"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[FeelGoodMd]

A recent experience I had seems worth mentioning in the context of recent posts. I have still been communicating with my first SB, and still my favorite, who moved out of state (about 150 miles away) for grad school. We had seen each other once since then, when she was home for a family wedding, and were making plans last Friday to see each other again. She had never asked for a specific amount of money for our meetings, in fact had never asked about money at all. That is one of the reasons I liked her (and was more generous with her than with others). She had told me I was her first, and still only, SD (truth? Lie? Who knows).

In planning her visit, I told her I'd give her my usual gift plus an extra $ for gas money since she was making the trip specifically to see me (if I was making the trip in my V8 pickup, I'd probably spend about. 8 in gas round trip). She texted back with "how about $$?" After 10 minutes of silence from my end, she added "times are tough."

I texted back to ask whether she thought I wasn't generous enough, and she texted "I need the usual plus $$ to come down."

Another 30 minutes of silence on my end brought "don't you think I'm worth it?" Based on the exchange to that point, I was already considering burning that bridge. After that response, I made the decision. My answer to her: "Sugar Babies accept gifts, prostitutes set prices. Before you text me back, you need to decide which you are."

Needless to say, I haven't heard back from her. I don't expect to.

Sometimes, you have to dismiss a patient. It's a regrettable, but necessary, part of practicing in this specialty.

Dr. Feelgood

[SubCmdr]

I am not judging anyone. I am not attacking anyone. I just expressed an opinion and I'm just trying to understand. I asked a question. Others have answered it. I appreciate that. And don't get me wrong. I LOVE this fucking forum. (pun intended) It has opened my eyes to an entire world of pussy I did not even know existed.

Ok, I think I get it. Lying to the wife protects the original arrangement. Keeping the explicit or implicit agreement to all others allows you to continue to drill deep in all of the holes of your personal ho. Yes, take care of you first. Makes sense to me. I can't hate on you for that. I really don't give a damn if anyone posts pictures or not. I'm not going to post any pictures here because the unstated culture of this particular forum frowns upon it.

I work for the government. When you take that dollar out of my pocket without my permission. Don't tell me you 'misappropriated my funds'. No mother fucker 'you just stole from me! 'My point is there is no reason to claim that pursuit of the babies is a higher calling than picking up street meat. I'm saying simply call a garden tool a garden tool. It does not matter if you buy it at Home Depot or Tiffany's or what fancy name you choose to call it. It is still a garden tool and you will still use it to dig in the dirt.

"

Yes! I have always maintained that this pursuit is prostitution no matter how you want to color it. Perhaps it is a kinder and gentler version. But it is what it is and we all have to live with that. Particularly the young girls who try to deny that fact while taking our money and our semen (ouch! That was harsh wasn't it?).

Just give to me straight no chase. Look me straight in my face and just tell it like it is!

SubCmdr out

[HollywoodGuy]

I am single. I always have a few regular girls and I make sure that they all know about each other. And also that I will hook-up with a few random girls a month as well. This have a pseudo type marriage of sorts. I tell the girls I am married. To my job and my hobby. That I am a girl addict. Nothing they do or say is going to change that. So what kind of girl would be willing to join in this type of relationship?

1. The curious.

2. The ones that think they can change me.

3. The ones that like that I have proven my ability to support multiple women.

4. The ones that think I am a stud.

5. The ones that don't want someone too clingy.

6. The ones that are grateful for any decent guys attention.

7. The ones that want to learn to be utr, pros or sugar babbies.

I do not search out any BP or known pro girls. But some non-pro girls do eventually advance their careers so to speak.

I do not see being married in the traditional sense as being a problem to having a good sb relationship. Some girls will pass on that for sure. And there are ones that will pass on you if you are not married. I always say you can't be everything to everyone. So why try. And this is why I am not married. As a husband I was very demanding. Expecting my wife to provide everything in every way. This is not a reasonable expectation. With a wife and a sugar baby or having multiple sugar babies I can divide the expectations between them. I believe that there are women that feel the same way, want the same thing or are at least willing to compromise the dream of the knight in shining armor to get a piece of the pie.

Kinda rambling but hopefully I made a point or two. In the 20 years I was married I was always honest with whoever I was cheating with about my marital status.

After having spoken to many girls about this topic and other sensitive issues. Almost universally they tell me they appreciate me being upfront with the info so they can make an intelligent decision about what they want out of the relationship and with out the bullshit or uncertainty. Women are pretty good bs detectors when it comes to other girls, relationships or any kind of lying in matters of the heart.

[Hernando]

" babies prefer a married daddy, since we are "safe" and won't be looking to mess their real lives up " ala F Scott.

