"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[Hernando]

Thanks to all of you experienced guys for your advice.

Perhaps I will rethink my approach to discussing.or not discussing.sugar.

Nando 3's in many cases do not have any knowledge of the escort world unless educated by prior Daddies. (the Inexperienced Sportster.not the serial version) If you are lucky enough to get a SB virgin and you are her first experience, her knowlege of payment standards will be based on what you give her. If it is enough to impress her, then she might not keep shopping and you set the standard, therefore I suggest not going over the top. For me.every new lay is amazing, so I am tempted to overpay, but then you are stuck with that price going forward.

A case in point. A 22 yr old SB I scored was young, nubile, and a pretty good lay.not great, but trainable. I did not discuss the $ before and she never asked. She did return for round two so she must have been happy. But I then decided to make her an offer for a regular monthly arrangement which was 1/2 the one pop rate but an ongoing guarantee. Keep in mind this girl was an N1.desperately poor.and blew me off in spite of a regular income and some serious non sex tipping and gifting. This is a classic case of thinking paycheck to paycheck and lacking the ability to plan. Her only choice to make more will be escorting of the BP variety because she does not have what it takes to be a SB or higher level escort.

Another case. I was negotiating with a N3.of the experienced ilk.possibly a N2 (escort).which she started by the way, and when I threw out a number she countered with the going escort rate in the community. So it's good to know where they are coming from. She would never be happy unless she was getting $$$/pop.

The bottom line is.if you are generous at or above the level of the upper tier escort rate.then you will have no problem with repeat business. I like the reference made above about GPS (Golden Pussy Syndrome) We all create our own monsters and GPS is one of them.

[Magic Rat]

Golfcart,

I'm not sure how your post could be considered controversial. I pretty much agree with about all you say regarding the sugar and how to give it.

I have never been the one to bring it up first, and most of the sbs don't either. I have had a couple that did bring it up in advance and I readily agreed with the amounts for each of them. One was about par I would say and the other was high but not out of the ballpark. Seeing as how I unexpectedly spent the night with her the first date, her fare actually ended up to be quite reasonable. We didn't always do an overnighter, but if not, the minimum was 3-4 hours so I think we were both satisfied with the entire arrangement.

I too try to be discreet in the passing of the sugar, either slipping it into her purse or her back jeans pocket. I've only had a complaint from one sb regarding the amount so it doesn't seem to be as big a deal as we guys might think it is. I don't always give the same amount, but I do have a standard amount depending on the time, looks, attitude, and services provided. I'm currently seeing two different sbs and the issue of $ never comes up. We meet, talk about what's happened since last meeting, have some fun and at the end I slip the sugar into the purse. As Golf says, no envelope either as they may misconstrue the meaning there.

It seems the important point to remember here is to keep our big mouths shut regarding the pay for play issue and we'll have a much better time. To the outside world I'm sure the feeling is that we're hiring a prostitute, but to the sbs I can assure you they don't look at it that way at all. I've had a few vehemently assert that they are NOT a hooker, and I certainly wouldn't argue against that. In their minds it's a totally different situation and, to be honest, I feel much different about seeing a sb than seeing a pro.

Saying all that, in the end it's opinion and what we feel comfortable with. Other, wiser members of this board have had tremendous success handling things differently and you can't argue with their success. Personally, I try to keep it low key and if it blows up, it blows up. So far that has worked for me though.

[Varoom]

<edit delete

Only once have I experienced an issue with the gift. I was generous with a particular girl, generous meaning I gave her prevailing escort rates at the upper end (which she could command if she were in that market) (I figured she would know). Everything happened per usual and happened twice. She was very good, very accommodating and very hot. When arranging our third visit she surprised me by wanting to bargain up and had a much higher number in mind. The second surprise, she had driven to me the two times previous (the drive was 90 minutes one way which I acknowledge was material) and now she wanted me to drive to her. She wasn't talking about alternating the drive; she was talking about a permanent arrangement of me driving to her.

I took what I was hearing as sourced to the nature of her employment (she was a realtor; any offense taken by a realtor reading this, I'm sorry, but you do push on a string) and also by an affliction I did not know she had (the golden pussy syndrome). That syndrome always generates a deal breaker eventually so that was the end of that. While I have said we can't push on a string, the women can't either.

There is no future unless the parties accommodate each other naturally without working at it. Just my opinion.

Golf is a plenty enough smart guy, maybe one of the brightest on the usasg site. I have enjoyed his perspective on many a circumstance via his many posts.

