"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[SubCmdr]

Listen to your SB's gentlemen. They will tell you what is important to them. Then tie your cash to these important items. Anything that you provide that they are not getting else where is some thing that is going to be important to them and build the most valuable of intangibles 'goodwill'. Take my ATF for example. She initially meets me with peep toe shoes on. I have a mild foot / leg fetish so that works for me. During the action I'm taking her shoes off and she is self conscious about feet tell me she has not gotten her nails done and she prefers to have color on them. I'm moving up looking for the party favors at this point, but I make a mental note. The next morning I ask how much does it cost to get your nails done. She says: 'I don't know. ' That is a little white lie but I'll go with it. Here is $40 is that going to be enough? She give me a coy smile and nod. She then asks me what colors do I like. We talk about many different colors and finally tell her to pick something and surprise me. And I tell her to make sure to send me a picture.

By our next date I have not received a picture. What is the first thing she shows off when we see each other? That's right her nails. And she just had them done the afternoon of our date (so she says). The point of this story is just like all women in our lives it is the little things that count. A little 'goodwill' will get you deeper and longer in the pussy than a lot of money!

Now not everyone can or wants to roll like the Cmdr rolls. And it's all good. But if this is fly fishing please consider this one of my knot tying techniques that has worked for me.

SubCmdr out

[Hernando]

Scotty, the only gift you need to give her is your dick. Whan a girl wants to gift you enjoy the sentiment and don't feel like a reciprocation is necessary. It sounds like she will bring a little sex toy or something mutually enjoyable I would think.

I'm week 2 into SDFM cruising and have sent 20 ems and have only 2 responses so far. One is a 19 yr old college girl who is interested in chatting and the other is a 20 yr old. So wish me luck

As to the ongoing drama of my HCB, I am in the same boat as you Scotty. She has dropped me like a hot potato thanks to the W's slash and burn maneuver. She salted the earth and I don't think we will recover, but I'm still trying until the fat lady sings.

[SubCmdr]

Talking about sex before a M&G: Maybe I've been lucky, but I've never had to specify exactly what I want at future meetings. And maybe it's the hopeless romantic in me (ha!), but I don't like the idea of it. After a few months in the game, I can usually tell if the girl is in tune with the nature of the SB world by the end of the first M&G. Sometimes they make it obvious; I met a girl this week who "isn't into providing sexual favors for money." Good for you, honey, but I'm not in the habit of giving an allowance for "time and companionship." I guess what I'm saying is that, in my experience, the ones who are willing to explicitly talk about sex without ever meeting you are more likely to be pros, UTR pros, or semi-pros. Just saying

Joe,

Thank you for the perspective. Interestingly enough, I don't ever wind up meeting with the "explicit sex talkers" cause I scare them off with my requests for kinky sex or the fact that I'm not giving out much sugar. I never thought about that fact that I'm not really talking to "true SB's" (that is if there is such a thing) because I come from the lifestyle world. In the lifestyle world it's not unusual to discuss details of the encounter you are looking for before meeting. (I. E. Husband talking about his wife: "I'll be watching from the closet. She likes her hair pulled, ass slapping and to be verbally degraded. Condoms for penetration. But no ass fucking, she saves that for me.") My best experiences have been with SB's when our expectations have been stated very generally.

As for the married part, you are going to run into this anytime you treat your SB like a girlfriend. Honesty is the best policy. But we are human beings. Not everyone can fake it. Sometimes the experience is real! My current ATF knew I was married. But she is too. But separated and getting a divorce. (Actually I will probably end up in the same place). She told me early on that it was the first time she was involved with married man. Last night as I was walking her to her to her car in the mall parking lot while holding hands she says: "I got on the web site because I was ready for something different. I had no idea I would start a new relationship with someone I met there." Life happens!

Your pot baby is making the adjustment. Give her time. She will either get comfortable with the idea or she will not. Stay with it. There is nothing but upside for you!

SubCmdr out.

P. S. You lucky dog! I love Asian women. Never had one myself. I got a bad case of "pussy envy" just reading your story.

[HollywoodGuy]

The last girl I broke up with suddenly started deep throating when she saw the handwriting on the wall. Make up sex can be the best sex ever. It's good to break up with them once in a while or ignore them. They have to know they are not the only game in town. The # of babes is way way more than the # of daddies. Never forget that.

[HollywoodGuy]

Wow, there's a lot going on here the last day or so. Let me see what I can cover, and forgive me if I miss something. At the end, I'll add an anecdote of my own, along with my question of the day.

