Rants, Raves and Opinions AKA "The Octagon"

[ItsTimeToEat]

On your next visit when you think "It's Time To Eat" you might find yourself as an unwilling cuckhold. She loves dancing in the rain without a raincoat with special friends, especially right after her fix. Plus you never know when the BF last had her. I suggest you bring douche with your $.

The handle "itstimetoeat" has nothing to do with eating pussy. It is a racing term.

[Admin2]

This is the realization that the continuation of a behavior that is detrimental to your existence makes you want to "Do what it takes" to change. It's the day you stop bull shitting everyone in your life including yourself and you finally act on changing your behavior. You call it "Want" and I call it wanting to make a "Choice" to change. I guess I simplified a deep visceral thing.

I personally had a behavior which was not the result of taking an external substance. My behavior gave me an endorphin high. I loved this High, but it wasn't until the "light bulb turned on" that I made the choice to "Do what it takes" to change my behavior. I didn't go through typical withdrawls like drug addicts but the loss of the endorphin high was just as difficult and caused severe mental withdrawls. I guess in your terms I "Wanted" to "do what it takes" however by my terminology, I made the choice to change my behavior because it was more painful than the pleasure of the endorphin high.

You are trying to map your experience to theirs and you are really making this more intellectual than I've ever seen it. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I'm saying in over three decades I've never seen this happen as a "realization that the continuation of a behavior" bubba that assumes way fucking more mental gymnastics that the average junkie in the throes of addiction is capable of. I know it sits better with you to keep re-framing this as a choice and for a couple it might be, I've just never met that couple of people.

Its really tough for non addicts to understand what addiction feels like. There might have been some stuff you did that you ended up not liking so much so you quit it. I personally get a kick out of people that say "I tried that and didn't like it so I didn't do it again. " As an addict I'm always thinking "what the fuck does like have to do with it?" I shot a whole lot of dope after I fucking hated doing it. I tell people who ask me that addiction is like this terrible itch inside your brain, that will only go away by doing something. When I was quitting smoking (1. 5 years now) I used to get sooooooooo fucking pissed off with the people who insisted that "most cravings go away in 5 minutes" I literally wanted to kick them in the balls. I don't get cravings, I get fucking obsessions that don't go away, they just get stronger the longer I don't do the thing my brain is screaming for.

A2.

[Alaska Tom]

I think we are definitely on the same page because anybody can do it but they have to, as you say, "Want" to do it. The recovering addicts that I know either hit "Rock Bottom" the loss of everything or the pain of their behavior of using became greater than the pleasure the behavior was giving them. Many of the addicts I know struggled with emotional / personal issues which caused them to mask the pain they could no longer bear to feel with the pleasure of the drug. Once the pain of using became greater than the pain they were hiding from, they "Wanted" to change. I call "wanting" change as the "Light bulb turning on" in your head. This is the realization that the continuation of a behavior that is detrimental to your existence makes you want to "Do what it takes" to change. It's the day you stop bull shitting everyone in your life including yourself and you finally act on changing your behavior. You call it "Want" and I call it wanting to make a "Choice" to change. I guess I simplified a deep visceral thing.

I personally had a behavior which was not the result of taking an external substance. My behavior gave me an endorphin high. I loved this High, but it wasn't until the "light bulb turned on" that I made the choice to "Do what it takes" to change my behavior. I didn't go through typical withdrawls like drug addicts but the loss of the endorphin high was just as difficult and caused severe mental withdrawls. I guess in your terms I "Wanted" to "do what it takes" however by my terminology, I made the choice to change my behavior because it was more painful than the pleasure of the endorphin high.

A great post, FF. There is a saying common in Alcoholics Anonymous that is similar: Some people come to AA when they see the light. Most of us get here when we feel the heat.

Alaska Tom.

[Member #6963]

I think it varies from person to person. Probably the best I've ever heard it put came from a guy who recognized me as an addict long before anybody else did. He said that when the pain or cost of a behavior (doesn't matter the behavior) gets greater than the benefit or pleasure of a behavior than there is room for change. He didn't say people would, he said there was room for it.

