"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

**F Scott** · 01-03-12 20:57

Gentlemen,

In looking over the current offerings on SA, I came across the new profile of a baby who used to work for me! She was (is) a stunningly hot Latina spinner, and is clearly looking to find her new turning point, so to speak. Why couldn't it be little Scottie? I had a huge hard-on for her back in the day, and spent many a happy drive home thinking about coming upon her in the copy room late in the day, all alone, bending over to get more toner, and me running my hands over her small but perfect ass, then up under her impossibly short skirt.

Oh sorry, where was I?

This would be idiocy of the first order, right? Or could it be a cold war of sorts: I know she knows that I know what she's up to, and vice-versa, so is it mutually-assured destruction? She is not married, but she does have an incredibly strict mother, who used to stand outside the office waiting for her every night after work to escort her safely home. I used to tell her the best thing she could ever do for herself would be to run away from home and get as far away from la madre as possible. Clearly she is trying to break out and forge a new life for herself. Why couldn't I be of some assistance? Someone please talk me back from this precipice, or encourage me that there is no real danger except sore muscles from fucking her too much.

On the other hand, I have cast my fly towards half a dozen sprightly-seeming little babies, and am awaiting the responses, so perhaps this should remain where it has been for the past five years, safely tucked away under the heading "fantasy that should never be pursued."

I just hope I don't run across one of my friends' daughter's profile. Awkward.

Scott

**Fixinit** · 01-03-12 19:09

Originally Posted by Literal2 [View Original Post]

Fix, I was interested to read your story. I've got theories about this. One is if you fuck a babe repeatedly over a long time you are likely to develop real feelings (another is, the way to a woman's heart is through her vagina). I can see how you could get attached and I hope when the break comes it's not too painful. As others have observed, the multifucking offered by the sb world can make the transition easier. I am curious about how this brings you closer to your SO. I would think it would bring you closer to splitting up.

I like your theories. Besides the fact that I was attracted to my HCB it was the repetition and intimacy that did me in. When the break comes I hope to have other interests to lessen the pain.

It doesn't bring me closer to splitting up but it makes me appreciate my SO for what she does have to offer if that makes any sense. I almost want to invest some of my efforts into my SO to see if the sex life can be rejuvenated but I know I would miss the variety that life has to offer. There were reasons why I always have chased the variety.

Quick story for today. My HCB stopped by my office for an hour today. We talked and then we were about to have some fun. The problem is she got a phone call and needed to run before we could really get into it. Sure I was disappointed but she asked if we can continue this tomorrow and of course I said yes. On her way out she asked if she could have some sugar. I gave her. 3 and she was happy. Then stupid me initiated an overnight next week which she was all for. This is what gets me emotionally attached. I need to keep this fun and away from things you would do in a relationship but damn it will be a fun night. I guess that is why the saying goes "No Pain No Gain".

Fix

**F Scott** · 01-03-12 19:07

Originally Posted by Zman429 [View Original Post]

I'm trying this on seeking arrangements and was wondering what you approach is. I'm used to online dating sites so not sure how to open.

Z

Welcome Z,

If this pans out for you the way it has for certain others of us, I predict you will never go back to whatever it was you were doing before. That said, some time reading this marvelous thread, perhaps back to its very inception, should provide you with all the tools needed to get your fly on the water, at the very least. Practice and patience are then up to you.

If you have specific questions on specific issues, I think you will find any of the brothers here more than willing to share hints and insight. My general technique for all my fishing is to use a combination of politeness, circumspection and manners. These babies are, for the most part, amateurs who may or may not be fully aware of the details themselves, and will need to be coaxed into bed, not shoved. How you do the coaxing, and what you use for a lure, will get you a certain kind of baby. Remember, though, that very few of them are unaware of what the true nature of these kinds of sites is all about. As has been said, you are not meeting them at a health club, but you still don't want to treat them like anything less than ladies, in my opinion.

RTF, grasshopper, and you will find that which you seek, and after you have read the thread, spend some time reading baby profiles, paying close attention to the ones that you respond to yourself. They will tell you what they want you to say - "music, arts, museums, night in snuggling, night out at a nice restaurant, travel, creativity, gentleman, intelligent, love to read, love movies, etc etc." If these are things you can produce, you will have no problems.

My one cardinal rule you must never break: do not send them a picture of lower case z, ever. They will swim back to their holding spots and never rise for you again.

