"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[JZLizard]

I went to the SD school of hard knocks. No brothers. No forum. Just golddiggers, pros and some good luck as time went on. I may have an mba in sugar dating, but I paid for it. Also I have always focused my CL and SD ads more on sexual fantasy than wine and dine or big money talk. Started out doing that pre-sugar dating on the civi sites. But these girls are much prettier and younger. Although looking back the civi daters were all pretty dirty in the FC. Even bagged a pro for free for months just appealing to her need for some killer sex.

Thinking about it now, maybe I will try POF just to see what happens. Some things never change. I will report back if anything positive happens.

Focusing ads on the sexual fantasy is actually a really good angle. It seems almost counter-intuitive that this would produce as many bites as it does, but from the girls perspective it actually helps her justify what she's doing somewhat (it's only playing around, it's not real, so no need for her to evaluate whether she should be doing it or not from the moral perspective).

There is an entirely different category of SB, though, that is less able to disassociate their real self with sexual play. Some of them are just genuinely attracted to moderate to high-income older guys and see the SD sites as a good place to find their next boyfriend.

For those lucky enough to live in a metro area of around 5 million or more, there's probably enough volume of both types to support bulk mailing them with either approach, and still getting enough bites to keep a person busy. Those like me have to span multiple cities just to even reach that many girls, and even then the collective volume doesn't produce the same results as big cities, because the entire vibe of sexual openness changes for the girl once you put her in a closer knit environment where she feels less anonymous, more noticed and less absorbed by the big city glamour. The other bad part about finding girls in other cities is that many of them see you're not close by and see it as too much trouble / waste of time. I try to help with that by explaining early in my contact mail that I can come to them no problem. It's also a lot of work to search multiple cities and juggle custom searches for each city.

[FredMoore]

It's 100 degrees out today.

Again you rock brother! You are the Microsoft of Sugaring.

[FredMoore]

This has been my exact experience. I often do M&G at a hotel. I've had a few Pots (usually Asian) get skittish with messing around with a married man, but the vast majority of college girls don't have a problem with it at all. I often hear from them, "I admire you that you work so hard for your family.", "It turns me on that you're such a great father", and etc. You got to also remember a lot of these girls have daddy issues...
. We sometimes over-estimate how strong our cover is. So I just go in with the built-in assumption that my cover expires after 6 months and I'm not fully protected at that point.

I reiterate the risk of your SO and the SB's SO and not just the SB. Most babies have a BF or husband, even if they say not. My SO blew my gig up and created a huge mess for me. I think a lot of former (now retired) Brothers ran afoul of this when discovered. The choice is a nasty divorce or put your head down and get the nose chain back in pace.

Also, the SB's BF. My recently flaked SB came over for her weekly fucking about 6 weeks ago. She was pretty severely beat up and to her credit she showed up and delivered. The poor thing was so sore I had to be gentle and rush through things to get my Nutt. She got hers too in spite of it. She claimed her roommate's BF did it to her but in retrospect I think she had a live-in BF she was stepping out on for a few extra bucks.(maybe a pimp?) Maybe I wasn't the only one. (you think LOL?) Right before she went dark she said that she was injured falling down the stairs. Riiiight! It was then clear to me that she is being abused and I wish her the best in getting out of that situation. Hopefully my "advance" helped her get away.

[John G Smith]

I went to the SD school of hard knocks. No brothers. No forum. Just golddiggers, pros and some good luck as time went on. I may have an mba in sugar dating, but I paid for it. Also I have always focused my CL and SD ads more on sexual fantasy than wine and dine or big money talk. Started out doing that pre-sugar dating on the civi sites. But these girls are much prettier and younger. Although looking back the civi daters were all pretty dirty in the FC. Even bagged a pro for free for months just appealing to her need for some killer sex.

Thinking about it now, maybe I will try POF just to see what happens. Some things never change. I will report back if anything positive happens.

Your Wednesday girl is amazing. Well done my man.