Without getting to "preachy" I personally think that there is also an element of something that some people call grace. I struggle with that because then it means that not anybody can do it and I think that anybody can so I don't really know.

I do know that it there is a big element of "want" involved. People got to want it, they got to want it bad, they got to want it more than dope but I don't think that happens on the same level as choice. It's not something that one comes to through logic nor reason, it's a visceral thing. It's emotional, it's mental, it's "spiritual" you got to have a hunger for a different life. You got to be willing to sacrifice and suffer. You got to be willing to say (again it's not really conscience, it's deeper) "I'll do what it takes," not "I'll do what I can. ".

I think we are definitely on the same page because anybody can do it but they have to, as you say, "Want" to do it. The recovering addicts that I know either hit "Rock Bottom" the loss of everything or the pain of their behavior of using became greater than the pleasure the behavior was giving them. Many of the addicts I know struggled with emotional / personal issues which caused them to mask the pain they could no longer bear to feel with the pleasure of the drug. Once the pain of using became greater than the pain they were hiding from, they "Wanted" to change. I call "wanting" change as the "Light bulb turning on" in your head. This is the realization that the continuation of a behavior that is detrimental to your existence makes you want to "Do what it takes" to change. It's the day you stop bull shitting everyone in your life including yourself and you finally act on changing your behavior. You call it "Want" and I call it wanting to make a "Choice" to change. I guess I simplified a deep visceral thing.

I personally had a behavior which was not the result of taking an external substance. My behavior gave me an endorphin high. I loved this High, but it wasn't until the "light bulb turned on" that I made the choice to "Do what it takes" to change my behavior. I didn't go through typical withdrawls like drug addicts but the loss of the endorphin high was just as difficult and caused severe mental withdrawls. I guess in your terms I "Wanted" to "do what it takes" however by my terminology, I made the choice to change my behavior because it was more painful than the pleasure of the endorphin high.

[BigGusDickUs55]

As someone who has been able to put past addictions to alcohol and nicotine behind me over 20 yrs ago. I grew up in a very addictive atmosphere with my close family members addicted to cigs alcohol coke pills ect ect. Avoiding addiction is first, but understanding how addiction effects the brain is the most important part. I added a link for anyone who wishes to try and gain a greater understanding and maybe help them with their addiction. Give the addict the info and if the addict what's to help themselves they will read it. All the headings in the link are links to the highlighted subjects. [URL]https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/where-addiction-meets-your-brain

[RogerOver]

The post I quoted, was BD responding to a guy sharing intel about Pro SB, potential rinsers, etc. Making distinctions among the girls he's contacted who are not what he would consider TRUE SB (guessing). I would guess that the only people who are entertained by BD and his stories must be guys who think he's doing this with girls who aren't SB pros. When he mentions money, it is almost always a trivial afterthought. The implication is clear: They aren't fucking him because of the money alone but because BD is such a skilled player.

Regarding hookers as a useful term: On some very simplified level, the first lady and the crackwhore on the street are "hookers". But I think that definition of the word has almost zero utility when defined this way. In reality, we can easily see that there's a spectrum. Everyone might quibble over where the lines are drawn, but it largely comes down to exclusivity and the nature of the transaction. How many dicks+money she chooses to take, vs money+dicks thrown her way.

Simplifying it broadly: 12-20 dicks a day, 8-10 dicks a day, 1-4 dicks a day, or 1 single solitary dick once or twice a week. Pretty big differences. Maybe you don't care. If so, then either you see any and all of them indiscriminately, or you see none of them. To do something else would indicate that you see those distinctions as well.

The Sugar guys probably operate under the assumption that there exists this specific kind of SB: The TRUE Sugar Baby. In theory, it's a girl who is exclusively taking money and dick from one guy. A financial transaction, true, but neither party is maximizing the utility of their pussy / money. She could make more money by fucking more dudes. He could get more variety and quantity of sex by looking elsewhere. Strictly, this doesn't make economic sense. This willing limitation is what, I believe, the SD wants.

