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[QUOTE=Smallville1;1775765]So to be rather safe, can I offer a CG bucks to just strip in my room and then negotiate late? . Stripping means definitely no cop.[/QUOTE]I can't imagine the stings are done in Vegas. I would imagine that the jails would have a no vacancy sign, if they did.
[QUOTE=Manu410;1777466]I can't imagine the stings are done in Vegas. I would imagine that the jails would have a no vacancy sign, if they did.[/QUOTE]Stings are done all the time here. Metro Vice has sent decoys into places like the Bellagio and busted guys for solicitation. Nice way to make sure even more people never come back to Vegas.
[QUOTE=WildDeuces;1777627]Stings are done all the time here. Metro Vice has sent decoys into places like the Bellagio and busted guys for solicitation. Nice way to make sure even more people never come back to Vegas.[/QUOTE]Since this is your first post, lets just say doubtful. For normal CG, the police don't do a sting unless the hotel would ask (which they won't) or they suspect something else like hard RX.
The worst thing is some guys props a girl who is not a CD but a guest, and usually the hotel will just say your very attractive, sorry, and may comp them dinner. That was the story some of the office girls told who were clubbing and someone may a pass and offered money.
The hotels are quite capable of figuring out who is a CG and getting rid of them. The last thing they want is for daddy to get busted while mom and the kids are at a show that customer is not coming back. And neither will the hundred guys he tells.
[QUOTE=WildDeuces;1777627]Stings are done all the time here. Metro Vice has sent decoys into places like the Bellagio and busted guys for solicitation. Nice way to make sure even more people never come back to Vegas.[/QUOTE]I've heard of vice doing them outside the casinos and I've occasionally heard of them doing them in the casinos but the targets were the ladies not the johns.
Again, the casinos don't want to lose customers or get a reputation as being a place to get arrested. If they want the CG's out they escort them out or (only seen this at a few spots) they stop them at the door. The obvious ones are obvious and security, bartenders etc. Know the ones that aren't obvious.
I think the cops would have to lean on them pretty hard to let them set up on customers. In the case of Chris Hansen I suspect they felt it would be hard to turn down the Sheriff AND a major TV network (I can see the headlines if they did).
[QUOTE=FunTrust; 1778257]Since this is your first post, lets just say doubtful. For normal CG, the police don't do a sting unless the hotel would ask (which they won't) or they suspect something else like hard RX.
The worst thing is some guys props a girl who is not a CD but a guest, and usually the hotel will just say your very attractive, sorry, and may comp them dinner. That was the story some of the office girls told who were clubbing and someone may a pass and offered money.
The hotels are quite capable of figuring out who is a CG and getting rid of them. The last thing they want is for daddy to get busted while mom and the kids are at a show that customer is not coming back. And neither will the hundred guys he tells.[/QUOTE]This is my first post because its the first time that I felt I had something valuable to contribute. If you don't want to believe me, that's fine. But I can assure you I know what I'm talking about.
[QUOTE=WildDeuces;1777627]Stings are done all the time here. Metro Vice has sent decoys into places like the Bellagio and busted guys for solicitation. Nice way to make sure even more people never come back to Vegas.[/QUOTE]Total nonsense. They would never, ever do this.
[QUOTE=RoverT27; 1770049]Usually, CP has the best looking CGs of that group of 4 you mentioned. In six Vegas stays, including my last 3 months ago, I've been approached by two smoking hot blonde wcgs, both wanted $$$$$$$$. You get what you pay for.
Mirage is almost non-existant. Seen one ugly wcg there and I've stayed there the most of any strip hotel.
Aria is about the same. Not really known for that kind of scene. They're there, just far and few in between.
Flamingo is your best overall option. Even in times when there's a security crackdown going on at a particular property Flamingo is always consistent. I've seen 9s and seen 4s. Depends on the night. If anything, go there to see the go-go dancers. PH, too.[/QUOTE]You cannot generalize like this. Last time I was in Vegas, the Mirage was packed with hot CG's, because there was some kind of auto conference there. The CG's know when the conferences that are mostly guys are and in which hotel, so that is a more reliable indicator of where you will find them.
