"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[Looking16]

the girls are here to make money and you will never meet one in real life.

I agree with the fact it will not be me. Not enough cash or game. From reading so many of the stories in this thread about young sb's with older men, we all know it can and does happen regularly. And yes with girls from the aforementioned site it is also possible. More than likely the strike-out avg would be high for sure but some are only one step away from sb status.

The biggest advantage is seeing them live on screen and can decide in short time whether to pursue.

They are all in 'need of money' and would love a much easier life style.

Again just my honest opinion.

[ChiGuy606]

I already knew where she worked, almost exactly where she lived, and it was clear that I could at least make life very complicated for her if I wanted to. During our heart-to-heart, I mentioned this and assured her that I had no desire to or interest in doing anything remotely like that. But the fact remained that I'd really only be comfortable if there were some "Mutually Assured Destruction" dynamic in place.

So we traded peeks at our I'd's, and rather than a hotel I took her to my guaranteed-to-be-empty-for-the-duration house. This introduced new dimensions to deep cover-leaving no trace in the house, not attracting notice of neighbors, etc. Having her there was a weird mix of relief yet new stress. So future home visits will be very rare. But in this specific case it made it much easier for me to maintain appearances.

Mr Walrus,

Forgive me if what I am about to say sounds harsh, but honestly I really do think you need to re-examine your situation and what you are attempting to do to your life in the short / mid / long-term.

From an outsiders perspective this looks to me like the actions of someone who secretly is wishing to get caught. Perhaps that is the case & obviously none of us here on this board has picture-perfect marriages, if we did we wouldn't be here right?

However let me just ask you to be honest with yourself & suggest that if ending your marriage is indeed something you deep down wish to do, there are a lot cheaper & less embarrassing avenues to go about it than be caught in an affair!

Let's give your Sugar-baby the 100% benefit of the doubt for a moment. She rates as high as possible on the Nando-scale & she truly is one of the hidden gems out there right?

You made a not-so-overt threat against her prior to disclosing your identity with the concept of "Mutually assured destruction" to keep you safe. Here is how the dynamic of your "MAD" standoff works at present:

You are holding a pair of dull chopsticks to her throat, and she has a sawed-off 12 gauge pointed at your crotch!

She has SO MUCH less to loose than you do, it's not even funny!

Now go into the bathroom, look yourself directly in the mirror & repeat this phrase 10 times:

"This is a woman who fucks guys for money"

"This is a woman who fucks guys for money"

"This is a woman who fucks guys for money"

"This is a woman who fucks guys for money"

"This is a woman who fucks guys for money"

"This is a woman who fucks guys for money"

"This is a woman who fucks guys for money"

"This is a woman who fucks guys for money"

"This is a woman who fucks guys for money"

"This is a woman who fucks guys for money"

This one completely has you by the short & curly hairs & you are just giving it to her willingly.

My man, if I were you I would hope beyond hope she really is one of the 'cool' ones and try to end this as softly as possible & then try (pray) that you can walk away. Hell, you may even have to sell your house & move to another city. I would turn this into a platonic friendship as soon as possible & you may even have to keep the sugar going for a while to lighten the blow with her.

Conversely, you may need to start doing things to make her be the one to want to break it off. That would be your ideal out right now. Perhaps stop showering for a few days before each date? Show up drunk to EVERY meeting. Confess to her our hidden desire for 'golden showers / scat play'. Find out a way to get yourself a permanent case of E. D. (Perhaps by watching large quantities of Hungarian Grandmother porn prior to each encounter?) , so that each 'sexual' encounter turns into an embarrassing / awkward situation for both of you. Etc Etc.

Whatever it takes man, but honestly I do not see a happy ending in your future if you continue down this path.

Again, I apologize for sounding harsh. It is not my intention to judge you unfairly. I simply want you to come out of this with your skin intact!

-Chi

[Binder79]

It's just a different front for Streamate, and a dozen other cam model sites with internet models from camsharks, KGB studios and others. If you want a live sex show, the gold shows might be a good value, but don't fool yourself, the girls are here to make money and you will never meet one in real life.

[Looking16]

Looks like you have to leave a CC # to log in. Says they won't charge it. Whats up with that?

Hollywood, That is true yes. I have a card registered with the site and have used it on occasion. Sometimes I have no will power and girls seduce me into their bowl. .

Once registered you are free to browse and chat with girls on the site free of charge. Pay only when you choose to go 'private'.

[HollywoodGuy]

I have found this (new to me) web site called you jizz live dot com.