Let us know how things progress,

Scott

**Hernando** · 01-03-12 18:49

Welcome back Lit!

Thanks to all my brothers out there for the concern about me whining like a baby over my HYB. Affairs of the heart are a difficult thing and this SB is my first departure from multifucking that I engaged in over the past 2+ years. I went from 1 to 2 escorts / week to monogamy. As an update I discussed my concerns about my SB's suspected reentry into the SD market and she assured me that she wasn't looking and things are grand with us. Who knows? Maybe she is playing me at my own game, but I choose to believe her. So.I am spending all of my play $$$ on her so in order to spread my seed I would need to back off from her. Ergo, since I am totally satisfied with her services, I 'm sticking with monogamy.

**F Scott** · 01-03-12 18:32

Gentlemen,

Well, I learn something new every day! A friend pm'ed me after reading my post of helpful hints and observations concerning security, and informed me that my clever, super-secret, on-line only credit card had a serious flaw that could easily land me in some very deep, and very hot, water. If my SO, or my accountant, were to get a hold of a credit report, that account would show up, and subsequently be open to review or at least questions, the answers to which would spell my certain doom. He suggested instead getting a shell account, which basically I use for innocent purposes, then use cash to purchase at the same bank pre-paid cards to use when charging is unavoidable.

As for the incriminating account, the advice is to close it pronto, clear out the money (it actually is a debit card attached to a savings account) and pray that it just appears as a closed account. Since I am in the process of eliminating as much cc debt as I can, and closing accounts as I can, this will hopefully not arouse any suspicion. I am off to the bank to negotiate such a thing as soon as I hit "upload". Hope I did not lead anyone astray on this. I wanted to get the word out as quickly as possible. If anyone has any other ideas about anonymous debit cards and how to secure them, I think now might be a good time to share.

On another topic, my workout session with my ATF this afternoon was noteworthy for her inclusion of certain toys, which I had not had any experience with up until now. Subject of another post, I feel, but may I just say HOT! And the vocals!

All the best,

Scott

**Zman429** · 01-03-12 18:21

I'm trying this on seeking arrangements and was wondering what you approach is. I'm used to online dating sites so not sure how to open.

Z

**Literal2** · 01-03-12 14:27

*We have been seeing each other on average three times a week. Sometimes we just hang out and talk, other times we have fun. Last week we spent an overnight and it was a turning point I feel for what has been going on. The week prior we had an overnight and it was actually more like love *

Fix

Fix, I was interested to read your story. I've got theories about this. One is if you fuck a babe repeatedly over a long time you are likely to develop real feelings (another is, the way to a woman's heart is through her vagina). I can see how you could get attached and I hope when the break comes it's not too painful. As others have observed, the multifucking offered by the sb world can make the transition easier. I am curious about how this brings you closer to your SO. I would think it would bring you closer to splitting up.

Every one of the could-actually-meet ladies (I discount the ones from far away) that have winked or written me first has been black, and all but one was less than 25.

CWL, I remember getting those unsolicited winks / kisses etc. Mostly I ignored them because I assumed they were from unattractive girls or pros. Did you ever take the plunge with someone you met this way? I'd be curious how it played out. Forgive me if you have described this before and I forget. Alzheimers. My memory is good enough to remember that you had an active youth, to put it mildly.

Regarding the TV show, they did run a special on the SD thing. More from the SB perspective and how and why these young girls get involved in the trade.

Vroom, I watched the Ariana Huffington piece that was linked earlier, I'm not sure that's what you meant. The thing about that piece that struck me was the psychologist. When asked if being an sb was harmful to the girl, the psych said yes, because she will feel guilty later and that will depress her. The psych also said that sbs and sds were indicative of a real problem, not having morals, etc. Wait, doesn't that imply that if they don't feel guilty they won't be harmed? And I don't see why they would feel guilty if they really don't have the kind of morals that tell them not to do it. Older cats always have and always will lust after young pussies. It makes us happy. What makes people unhappy is hypocrisy. You can't even talk about this stuff (older married guys and young women) leading to happiness or you will get loudly criticized by everybody. Which is why USASG and ISG are so useful. I sent Jackson a note of thanks a while ago when I happened to be in his town. I mean it, this forum and for me this thread particularly have improved my life.

I made it clear she would suffer as much as I would with any public disclosure. She disappeared never to be heard from again.

Spit, well done. I hope I have the balls to do that if it ever happens to me.