[QUOTE=Buster Hymen;1778418]Total nonsense. They would never, ever do this.[/QUOTE]I agree. You're asking for trouble to solicit out on the strip. LEO could be standing and listening 5 feet away from you and you wouldn't know it from the crowds that gather at night. But inside the casinos their security has initial control and they're much more interested in stopping the CGs from entering than keeping you from talking to them. It's not good for business. They only call LEO in when someone is being unruly or has done something stupid to warrant the police to be called (I. E. Cheating or are drunk as hell).
Don't solicit on the street.
In the rare instance you are stopped by LEO inside a casino, keep your mouth shut.
Be safe.
[QUOTE=RoverT27; 1778424.
Don't solicit on the street.
In the rare instance you are stopped by LEO inside a casino, keep your mouth shut.
Be safe.[/QUOTE]Do what I do, ask for their number and just say you'll give them a call after you at least had a chance to do a little research on them.
No harm in that!
[QUOTE=GentleJester; 1778291]I've heard of vice doing them outside the casinos and I've occasionally heard of them doing them in the casinos but the targets were the ladies not the johns.
Again, the casinos don't want to lose customers or get a reputation as being a place to get arrested. If they want the CG's out they escort them out or (only seen this at a few spots) they stop them at the door. The obvious ones are obvious and security, bartenders etc. Know the ones that aren't obvious.
I think the cops would have to lean on them pretty hard to let them set up on customers. In the case of Chris Hansen I suspect they felt it would be hard to turn down the Sheriff AND a major TV network (I can see the headlines if they did).[/QUOTE]There were some Chris Hansen episodes a few years ago where Metro did use some of the casino rooms to lure johns in with the decoy CG. There also were some other reality shows like Cops several years ago that show the vice squad using that same tactic from time to time. The moral to the story is if a CG says she has a room at the casino, that should raise some red flags.
[QUOTE=RoverT27; 1778424]I agree. You're asking for trouble to solicit out on the strip. LEO could be standing and listening 5 feet away from you and you wouldn't know it from the crowds that gather at night. But inside the casinos their security has initial control and they're much more interested in stopping the CGs from entering than keeping you from talking to them. It's not good for business. They only call LEO in when someone is being unruly or has done something stupid to warrant the police to be called (I. E. Cheating or are drunk as hell).
Don't solicit on the street.
In the rare instance you are stopped by LEO inside a casino, keep your mouth shut.
Be safe.[/QUOTE]You're right. Never solicit out in public. There's a reality show call "Vegas Strip" where one of the Metro cops always busts SW's, CG's, pimps and johns on the Strip. He's very famous on the show and on the Strip, he's black and has freckles, and his nickname is "Green Eyes," that's what every criminal who's been arrested by him calls him.
[QUOTE=Roxtar1011;1777408]I tend to stay in the Fremont Street Experience area. Never any CGs at my casino so I need to hunt at one of the neighboring casinos. One move that has worked for me if you're nervous about being busted walking down the street with a CG is to seal the deal at the bar, then tell them that you're at a nearby hotel and give them the room number. Tell them to leave the bar two or three minutes after you because you don't want the people you're in town with to see you walking with a girl like her. In my case, this excuse was true, but it also prevented LEOs (who probably don't care anyway) to see me walking down the street arm-in-arm with an obvious working girl.[/QUOTE]I picked a couple up last year from the Nugget and had a decent time, I did a report at the time back along. I was with a bunch of lads, so wasn't too worried about them knowing what I was up to.
Quite right though that the way you do things offers you the protection you need, and you're never going to get caught out by LEO only upsellers!
[QUOTE=Deeez;1778580]There were some Chris Hansen episodes a few years ago where Metro did use some of the casino rooms to lure johns in with the decoy CG. There also were some other reality shows like Cops several years ago that show the vice squad using that same tactic from time to time. The moral to the story is if a CG says she has a room at the casino, that should raise some red flags.[/QUOTE]I remembered hearing that Chris Hansen had been caught by a National Enquirer undercover camera about something, so I started researching him and ran across this funny gif. Matter of fact there's a whole website devoted to them. Hope you enjoy. Ps he was only caught cheating on his wife.