Looks like you have to leave a CC # to log in. Says they won't charge it. Whats up with that?

[Spartak]

I have found this (new to me) web site called you jizz live dot com. You have to be a member to chat with these beauties, who are from many parts of the world but mostly Eastern Europe, Russia, Latvia, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Hungary, etc. And USA. The age range is 18 to? But mostly at the younger range and you do not necessarily have to pay the outrageous minute to minute fare. Some of them (not all!) are very willing to chat for long periods of time for no pay (and I always am truthful of my age) , even though the admin's at that site do not appreciate free chat at all. Actually the cam girls portion of the fare is a very minimal amount. They are working, often completely naked and doing practically anything you want for a horrendously small amount of hourly pay. I'm telling you some of these girls are absolutely beautiful AND in need of money!

The reason I bring all this up is I am guessing some of these girls could be enticed into the Sugar Bowl by a few of the regular contributors of this thread. A little 'game' is needed. But the rewards could be gratifying.

I'm just not sure that for some bb's the step from camgirl to sb is too big a step and implies more than they are willing to accept?

I spend alot of time in southeastern europe for work, and have been in Russia, Czech Rep, and Ukraine as well. There is actually a much higher likelihood that girls there would accept a sb / sd relationship. They actually refer to it as being "sponsored". The problem is that the odds of getting a tourist visa for any of them to visit you here is practically zero. That means going there for the reward. Which is not as challenging or expensive as it sounds, but you're limited to relatively short relationships.

[Looking16]

As a relatively long time member of this forum, mostly with posts in the Northeast and a bit in Montreal & Las Vegas. I have just found this SB thread in the last 3 or 4 days. I've gone back on this sb thread and read for hours. I am soaking it up like a sponge. Great material. I'm 67 and would love being a SD to a gorgeous young bb. Wish I had the cash and the 'game' to become a full fledged member. Though not going to happen. I will stick with my $160 an hr. Asian BP girls.

About a year ago at Harrah's in Atlantic City I had the privilege of playing a crap table that happened to also have a man of about 70 or so who was no doubt 'with' arm in arm a beautiful young bb of about 25. I felt he was the luckiest sob I had seen in a very long time. She was gorgeous but not overdressed at all, with the GND look. The thought of that older guy with her has been in my memory bank since that night. .

Anyway to the subject of the above title.

I have found this (new to me) web site called you jizz live dot com. You have to be a member to chat with these beauties, who are from many parts of the world but mostly Eastern Europe, Russia, Latvia, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Hungary, etc. And USA. The age range is 18 to? But mostly at the younger range and you do not necessarily have to pay the outrageous minute to minute fare. Some of them (not all!) are very willing to chat for long periods of time for no pay (and I always am truthful of my age), even though the admin's at that site do not appreciate free chat at all. Actually the cam girls portion of the fare is a very minimal amount. They are working, often completely naked and doing practically anything you want for a horrendously small amount of hourly pay. I'm telling you some of these girls are absolutely beautiful AND in need of money!

The reason I bring all this up is I am guessing some of these girls could be enticed into the Sugar Bowl by a few of the regular contributors of this thread. A little 'game' is needed. But the rewards could be gratifying.

I'm just not sure that for some bb's the step from camgirl to sb is too big a step and implies more than they are willing to accept?

Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in. Also will continue to read this thread with enthusiasm.

Looking16

[Walruscl]

Wow, WTF? What kind of scumbag would do that? I mean really, even if the SD was sincere (which is a stretch), there are all sorts of reasons for either party to want to bail. In which case the SD goes his merry way and the SB is out of a job.

Hopefully she was smart enough to see through that before too much damage occurred.

Just, wow.

Very true. The 19 yod that I had the M&G with said that the first guy she met made LOTS of promises and never delivered. Told her to quit her job and he'd cover her with an allowance which never materialized.

[Walruscl]

What's interesting about this is the different experiences and perspectives we bring. BigTigger you are one of the superstars, and seem to have pretty much done and seen it all. So you've seen the types of SB's for which full disclosure would be suicide. Understandable then that would be just somewhere you'd never want to go.

In my short experience, I've come across one UTR, a pair of seemingly-harmless MILFs that I just couldn't quite get comfortable with, a HCB that also seemed "off" and then I think got cold feet, a number of GPS's the were stillborn early, and another young MILF that was almost to closing the deal when I overreacted to a situation that really didn't seem right.

On the last one, I'm still not sure whether it was an overreaction or my BS detector being turned up and actually getting a positive reading. I know that when I did more due diligence, she hadn't done sufficient deep cover to prevent me from finding her Facebook page. What I found there was disturbing enough that I'm glad it fell through. Even if it had proceeded, I don't think I ever would have had an inclination to break cover with her.