As much as I wish I could say I offer girls killer sex, I'm afraid I can't. After over a decade of boring married sex followed by mechanical escort / AMP sex, my sex skills unfortunately are nothing remarkable. I do benefit from being in shape and having a good-sized schlong, but right now I could not make killer sex has a selling point. The sugar bowl especially last year has helped me some get back in my groove. But it's still highly chemistry dependent. With some girls I rock out strong and we have amazing sex. Other girls the chemistry isn't there and I might have performance issues, and in those situations aside from DATY I don't have enough tricks to fall back on to get her off.

Hoping over time, the Sugar Bowl will help me get back some real raw sexual experience. But the only downside to primarily dating 18-24 year-olds, is that they're isn't a ton of sexual experienced to be gained from them, LOL. It's the MILFs who are the ones who really know what to do but they often have little interest in me due to the closeness in age. Though I guess I could give civy dating a try for women my age, not sure if it's worth the hassle though and I'm really addicted to 18-24 year-old hard bodies right now. When you've had a steady diet of college girls it's really hard to find anything else appetizing.

[John G Smith]

I ALWAYS tell every new POT that I am a married man, with kids, and have a professional career. Then I tell them that I expect the utmost discretion from them. Majority of the time, it works very well. I am able to schedule FC actions on the first meet. I rarely do M&G in public places. I occasionally do M&G at a hotel in private, and we know where that leads.

Sometimes, and on very rare occasions, do I have a POT walk because of issues with morals and something about not wanting to break up a family. LOL.

But for the younger POTs, it sometimes work wonders. It turns them on even more. The thoughts of fooling around with a married man and getting fucked crazy by one would send them into overdrive.

This has been my exact experience. I often do M&G at a hotel. I've had a few Pots (usually Asian) get skittish with messing around with a married man, but the vast majority of college girls don't have a problem with it at all. I often hear from them, "I admire you that you work so hard for your family.", "It turns me on that you're such a great father", and etc. You got to also remember a lot of these girls have daddy issues...

But I hear some of you guys about the risk of emotional involvement. However with my CL Teacher SB, while I enjoy talking to her as well as fucking her hot body, I have no desire whatsoever to run away with her or any of that sort. Even if I wasn't married, I probably would just have a short-term civy relationship, but nothing really serious. She'd make a perfect Fuck Buddy or FWB who happens to be hot as hell. We can hang out and talk for hours, but we're not super lovey-dovy.

Actually another motive for telling her I'm married and have kids is to make sure to reaffirm the boundaries. I can't be her boyfriend, so I don't want her to start expecting that. I do want to be good friends and have our own special relationship but with realistic expectations. My main concern is that I could scare her off for "moral" reasons, although that seems unlikely since she's a pretty open-minded girl. The other concern is since she's local, am I prepared for her to find out my identity. I'm always careful, but I also assume any girl I see consistently for over 6 months, will likely figure out my identity with or without my knowledge one way or another.

I know I take a slightly different attitude than others here, but any girl I see consistently for more than 6 months has already been fully vetted by then. I know a lot of her personal info & background, I know if she's a psycho or not. So I'm actually okay if my long-term SB knows my real identity. By then there's usually enough mutually assured destruction that neither one of us will step too far out of line. And the best way to break up with a long-term SD is to gradually have money and time problems, so they breakup with you or just drift apart. This way there's no animosity and it'll be a relatively peaceful break.

I think the black ops cover is primary for the first 3-4 months. By then you should know if they're a Nando1, Psycho, or Clingy. None of these girls should ever have your real identity, so if you see them beyond 6 months, it should be infrequent booty calls at privacy friendly hotels in full black ops cover. But like I said, I assume if you see a girl at least 3 times a month for 6 months, she'll probably know who you are. In that time, you would have seen her 18-20 times, the chances you would have slipped up in your cover at least a couple of times is pretty high. That's why I tend to force retire most SBs after 4-5 months unless I feel they're stable enough to know my identity whether they figure it out or not. We sometimes over-estimate how strong our cover is. So I just go in with the built-in assumption that my cover expires after 6 months and I'm not fully protected at that point.