As to the situation of your Realtor gal, who moved the goal line on you in the 3rd quarter. Ala more sugar and you now driving the 90 miles instead of her. People don't generally throw out ultimatums (aka throwing the ACE of Spades) unless the results of such have little consequences to them. Either she didn't care if you followed thru on the new rules or maybe preferred that you didn't, but either way this may have been her way of breaking off the deal or letting you down slowly. Folks often feel better by offering an unrealistic or unreasonable alternative, rather than just stating their mind; e. G."I don't want to continue the gig". This way when you reneg on her offer, she didn't end things, you did; (in her mind) and that is what counted to her. Afterall, none of these gigs are meant to be forever. Some just last longer than others, but they all, with rare exception. Come to an end sometime.

As to this thread in general. It has certainly been one of the best reads of the entire site. I haven't beeen pursuing much in the way of new SB's, so have had nothing to contribute, but definitely enjoy the experiences of many here and the new contributors have further enhanced the lively discussions.

[Golfcart]

When a SB is ready to go to the FC I will ask her tactfully what she expects from our time together (edit delete).

I'm sure Hernando handles the gift tactfully and it works for him. I handle it differently due to some strongly held views.

Women are good at expressing their feelings but not very good at making a decision when put on the spot. Just my view but I never ask a woman any question where the answer could make the situation more difficult for either of us. An example of what not to ask is the gift a SB is expecting. Without any experience on the subject (because I don't ask and I don't tell) I see little chance of an upside to discussing the gift in advance. I see risk the discussion will doom the relationship sooner or later no matter whether her answer is low, medium or high.

First, we have no way of knowing where she really is in her process of "coming out" as a SB. All we know is what she wants us to think. A question about her gift forces her to price herself to our face. That could kill the deal right there. She's traveled the thinking about it step and the accepting the idea step to some extent, all big steps, but each hypothetical steps only and in her head only. Now she is talking to us and this may be her first step actually talking the walk (I didn't say walking the walk) and here we are asking her to price herself. I call that being on the spot. Of course we won't present it that way but she will hear it that way and that's the problem. There's even this problem with a bona fide internet escort. They resent our attempt to put a price tag on them even though their websites do exactly that in most cases. This brings me to the obvious point that what people say about themselves is not fair game for us to say to them about themselves.

We need to make the SB's transition from talking the walk to walking the walk as easy for her to take on her own as we can or she'll walk the walk with some other guy. We can't let her "feel" she is being cornered by our questions. The risk is she will feel cornered no matter how we handle it; no matter how successfully (or luckily) we have handled it in the past. We must let her control her own pace in her own time and that means the pace of everything. We cannot push on a string over this or over anything.

Second, the question risks she may open with a number knocked out of the ballpark and that puts us at stalemate with no upside for having taken that risk. Questions should bring solutions not create problems or risk problems. This is not the way to negotiate.

Even if her number is in the outfield only our question brought us a number we're not happy with, and now we must treat each other like two used car dealers. I doubt any hot bedroom activity will flow from any of that. This is not the way to negotiate.

Suppose she opens with an infield fly. That's not any better for us. She'll figure out before long how she didn't know, how we knew better and took advantage of her, and we really did. Of course this will happen with a prize piece and we won't be able to save it because we did take unfair advantage, and what trust we had we lost. We get what we deserve. So much for our negotiating style. Again, just my opinion.

Maybe I'm not on the same page goal-wise with many here. If the idea is to have a series of one-shots and move on, well, okay. Talk money if it works.

Back to the programming for guys who want her around for a while until we decide to move on. Our negotiating style should be to not negotiate. Use fait accompli instead, and be fair and reasonable about it. Be someone she can count on who will not let her down. We become important that way.

I strongly think no discussion of her gift should be had ever, and in my experience I have never raised it and never had the woman raise it either. If I found one who did I would conclude she is a real pro, a pro in her own mind or at a minimum she has some real serious bills that must be paid by yesterday which means she is in a real corner, which is all the more reason to not take advantage of her situation. If she is that ready take her behind closed doors on the spot and pay her what she can really command. For that woman we know better what she is worth than she does. Tell her by showing her.

I've never failed to close a deal once we've talked on the phone, and not once has the gift ever come up. Everything is arranged and happens like an ordinary date in the ordinary world. This is part of not pushing on a string.

I’ve read about guys telling the girl what they were going to do with her in bed, her toes curling, and this and that, maybe that works, maybe I need some pointers.