It isn't just sex and sex isn't that simple. Pretending that it is would be ignoring reality, and most likely ignoring each of our personal experience. We've all probably been with a girl who depressed our dick into flaccidity upon experiencing evidence of the sad state of her life. Or who said "hurry up" and broke our stroke and ruined the session. Or even who just weren't that into it. Some guys can fuck a hole and cum. But this MUST not be the case for most guys, most of the time because the reports on action indicate otherwise. Guys here regularly make distinctions around this all the time. Clockwatcher, GFE, PSE, Rushed, Mechanical, etc. And Sugar threads have additional distinctions.

So while not disputed directly, pretending that all transaction-based sex is the same seems pointless.

And counting dicks. Add an extra one in for you. Do you have Asperger syndrome or something?

Reading your whole thing, you seem to have a case of the ass about guys that are getting laid. Why are you fixated on how they do it or how much they pay?

[RogerOver]

I've always found pithy sayings which ignore nuance and context in favor of comforting absolutes to be the domain of folksy idiots, but you might have a point.

Guys like blowjobs, but sometimes they like pussy. So they absolutely don't like blowjobs. Makes sense.

You're pretty much a dumb ass aren't you? All covered up in nuance and context. Quotes tend to exist because they stand the test of reality and time.

For instance, "ProVid is a fairly smart guy BUT no one listens to him because he's never actually fucked a girl and likes to heave his bullshit on everyone."

See how that works?

[ProVid]

Of course they are hookers. There's a financial transaction for pussy. Who's disputing that?

The post I quoted, was BD responding to a guy sharing intel about Pro SB, potential rinsers, etc. Making distinctions among the girls he's contacted who are not what he would consider TRUE SB (guessing). I would guess that the only people who are entertained by BD and his stories must be guys who think he's doing this with girls who aren't SB pros. When he mentions money, it is almost always a trivial afterthought. The implication is clear: They aren't fucking him because of the money alone but because BD is such a skilled player.

Regarding hookers as a useful term: On some very simplified level, the first lady and the crackwhore on the street are "hookers". But I think that definition of the word has almost zero utility when defined this way. In reality, we can easily see that there's a spectrum. Everyone might quibble over where the lines are drawn, but it largely comes down to exclusivity and the nature of the transaction. How many dicks+money she chooses to take, vs money+dicks thrown her way.

Simplifying it broadly: 12-20 dicks a day, 8-10 dicks a day, 1-4 dicks a day, or 1 single solitary dick once or twice a week. Pretty big differences. Maybe you don't care. If so, then either you see any and all of them indiscriminately, or you see none of them. To do something else would indicate that you see those distinctions as well.

The Sugar guys probably operate under the assumption that there exists this specific kind of SB: The TRUE Sugar Baby. In theory, it's a girl who is exclusively taking money and dick from one guy. A financial transaction, true, but neither party is maximizing the utility of their pussy / money. She could make more money by fucking more dudes. He could get more variety and quantity of sex by looking elsewhere. Strictly, this doesn't make economic sense. This willing limitation is what, I believe, the SD wants.

It isn't just sex and sex isn't that simple. Pretending that it is would be ignoring reality, and most likely ignoring each of our personal experience. We've all probably been with a girl who depressed our dick into flaccidity upon experiencing evidence of the sad state of her life. Or who said "hurry up" and broke our stroke and ruined the session. Or even who just weren't that into it. Some guys can fuck a hole and cum. But this MUST not be the case for most guys, most of the time because the reports on action indicate otherwise. Guys here regularly make distinctions around this all the time. Clockwatcher, GFE, PSE, Rushed, Mechanical, etc. And Sugar threads have additional distinctions.

So while not disputed directly, pretending that all transaction-based sex is the same seems pointless.

[ProVid]

There's a great saying. "nothing someone says before the word "but" really counts".
It's absolutely true.

I've always found pithy sayings which ignore nuance and context in favor of comforting absolutes to be the domain of folksy idiots, but you might have a point.

Guys like blowjobs, but sometimes they like pussy. So they absolutely don't like blowjobs. Makes sense.

[Admin2]

I only know what I have heard and experienced first hand. Besides hitting rock bottom or the pain of using becoming greater than the pain of being sober, what is your experience for the reason for change?