What should I do in the future to avoid this type of misunderstanding? Obviously, close the deal! But beside that, I'm thinking I need to ensure the pot is aware I'm married and is ok with that. How do you guys handle this? Because it's never been a problem for me before.

Honesty is the best policy. Really.

I am single but have about 6 regulars. And they all know about each other. Competition keeps them on their toes. I hate that phrase "spoiled rotten". Because if you do that its just like spoiled fruit. You don't want it anymore. Remember you are giving them the BFE. Make them work for it.

[Dog Rice]

Great advices, HG and Cmdr.

Seems that some gals are pushing for amount (e. G, the 2nd sentence over our first phone call is the amount she got in her previous arrangement.) and some gals don't even ask before M&G.

What is your approach? Don't talk about sugar before M&G?

I always tell the girls I will be more than happy with a HJ on the first date. How many hot girls can go on a date and get all worked up only to give the guy a HJ in the end? Not many. So really what ends up happening is they beg to give you some oral or just go all the way. About 75% of the time I get it all on the first date. And if it takes a second date. I don't care. I have had some awesome sex that didn't involve intercourse. And I think there is sometimes too much pressure for everyone on a first date to perform. Take away the pressure. You know like in sales. And what happens. Everyone relaxes and has a good time. The girls see this as respectful and usually end up showing their gratitude. Also. They see this as very mature. And thats what they all want. Not the younger guy I got to have it now or I. Ll die attitude.

Also if you have a lighter date in the daytime it can be a good warm up before seeing a regular. And then really giving it to her good. And if the light date gets heavy. Well in my case I may or may not have to cancel as I am basically a once a day guy most of the time. IMHO the supply (me) is way less than the demand (them). So why stress out?

[JoesParty]

Wow, there's a lot going on here the last day or so. Let me see what I can cover, and forgive me if I miss something. At the end, I'll add an anecdote of my own, along with my question of the day.

Talking about sex before a M&G: Maybe I've been lucky, but I've never had to specify exactly what I want at future meetings. And maybe it's the hopeless romantic in me (ha!), but I don't like the idea of it. After a few months in the game, I can usually tell if the girl is in tune with the nature of the SB world by the end of the first M&G. Sometimes they make it obvious; I met a girl this week who "isn't into providing sexual favors for money." Good for you, honey, but I'm not in the habit of giving an allowance for "time and companionship." I guess what I'm saying is that, in my experience, the ones who are willing to explicitly talk about sex without ever meeting you are more likely to be pros, UTR pros, or semi-pros. Just saying.

Gifts: Scott, I would wait and see what she gives you. Then, if you are so inclined, you have the opportunity to give considerable thought to a gift in return.

Dog Rice: You are new and excited, my friend. Take a moment to step back and think or even sleep on it. If it is meant to be, she'll still be wanting to meet you tomorrow. Talking about exchanging STD tests this early in your "relationship" indicates to me that she's too much business, not enough GFE. But maybe that's what you want. Given your statement about transitioning from the escort world, maybe that's not a bad thing. But tread carefully.

My world: I had a M&G with a 39yo (they're never 40 or 41, always 39, it seems) Asian baby tonight. Divorced, three kids, with more degrees (and probably more money) than I. She is very smart, very cute, and funny. Given her financial security, I think she's mainly looking for a boy toy to hang out with. Dinner was nice, and we wandered around the mall afterward. She wanted to go to Victoria's Secret to browse, which was promising, but they were closing as we walked by. So I walked her to my car so I could drive her to hers. We sat there and made out for a bit, and she asked me to go home with her. "Can't you spend the night with me?" isn't something I'm accustomed to hearing two hours after meeting someone.

"No," I said. "I have to be home soon."

"Just spend a couple hours with me."

It was tough, really tough, to say no. I had not arranged an extended work release with the warden, and my curfew was quickly approaching.

"Why can't you? Do you have a wife at home?"

She apparently had not carefully read my SA profile, which clearly says "married, but looking." She was visibly disappointed, and it was suddenly very chilly in the car. I see no point in lying to babies about this, and it would be hard to keep up the charade anyway. She politely thanked me for dinner and was on her way.

I've been texting her since we left, trying to gauge whether she wants to meet again. As she admits, she "really likes me." But I can tell she is reluctant to be involved with a married man. She wants to know she will be the only one I'm seeing on the side, as she is very "safe." The conversation is leading me to believe I still have a chance, but who knows? I really want to see her again, because, to paraphrase Wedding Crashers, she would have been my first Asian!

