"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[Zcochran00]

First time caller, long time listener.

Let me first say I've been reading through this amazing thread for a few months in my spare time. I am around page 730. Obviously I have a ways to go, but I have been taking notes as I've gone. It is interesting to see the ebb and flow of everyone. Grand Daddy Lit2, F Scott, Nando, Revvo, SubCmdr. Pretty entertaining, and above all, informative! I compare those to the giant's whose shoulders we stand upon. Please, don't let me know if they are still around because that will spoil the surprise.

So, I got a bit ahead of myself after doing some basic math and realizing that I wouldn't get caught up until 2020 and signed up for SA.

My first night I had an SB contact me, agree to a M&G that same night with the possibility of a trip to the FC. Maybe a UTR, but exhilarating nonetheless. Unfortunately, I was a few drinks in and no condition to go anywhere so I passed. I also screwed up the negotiation, and while it wasn't out of my price range, it was darn near the top. I understand if you have money this is easy, but what is the fun in that?

Re-reading through my notes and through the "archive" thread I realized that a big gap in my understanding is something terribly basic. What is the purpose of your profile and what should go in there?

I'm partial to HG's explanation in his 4 step email process that what we are trying to do is initiate an off-site line of communication, pre-qualify them based on what you're looking for, and agree to at least a M&G if everything checks out.

The initial contact has them going to your profile and then emailing you if they like what they see. I understand that the general purpose it to convert profile views to emails in the inbox, but not much has been said about the contents, outside of don't be explicit or crude. Should it be short and sweet? Generalizations of what is in your pre-qualifying emails? Some fantasy pie in the sky BS like the SBs?

I'm trying to understand where in the puzzle the profile fits.

Anyway, that's it for now. I look forward to contributing to this great piece of internet history.

I started off with HG's approach for contacting, but I've since simplified it down conceptually:

- If contacting them first: hey, saw your profile, seems like we're both looking for something NSA and beneficial. Check out my profile and get back to me.

- What are your main reasons for being on here?

- I'm looking for something fun, intimate, with a connection, and I can help out. Interested?

If yes, then here's my contact info.

The actual paragraphs I use are noticeably longer than that, but that's the basic message.

My profile itself actually a straight-up legit description of my personality and interests. Not overly detailed, but long enough to show I'm an actual person with some depth to me.

Not going to say that either of these is the "right" way to do things, and my success rate isn't anywhere as high as some of the folks who have posted in this thread, but I'm a pretty straightforward kind of guy and that's how I've approached it. FWIW, I _have_ had a number of contacts saying "I really liked your profile".

[Walruscl]

I know this comes around every few months, and partially my fault. As background, after having my LTSB of 5 years leave me on a whim last summer, my depression had me losing weight like crazy, and I upped my workout routine accordingly. 20 lbs later and with a definitively better-than-dad-bod physique, I am seeing at least some intangibles.

Data point one: fairly early in my current SB's relationship I asked how old I looked. I'm low-50's but she pegged me for mid-forties. When I asked about my personality, she pegged mid-30's. Which to me it meant wisdom and experience without be dragged down by age.

Data point two: recently was invited to my SB's burlesque show where she would have friends, her GF, and even her dad there. Obviously interacting with dear-old-only-two-years-older-than-me dad was not an option. And dear-old-dad has only two years on me but looks ten years older. But I saw the interaction where my SB pointed me out of the crowd to her GF. Later I would find out that the verdict was that "he's cute!

A bit off-topic, but I just got back from a FetLife Kink / Swinger event. Lots of older, unattractive folk there, but at least the equipment works. Also have to have a new kind of game where the play is the networking and building relationships with the leaders of each tribe. Decided to pursue (with some promise) one of the more attractive ones, which sadly isn't saying much. But she wanted to know how old I was, and I told her (she's an even 50) and the response was "Wow! You're older than me! So I asked her to peg my age, and she guessed low 40's.

