"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[Magic Rat]

I have to admit I'm impressed with the talents of the mongers on this board.

I've never had any luck with out of town sbs while I've been traveling. I've tried a few time but never seemed to get a good hit, maybe I'm just going to the wrong places.

I'm also impressed that so many of you score with the younger sbs. I've been with one mid 20s sb and the reward never came close to the effort and $cost. As I've said before, I've had success with the early 40's milfs who maybe don't get it nearly as often as they would like. Two of the best fucks of my life have been these types, including the present sb. I don't know if they think the hormonal clock is ticking or what, but some have been wilder than anything I've ever experienced, including numerous escorts. They seem to appreciate you more and won't attempt to break the bank either.

Lots of places these days to get pussy, but for me the sb route is the way to go, and I've just about tried them all. As we all know, that may change with my next trip to a strip club, but if it happens, it happens.

Enjoy all and keep the reports coming!

[Literal2]

I've read back a dozen pages and first off I'd like to say this thread should have its own main topic and not hidden in the Richmond section.

I've had all the same experiences, first evolving from stripper dates to working a SD website. While I still frequent the strip clubs it can cost more to get the confidence of a stripper than I'd does for the actual act and so many of them suffer from the "golden pussy syndrome". I've learned to never pay in advance, had one stripper / SB who was always having car problems and while she promised me to make it up never really came through as I had hoped. I've seen it as a continuing problem with strippers that the expectation on their part seems to go up over time. Had a Brazilian that I was banging for 5 years on and off that started as a freebie, the last time I talked to her she demanded $500 for our usual overnight that had normally run me between $200-300. Big hard feelings arose on her part and it sent me looking for a new regular.

On the SB front I've been on and off SDForme for a couple years. Found it to be great when looking to score while on the road. My "hit ratio" of meets to bedroom has to be almost 90. When I'm traveling I'll send out a bunch of contacts and work them down to a couple good candidates. Some last minute juggling and before you know it Hello, Las Vegas and non pro GFE dates every night while I'm in town.

I've had god luck locally as well. My recent regular just moved back to CA from NYC but for 6 months I was able to enjoy some of the best GFE / PSE I could ever imagine for $300 a night. She would show up at my hotel room packed for overnight and we'd screw until I dropped and again in the morning before I had to leave for business. Very hot 23yo aspiring actress / phone sex operator. She really new how to verbalize and was perhaps the best lay I've ever had.

I'm totally hooked on the SB thing. It's not cheap but when you get a hot 23YO dressed as a school girl waitng in your hotel rom ready for a night of passionate sex and as many pops as you can muster its a great value in my book.

Hobby, your post is enough to make a monger say a prayer. You are obviously a True Believer and you practice our theology. Welcome to our church.

[MyHobby]

I've read back a dozen pages and first off I'd like to say this thread should have its own main topic and not hidden in the Richmond section.

I've had all the same experiences, first evolving from stripper dates to working a SD website. While I still frequent the strip clubs it can cost more to get the confidence of a stripper than I'd does for the actual act and so many of them suffer from the "golden pussy syndrome". I've learned to never pay in advance, had one stripper / SB who was always having car problems and while she promised me to make it up never really came through as I had hoped. I've seen it as a continuing problem with strippers that the expectation on their part seems to go up over time. Had a Brazilian that I was banging for 5 years on and off that started as a freebie, the last time I talked to her she demanded $500 for our usual overnight that had normally run me between $200-300. Big hard feelings arose on her part and it sent me looking for a new regular.

On the SB front I've been on and off SDForme for a couple years. Found it to be great when looking to score while on the road. My "hit ratio" of meets to bedroom has to be almost 90. When I'm traveling I'll send out a bunch of contacts and work them down to a couple good candidates. Some last minute juggling and before you know it Hello, Las Vegas and non pro GFE dates every night while I'm in town.