***I put myself on double secret probation, and now, looking at it in the clear light of a new year, it seems silly and pointless. There are just too many sweet, sweet babies out there to limit myself to just one.*** I like the pursuit almost as much as the goal, so I am getting my tackle out again, and heading off to the SA pool to see who is rising. ***

Scott, you are the real deal. Lead on brother, and don't forget to write!

Re Scott's post on security and multiple babes. I agree with all his procedures and have used most of them. I'm glad to learn Scott's opinion about license plate disclosure. It's analogous to hotel registration I guess. You don't want to register under a fake name because that's breaking the law and breaking the law leads to problems with the folks against whom our security procedures are ineffective. Similarly, you don't want to mess with license plates. Often I used rental cars on my sb excursions because they were out of town. Once I rented one in town just to see a girl. Too much trouble and it uses up a lot of time better spent fucking.

Two things I would add to Scott's list are encryption software and sim cards. Check out Truecrypt if you're interested and look it over closely. You will be amazed how easy and effective it can be. RE sim cards. If you have an unlocked phone you can replace the sim card when you want a different number and a sim card is a lot easier to hide than a phone.

Still things can always go wrong. I wrote earlier about a lovely fresh 23 year old escort in Canada I hired through an agency and stupidly told I was single. Why should she care? I told her I was mid 50's but said I was divorced. The agency had my real name. Somehow she got it and called my home, the warden picked up. The girl was furious and started screaming. WTF, the girl was a 23 year old escort! The warden thought it was a crank call and threatened the girl with the police. Whew. That was about 10 years ago now but it still gives me the creeps. Weird but true story.

Another unanticipated security breach came when I left an SB in a nice hotel bar, gave her my room number and asked her to join me. When she showed up 15 minutes later she was drunk. My bill from the hotel had several extra charges on it. I complained by email but they never responded and I dropped it. To this day I worry the girl used my room number to order drinks to fortify her nerves when I left and the bar man sympathetically looked up my name for her.

So you can't anticipate everything.

I also agree with Scott that the pursuit is half (well nearly) the fun.

Good hunting to you all.

**F Scott** · 01-03-12 12:02

Gentlemen,

After reading the back-and-forth about security and multiple babies, I thought I might share, for what it's worth, my approach to the issue.

As I see it, most of us have two fronts of concern when it comes to security: the home front and the outside world.

As for the home front, I have a laptop that I use that is separate from the house computer, and my SO has her own lap top that she uses. I make certain to always use the "private browsing" option when doing anything SB related, and always close everything down at the end. In addition, I have set my preferences in both browsers to erase everything upon closing. I have a paper-less, online statement only credit card that my SO is unaware of that I use for all SD-related billing, such as hotels, meds, SA subscriptions etc, and pay cash for everything else unless it is impossible to do so.

For contacting babies, I have a dedicated email account, with a "name" in the address that is play on my fake SA name, which I crafted based on a Whitepages search of names in my area. There is, in fact, some poor shmo who has the same name as I have taken, and is approximately my same age, but I'm guessing has not fucked as many babies as I have. I have set up a facebook page under that same name, with very little info on it, just in case the baby googles my SA name. I have a private photo on my profile that is permission-only access, and it is a picture I took myself in the mirror, so it can't be tin-eyed to anywhere else. Similarly, I have a photo I send from my email address that likewise appears no where else.

As for my car, I keep all receipts, registration, manuals, etc in the wheel well in the back. Nothing with my name on it is kept anywhere a baby could get her hands on. As for tracing a license plate, that is a distant and unlikely fear, as I understand it. A friend of mine who is a detective with the Chicago police department told me that all plate look-ups are recorded, and have to correspond to a legitimate write-up, otherwise it gets looked into and the guy who did it will be reprimanded or written up himself. This means that a baby would have to have a close friend or relative willing to take some heat for her in order to trace your plate. Possible, but not likely.

Lastly, I never share my real name with any baby, nor what I really do for a living. I have concocted a "close enough" profession for the purposes of small talk that allows me to sound like I know what I'm talking about, but not exact enough that an enterprising baby could ever find the real one.

All this helps me to feel comfortable with my activities, and so far, thank the Lord, have not had any issues. I am hoping that it stays that way, and in reality my feeling is that these little fish are just looking for the cash and a good pounding, and not criminally-minded. I have thought about the danger of black mail, and honestly don't know what I would do in that instance. It only works if you let it work; the baby has nothing to gain from contacting your SO, so maybe calling her bluff is an option. I'm not sure I have balls big enough for that, but desperate men do desperate things.