This is the benefit of hitting the gym, losing the 20 lbs. , paying attention to your clothing and hairstyle. All these things can literally subtract ten years off your looks. And in the bowl, while you have lots of POTS attracted to older guys, no need to push the envelope on that. You want the older gentlemen to be the demeanor in which you treat her, while projecting as youthful and virile vibe as possible.

[Cruzier1]

First time caller, long time listener.

Let me first say I've been reading through this amazing thread for a few months in my spare time. I am around page 730. Obviously I have a ways to go, but I have been taking notes as I've gone. It is interesting to see the ebb and flow of everyone. Grand Daddy Lit2, F Scott, Nando, Revvo, SubCmdr. Pretty entertaining, and above all, informative! I compare those to the giant's whose shoulders we stand upon. Please, don't let me know if they are still around because that will spoil the surprise.

So, I got a bit ahead of myself after doing some basic math and realizing that I wouldn't get caught up until 2020 and signed up for SA.

My first night I had an SB contact me, agree to a M&G that same night with the possibility of a trip to the FC. Maybe a UTR, but exhilarating nonetheless. Unfortunately, I was a few drinks in and no condition to go anywhere so I passed. I also screwed up the negotiation, and while it wasn't out of my price range, it was darn near the top. I understand if you have money this is easy, but what is the fun in that?

Re-reading through my notes and through the "archive" thread I realized that a big gap in my understanding is something terribly basic. What is the purpose of your profile and what should go in there?

I'm partial to HG's explanation in his 4 step email process that what we are trying to do is initiate an off-site line of communication, pre-qualify them based on what you're looking for, and agree to at least a M&G if everything checks out.

The initial contact has them going to your profile and then emailing you if they like what they see. I understand that the general purpose it to convert profile views to emails in the inbox, but not much has been said about the contents, outside of don't be explicit or crude. Should it be short and sweet? Generalizations of what is in your pre-qualifying emails? Some fantasy pie in the sky BS like the SBs?

I'm trying to understand where in the puzzle the profile fits.

Anyway, that's it for now. I look forward to contributing to this great piece of internet history.

[DogBert77]

As opposed to the cost of your wife finding a hotel charge on your credit card statement. Don't be Penny wise, and pounding-Sugar-Babies foolish.

So you're more concerned about how some 20 something front desk dope -- who doesn't care if you are fucking goats, so long as you don't ruin the sheets or smoke in your room -- views you vs the risk of having your wife find a transaction somewhere becasue that same dope was distracted watching youtube and ran your card 3 x by mistake? But at least you feel like a fine upstanding citizen in the eyes of Joe Hampton Inn while you drill three holes of a girl half your age for money and your wife none the wiser. For now. Puleez.

Ernie,

You sure have a way with words. I do have this tendency to be penny wise and pounding foolish. Point well taken. If a POT needs another drink to get in the mood, no sweat. But I am used to getting all sorts of perks and upgrades on travel, so having to pay for debit card grates on me. And being out $150 due to lack of security really chafes my ass. But I take your point. One minor point, just for the record. Any girl half my age is over the hill! I only go for the young ones.

Can you elaborate on the Hotels.com deposit? Are you saying that if you book through Hotels.com any participating hotel will know that they have agreed to accept a deposit in cash? Or are you saying that you can use a $100 Hotels.com gift card at any hotel booked through Hotels.com? I am a skeptical that all the desks clerks will know this. Is this something you can do online in advance? Also, I usually can only play in the day so use Dayuse.com a lot. Any input on deposits that is more generally applicable is appreciated.

[FarFarAway]

Responding to the thread generally, don't be penny-wise and pound foolish. It is a cost of being in the bowl that you might lose a little $ at times from a deposit charged against a card that wasn't refunded after you pay cash. I made this mistake, keeping a receipt to 'prove' I had paid the cash (while SO out of town) at a FC hotel, then forgetting about it. It turned up later and nearly cost the king his kingdom.