I've had god luck locally as well. My recent regular just moved back to CA from NYC but for 6 months I was able to enjoy some of the best GFE / PSE I could ever imagine for $300 a night. She would show up at my hotel room packed for overnight and we'd screw until I dropped and again in the morning before I had to leave for business. Very hot 23yo aspiring actress / phone sex operator. She really new how to verbalize and was perhaps the best lay I've ever had.

I'm totally hooked on the SB thing. It's not cheap but when you get a hot 23YO dressed as a school girl waitng in your hotel rom ready for a night of passionate sex and as many pops as you can muster its a great value in my book.

[Literal2]

But your SO wouldn't be suspicious when a second phone starts ringing? So you leave it off and hide it and pray she never finds it.

That's why the Google Voice controls are so great. You can set up individual instructions for every possible incoming call. So someone who would be suspicious goes straight to voicemail (and it will even e-mail you a transcript of the voicemail so you don't have to call in to check it). It shows up as voicemail from an ordinary phone number, which you can even enter in as a contact and name it something unsuspicious like "Office. Shipping Department". The only people who you let ring through are ones you know, or trust to be cool if the wife answers.

The biggest concern a lot of guys have with Google is that it is pretty clear that Google will be archiving the call logs. I might be worried about that if I was dealing with large agencies which might be the target of federal stings. But for calls to independent girls or SBs, I don't care what Google does. That data isn't going to be public or found by a SO.

Here's the earlier post by Questor who provides details about how the GV service works. If anyone has used it for a while to assist in mongering, it would be great to hear about it.

[Richmond Fotog]

Google Voice also supports SMS. You can also have missed calls, txt messages and voicemail messages emailed to your GMail account.

INumbr sounds good until you see the lack of features and costs. You also have to use a credit card. You could do better than that with a burner phone.

http://inumbr.com/features

There's also a subscription service at inumbr dot com that gives you a new number for callers to dial and forwards their calls to another number you specify.

[Literal2]

By the way, Nando, I believe Golfcart first identified this syndrome on this thread. It explains a good deal of undesirable sb behavior.

[Literal2]

These last few posts about disposable cell phone numbers are useful. Fotog's description of Google Voice, which a monger described in detail on this thread earlier, sounds promising. There's also a subscription service at inumbr dot com that gives you a new number for callers to dial and forwards their calls to another number you specify.

I've been using a second phone and secret number for mongering but it has the security risk Bunker describes. I need to learn more about other options. A cheap unlocked gsm phone with a sim card that can be switched out for a new number when desired sounds like the place to start for me.

I like the ceremonial destruction of Snake's cell phone when his relationship disintegrated though. Like a funeral, it provided closure.

[Richmond Fotog]

Google Voice with all of its features remains free. If you set it up correctly and learn it properly you'll find out you'll like it. You can also turn off the forwarding easily and there is a do-not-disturb feature. Don't like who is calling you? Click the "Block This Number" feature. If you set it up properly, no one knows your real number.

If you prefer to buy a separate phone, why trash the old one? Providers like TMobile and Boost are GSM. I think AT&T is another one. You can change the SIM card for $10 or less and get a new number. There are ways to get a new number without trashing the phone. Most monthly prepaid plans will change the number without having to buy a new phone or lose your lose your time on the phone.

I've been urging people for years to do what you do. Buy a cheap phone (7-11, CVS, Best Buy, etc) , charge it up with cards purchased with cash, and every so often, take out the battery, smash the phone and discard it, then start over with a new phone and number.

[Bunker Buster]

I used to have one of those cheap, anonymous phones you can buy in a shop for $15 and then pay for the few minutes you need to meet girls. After my last SB made me miserable I threw the phone in the river. Since I refuse to use my regular cell phone to make contact, this effectively cut off the activity.

So I have thrown away the phone in a ceremonial visit to the river.

I've been urging people for years to do what you do. Buy a cheap phone (7-11, CVS, Best Buy, etc) , charge it up with cards purchased with cash, and every so often, take out the battery, smash the phone and discard it, then start over with a new phone and number.