[url]http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/474921-chris-hansen[/url]
[url]http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/10638-chris-hansen[/url]#media-title
[QUOTE=Deeez;1778587]You're right. Never solicit out in public. There's a reality show call "Vegas Strip" where one of the Metro cops always busts SW's, CG's, pimps and johns on the Strip. He's very famous on the show and on the Strip, he's black and has freckles, and his nickname is "Green Eyes," that's what every criminal who's been arrested by him calls him.[/QUOTE]I see those guys from the TV show every time I visit these days. I even saw some dumb schmuck getting an autograph from one of them one night. The good thing about that show is they stick out like a sore thumb now. Easy to spot them.
Of course, anything can happen in Vegas, although I don't believe the donkey story.
To clarify, I think the idea of a Leo CG meeting you in the casino and going up to the room and then busting you, , or busting you in the casino would be almost non existent, as its creates to much drama.
Now, LEo going on BP, getting a room at a hotel / motel and busting guys is more plausible, but I would imagine not at the big strip hotels. No upside for them. At low end places and motels, all the time.
A long long long time ago with wife # 2 we were in Vegas, I was gambling and she was having the trots, so she kept going back to the room. After the third time, the security asked her if she was working; and she said no, just here for the weekend with hubby. She was asked for room key, she showed it and went up. When she told me, I had to explain what really had happened, they thought she was a hooker, and she wanted me to complain to the mgr of the hotel. I talked her out of it, but it was funny to me, but not her.
Hello Vegas.
Coming out to your SIN CITY this weekend!
Looking for a nice CG around the strip or possibly a good outcall since I will be on the strip CP, cosmo, Bellagio. Anywhere in cab distance.
Also looking for CG, SW, COF. Deep throat. PSE. Rough Bjs. Big fakes. 8-10s. Young fresh. Blondes, Latina, MILFs.
Please list some good spots for CG around strip CP, cosmo, Bellagio. Anywhere in cab distance.
PLease PM with reviews and #s or post THANK YOU!
Anytime you are in Chicago I can help!
[QUOTE=GreekTown; 1779905]Hello Vegas.
Coming out to your SIN CITY this weekend!
Looking for a nice CG around the strip or possibly a good outcall since I will be on the strip CP, cosmo, Bellagio. Anywhere in cab distance.
Also looking for CG, SW, COF. Deep throat. PSE. Rough Bjs. Big fakes. 8-10s. Young fresh. Blondes, Latina, MILFs.
Please list some good spots for CG around strip CP, cosmo, Bellagio. Anywhere in cab distance.
PLease PM with reviews and #s or post THANK YOU!
Anytime you are in Chicago I can help![/QUOTE]Tons of info in the forum. That said a CG "most likely" with do basic CBJ and cfs for anything else you should find a well reviewed girl
Seniors Please help.
If you could stay at one hotel this weekend and you were free from the ol ball and chain.
Which hotel would you recommend for escorts / CG?
Got a conventionatcesars but wanted to get the insiders option.
Been to Cosmo and mandalay and mandalay had CG Cosmo not so much
Any help is much apredicated I will buy drinks, ect. Or help you if you come to Chicago.
Looking for ROUGH BJ. CIF. CIM. Deep throat. PSE. 8-10s. Blonde barbies and huge fakes
[QUOTE=GreekTown; 1781769]Seniors Please help.
If you could stay at one hotel this weekend and you were free from the ol ball and chain.
Which hotel would you recommend for escorts / CG?
Got a conventionatcesars but wanted to get the insiders option.
Been to Cosmo and mandalay and mandalay had CG Cosmo not so much
Any help is much apredicated I will buy drinks, ect. Or help you if you come to Chicago.