What should I do in the future to avoid this type of misunderstanding? Obviously, close the deal! But beside that, I'm thinking I need to ensure the pot is aware I'm married and is ok with that. How do you guys handle this? Because it's never been a problem for me before.

[HollywoodGuy]

HG,

That's great advice but how do you execute it in daily operations? I get asked all of the time,"What do I have to do for the $?" I tell them they don't have to do anything. But, I'm looking for adult companionship. They always want to pin me down on the specifics. They initiate the sexual conversation. And then after we get into it, I get the"Well I need X # of $ in order to do that."

Always looking to improve my tactics.

SubCmdr out

I always tell the girls I will be more than happy with a HJ on the first date. How many hot girls can go on a date and get all worked up only to give the guy a HJ in the end? Not many. So really what ends up happening is they beg to give you some oral or just go all the way. About 75% of the time I get it all on the first date. And if it takes a second date. I don't care. I have had some awesome sex that didn't involve intercourse. And I think there is sometimes too much pressure for everyone on a first date to perform. Take away the pressure. You know like in sales. And what happens. Everyone relaxes and has a good time. The girls see this as respectful and usually end up showing their gratitude. Also. They see this as very mature. And thats what they all want. Not the younger guy I got to have it now or I. Ll die attitude.

Also if you have a lighter date in the daytime it can be a good warm up before seeing a regular. And then really giving it to her good. And if the light date gets heavy. Well in my case I may or may not have to cancel as I am basically a once a day guy most of the time. IMHO the supply (me) is way less than the demand (them). So why stress out?

[SubCmdr]

Don't talk about sex before a m&g. We are all adults. And its going to happen anyway if its meant to be. I like to focus on something a little softer to start. A shared interest of some sort. Like kissing.

HG,

That's great advice but how do you execute it in daily operations? I get asked all of the time,"What do I have to do for the $?" I tell them they don't have to do anything. But, I'm looking for adult companionship. They always want to pin me down on the specifics. They initiate the sexual conversation. And then after we get into it, I get the"Well I need X # of $ in order to do that."

Always looking to improve my tactics.

SubCmdr out

[F Scott]

At the risk eliciting "eff off, newb" comments

Z,

We were all newbies once, and I would argue that we all can continue to learn. Your comment about everyone bragging, to a degree, is well taken. What is my post about Polo except unabashed crowing? No one cannot benefit from a re-focusing, reality check from time to time.

As for your 3 year ride with your ATF SB, it absolutely ranks up there at the top of the list. Congrats to you, my brother! I sincerely hope you can keep it going, but know that if it ends, we are here to help you get your shit back together.

Keep up the good work,

Scott

[Dog Rice]

Thank you Scotty.

Tried to be efficient to get going. The little dog is in hurry especially from the escort world. Will get him cool down. Thanks again!

Dog,

In my opinion you jumped out too far and too fast, but more to the point, her reply, honestly, would give me pause to the point of severing negotiations. Whether she is in the Adult Industry or not, the fact that she apparently was not offended by your request, and did not tell you to go blow your own Sorry self, BB or not, makes me think that she is probably pro, or at least semi-pro. You should decide whether you want to go forward or not, (sometimes an itch just needs to be scratched) but if it were me, I would not think it's going to lead to a warm and fuzzy ATF-type experience. A true amateur SB would have dropped you like a used condom after your requests.

Hang in there, Polish your game, never give up, and read the forum. The amount of wisdom here is staggering.

Scott

[Zomby]

Lastly, she says she has a gift for me, nothing major nor particularly expensive, (though I worry about what she considers "not particularly expensive") which puts me in a little bit of a quandry, and so I seek the Collected Wisdom. Do I wait and see what it is, then reciprocate the next time we are together, or get her something as well, and run the risk of showing up with something below her pay grade?

Gifts can be touchy. Personally, I would wait and see what she gives you. If she seems put out that you didn't bring anything, which she might, given that she told you she was bringing something, then your reason (not excuse) is that you've been wracking your brain for something appropriate, but couldn't think of anything, and that you'd hoped for inspiration during your meet-up.

/z

[Zomby]

At the risk of getting tossed out of the club, I feel I must weigh in on the recent turn some posts to the Logbook have taken. In my opinion, the thing that separates this thread from all the others on the site that I am familiar with is that it is not just a "notching post", but a real forum for the exchange of knowledge, experience, wisdom gained in the trenches, and yes, anecdotes of successes and failures, all in the pursuit of that most elusive of quarries, the true sugar baby.