I used to have a AmEx debit card, reloadable, I used for hotel deposits, and never really had to reload it. Many hotels require something like that, w / your realname on it, not a prepaid debit card, for deposits. However, when I had to go totally submarine on the hotels, I closed that account. Now, the SB gets the room or we don't FC.

Just an analogy. So you go to the drugstore for condoms, they don't have 3-packs of your favorite brand, they only have 12-packs. So you spring for the dozen, then you take the extras home afterward for the 'next time' . Right? LOL.

[Ernest Ll]

One other thing with respect to hotels to be aware of and consider. I have gotten Christmas cards and thank you notes from hotels in the Hilton family at the address on file after a stay. Luckily the cards and notes were for business related travel but it did cause me to change the address on file to my office.

When you book on Hotels.com or other OTA, you don't put in your address but the front desk will take it off your license. Two ways to prevent -- 1 - ask them to put in your business address since this is a business expense. 2 - give them a phony address altogether with the same excuse.

When you book through a hotel brand site, you can pay using generic gift cards, and can put in any address you want. When you check in and they check I'd, if they ask about the discrepancy, tell them "I've moved but haven't updated my license" or "that's the office address on my Res".

NEVER try to earn points on a sugar hotel stay -- another reason to have your regular SB do the booking. Mine used Hotels.com and got a free fuck stay for us after 10 sugar sessions.

[Ernest Ll]

Hotels are definitely one of the biggest risks to operational security. I have gotten into the habit of reserving them in my real name, either through Dayuse.com or Hotels.com. When I check in, I show my driver's license and give them a Platinum American Express card. I tell them I will pay with cash, either on check or check out. Some of them place a hold on the credit card for the whole price of the room plus $50 for incidentals, others only do the $50 for incidentals. All of them accept cash for the room without issues, although sometimes they have to hunt around for change since no one uses cash anymore. The hold is always removed, sometimes immediately, sometimes it takes up to five days. Until it is removed, it shows as a "pending charge" on my account, then it disappears completely. While it is showing pending, it creates a security risk, but only I have online access to the account so this has not been a problem (yet).

Anotehr reason for using Hotels.com. You can give them a $100 cash deposit for incidentals on check in. Again, if you find the right SB, you can give her the Hotels.com card number, have her book in her name and give her card for incidentals for which their will be none.

Recently I stayed at a Hilton affiliate using the above procedure, at a hotel I had used before and it worked fine the previous time. This time, a few days after my stay, instead of clearing the pending charge on my account, they charged it. I think whoever did that immediately realized they screwed up, and tried again, which resulted in them charging it again. Then they gave me a credit in the same amount, again doing it twice. The net result is no charge, but a paper trail on the statement that is a flashing neon sign for the warden. I intercepted the paper statement before my wife saw it, and have changed my settings to paperless. But my wife has been in the habit of paying all our bills, as she is more reliable at doing this on time than I am. So this will be a change in process that may itself be a red flag.

The same sort of red flag can result if there is any charge that you don't clear at check out, like a move, music or wifi in the room. So using a credit card definitely carries risk.

Changing to Estatments does not matter if she logs into the account and looks at charges as my wife has done when looking to return something. Again, gift cards. Many hotels won't accept generic gift cards at check in due to high incidences of fraud.

I like the idea of paying with gift cards, and especially Ernest Li's suggestion for Hotels.com gift cards at 5% off. But I have a couple of issues I would like you guys' input on. (1) Gift cards seem inherently less secure than a credit card. Anyone who gets your number can basically drain it, and I am not sure how cooperative the issuer is going to be in giving you a chargeback.

As opposed to the cost of your wife finding a hotel charge on your credit card statement. Don't be Penny wise, and pounding-Sugar-Babies foolish.

C.

(2) Some hotels have signs saying that if you use a debit card for the deposit, it may take much longer for the refund to be processed as compared to a credit card, again up to 60-90 days. I am curious as to other guys experience with this.