[HollywoodGuy]

What a beauty.

I either need to go to the same SD school that you went, or pack up and move into your neighborhood. LOL.

I went to the SD school of hard knocks. No brothers. No forum. Just golddiggers, pros and some good luck as time went on. I may have an mba in sugar dating, but I paid for it. Also I have always focused my CL and SD ads more on sexual fantasy than wine and dine or big money talk. Started out doing that pre-sugar dating on the civi sites. But these girls are much prettier and younger. Although looking back the civi daters were all pretty dirty in the FC. Even bagged a pro for free for months just appealing to her need for some killer sex.

Thinking about it now, maybe I will try POF just to see what happens. Some things never change. I will report back if anything positive happens.

[Member #5570]

A little off-topic, but I thought I'd pose a question to the group.

Generally I tell SBs and even Pots that I'm married. It just makes it easier to explain my schedule and she will understand the level of discretion I require from the outset.

I ALWAYS tell every new POT that I am a married man, with kids, and have a professional career. Then I tell them that I expect the utmost discretion from them. Majority of the time, it works very well. I am able to schedule FC actions on the first meet. I rarely do M&G in public places. I occasionally do M&G at a hotel in private, and we know where that leads.

Sometimes, and on very rare occasions, do I have a POT walk because of issues with morals and something about not wanting to break up a family. LOL.

But for the younger POTs, it sometimes work wonders. It turns them on even more. The thoughts of fooling around with a married man and getting fucked crazy by one would send them into overdrive.

[Member #5570]

It's 100 degrees out today.

What a beauty.

I either need to go to the same SD school that you went, or pack up and move into your neighborhood. LOL.

[Member #4025]

It's 100 degrees out today.

I know you work hard for what you enjoy, but none the less, I must say 'you are one lucky guy'.

All the best, #4025.

[HollywoodGuy]

It's 100 degrees out today.

[JZLizard]

What does the clubhouse think? Should I tell her that I'm married and have kids? That way I could at least share with her some of the shit I go through and have more balanced conversations. Or should I keep her at the current local area restrictions and just maintain the status quo of vagueness?

I'd keep the status quo except I'd try to minimize the real connection that's forming -- you're already getting the best she has to offer, connecting emotionally won't make the sex cheaper and only increases risk to your marriage and family. I personally wouldn't let myself get connected (I had one a couple of months ago that was a real risk for that and I had to send her away), but if she's getting connected in a one sided way I would do whatever I can to put some distance in between.

[HollywoodGuy]

A little off-topic, but I thought I'd pose a question to the group.

Generally I tell SBs and even Pots that I'm married. It just makes it easier to explain my schedule and she will understand the level of discretion I require from the outset.

The exception is when I see girls who are very close in my local area. Why do I see girls in my local area? Because while it raises risks in certain ways, it reduces risks in other ways because I don't have to sneak off for long trips, I'm able to do meetups on shorter notice, and I save money overall. And I live in a big enough metro area that even my local area has close to half a million people in a 20 mile radius. Having said that, I'm still very careful with information I disclose to the local girls. With local girls I usually keep my relationship status vague and everything is pretty much "Don't ask, don't tell" with my personal life. A girl who lives over a hour away is very unlikely to cause trouble or go snooping on a whim. Most of them are too lazy and broke to go through the effort. But if a girl is a local, she could get to snooping pretty easily if she gets bored one night without too much trouble. That's why I'm vague with them and usually tell them I live a few cities away even if I'm only a few blocks away.

Now the problem I have is my CL Teacher SB. We're starting to have a real connection, but I've never come out and told her that I'm married and have kids. She's never asked and I never told her. But I'm finding it hard to have certain conversations with her because I can't tell her about my weekend or I'm having to redact huge portions of my day when we're having simple conversations. Meanwhile she has been extremely open with me about herself and the people in her life. Of course I'm not going to tell her any direct personal identifying details, but I do have the urge to at least disclose the typical info I give to non-local SBs. We're coming up on almost 6 months of seeing each other and things have really picked up lately. It's not easy to find a LT ATF and I think I may have found one, so I'd like to open up at least just a little bit.