Guys who make arrangements on personal and even company cell phones are asking for serious marital, employment and legal problems. One blunder, and everything is exposed. If a divorce lawyer pulls phone records and finds hundreds of calls to other women, pros, SBs, whatever, kiss everything goodbye.

[Golfcart]

(edit delete)My last SB was one of the most desirable women I've ever been with, from several points of view. But it was very much a "usage" relationship: I used her and she used me. Her attitude was like "you can have me but you can't really have me". And she never wanted to know my name or anything about me, ostensibly for my protection, but presumably to ensure a good exit strategy for her as well. So when a better deal came along (single guy with resources offering marriage) she was gone, which of course makes sense. In some respects it was a bit insulting, but obviously as a married man I could not expect anything better. I had only myself to blame for putting myself in that position. So I have thrown away the phone in a ceremonial visit to the river.

She was smart in the way she handled the relationship. And about her future, I think everyone would want that for her.

Snake, you are better for having met her.

[Snake27]

I used to have one of those cheap, anonymous phones you can buy in a shop for $15 and then pay for the few minutes you need to meet girls. After my last SB made me miserable I threw the phone in the river. Since I refuse to use my regular cell phone to make contact, this effectively cut off the activity.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not moralizing or criticizing. Two of my 3 SB experiences have been very positive and ended well. After knowing a bit about SBs I have very little interest in other forms of prostitution. They just don't compare. The memory of SBs has helped steered me clear from danger or from wasting money.

My last SB was one of the most desirable women I've ever been with, from several points of view. But it was very much a "usage" relationship: I used her and she used me. Her attitude was like "you can have me but you can't really have me". And she never wanted to know my name or anything about me, ostensibly for my protection, but presumably to ensure a good exit strategy for her as well. So when a better deal came along (single guy with resources offering marriage) she was gone, which of course makes sense. In some respects it was a bit insulting, but obviously as a married man I could not expect anything better. I had only myself to blame for putting myself in that position. So I have thrown away the phone in a ceremonial visit to the river.

[Literal2]

Lit, I'm sure there are a lot of other advantages and disadvantages that folks will add, but I'll toss the first one that come to my mind: scheduling is often difficult with SBs. We have to schedule around not only the other time consumers in our lives, but in hers as well. With a pro, her job is what we're seeking, so while there may still be minor scheduling issues, they tend to be far less than with a SB, especially for those of us with a warden we have to escape from (I'm sooooo glad that ain't me!) The flip side is that, for the pros that travel, the scheduling becomes all-or-nothing based on whether or not she's in town.

I think I've been lucky with SB's because I haven't had real scheduling issues as in a lot of no-shows or last minute changes. I realize others have. A lot of sb's are only available outside of regular working hours, though, which is often a problem.

In my case, I have had a lot of scheduling problems with pros, maybe because I seldom see one more than once.

But you are right, CWL. Scheduling belongs on the list of disadvantages of SB's.

[Literal2]

I've been following this thread for awhile now. One of the more useful and interesting threads on the guide, and I contributed to it once awhile back.

One of the "disadvantages" (or risks, if you will) not listed by Literal2 is that you might become attached to her. This could happen if there is some chemistry and friendship. Of course, if there's a huge age difference or if you have a hard shell I guess it's not a big risk. I think I might be too wimpy for this approach.

Happened to me last year. *

Snake, you are right. It happens.

Actually, it reminds me some of hunting. A beginning hunter sometimes experiences remorse killing his first large animal. Once he gets used to it, the remorse isn't there.

SB's are very similar to normal girls. It's normal to feel romantic attachment for a girl if you are close to her. I think the tendency to feel this way reduces with multifucking, and also apparently (according to some mongers) if you become used to having long term relationships one after another.