Up to, is just covering their ass in legalese. Again, do everythign possible to avoid any electronic transactions to account linkable to you.

(3) This is kind of hard to pin down, but I feel that when you are paying with cash the front desk immediately views you as sort of sketchy, and using a gift card for the deposit is only going to make that worse. When I use a solid credit card, I feel that it sort of smooths the whole transaction. Again, this is just feeling, and I can't really point to anything concrete.

So you're more concerned about how some 20 something front desk dope -- who doesn't care if you are fucking goats, so long as you don't ruin the sheets or smoke in your room -- views you vs the risk of having your wife find a transaction somewhere becasue that same dope was distracted watching youtube and ran your card 3 x by mistake? But at least you feel like a fine upstanding citizen in the eyes of Joe Hampton Inn while you drill three holes of a girl half your age for money and your wife none the wiser. For now. Puleez.

[VeryBigBuck]

One other thing with respect to hotels to be aware of and consider. I have gotten Christmas cards and thank you notes from hotels in the Hilton family at the address on file after a stay. Luckily the cards and notes were for business related travel but it did cause me to change the address on file to my office.

[DogBert77]

Hotels are definitely one of the biggest risks to operational security. I have gotten into the habit of reserving them in my real name, either through Dayuse.com or Hotels.com. When I check in, I show my driver's license and give them a Platinum American Express card. I tell them I will pay with cash, either on check or check out. Some of them place a hold on the credit card for the whole price of the room plus $50 for incidentals, others only do the $50 for incidentals. All of them accept cash for the room without issues, although sometimes they have to hunt around for change since no one uses cash anymore. The hold is always removed, sometimes immediately, sometimes it takes up to five days. Until it is removed, it shows as a "pending charge" on my account, then it disappears completely. While it is showing pending, it creates a security risk, but only I have online access to the account so this has not been a problem (yet).

Recently I stayed at a Hilton affiliate using the above procedure, at a hotel I had used before and it worked fine the previous time. This time, a few days after my stay, instead of clearing the pending charge on my account, they charged it. I think whoever did that immediately realized they screwed up, and tried again, which resulted in them charging it again. Then they gave me a credit in the same amount, again doing it twice. The net result is no charge, but a paper trail on the statement that is a flashing neon sign for the warden. I intercepted the paper statement before my wife saw it, and have changed my settings to paperless. But my wife has been in the habit of paying all our bills, as she is more reliable at doing this on time than I am. So this will be a change in process that may itself be a red flag.

The same sort of red flag can result if there is any charge that you don't clear at check out, like a move, music or wifi in the room. So using a credit card definitely carries risk.

I like the idea of paying with gift cards, and especially Ernest Li's suggestion for Hotels.com gift cards at 5% off. But I have a couple of issues I would like you guys' input on. (1) Gift cards seem inherently less secure than a credit card. Anyone who gets your number can basically drain it, and I am not sure how cooperative the issuer is going to be in giving you a chargeback. I have this problem on a OneVanilla card right now. I put $500 on it to use for SA, my burner phone, etc. I figured by putting $500 (the max) on it instead of $100 at a time, the fee percentage would be minimized. Well, someone somehow hacked it and charged a bogus $150 on it. I have started the refund request from OneVanilla, but they said it may take 60-90 days to process and I don't have a lot of confidence in it. (2) Some hotels have signs saying that if you use a debit card for the deposit, it may take much longer for the refund to be processed as compared to a credit card, again up to 60-90 days. I am curious as to other guys experience with this. (3) This is kind of hard to pin down, but I feel that when you are paying with cash the front desk immediately views you as sort of sketchy, and using a gift card for the deposit is only going to make that worse. When I use a solid credit card, I feel that it sort of smooths the whole transaction. Again, this is just feeling, and I can't really point to anything concrete.

Really interested in hearing others' experience with gift cards at hotels, and especially with using them for the deposit when paying with cash.