In short, the married SD life is the life of a secret agent, and must be approached as such. If I am meeting a baby for coffee or lunch or a workout in the city, I make sure to mention to my SO that I have work there just in case a girlfriend of hers says that she saw my car in such and such a neighborhood that day. With a little advanced thought, and a rigidly-followed procedure for covering one's tracks, the risk of outing can be kept to a minimum, I believe.

Hope this is helpful. It is a little more stream of consciousness than I normally like, but I trust you will forgive the lack of polish in favor of what I hope is some good advice.

Keep up the good work,

Scott

**F Scott** · 01-03-12 10:47

Originally Posted by Literal2 [View Original Post]

The code of the sd is to seek happiness without doing harm

Gentlemen,

How nice to return from vacation and see so many interesting and informative posts. We have a great start on the new year, let's keep up the pace.

Lit, good to see you back and posting. Hopefully you will be back up to speed soon. Your above comment, along with several pms, have helped to clarify this situation for me. My "celibacy" was self-imposed, and not something I had discussed with my ATF nor asked of her. It's like I put myself on double secret probation, and now, looking at it in the clear light of a new year, it seems silly and pointless. There are just too many sweet, sweet babies out there to limit myself to just one.

Not all of them will consent to be landed, I know, but as I have stated before, I like the pursuit almost as much as the goal, so I am getting my tackle out again, and heading off to the SA pool to see who is rising. I am scheduled for an aerobics class with my ATF later this morning, and Scottie and I are eagerly anticipating getting a good sweat on, but there are a few other little fish that I have been casting to from time to time, just to keep my skills from eroding, and I may just see if I can get them to bite.

As for the Irish Cherokee that prompted my conceptual dilemma, she has had what I can only characterize as a full-out panic attack, and has disappeared, at least for the foreseeable future. And this after several text exchanges about the exact nature of her sexual appetite and skill set. Ah well, such is life. As has been stated before, they are a quixotic breed. While I regret congratulating myself prematurely in public, I do appreciate the assistance from you all in clarifying my thoughts on the whole issue.

As always, my brothers, keep up the good work, and don't forget to write.

Scott

PS - the two most promising, or should I say interesting, babies of the moment are another art student (yay) and an artist / modern burlesque dancer (hooray). In my experience, both of these categories of babies are wild in bed. Wish me luck!

**Fixinit** · 01-03-12 00:28

It has been a while since I gave an update of my current HCB situation. For those of you that don't know I met her from CL almost three years ago and would see her every so often. About six months ago we started seeing each other more frequently leading up to where we are today.

We have been seeing each other on average three times a week. Sometimes we just hang out and talk, other times we have fun. Last week we spent an overnight and it was a turning point I feel for what has been going on. The week prior we had an overnight and it was actually more like love making than just sex. We both felt it and enjoyed it but realized there was a problem. We were both getting too close emotionally and we both realized we need to back off a bit to make what we have work. She is 20 years younger than me and I have a SO so there is no future relationship possibility. I am going to take it for what it currently is and enjoy her hot 22 year old body while it lasts. I will be sad when it is over but I have started the search for someone else to get me moving in another direction. I actually appreciate my SO more going through some of the issues the HCB has. Who would have figured.

Moving forward less emotions and more pleasure. Looking back over the last month or so I pursued her hard and let my emotions take control. It is difficult not to get attached being intimate with someone and seeing them so frequently.

I know what others have said and I chose my own path but I wanted to share what I have experienced. This thread has been an outlet to help me and I want to thank everyone.

Fix

**Spitfire** · 01-01-12 19:24

Lit, good to see you back posting!

Regarding potential blackmail. I don't have a significant other to worry about but I do have a business. A few years back when I began my foray into the SB / SD world, a SB I met and wasn't interested in on began sending texts along the lines of "it would be bad for your business if people knew this is how you spend your free time" so I gave her some sugar. Big mistake, BIG. She came back a week later wanting more, of course. So I decided I would bite the bullet and suffer any consequences but I wasn't going to pay anymore. She was a single mom engaged in a custody fight with her ex, so I made it clear she would suffer as much as I would with any public disclosure. She disappeared never to be heard from again. So remember, since many are single mothers or college students or have boyfriends / husbands, they can have as much to lose as any of us. Although they may not realize it until it is explained to them. If she persisted, I planned to go to the police. Thankfully that wasn't necessary.