My own case shows the beginner's attachment tendency, although my attachment wasn't with an sb, but rather a gorgeous, long-haired blonde 26 years old, voluptuous, illegal immigrant (I think) from Sweden in California nearly 10 years ago. She was a single mom without valid US I D living in a big house with two small kids. She'd started as a maid and married some jerk with bucks who dumped her. She'd tried stripping but couldn't make it pay, so she tried escorting. Not smart, but so beautiful and vulnerable. I had just started mongering and was hooked emotionally on the girl. What a clingy pest she became in just a few months. I learned my lesson.

In another weird case a 23-year old inexperienced agency escort, also beautiful, the daughter of a preacher, became close. She started to build fairy tales in her mind. I had lied about not being attached. She decided she wanted to get married. When she found out I was attached, she phoned my SO to rat me out. My SO didn't believe her, probably because the girl was out of control on the phone. How did she get my number? She knew enough to research it (also, the agency knew who I was and may have helped her out). This too taught me a lesson: agency escorts are like other girls in more ways than you think. I never lie about not being attached, no matter who I'm with, and I avoid giving my true I D as much as possible.

With SB's attachment hasn't really been a problem for me. There have been a lot of them (based on my standards, not the standards of the high volume multifuckers) , and the closest I came was with SB4, she of the perfect ass (see previously posted pic), but then I did a little multifucking and along came SB18. I'm enjoying her but not getting attached, I don't think.

But you are right, Snake. Attachment risk is real when you start opening up SB pussy. It belongs on the list of disadvantages.

[Literal2]

Another swell post by Nando. I'm starting to think his high volume multifucking may somehow increase his vocabulary.

[Hernando]

I think you are right on Lit and while we each have our own variations of the game, they are true.

I have been in several situations. From multifucking to monogamous.

I am currently Monogamous. Well, sort of. I have a dear SB who I think is satisfied with me and my sugar, and I see her as much as she and I want to given our life circumstances. I like a little strange thrown in but she satisfies most of my needs.

My experiences in the SD / SB game:

Plusses of a SB;

1)"amateurs". Sort of. If we call a spade a spade, then we all know what they truly are, but many are not pimping their services to the general public, and might even be monogamous if your sugar quotient is on target.

2) cheaper. Usually not up front but if you factor in the length of the date. In many cases hours to all night, the $$/hr rate goes way down. My SB costs approximately $25 / hr. Still and all, not a bad rate of return for a young lady doing what she loves. That is eating, sleeping, and fucking

3) relationship-SB's can be as close to a SO as can be without the noose around your neck and inlaws to deal with. It is nice to have someone either care for you or at least act like they care. And want to spend the night with you. That $$day is a powerful motivation for polishing their acting skills. BTW. An old joke. Do you know how to stop a girl from fucking / giving head / pick a pleasure? Of course you all know the answer. Marry her! As long as they don't own you they might still keep trying to impress you.

4) availability. This will also go in the negative column depending on your SB 's situation. My SB is available 90% of the time I need / want her. She is single. Apparently not in a relationship, no kids, no nearby family, seems to enjoy being with me, so life is good. If your SB is committed to pleasing you she will make the extra effort to get that $$. Er, I mean love from you.

5) medically clean-assuming you are her one and only the odds are good that std exposure will be less. However, true amateurs might be less aware of and less committed to using protection than pros, therefore can actually be a higher risk until both of you are treated for her gonorrhea. Then you're clean.

6) sexually naive. This can be good in a way since you can thrill her with your incredible knowledge and experience. And train her to your liking. The first night my girl had multiple O's blew her mind and placed me nicely on her pedestal. It also makes you feel like she hasn't blown 800 guys and swallowed 12 liters of cum. I always have a problem kissing an escort who advertises CIM. It might be cool for the donor but you have to know that you aren't the only one and some guys have donated earlier.

7) lower DB quotient. Well, see cons as well. That is Dirt Bag for the unfamiliar. I am idealizing SBs in the best sense of the word. I am using my current SB as a beacon for goodness of the SB system. She is sweet, educated, monogamous (yeah. I know. As long as I don't know better), loving, loves sex, and so far not greedy.