[Ernest Ll]

If any of you guys sugar in DC, Kimpton is now part of the IHG family and they've got some amazing hotels in DC. All boutique hotels, each one different & quirky, all with bar / restaurant and on off times they're on Hotwire dirt cheap (for DC that is). The SB's seem to really like them.

They are pretty cool hotels and when the price is right, no better place for a 20 something to get turned on. Many of them really do crave new and unique experiences, That they could never afford dating their peers. And the food and beverage component give you Hipster cred That you desperately need when you're 20 years their senior.

Don't take the girl to the comp wine hour each night from 5-6 -- don't want to appear cheap.

They also have pretty cool furniture for your creativity as well as well-placed mirrors. Make sure you visit the fitness center before she arrives and borrow the big bouncy ball-it's like having sex in a weightless environment which is great for preventing cramps, and joint pain from the strain of trying to give a young hottie all you are worth!

From a security standpoint, don't leave her alone in the room because your name will show up on the TV screen when you turn it on and the front desk is trained to answer the phone acknowledging you by name.

[Bill Cullen]

I use IHG, which serves Holiday Inns and others, racking up points leads to things like 10 am check-ins or 3 PM checkouts, along with free / discounted stays. I use one CC that only does online statements and uses a fingerprint to unlock the app. I might change the CC to one that I can maximize other benny's like miles or other purchases, makes sugaring a little more manageable financially.

If any of you guys sugar in DC, Kimpton is now part of the IHG family and they've got some amazing hotels in DC. All boutique hotels, each one different & quirky, all with bar / restaurant and on off times they're on Hotwire dirt cheap (for DC that is). The SB's seem to really like them.

[ChrisCarr]

I stay primarily at Choice Hotels for work because they have so many different brands & I feel the quickest program for free nights. If I can't justify staying at a hotel for work & have a SB / provider make a visit, I can always use points.

My second most used chain is Hilton but it's a lot of points for a free room, often 30,000 vs 8,000 at a nice Comfort Suites vs say a Hampton Inn.

Surprisingly, I've been Sugaring lately with a new Baby in Roanoke and the Mainstay Suites is really nice. Two room suite with a king size bed, at end of hall, which is my preference. The only downside is a very chatty, nosy lady at the front desk on days.

No one has my log on for my accounts so no worries about privacy. If your trying to stay UTR with your bookings is pretty tough.

Most places I stay require an I'd & credit card. Any places that accept cash are nasty & I won't stay there.

Of my three current SBs one has her own place which is a big plus, but a four year old daughter that makes it tough to spend very much time there.

I use IHG, which serves Holiday Inns and others, racking up points leads to things like 10 am check-ins or 3 PM checkouts, along with free / discounted stays. I use one CC that only does online statements and uses a fingerprint to unlock the app. I might change the CC to one that I can maximize other benny's like miles or other purchases, makes sugaring a little more manageable financially.

[DoggieFan]

I agree with most of the above. The only thing I will add is that if you travel a lot for work, and you don't plan on letting her stay overnight, it pays to pick a brand and stick with it.

if you get high enough status you get free upgrades. Suites = more places to play.

- booking directly through the site and using its app allows easy check in and check out.

- you can use points if a room is otherwise prohibitively expensive (downtown and midweek).

- they usually have a wide range of hotel types across many price points depending on who you are trying to impress.

However you also need to keep in mind they will keep records of all those local stays on your profile so you need to lock that shit down. Or have a decent excuse if it is ever uncovered.

I stay primarily at Choice Hotels for work because they have so many different brands & I feel the quickest program for free nights. If I can't justify staying at a hotel for work & have a SB / provider make a visit, I can always use points.

My second most used chain is Hilton but it's a lot of points for a free room, often 30,000 vs 8,000 at a nice Comfort Suites vs say a Hampton Inn.