I think it varies from person to person. Probably the best I've ever heard it put came from a guy who recognized me as an addict long before anybody else did. He said that when the pain or cost of a behavior (doesn't matter the behavior) gets greater than the benefit or pleasure of a behavior than there is room for change. He didn't say people would, he said there was room for it.

Without getting to "preachy" I personally think that there is also an element of something that some people call grace. I struggle with that because then it means that not anybody can do it and I think that anybody can so I don't really know.

I do know that it there is a big element of "want" involved. People got to want it, they got to want it bad, they got to want it more than dope but I don't think that happens on the same level as choice. It's not something that one comes to through logic nor reason, it's a visceral thing. It's emotional, it's mental, it's "spiritual" you got to have a hunger for a different life. You got to be willing to sacrifice and suffer. You got to be willing to say (again it's not really conscience, it's deeper) "I'll do what it takes," not "I'll do what I can. ".

[Member #6963]

I've been clean longer than most if these chicks have been alive and I'm telling you, not suggesting, not saying maybe I'm telling you 100% that if you believe this then you know nothing about addiction nor recovery.

I'm not saying your heart isn't in the right place nor that you are a bad person, just saying that you think you know something when you don't.

A2.

I only know what I have heard and experienced first hand. Besides hitting rock bottom or the pain of using becoming greater than the pain of being sober, what is your experience for the reason for change?

[RogerOver]

Why do people say "I'm not going to argue with you" literally while they are arguing.

It's like guys who say "No offense intended" when CLEARLY offense was intended and it's just as clear they lack the intelligence and imagination to be sarcastic.

I don't understand this.

A2.

There's a great saying. "nothing someone says before the word "but" really counts".

It's absolutely true.

[RogerOver]

When you tell us all about how amazing your sugar game is going (which I guess is useful or interesting to a few guys), you have never mentioned that a fair share of the girls are pro SB. I. E. Basically just hookers. Not even broadly hooker-like (per A2's frustration). But actually hookers with lots of clients who are working a different angle. Not surprising (nobody talks that much bullshit when they are truly having that good of a time, because they are too busy having such a good time). But I think those guys who love your stories might have been taking you at your word.

You're like these idiot hookers on FB talking about. Repeatedly and very publicly insisting. They are in solid ride or die relationships. All the while sucking dick for money. Sure.

Of course they are hookers. There's a financial transaction for pussy. Who's disputing that?

[Hooter12]

Agree with A2 - There was a piece about this topic on 60 minutes. They showed brain images of addicts vs. Normal people. The brain chemistry literally changes and the way signals are processed, are very different in seasoned addicts. It bypasess the logical area and goes straight to decision mode (fight or flight kinda thing but not exactly that). Thus, its not a choice at all. It's physiology that makes them helpless after a while. Its a long long road back to normal physiology and in some cases, impossible! But don't take my word for it, just google that episode for fully accurate information.

Its not one answer for all addicts. Some, in fact most addicts that finally get off their drug of choice do it overtime without treatment. But this is not for all. It is different for all. I've been involved in this area for over 40 years now and it is different. An addict knows how it affects them and so they sometimes assume its how it is with all addicts. But not so. I've seen cases from every extreme. I've seen people who engaged in drugs over long periods and never got addicted at all. Granted that is rare but I've seen it. And I've seen addicts who got addicted literally from the first use and no matter how much they tried they kept going back to the drug. They had no control. So yes, your statement about some addicts and the brain physiology can be true. But certainly not for all and most likely not for most. That same physiology can be true for any long term use of any drug. Some do and can make the "choice" to get off the drug that has them. Some addicts find this hard to believe as it isn't how it is with them so for that group of addicts, yes the "choice" or "will power" is not an option. In my 40 years in this area I have found that once again, this isn't necessarily the norm. Addicts can, and have, made the successful choice to stop doing their drug of choice on their own. It wasn't easy, but they did it. Others can not do it.

[Member #6963]

Snowball much?

On your next visit when you think "It's Time To Eat" you might find yourself as an unwilling cuckhold. She loves dancing in the rain without a raincoat with special friends, especially right after her fix. Plus you never know when the BF last had her. I suggest you bring douche with your $.