Each sb and sd has our own needs and rationalizes them in a way that preserves our sanity and dignity. My SB did not want a guy who could interfere with her real life. She made it clear when the shit hit the fan that I was not EVER going to be introduced to Mom, Dad, Sisters, or friends. Therefore I knew my place in her life. On the other hand, she made me feel like the only man in her world and that was good enough for me. She in fact, was THE perfect SB. When the double dose of shit hit the fan and she was outed to her family and work associates then she tossed me aside like yesterday's chopped liver. So it sure busted my bubble of hope that she really could be an IRL girlfriend. NOT!

" I understand that we all need to engage in a certain amount of rationalization to get though life. But do we have to do it here? In this Forum? Where we use the euphemism of 'Sugar Baby' and 'Sugar Daddy' to sweeten the bitter reality of what we are all doing?" ala Subcmdr

Yes! I have always maintained that this pursuit is prostitution no matter how you want to color it. Perhaps it is a kinder and gentler version. But it is what it is and we all have to live with that. Particularly the young girls who try to deny that fact while taking our money and our semen (ouch! That was harsh wasn't it?).

[Zomby]

I don't log into this forum to read about love stories. I log in to read the latest fuck story or how the latest attempt to fuck went wrong.

What's wrong with the sexcapade stories?

Not a damn thing. While I personally prefer stories that are more than just chest thumping, I also recognize that there is an element of that in almost all of the posts here, including my own, and that not everyone feels the way I do. Since I get to choose what I read and don't read, just like everyone else, I don't see any problem.

A post from a married SD's who states that posting pictures violates the SD / SB arrangement.

Well, to be fair, I only stated that it would be a violation of my arrangement, and that I thought others might feel the same way. For those who don't feel that way or who have babies who don't mind, I'm certainly not going to suggest that such pictures should be forbidden or anything like that.

Makes me say hmmm. As I wonder aloud what he thinks of his original arrangement. Yeah, the one that he made with his wife. LOL.

As to this, I can only advise, again, that you check your premises.

Seriously Gentlemen. Have we become so enamored with our sugar baby pursuits as to forget that what we are really doing is asking 'regular' women to become our personal ho's?

Well, personally, I see nothing wrong with wanting, and taking reasonable precautions, to preserve a relationship where I get some of the best pussy I've ever had, from a girl who enjoys it (or fakes it really well) and doesn't want much from me aside from some financial help. Sure, it's going to end some day, but until that day comes, I'm going to do my best to not piss her off by posting a picture in a public place, pronouncing that she's my "personal ho". True as it may be, I see no good coming from it aside from the titillation of people whose good opinions mean much less to me than hers. That last isn't intended to be an insult, just a statement of fact.

/z

[SubCmdr]

I don't log into this forum to read about love stories. I log in to read the latest fuck story or how the latest attempt to fuck went wrong.

What's wrong with the sexcapade stories?

Let's see. The Forum has taken an interesting turn of late.

I've read:

A post disparaging those who make 'notching' posts.

A post that says: I pay women to fuck me; I'm honest; I prefer not to lie; and I am married.

A post from a married SD's who states that posting pictures violates the SD / SB arrangement. Makes me say hmmm. As I wonder aloud what he thinks of his original arrangement. Yeah, the one that he made with his wife. LOL.

Seriously Gentlemen. Have we become so enamored with our sugar baby pursuits as to forget that what we are really doing is asking 'regular' women to become our personal ho's?

I understand that we all need to engage in a certain amount of rationalization to get though life. But do we have to do it here? In this Forum? Where we use the euphemism of 'Sugar Baby' and 'Sugar Daddy' to sweeten the bitter reality of what we are all doing?

I read some very practical reasons why photos are not posted in this Forum. But I've also read some outrageous ones that border on complete delusion. Like the posts proclaiming the higher nature of the Sugar Baby / Sugar Daddy relationship. Posts that show concern for the poor sugar baby that might be outed someday. (Ask Hernando if not posting a picture helped with that). Concern that we might loose access to some pussy that we are paying for. LOL I cannot even keep a straight face while I write this. And find myself rolling on the floor laughing when I read such things.

Am I missing something here? As they say in talk radio: 'I'll take my answer off the air'

SubCmdr out!

[HollywoodGuy]

Re: Pictures.

If I was dealing with semi-Pros or UTR girls I might be inclined to post pictures. But most of the babies I'm dealing with are just regular girls.

For us married guys, we have to be a bit more cautious than you single SDs.

I obviously enjoy looking at the pics in the other Non-Pro topics, but I'm perfectly fine with this topic not having pictures. This topic is more story driven, than picture driven. And I think it fits the SD / SB lifestyle.

I am starting to appreciate the theme on this thread. And thanks for the insight.

While I have done a lot of sd. Ing. I also do a lot of utr girls. And of course I am not in your area. And yes I am single. So observing what other people do and stirring the pot once in a while is the only way for me to learn anything. Thanks again.