What does the clubhouse think? Should I tell her that I'm married and have kids? That way I could at least share with her some of the shit I go through and have more balanced conversations. Or should I keep her at the current local area restrictions and just maintain the status quo of vagueness?

If she doesn't ask, then don't tell. She doesn't want to know. Why spoil the fantasy?

[FredMoore]

A little off-topic, but I thought I'd pose a question to the group.

Generally I tell SBs and even Pots that I'm married. It just makes it easier to explain my schedule and she will understand the level of discretion I require from the outset.

What does the clubhouse think? Should I tell her that I'm married and have kids? That way I could at least share with her some of the shit I go through and have more balanced conversations. Or should I keep her at the current local area restrictions and just maintain the status quo of vagueness?

Tell her. The only risk is if she sees you as an IRL potential BF. Otherwise I have found that these little vixens only care about your checkbook. Now I realize that we each can develop feelings for the other, but did you ever try taking the Sugar off the table? I have and POOOOOF! Gone with the wind. You will get even closer to each other undoing the secrecy veil. She can find you if she wants to anyway.

[SkinJr]

So I text 22 year old latina spinner from yesterday to confirm our time tomorrow. She replies back immediately yes. Several minutes go by and she says "so I'm going to need 1000 cash. Is that reasonable for you.".

After dying from laughter, I reply "no. Sorry. It is not". She comes back with "what were you thinking?

I decide what the hell, I give her a list of what I've been paying. How the freak massage therapist will drive an hour to see me and fuck my brains out for 2 hours for this dollar amount, how another got $ a pop but we did it almost every day which is about 2000 a month, how another got 1 k a month no matter how many times we fucked and she always called me looking the the. So I ended it with "I'm a good looking guy, I'm a good fuck, and I will never hurt you unless you want me to".

I haven't heard back yet. Haha. She must have forgot that the cost of living is cheaper here in NC than NJ.

[John G Smith]

A little off-topic, but I thought I'd pose a question to the group.

Generally I tell SBs and even Pots that I'm married. It just makes it easier to explain my schedule and she will understand the level of discretion I require from the outset.

The exception is when I see girls who are very close in my local area. Why do I see girls in my local area? Because while it raises risks in certain ways, it reduces risks in other ways because I don't have to sneak off for long trips, I'm able to do meetups on shorter notice, and I save money overall. And I live in a big enough metro area that even my local area has close to half a million people in a 20 mile radius. Having said that, I'm still very careful with information I disclose to the local girls. With local girls I usually keep my relationship status vague and everything is pretty much "Don't ask, don't tell" with my personal life. A girl who lives over a hour away is very unlikely to cause trouble or go snooping on a whim. Most of them are too lazy and broke to go through the effort. But if a girl is a local, she could get to snooping pretty easily if she gets bored one night without too much trouble. That's why I'm vague with them and usually tell them I live a few cities away even if I'm only a few blocks away.

Now the problem I have is my CL Teacher SB. We're starting to have a real connection, but I've never come out and told her that I'm married and have kids. She's never asked and I never told her. But I'm finding it hard to have certain conversations with her because I can't tell her about my weekend or I'm having to redact huge portions of my day when we're having simple conversations. Meanwhile she has been extremely open with me about herself and the people in her life. Of course I'm not going to tell her any direct personal identifying details, but I do have the urge to at least disclose the typical info I give to non-local SBs. We're coming up on almost 6 months of seeing each other and things have really picked up lately. It's not easy to find a LT ATF and I think I may have found one, so I'd like to open up at least just a little bit.

What does the clubhouse think? Should I tell her that I'm married and have kids? That way I could at least share with her some of the shit I go through and have more balanced conversations. Or should I keep her at the current local area restrictions and just maintain the status quo of vagueness?