Surprisingly, I've been Sugaring lately with a new Baby in Roanoke and the Mainstay Suites is really nice. Two room suite with a king size bed, at end of hall, which is my preference. The only downside is a very chatty, nosy lady at the front desk on days.

No one has my log on for my accounts so no worries about privacy. If your trying to stay UTR with your bookings is pretty tough.

Most places I stay require an I'd & credit card. Any places that accept cash are nasty & I won't stay there.

Of my three current SBs one has her own place which is a big plus, but a four year old daughter that makes it tough to spend very much time there.

[Member #6951]

I agree with most of the above. The only thing I will add is that if you travel a lot for work, and you don't plan on letting her stay overnight, it pays to pick a brand and stick with it.

- if you get high enough status you get free upgrades. Suites = more places to play.

- booking directly through the site and using its app allows easy check in and check out.

- you can use points if a room is otherwise prohibitively expensive (downtown and midweek).

- they usually have a wide range of hotel types across many price points depending on who you are trying to impress.

However you also need to keep in mind they will keep records of all those local stays on your profile so you need to lock that shit down. Or have a decent excuse if it is ever uncovered.

[Ernest Ll]

To give you some context, I'm a consultant to the hospitality industry and was a top level frequent guest at Hyatt and Starwood for years and 99% of my Sugar fun has been in hotels.

My issue is that my "cray-dar" is going off a bit. I think she has the potential to be high drama and possibly cause issues. For this reason, I don't want to take her to my place straight away. So I'm thinking hotel.

Go to SamsClub and buy Hotels.com gift cards -- $100 for $95. Have her book the room in her name, but you give her the GC -- or can even text her the GC # and she can enter it on the site. She will need to show her I'd and usually has to give a credit card for incidentals (like damage to the room when her baby daddy tracks her down and beats you with the lamp) If she wants to stay the night she can. Your personal info is safe, you are financially protected. you may have to reassure her that providing a credit card at check-in does not result in any charges, the hotel just need to issue orders a shift on the room service or dirty movies.

How do you guys handle the logistics of checking in? I'm sure the front desk clerk knows what's up if a couple turns up in the evening without a reservation and asks for a room. If you're in a bar with a POT and you both decide to get a room, do you book online on your phone and then show up 15 minutes later and check in?

A) Clerks don't care, unless she is totally smokin hot and they have a peephole in the room. B) reason #2 for her to book in her name -- allows you to enter separately and gives her time to freshen up / change into lingerie. She can text you the room # once she is in and ready for your dick.

What about checking out? She won't likely be able to spend the night, so how do you handle only using the room for a few hours? Do you check out? Just leave and let the hotel realize you left the next day? Both check out together looking disheveled and freshly fucked, and just own it?

No need to check out. If you leave, they will turn the room at Noon the next day unless you extend your stay or leave luggage in the room and then they will call the # on the reservation and ask your intentions. your intentions. You should also suggest to her meeting again the next morning. You have the room overnight, when I meet at 930 for another round before 11 o'clock check out? I've always taken the second room key with me so I can either get in the room before her, where she does stay over the night I can let myself in to the room -- and nudge her awake with my hard on. I've also set up morning-after dates with a different SB if I have the room key. Just make sure you tell her not to check out and you check the room for cum crusted towels or condom wrappers or other signs of the previous day's activities.

NEVER leave a strange woman alone in a hotel room booked in your name. Don't give her the key to go up ahead of you. Too many hotels have video checkout, and just turning on the TV will reveal the name the room is registered to. Or she can call them at the front desk and they will greet her by the name the room is registered to. Or if you are traveling and meet someone on the road, chances are your luggage is in the room with a tag on it.

If some nervous clerk tries to make conversation and asks why are you staying at a hotel if you live in town, tell them you're having some plumbing work done, houses getting fumigated, you've moved away and are just back in town for a couple of days but haven't updated your driver's license. Lots of plausible reasons to deal with innocuous inquries / small talk. The clerks don't care if you're banging someone so long as it's legal.