[John G Smith]

Re: Pictures.

If I was dealing with semi-Pros or UTR girls I might be inclined to post pictures. But most of the babies I'm dealing with are just regular girls. Okay maybe I'm using the term "regular" a bit loosely, but many of them aren't hiding their real identities or facebook profiles and they're not trying to make a business of out of this. They're basically girls who have regular lives that they are willing to suppress some of their morals to have an older guy make things easier for them. But they're not living out of hotels, posting CL / BP ads, or seeing dozens of "clients" UTR. Just as I expect my SB to be discreet with any information they know about me, I'm going to respect their privacy and I'm not going to post their picture (even with their face blurred) on a public sex site. IMO, it's a violation of the discretion part of the agreement.

Also another reason is that I don't want to risk exposing myself either. Many of us (and the lurkers who read this forum) fish from the same sugar baby ponds. If I post a picture of a SB, someone else could still recognize her, contact her, and point them to this topic. All of a sudden my forum postings here could be linked to my real world. You risk your anonymity by posting pics of SBs who frequent sugar daddy sites. For us married guys, we have to be a bit more cautious than you single SDs. Especially since in this particular topic, we post A LOT of details about our various escapades. I think it's best for most of us to leave a little ambiguity by keeping our posts literary driven. As it is, we use nick / code names for our SBs in this topic, unlike the LA Non-Pro topics, which post real names.

I obviously enjoy looking at the pics in the other Non-Pro topics, but I'm perfectly fine with this topic not having pictures. This topic is more story driven, than picture driven. And I think it fits the SD / SB lifestyle.

[F Scott]

Gentlemen, and especially members of my local chapter,

I feel I need to post up this short message, alerting you that apparently I have been single-handedly pruning the Chicago tree of Baby deadwood. I have just had the most bizaare email exchange with a baby I met for the first time yesterday, and with whom by both accounts I had a wonderful coffee hour. A follow-up text from her re-iterated this, and closed with promises of more good times to come. I swear I am not making this up!

Today I got one of the chillier slap-downs I have ever received, totally unprovoked, in my mind, by anything I had said earlier. I hadn't even emailed or contacted her in any way since our meeting yesterday, and am greeted, in part, by sentences such as this," I am not the sort of person who can have that sort of connection with an older man, money involved or no." Ok, overlooking the repetition of the word "sort", why the fuck did you respond to me in the first place? Why did you send me 17 long emails telling me about your entire life up to now, closing with tender endearments? Why, at the base of it all, are you on SA? You're not going to meet your hubby here! We're called "daddies" and "babies" for a reason, get it?

I will spare you the additional bewildering emails from her, but suffice it to say that, by my count, since I rejoined SA three or so months ago, I have personally weeded out 6 psychos, or Conflicted Babies, who have cancelled their profiles after encountering me, sometimes only once, but not after dumping some crazy shit on me! It truly makes a man wonder what kind of world we live in. Do they think we will pay them just to hang out with us? I'm not that desperate ... yet! Thank God for Polo and Brit, and my Asheville nursery. Honestly!

Anyway, no real value here other than humor, I hope, except to say I feel more than ever we must love the pursuit as much as the prize. I find it ironic that I have this experience immediately after I post my thoughts below about honesty. I swear I am totally upfront about my situation, what I'm looking for, what I am willing to do, and what I expect in return, but in a very polite way! Maybe it has something to do with the economy?

Peace,

Scott

PS - I'm not a bad-looking guy, right Mandy?

[F Scott]

Gentlemen,

This whole "married or not" discussion goes back to my earlier observation that the Bowl allows us to be completely honest, upfront and unvarnished, which I for one find liberating and exciting. A married SD is not for every baby, and that's fine. Some mention it right in their texts, and so I do not even bother to contact them.

I wear a wedding ring all the time, in fact I'm not sure I could get it off at this point, so there's no use, even if I wanted to, for me to pretend otherwise.

I've met with a few babies who then decide, so they say, that they just can't get past it. True or not, I always reply that I appreciate their letting me know, as opposed to just vanishing, and wish them luck.

One of these has come back a month or so later and, after complimenting me on the politeness of my response, wanted to give it another try. Ultimately, it did lead to some playtime, but in the end I just wasn't all that into her.

If you are married but keeping it hidden, maybe the short term babies will never know, or care, but if you happen to hit on a great, long-term situation, you'll have some 'splainin' to do, and it could just fuck the whole thing up.

This is, of course, my feeling on the matter. As has been pointed out, some babies prefer a married daddy, since we are "safe" and won't be looking to mess their lives up. Some, I believe, even find it a turn-on: they are getting something "forbidden". If only they knew, LOL!

Have a great weekend, my brothers. Still no news worth printing on this end, but the situation continues to look rosier and rosier.