With my current (and yes, only) SB, I just got none of those vibes at all. Hopefully my usually-reliable judge of personality is still on target.

I'm glad to hear the insights. It's sounding like the community opinion is that while it was a really risky thing to do, breaking cover with the right SB is not automatically fatal.

Now that is something that I would never do. Now mind you, that list is very short, but it's definitely on there. I will say this out of all the ones I've been with. 4, I have given my real info to and 2 have gotten it either by taking advantage of minimal information I gave them or by being sneaky and going through my items.

One case she decided she didn't want to continue and in the other case she was my extorionist! I will give my first

BT.

[LoriTruck]

Any SD's near Louisville, KY message me asap for a potential gold mine.

[BikeRider]

I thought I'd post a short bit on doing SB diligence.

I've seen several posts where brothers have google'd names, phone numbers, email addresses, and images as part of their diligence process. This is easy with Spokeo and a number of other services. Another aspect of diligence is determining if your SB is really where she says she is. I've caught more than a few on AM who were half-way around the world from where they say they were located.

Yahoo right now is the only major email system where you can trace the sender's IP address. Although, I've noticed that some times even Yahoo is now blocking the sender's IP. What isn't widely known is that you can easily geo-locate with Skype. Just google 'skype resolver' and you'll see a few web sites listed. I use skype2ip. Org myself. Skype has a little known issue where you can usually determine a user name's last IP address. This easily gives you the location via any number of geo-location databases. Skype2IP has a link you hit and brings up a map.

One important point is that the geo-location of the IP address some times isn't all that accurate. It may point the main office of Comcast or Verizon at times. If that happens, there are other ways to verify a general location with an IP address. If there's, interest I can post more info.

The most important aspect though is to remember that this can be done to YOU just as easily. This is the main reason why I VPN (Witopia or PIA) ALL of the time. $70 / yr is cheap insurance.

BR

[BikeRider]

Flakes have a direct correlation to young new listers. I have lost 3 18 to 19 yr olds in the last month. I swore I wouldn't do teens anymore but they are so irresistible. The new posters get a huge amount of attention from us all. We all know to jump on them fast and hard. Also for me it is nice to break one in if she is truly naive. The scenario is probably the same for us all. You chat them up quickly and text back and forth. Then you make a M&G appointment all within a week. The day of the meet she goes silent. 3 times I tell you this month! Everything seems perfect and she says she is excited to meet, and boom! Gone. I agree with Hollywood that you have got to meet them in the first day or two. They get cold feet, get a million other offers, and blow you off. Many of them come back around because they find the grass is not greener with the fantastical offers. Mr Big bangs them and moves on. Those of us who are looking for longer term SBs have to wait out the flush before they circle back around.

Very true. The 19 yod that I had the M&G with said that the first guy she met made LOTS of promises and never delivered. Told her to quit her job and he'd cover her with an allowance which never materialized. She said almost didn't come back to the site, but decided to do so one last time. We're still in contact I've switched to a longer game just in case she doesn't go to NYC.

[BikeRider]

I feel you on the Flakes brother. I have always been the want it here now, and I want more type of person. So flakes have been a great character builder for me.

They have always frustrated me. I was on SA but found too many crazies and pros. I prefer SDFORme but the flake factor can be high. The younger the higher the flakes, the hotter the higher the flakes, the newer to the game the higher the flakes. Many times it is just a hot chick getting a better offer. Imagine what it would be like if you were young beautiful immature and guys were making you all kinds of offers all over the place. What would you do?

It is a challenge. I have fucked a lot of them and still go into phases where they just don't seem to respond well. So yes tune up your game. Stay confident and remember. There will be another 100 more babies on that site tomorrow. And the next day and the next.

I need to learn more from Hollywood on qualifying and getting that part right.

Good luck. Keep writing.

Revvo

Well said on all points. We call can learn from Hollywood.

Interestingly enough the 26 yod that vanished reappeared last night. Evidently an emergency back home (west coast). She broke her Google Voice cloak and txt'd me from her real phone number so I'm pretty sure its legit.

The other bonus here is she's not looking for sugar. She has a professional job, her own condo, and car. She just wants a little romance and passion without complications.

[BigTigger]

Now that is something that I would never do. Now mind you, that list is very short, but it's definitely on there. I will say this out of all the ones I've been with. 4, I have given my real info to and 2 have gotten it either by taking advantage of minimal information I gave them or by being sneaky and going through my items.