The gift is handled when we are leaving each other. I use folded bills bound by a rubber band in my palm (she might be aware of the role occupied by the envelope, i.e., don't use an envelope) which I put in her purse palm down so she doesn't see a thing other than the top of my hand sliding in and out. She knows what is going on so there is no need for me to say a word. We all know what we say to a woman will get us into more trouble than most anything we do. This time is especially the time to not say a word. I deposit the gift when we are departing and I use a door opening or closing as the moment I've found that works the best. To make a reference to the gift at the time it is given, well, we might as well call her a name. She may even make reference to it herself but that doesn’t change that we should keep our mouth shut. We can always say things we don’t want others to say to us.

Only once have I experienced an issue with the gift. I was generous with a particular girl, generous meaning I gave her prevailing escort rates at the upper end (which she could command if she were in that market) (I figured she would know). Everything happened per usual and happened twice. She was very good, very accommodating and very hot. When arranging our third visit she surprised me by wanting to bargain up and had a much higher number in mind. The second surprise, she had driven to me the two times previous (the drive was 90 minutes one way which I acknowledge was material) and now she wanted me to drive to her. She wasn't talking about alternating the drive; she was talking about a permanent arrangement of me driving to her.

I took what I was hearing as sourced to the nature of her employment (she was a realtor; any offense taken by a realtor reading this, I'm sorry, but you do push on a string) and also by an affliction I did not know she had (the golden pussy syndrome). That syndrome always generates a deal breaker eventually so that was the end of that. While I have said we can't push on a string, the women can't either.

There is no future unless the parties accommodate each other naturally without working at it. Just my opinion.

[Literal2]

When a SB is ready to go to the FC I will ask her tactfully what she expects from our time together besides a good time and multiple orgasms. The answer also tells me a lot about the type of girl I am dealing with. I usually get a little giggle and find that the responses fall into one of five categories:

You are an amazing analyst Nando as well as a prolific multifucker.

Personally, I don't ask them anything other than,"Does this feel good?" and "Am I hurting you?" and "Is it ok if I cum in your mouth?" (when appropriate).

Maybe I'm in a rut. My project is floundering around, Ms Wham Bam hasn't even responded to my "Can I fuck you and your girlfriend together?" question. I'm scheduled to see sb 18 tomorrow, my sweet little college student, but unless I fuck her in the closet or upside down there won't be anything new. One of the sbs from about a month ago is emailing me every day about how she can't wait to get together. She is * ahhh * not so smart and a little bit fat in the belly but very loose, slippery, aroused and female in all her body parts when we are together.

Maybe I should pursue another 5 sbs on the website just to fuck a new girl. I figure its one in five now, It was 1 in 20 when I started.

[Literal2]

This is such a valuable thread that it is a shame it is buried in the Richmond forum (no offense to the Virginia posters). I wonder if Jackson would consider making it a national forum.

Thanks Questor. I'm sure this is a compliment and lord knows, I'm grateful to Jackson for setting all this up.

However, with respect, your post is kind of a distraction.

We sb mongers are in the middle of talking about suckin' on sweet sugarbabe pussies, which size sugarbabe tits are the best, should you fuck sugarbabe pregos, how to get amateur sugarbabes into the fucking chamber, what the average cost of spreading sugarbabe pussy for penetration is compared to a pro, are sugarbabes good referrals, how may times can you pop in a sugarbabe and in which body opening, and other important topics.

We have an A to Z on how to find and fuck sugarbabes. We have a 1 to 10 or whatever it is on how to fuck married women and others looking for affairs.

Nobody is really focusing on which usasg thread we belong to. Or in. Whatever.

Hopefully we can get back to the main discussion topic, fucking sugarbabes, pretty quick.

[KC Questor]

This is such a valuable thread that it is a shame it is buried in the Richmond forum (no offense to the Virginia posters). I wonder if Jackson would consider making it a national forum.

[Hernando]

When a SB is ready to go to the FC I will ask her tactfully what she expects from our time together besides a good time and multiple orgasms. The answer also tells me a lot about the type of girl I am dealing with. I usually get a little giggle and find that the responses fall into one of five categories:

1)" XX Dollars".usually the pro or experienced semipro.Nando class 2 or 3 They will come back because they got what they think they are worth;

2)"I need to pay my car repair bill, rent, electric bill, child support, bail." You fill in the blank on that one.This usually runs in the upper 100s to $1000 plus."just this one time " Then they follow with $ XX / month.Nando class 1/3-I have learned to run from this one because it is a bottomless pit.they will always come back in between visits for more. A story.One of my fails involved a girl I was heavily texting and she was hot to trot. She is currently on the local board as we speak. She required $1600 for her car repair to get to my locale then $300 / visit. After I finished laughing I told her she needed to keep looking.maybe one of you got her car fixed? ;