At the risk eliciting "eff off, newb" comments, I'm going to agree with the sentiment, but mostly disagree that the forum has turned into a "notching" one. Sure, there is an element of bragging to virtually all of the posts I've seen (and I'm not excluding my own in that opinion) , but none that I've seen lately that seem to be only bragging.

The comment about seeing someone that one knows is a non-pro is pertinent, but relating a story about someone representing themselves as such and then discovering the truth is also completely appropriate, in my opinion.

"I disagree strongly with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire.

While I also agree with that sentiment, I don't think he was calling for any kind of censorship, except for the voluntary, self-imposed variety. He was just stating his preferences for what he wanted to see on this particular section of the site.

And I have posted some tricks of the trade in my posts so far and will continue to do so. All feedback is welcome. Love this place.

HG, I've been watching some of the LA non-pro threads on which you post for a couple of months, and while the focus there, in my opinion, is somewhat different from the one here, I for one don't view some of those experiences as out of line here. Obviously, my opinion is coloured by my own experience, but even though I understand the term "sugar baby" to indicate a longer term relationship than some of the posters on those threads do, I recognize that others might not see eye to eye with me on that score, and there's nothing wrong with that. If one craves variety, I don't see any problem with calling that person a "sugar daddy" even if the longest he's ever seen someone is a month. LOL. As well, is a one-time encounter an example of a sugar baby? Maybe not after the fact, but if one is pursuing a longer term thing, an examination of the shorter ones can be instructive.

I'm not sure where on the longevity spectrum my three year relationship falls, but I suspect it's one of the longer ones, at least as experienced by those I've seen posting here, but the reality is that it will end at some point, for any of a gajillion reasons pertaining to either of us, and at that point, I'm likely to be looking for another SB. Pretty much all examples of attempts at finding new SBs, successes and failures, interest me.

Lastly, she says she has a gift for me, nothing major nor particularly expensive, (though I worry about what she considers "not particularly expensive") which puts me in a little bit of a quandry, and so I seek the Collected Wisdom. Do I wait and see what it is, then reciprocate the next time we are together, or get her something as well, and run the risk of showing up with something below her pay grade?

Gifts can be touchy. Personally, I would wait and see what she gives you. If she seems put out that you didn't bring anything, which she might, given that she told you she was bringing something, then your reason (not excuse) is that you've been wracking your brain for something appropriate, but couldn't think of anything, and that you'd hoped for inspiration during your meet-up.

/z

[F Scott]

Bros,

Texted w / the SB at night, and she was flirting w / me a bit and sent a nude pic to me. I then asked about uncovered BJ and asked her whether she can show me her test result. She said that she tested regularly, but last test was several months ago and no print out. She then said she can go to get AIM test if I pay. (I googled AIM, and it stands for Adult Industry Medical). After that, several questions came to mind: Was she in the Adult Industry before? Or Was she like a semi-pro?

Dog,

In my opinion you jumped out too far and too fast, but more to the point, her reply, honestly, would give me pause to the point of severing negotiations. Whether she is in the Adult Industry or not, the fact that she apparently was not offended by your request, and did not tell you to go blow your own sorry self, BB or not, makes me think that she is probably pro, or at least semi-pro. You should decide whether you want to go forward or not, (sometimes an itch just needs to be scratched) but if it were me, I would not think it's going to lead to a warm and fuzzy ATF-type experience. A true amateur SB would have dropped you like a used condom after your requests.

Hang in there, polish your game, never give up, and read the forum. The amount of wisdom here is staggering.

Scott

[F Scott]

My friends,

Just a quick note to alert you that Polo and I resume our lessons a week from today. She has reserved a room at our favorite stables, sent me some very compromising pictures were she ever to seek public office, and has briefly outlined the lesson plan: a quick review of all we learned last season, plus, as promised, a few new tricks which she apparently feels I am ready for, skill-wise. She is willing to abide by my one request - no spanking of me - and insists that I will be more than pleased. She has also demanded that I block out the hours between 11 and 3, which is longer than we normally ride, so I will need to start doing my calisthenics immediately if I am to survive.

Lastly, she says she has a gift for me, nothing major nor particularly expensive, (though I worry about what she considers "not particularly expensive") which puts me in a little bit of a quandry, and so I seek the Collected Wisdom. Do I wait and see what it is, then reciprocate the next time we are together, or get her something as well, and run the risk of showing up with something below her pay grade? Or not reciprocate at all, at least right away? I know I am overthinking this, but I have to admit to being genuinely touched, especially since my contribution to her "mad money" is laughable, all things considered.

What does a Boy Toy do in this kind of situation?

We have one week to construct a strategy.

All ears,

Scott