One case she decided she didn't want to continue and in the other case she was my extorionist! I will give my first

BT.

Well, as I said, I wouldn't recommend that anyone follow my footsteps. But your insights are worthwhile and helpful, and your good luck with previous SB's is reassuring.

Waiting for an argument is a good idea. I did a rather pale imitation of that during our heart-to-heart, where I asked her what her reaction would be if I told her right now that I wasn't able to continue the relationship. While it's not as good as the argument litmus test, the response I got seemed sincere and was reassuring.

As for showing where I lived, there were at least short-term reasons to do that. And long-term, once she knew my rather unique last name, everything about me is a quick Google away. Since there would be very little uncertainty, I opted for trust-building in hopes that when eventually things wind down, it's a soft landing.

Also good advice is to bring things to closure on friendly terms. Failing that, she will be vulnerable to my knowledge of her personal history for some time to come. The calculated risk is that by the time that leverage fades, so would any interest on her part to make trouble for me.

I'll be the first to admit that I may very well come to regret this decision. Should that come to pass, I can only hope that it will be in the form of stress and damage control rather than the triggering of a thermonuclear event.

But as you say, the risks are plenty, and comfort zones vary.

Thanks much for offering your insights. Wish me luck.

[Walruscl]

Well, as I said, I wouldn't recommend that anyone follow my footsteps. But your insights are worthwhile and helpful, and your good luck with previous SB's is reassuring.

Waiting for an argument is a good idea. I did a rather pale imitation of that during our heart-to-heart, where I asked her what her reaction would be if I told her right now that I wasn't able to continue the relationship. While it's not as good as the argument litmus test, the response I got seemed sincere and was reassuring.

As for showing where I lived, there were at least short-term reasons to do that. And long-term, once she knew my rather unique last name, everything about me is a quick Google away. Since there would be very little uncertainty, I opted for trust-building in hopes that when eventually things wind down, it's a soft landing.

Also good advice is to bring things to closure on friendly terms. Failing that, she will be vulnerable to my knowledge of her personal history for some time to come. The calculated risk is that by the time that leverage fades, so would any interest on her part to make trouble for me.

I'll be the first to admit that I may very well come to regret this decision. Should that come to pass, I can only hope that it will be in the form of stress and damage control rather than the triggering of a thermonuclear event.

But as you say, the risks are plenty, and comfort zones vary.

Thanks much for offering your insights. Wish me luck.

Walruscl. Yes, it's been mentioned that with Long Term SBs, it's very likely they'll eventually find out your real identity. Either there will be a slip-up on your part, hotel receipts, car registration, and etc or you'll just flat out tell her. If you know her personality type (a non-vindictive person) and there's mutually assured destruction, then disclosing IDs can be a non-lethal risk. And you really shouldn't do such disclosures until you've had your first argument, so you know how she acts when she's agitated or upset with you. And even then, I wouldn't show my LT SB directly where I live / work. I'll still let her try to figure it out, so there's some degree of uncertainty.

I've had three SBs know my real identity. Two were long-term SBs and one was a resourceful Pot SB who found a chink in my cover. With the two LT SBs I never had any problems and I had a lot of info on them as well. With one of them we've remained good friends and I know she would never do anything to harm me or my family. I had some info on the Pot SB, but I wasn't really comfortable with that situation so I quietly let her lose interest in me.

Once you cross the line and a SB knows your identity, then you MUST make sure when the arrangement / relationship ends that it's mostly on good terms. And even if the breakup is a bit rocky initially, you need to make sure you smooth things over within a couple of months so there's no lingering bitterness. After all, once a SB knows your identity she can theoretically pop into your life unannounced at a moment's notice at any time. A month from now or 2-3 years from now. And you never know, a nice girl today could end up being a Nando1 a few years from now. That's why so many guys here say NEVER blow your cover because there's no going back. There will always be a liability hanging out there.

That said, I totally feel you about the headaches of basically maintaining two covers. It's why despite the advice in this thread, once I'm with a LT SB who I trust more or less, I let her know my real name and do limited disclosures. It just makes my time together with her a lot more relaxing and less stressful. Generally with a LT SB, I may spend the whole day with them and it's just much easier not having to hide hotel bills, paying for alcohol, watching how I refer to myself in conversations, and etc. It's a definite risk, but we're all taking risks when we enter this lifestyle. It's just about the type of risks you're comfortable with accepting and avoiding unnecessary risks. The latter is subjective though. One man's necessary risk is another man's foolish errand.