Keep up the good work,

Scott

[Ampboner]

Timely post. I actually planned to talk about this very subject.

On my SA profile I clearly state I'm married and within the actual text of the profile I mention it again and that I'm looking for a "discreet" relationship. This definitely cuts down on the responses I receive. Some SBs have a problem with it morally or they're worried about the possible drama, which might come their way. Also I've noticed Asian SBs tend to be more reluctant to see married men than most in my experience.

Even still I generally believe in full disclosure when it comes to this. I need the SB on day one to understand the need for discretion. By mentioning these things in my profile, I generally get responses from SBs who are already prepared for a "Behind Closed Doors" arrangement. Also they would figure it out that I'm married / attached pretty soon when I never answer their voice calls, never invite them to my place, or by my very restrictive schedule. And believe it or not I don't like lying, so I try to keep it to a minimum. I think an arrangement is less stressful when both parties know exactly what they're dealing with.

That said, I am running an experiment on SD4Me. I'm saying I'm divorced on my profile to hopefully improve the initial response rate and to avoid the marriage predators. Then once I begin discussions, I mention I'm in the "process" of getting divorced so things aren't finalized and I still need to be somewhat discreet.

The downside to disclosing you're married is that it opens you up to blackmail by psychos. After my recent psycho experience earlier this month, I'm trying to figure out if there is a different approach to handling this. A way to explain the need for discretion while also avoiding SBs thinking they have the "I'm going to tell your wife!" card in their back pocket.

Tricky stuff.

I've noticed the same regarding some Asian SB's having a reluctance to go out with married guys. Mostly Koreans and those from the Phillipines in my experience. My SB for the last seven months is a Korean sophmore attending a University in my city. She has a few other friends besides me. She tells me that she sees only unmarried guys, either single or divorced. I have been married more than once. With out lying I let her know that I was married in the past. I say what is the difference if one is or is not married. The SB is getting the $, gifts, and bills paid that she wants. She has absolutely no intention of ever going out with me other than as a SB. I do not know her friends, etc. She doesn't know mine. She is not looking for companionship from me only Louis Vuitton bags etc. I get to have a 19 yr old to sleep with 2 or 3 times a week. We are both happy in our own way.

[CantWinLosin]

I firmly believe that most of the babies who balk at married daddies while happily sleeping with unmarried ones (and I've known married women who fall into that category too) do so because what they're *really* looking for is a white knight, not a benefactor. If you're looking to be a white knight, that's fine... but if all you want is to have an open-ended casual connection, such "damsels in distress" end up being more trouble than they're worth.

[Dog Rice]

"Selective Morality". Yes. My last night SB did say,"sometimes I don't give a fuck about my moral level"."but I can't have sex w / married men". WTF.

The irony is in re: these Babies who have moral qualms about sleeping with a Daddy who is married don't have any problem fucking the unmarried ones for money. Go figure? This is truly selective morality.

[Hernando]

The irony is in re: these Babies who have moral qualms about sleeping with a Daddy who is married don't have any problem fucking the unmarried ones for money. Go figure? This is truly selective morality.

[Zomby]

"Why can't you? Do you have a wife at home?"

She apparently had not carefully read my SA profile, which clearly says "married, but looking." She was visibly disappointed, and it was suddenly very chilly in the car. I see no point in lying to babies about this, and it would be hard to keep up the charade anyway. She politely thanked me for dinner and was on her way.

[snipped]

What should I do in the future to avoid this type of misunderstanding? Obviously, close the deal! But beside that, I'm thinking I need to ensure the pot is aware I'm married and is ok with that. How do you guys handle this? Because it's never been a problem for me before.

Even still I generally believe in full disclosure when it comes to this. I need the SB on day one to understand the need for discretion. By mentioning these things in my profile, I generally get responses from SBs who are already prepared for a "Behind Closed Doors" arrangement. Also they would figure it out that I'm married/attached pretty soon when I never answer their voice calls, never invite them to my place, or by my very restrictive schedule. And believe it or not I don't like lying, so I try to keep it to a minimum. I think an arrangement is less stressful when both parties know exactly what they're dealing with.

I agree completely with being upfront about being married. In my dealings with strippers and other providers, I've never been shy about answering "yes" to the question of whether I'm married, and probably for much the same reasons, it gets it out of the way, and I don't like lying. And for any who might consider that statement hypocritical, I can only advise you to check your premises and preconceptions.

My SB knew shortly after we met, and long before we started anything sexual, that I was married, and happily so. It's actually one of the reasons she considers me "safe", because there's no danger of me leaving my wife and showing up on her doorstep. She doesn't want me for a boyfriend (even the one she has, she never calls "boyfriend") and I'm completely uninterested in an emotional relationship of the type I have with my wife. I personally think that's why it's lasted so long. Neither of us wants anything from each other except for exactly what we're getting.

/z