati / Northern Kentucky airport. It derives from the nearest city which is Covington, KY.

**DirtyDeeds38** · 06-12-14 12:44

Originally Posted by Dolato [View Original Post]

I'm not sure what the exact playing field is like in Cincinnati, but if POTs are saying yes to $, then why not let your current roster know that due to some financial issues with your work / business, you can now only offer them $ rather than $$. Start with the SB you'd be least regretful about losing and worst case she leaves you can work to replace her with a $ SB. Then do the same with the next SB until you're at $ with all the SBs that you're seeing. There may be drama, and some or even all may leave when the sugar is cut in half. Just keep in mind this is a hobby for your enjoyment and 2 x the sessions is definitely more enjoyable.

I used to travel to this area on business weekly up until about five months ago. Cincinnati, Cleveland, Flint, MI. Detroit all up in through Ohio and Michigan were hit hardest by the recession. We are talking 20-30% unemployment throughout this region with no end in sight. My point? There is a plethora of young desperate women all through this region unlike anywhere else in the US, I believe. Problem is when I was traveling these areas I was oblivious to this whole sugar bowl thing. I was going with pros and they were EVERYWHERE, Semi-pros, young women needing food, rent paid, utilities, etc. So when I discovered the sugar bowl, first place I looked was up through that area of the country and on the sites there is a huge overflow of young single mothers, and true SB's willing to meet for a low premium. Only problem is, I'm not traveling that way anytime soon. Sure wish I was!

**FeelGoodMd** · 06-12-14 12:39

I was contacted by a POT on SA who lives in St. Louis, saying she liked my profile and is "very submissive. " 24 yo, 5'2", above average looks, but no stunner (and not a spinner). I am no where near MO, and want local girls (she's not my type, anyhow), but I offered to pass along her contact info if anyone "in the community" was interested. She took me up on the offer, so if anyone wants her info (all I have is her SA profile number, but I'm sure she'd give me more if I asked), PM me.

**JZLizard** · 06-12-14 10:48

Originally Posted by FredMoore [View Original Post]

First, what is CVG?

Abbreviation for Cincinatti / North KY area.

**FredMoore** · 06-12-14 09:49

Originally Posted by RedBred [View Original Post]

I am a first-time poster here. I am about halfway through the thread of old posts. I have been working the SD / SB websites in Cincinnati for about 3-4 months. I have a good profile and opening message. I am also having a fairly surprising degree of success (for a married, 60 yo, overweight guy.) In part, my success may be due in part to being overly generous in the beginning. I have been offering $$ per session and typically have sessions lasting 2 hours. After getting friendly in the FC with three different SB's I decided I could sympathetically turn away new offers by lowering my allowance to $. That hasn't worked as some hot-looking and appealing SB's are saying Yes. My problem now is that I really like the SB's I am seeing but my budget is going to limit me to 5-7 sessions per month. If I cut the cost per session in half, I can have twice as many sessions.

I have wrestled with this and I don't see a practical path to reducing my existing SB's allowances without creating some serious drama. Has anybody else found a way to do this? Next, if I do find myself having to cut off some SB's, who are wonderful in every way but price, how do I do it without being a complete asshole? I know I am talking bird-in-the-hand versus bird-in-the-Bush scenario but I've been to the FC with two of the new SB's who are effectively booty calls now but could easily be standards for me.

I also recognize there are several CVG SD's on this thread. I would appreciate their perspectives especially.

RB.

Hey Red, Welcome to the Sugar Blog. First, what is CVG?

Here is my technique for downsizing that worked with one so far. I was paying full offer for several months until I hit a hard stretch. Money was tight yet I wanted to keep seeing her. So I told her that I could not see her any more because of finances, but that I would miss her, etc, blah, blah. After a few weeks of no communication I contacted her and said that I missed her too much and would love to be able to see her if she would consider a lower reimbursement and could only pay $100 / session. She didn't miss a beat and accepted that readily. She isn't the most reliable and I'm sure she is seeing others (and was anyway), but she continues to provide FS when I need it.

The bottom line is money. If you don't bruise their ego and allow them to maintain their self image then they will take your money. She pops over for a 15 min Wham Bam and scores probably $400/ hour in time value, but that is the way she always was anyway. She is a booty call.

**HollywoodGuy** · 06-11-14 23:30

Originally Posted by HollywoodGuy [View Original Post]

This pot is supposed to spend the day tomorrow. 19, 5"7' - home for the summer HCB.

Did the m & g. Cost me 4 dollars. She definitely was thicker than her pic. She didn't seem too interested even though she laughed at all my jokes and drove an hour to see me ( I drove 10 minutes). Spent like 30 minutes drinking tea and left. I told her I thought she was hot and she was a classy NP. Guess my romancing skills are a bit off.

But these girls want something they see as stable, thats probably not the impression I always give, although I told her nothing about my real life.

**HollywoodGuy** · 06-11-14 23:25

It seems to me that most of the hot MILFS want way more than the young girls do. A lot of people will say start with a MILF because they are easier to bed, I don't see it. Their needs are much bigger, at least out here.