3)"I don't know.I'm new to this ".N3/4 I love this group and feel that they are new and not greedy yet or experienced players and hoping for a blindly generous sperm donor. This is the girl I leave an envelope in her purse.usually $$ plus room. You don't need to salt them more than that. If you are giving more you can never go back down and are spoiling her for everybody else. A super special girl you want to keep to yourself you can always give more plus give treats, gifts, etc. Or negotiate a monthly allowance. This category is my favorite but also the source of my fails as well. When I don't "guess" the correct donation but she has one in mind.then they are gone.

4)"nothing ".I now think differently about these girls.N / 4 Maybe you do get what you pay for but I am not impressed with any of the N4s I have met. They are fun 1 timers but not keepers IMHO.

5) $$$/month-N3/4 These girls are usually experienced SB 's and have a track record with a Daddy and are trying to find a new one. Their affordability depends on how much Daddy gave them before and what they are used to.and what you can afford. I get the idea that most of the guys here are into variety and multiple babies.the serial banger, which I have been in and now have evolved to this category. My SB is a pay as I come right now but I spend most of my budget on her right now, and I believe she is monogamous with me.anyone know her? LOL Who the heck knows / But that pussy is sweet and fresh and she is available anytime I want her.so. I'm happy for now. I also know that nothing is forever and I am ready to jump back into the fray the minute she moves, finds a better donor, or I get bored.

[Literal2]

*** Sugar Baby pussy sure is sweeter!

I do agree with this. Sweeter, fresher, hotter, juicier, all that stuff.

I think we've all learned a lot from each other on this thread. I know I have.

Please keep us posted on your experiences, Cool.

[Literal2]

First off, of many of the sites I've been on, it requires the most work and usually the most money per successful conquest. I've had more luck when I've traveled using AM, but not using the traveling man feature. It's important to have a full account.

1. *

This is really great. What a guide. Thank you very much.

In my case I may not be skilled enough or patient enough for AM. I think I would start getting nervous about a quarter of the way through the guide, but I may try it anyway.

As I said earlier, my approach recently to girls who want to be sbs is to invite them to the Fucking Chamber. If they enter it, I fuck them. If they decline the invitation, I move on. This obviously work work on AM.

[Literal2]

We might have a SB interested in meeting some of our friends and not know it (more likely) or we might have friends we think would be interested in her. Each of us is reluctant to bring the subject up.

I've never gone down this path myself and wouldn't. There's only one way for it to turn out but several ways it could backfire. With women things are unpredictable. The status quo could certainly change in the eyes of someone.

Golf, I gave out a couple contacts several weeks ago but I know one was a dud for the monger and I never heard back from the other so I suspect it was the same. I D must be carefully masked in these situations. It may be that sbs are not good candidates for referrals because each mongers style is so individualistic what causes one sb to open her pussy may turn the next one off.

[Literal2]

I have 2-5 girls in contact at any given time when I'm active and get at least one date per week out of it, and up to daily if I push it (which I find rather exhausting). I enjoy the non-pro SB chase to some extend (it's a bigger feeling of success) and don't mind starting with a platonic date, take her out for dinner and chit chat. I am not good looking at all, balding, too much belly, but I am genuinely nice, smile a lot and make the girl the center of attention, listen rather than talk and I keep my word, which is a powerful persuasion. I am also upfront and honest ("whereas I understand that we won't hop into bed right away, I would be dishonest if I didn't admit that I do want a physical relationship". Gets me laid every time).

This a sophisticated variant of sb seduction tech. I think your magic line re physical relationship is a good one and will try it some time.

Personally, I'm mainly a face, waist and ass man with boobs a distant fourth place. If they've got nipples, I'll suck 'them, I'll rub my dick on them, I don't care what size they are. I don't mind bolt ons on a young girl, but hate them when they age. I've never been with a black girl, but was tempted by a Richmond BP over 18 HS senior a few months back. She couldn't schedule me around her homework, she said. Also, I've never been with a prego, never even considered it, but what makes sex so powerful is that different things turn different people on. Thanks for participating. Rock on.

[Literal2]

Therein lies the problem. Lit hit the nail on the head.

I budget $1-2 000 / month to play depending on the quality of babies available to me, so if I oversupply one girl the volume goes down. I require about 2-3 dates / week, so I have to be careful with each one. And I like to have $ left over to buy gifts and treats on top of the envelope at the end of the night.