Still, it's always wise to avoid those SBs when you have a gut feeling something like that may occur. It's not worth the stress.

**Varoom** · 01-01-12 19:12

Originally Posted by literal2 [View Original Post]

as far as the entrapment tv show goes, hopefully i'll never run into it. if i had any doubt about a girls age, i think i'd be smart enough to ask for proof. the operative words are "i think," and mr johnson sometimes has other thoughts. still, to entrap you, don't they have to say things like,"you know i'm ****, right?" i do believe i'd be smart enough to handle that one, with or without mr johnson's cooperation.

**** and proving it. i'll just two words: 'lawrence taylor'. i believe he is now a sex offender and serving x yrs of probation over his under age female, even though she stated she was older. it doesn't matter in some states, it does in others, so more research would have to be done in your area to know for sure.

entrapment is a different issue. they may not get a conviction, but they would surely get an arrest. you know which one we would fear more here. once you were arrested, the rest would be a hassle, and certainly even if the chgs were dropped or one were acquitted, the damage is done. but frankly this conversation isn't probably too productive for most of us, other than to be wary of young girls and situations that could be any kind of a sting.

regarding the tv show, they did run a special on the sd thing. more from the sb perspective and how and why these young girls get involved in the trade. also looking at the comparative similarity of sd vs. pay for play outright; implied versus stated maybe. i didn't see the piece but heard several news reports and saw a highlight or two on it, along with some discussion on another part of this board, i think. good to stay clear of the cameras; wow.

lit, so glad to see you back here, if only for a while. you contributions, methods and knowledge have been missed. of course others have picked up some of the slack, but we would all benefit by your return. whether you are active or not with the sb's. i understand the concern for security, and it is that aspect that keeps me in more arms length arrangements. the closeness of the sb gig has it benefits but certainly its limitations.

**Literal2** · 01-01-12 18:47

Originally Posted by varoom [View Original Post]

wow. makes me think chris hanson, dateline scenario. there is no freaking way i would visit a (supposed) 18 yo's house for this very scenario. risk too great.

damn, you're right, i hadn't even thought of that.

now that my foggy brain clears though i remember another reason i took a break from the sd / sb game. i got several emails on sd4me asking if i'd be part of a "well-compensated" reality show about sds and sbs. one of my sbs got the same thing. scared me silly, thinking about running into a film crew on one of my dates. i wonder what happened with that.

as far as the entrapment tv show goes, hopefully i'll never run into it. if i had any doubt about a girls age, i think i'd be smart enough to ask for proof. the operative words are "i think," and mr johnson sometimes has other thoughts. still, to entrap you, don't they have to say things like,"you know i'm ****, right?" i do believe i'd be smart enough to handle that one, with or without mr johnson's cooperation.

it's a rough world out there. a poor old monger just tries to get himself a little bit of young pussy and all these hypocrites gang up on him.

**CantWinLosin** · 01-01-12 15:07

Lit, I'll let you know.

Personally, I haven't seen signs of black girls not liking older white guys, at least not on SA or SB4Me. Every one of the could-actually-meet ladies (I discount the ones from far away) that have winked or written me first has been black, and all but one was less than 25. Of course, my unscientific analysis of the SB populations on SA and SD4Me indicates that there are at least three young black women for every one female of any other race or age, so I shouldn't be surprised about that. But it's certainly a telling data point relative to the current economic problems we all face. I also find it interesting that a high percentage of those young black ladies do not post photos. Leads me to believe that a lot of those girls are just grasping at any way to bring in some money without giving any real thought to what they're doing.

The interesting part of this discussion to me is all the concerns about security. As an unattached male in his mid 50's, I don't have several of the worries some of you other guys do, but I can appreciate the concerns. I'm thankful that I don't have to secure my phone and computer from the prying eyes of a warden!

**Varoom** · 01-01-12 14:49

Wow. Makes me think Chris Hanson, Dateline scenario. There is NO freaking way I would visit a (supposed) 18 yo's house for this very scenario. Risk too great.

Originally Posted by Literal2 [View Original Post]

She was 18 (supposedly). I contacted her and we tried to work out a time. I couldn't do days at that point and she couldn't do the evening and she wouldn't travel from her home. She said it was too dangerous. Since I couldn't make the date anyway I didn't have to think through whether or not I would go to her home. At the time I was seeking a back-up for a no-show sb date. I think if I had obtained access I would have fucked her willingly (assuming she was over 18).