8) legally safe (are). Unless your SB is hooking and working several different web sites (like BP) you are not likely to have a bust encounter (see cons)

Cons of the SD / SB system:

1) Harder work. There are more guys vying for the babies out there jacking the price up and creating the GP syndrome (Golden Pussy to quote Lit or Cool I think) I do a search of my area within a 50 mile radius and there are only 40 + girls in my rather large age range (18 to 40 basically) I prefer Caucasian ladies so the pool will be much larger if you are not selective re: race. There are not too many entries in other ethnic groups so the number does not change much.

2) more expensive. See above #2 Many SBs I met have GP syndrome already. At least escorts are more practical in pricing. One SB wanted $700 / hour. And, many (or most) require a hotel, so that adds another $ to the tab. At least Escorts usually provide a room. The upside is time as I said above.

3) unreliability. Most of my experiences have borne this out except my current SB. And included in this category are drug, alcohol and tobacco addiction, child care issues, ex baby daddy drama, legal action pending, desperate poverty, felonius behavior, inappropriate begging for extra money-to name a few. The list is long from my experience and I have lost many $$$s from loans / trades that were never paid back, promises that were not kept, dates which were blown off or forgotten. If you get involved then you are more likely to do stupid things. Like give money in advance, etc. READ MY LIPS. I've said it before and I will say it again. DO NOT GIVE ANY MONEY IN ADVANCE. You have been warned. You WILL get burned. If you find a reliable one. Keep her happy.

4) legal problems. Some SB's are hookers working multiple sites, and if she is on BP when you go to meet her you could get caught up in a bust. Also, you could be open to blackmail, extortion, unwanted pregnancies who need a baby daddy donor, drug busts. To name a few.

5) Fatal Attractions. If you ever saw that movie you will understand the risks here. If you haven't seen it. Don't. I have a SB now who is addicted to me and I am trying to get out delicately. I don't think she is psycho or will hurt me but.

6) heartbreak. Yes, even Mongers like us can and will fall in lust for some of our ladies. And it hurts when they move on to greener pasture$. Unless you are hard hearted, it probably has happened to you. It's easy to think that she loves you for your with, penis lenth, incredible sexual virtuosity, engaging personality, brilliance. Blah blah blah. But most of the time they are interested in one thing. Mr Jackson and his many cousins that you decorate her pocket book with. Yes. I do believe love happens. I'm not a total cynic, but most of the time it doesn't. Keep in mind that she selected you to penetrate her vagina because you offer a payday. This relationship is based on a business transaction. From start to finish, and these girls protect themselves from hurt, disgust, shame, revulsion for what they are doing. By keeping you at an emotional arms length. They will dump your sorry horny ass in a new york minute when a better deal comes along. I've been there and done that. Lit makes it clear. And I agree completely. That if the sugar isn't adequate. They move on. So if you want to keep your intimidating. A little too much for me. Girl. Overpay her. I pay my SB well but not over the top-just enough to keep her in designer purses and not to want to risk losing a sure thing for a few $$ more bucks. And. Some girls don't want to be a multifucker themselves. Because it is too much like prostitution. And she doesn't want to think of herself like that.

7) sexual naivete and inexperience. Most girls putting themselves out there on the sexual web are experienced fuckers and suckers. The difference is that a really good escort will work overly hard to make Johnny feel good about himself so he will want to come back. Amateurs are less experienced and more into their own sexual response, and might have anxieties about fucking a stranger who might be 40 ears her senior. Pros are used to it. One of my favorite pros sees 6-8 guys / day on her travels through town. And topped out at 11. I always signup for the first time slot. And we have fun, she has multiple O's, and I leave her to callous formation in her vagina for the rest of the trip. Bad pros are burned out, rude, scammers, etc. I personally like a little inexperience so I can teach her a few things. I had a meet with a porn star one time and it was

Well, thats about it. Lit said it a lot shorter so sorry for the term paper, but it's kind of fun to relive this hobby. I love it so much. Don't you?