You are getting excellent value for your budget inmo. That's a lot of fucking on a regular basis, I'm impressed. If I read you right you don't discuss sugar upfront usually either (I don't now I know it's often not necessary). This means one advantage of sbs, because there are so many of them out there, is that you can fuck a lot of different girls for relatively little money because they won't insist on knowing what the sugar is upfront, and if they don't like it, you're on to the next one. On the other hand if you want a reliable stable of proven steamy hot amateur vaginas to service whenever you feel like it, you probably have to increase the sugar. We live and learn. Thanks for your disclosures.

[Coolhand2]

I've decided that with my four trips a month, I'm going to try and have a two girl rotation. Right now, that would be CSB8 (41 yr old. 5'6, nurse MILF) and CSB10 (25 yr old. 5'7) if I can get a repeat. I can keep SB9 (28 yr old. 5'2, in Navy) because she's close enough that I won't have to use any of my trips. She's already said she wants to meet again. I've got four others ready to meet (21, 25, 26, and 38 yrs old) and I'm going to try to use them as filler if the designated two can't meet or drop out of the rotation. I know that I'll only be able to keep them pending for so long til they lose interest but as long as it's working with the two, why push it.

I'd like to point out that this was not the problem I was having 60 days ago. Then I couldn't get a meeting or get a girl to keep a meeting. I give total credit to my change in fortune to the tips that I have got from this thread. In particular the advice from Lit. I have also received advice by PM from members that was very helpful. I still don't post or send a picture, but to my knowledge, this has not been a deal breaker. The description I supply seems to keep that issue at bay. (I am going to look into the close fake pic) The kindlier, gentler, don't-push-the-string approach has worked wonders for me.

One more thing: they're not cheaper, they may not be better, but that Sugar Baby pussy sure is sweeter!

[BigTigger]

First off, of many of the sites I've been on, it requires the most work and usually the most money per successful conquest. I've had more luck when I've traveled using AM, but not using the traveling man feature. It's important to have a full account.

1. Make sure to have a pic on the main profile, even if it's not yours.

2. Have real pics of you inside the keys section. Make sure to include a full body pic, clothe or nude, but do not show your goods and *Do not include a dic-pic. Even though everyone is there for sex, women like to the game to be such to where it's not so bloody obvious.

3. Read the profile, if it exists. Make sure your email to them includes something from their profile. Also include your email address and your keys.

4. Be funny and engaging in your first email. Women want a stress free and drama free experience. If you can make them laugh, then you are on you way to some "legs in the air" "funny sound making" hot hotel experiences.

5. Make sure you have a legitimate profile. I took to time to create a profile in word. Save it and use if for all sites. Modifying of course where necessary.

6. Unless she has seeking SD on her profile, show true interest in who she is as a person and her likes / dislikes. If she is seeking a SD. Then you don't have to work so hard on impressing her.

7. Pay attention, take notes if you need to. But make sure if you get a second chance to speak, that you use your notes to drive the conversation or as part of your flirting.

8. If she is married, always approach every meeting, conversation or phone call from the perspective of helping her keep her privacy.

9. Make sure to get out the majic words in one way or another, I recommend while in a joke. Example "no my friend, I don't smoke and I don't drink, I'm your typical nice guy, but if you let me, I'll do my best to screw your brains out". (of note. I did not use curse words.)

10. On AM you are outnumbered, always try to find a way to stand out.

11. Be responsive, but not stalker type.

12. Don't speak overt interest too soon. Give her a chance to tell a few stories and laugh some before you say things like."I like you, I think we'll get along well". Even if you don't mean it, it should be in response to her whimsical ramblings.

13. Finally, all women have insecurities. Make sure to affirm, listen and reaffirm. Make sure to sneak in compliments consistently. Have a mixture of the bold and the subtle. (Subtle Exampe: "I understand that you can get overwhelmed with the amount of emails, but it has to be even more so overwhelming when they can clearly see how pretty you are".

Another example: I was talking to a MILF of mine and we were trying to figure out the timing for the hotel stay. One of the scenarios required me to leave around 5am. I said "Do you really think I'm going to have the will power to get out of bed with you, with all that you have going on, at 5am in the morning. I'm not leaving until you are". Even she complimented me on that line.

14. Ok the real last point. Don't forget to make sure she knows your long range (after 1st date) plans are to make her toes curl. Don't forget that the woman wants to have sex too, but she want to think it's her idea, she wants to believe it's going to be good and she wants to hear in subtle ways that you think she is more than fuck worthy.