Looking for ROUGH BJ. CIF. CIM. Deep throat. PSE. 8-10s. Blonde barbies and huge fakes[/QUOTE]I'll be nice and not tell you to RTFF.
Hotel doesn't matter for escorts, you meet them or they come to you wherever you stay.
It sounds like you want high end CG's. Expect to pay high end prices. Your best chance to find them is at the higher end places. Caesars is usually a good place to look, Bellagio has some nice ones, apparently Venetian and Palazzo bars are hopping. On weekends I've seen plenty at Cosmo. Real lookers at PH but I've never tried to pull them out of there.
I doubt you're going to get much of what you requested with a CG. Generally everything is with a cover on and deep throat is a total crap shoot, though you can certainly ask beforehand. For the rest you need to find an escort, and there are other threads for that.
Remember, CG's are a bit of dice roll you really can't expect to much which is why you shouldn't ever agree to their outrageous numbers.
If you have time, RTFF is actually the best thing to do. You cannot hurt yourself by doing your homework. Also, things can change in a matter of days if a property or properties decide to crack down on security and all the CGs disappear. Reading this thread gives you a good idea when to recognize when that happens (Everyone starts complaining about there being no CGs LOL).
In my 17 Vegas trips (No. 18 coming in 3 weeks) , the best places to consistently see CG that fit your description include these (prices increase by property)
Wynn (Walked by the entrance to La Reve and was approached and quoted $15 (as in 1500) for a leggy blonde who resembled Kate Upton (we're talking 9. 5 without breaking a sweat). Was waaaaaaaaaaaay out of my budget. That was the only time I've ever yelled out loud "Holy Shit" over a CG quote)
Ceasars (Labor Day weekend last year while walking out of the lobby was quoted $9 by 2 hot 40 why / o blondes (both were 8s) with bolt-ons. Passed.
Bellagio (During my Halloween trip in 2011 I had just walked out of dinner at Prime, turned a corner and nearly walked into a blonde 9 who quoted 1000. Talked her down to 500 and took her to my room over at the Cosmo. Best set of bolt ons I've ever seen and had a body that was simply ridiculous. I lost her number from then but when I go back I still look for her.
Golden Nugget. (don't laugh, every time I've been over there it seems all I see are blonde CGs with bolt ons. Saw several 7s and a few 8s. Highest quote was 400. Not too bad.
Now if you're wanting to go economical, you can never go wrong with Flamingo, PH, MGM or Ballys, especially Ballys. They have NO freaking security. Read their hotel reviews on yelp. People talk about getting approached by CGs outside their room on high floors in the middle of the afternoon.
Whatever you do, be safe.
[QUOTE=GreekTown; 1781769]Seniors Please help.
If you could stay at one hotel this weekend and you were free from the ol ball and chain.
Which hotel would you recommend for escorts / CG?
Got a conventionatcesars but wanted to get the insiders option.
Been to Cosmo and mandalay and mandalay had CG Cosmo not so much
Any help is much apredicated I will buy drinks, ect. Or help you if you come to Chicago.
Looking for ROUGH BJ. CIF. CIM. Deep throat. PSE. 8-10s. Blonde barbies and huge fakes[/QUOTE]
Anyone have information, on the CG's for Boulder Station? Usually I am on the strip but work put me out on Boulder. Thanks
I will be arriving Sunday night for a conference. 1st Time to LV and at this point I am unsure how to best proceed. I will be staying at Venetian Sun. Thurs. I have a fair amount of experience with incall girls back on East Coast. I have even visited a few AMPs along the way. I have to admit I am intrigued by the CG option. The appeal of the chase / hunt is really starting to win me over. Just not sure if it is worth the potential letdown. Any recommendations beyond everything I have read to date would be appreciated, but I doubt there will be anything new. I will certainly post a daily report while there and a final one when I get back home. All of the info provided via this forum has been great thus far!
[QUOTE=Wilgeo;1782308]Anyone have information, on the CG's for Boulder Station? Usually I am on the strip but work put me out on Boulder. Thanks[/QUOTE]I was there for the Kentucky Derby for three days. While playing the Video Poker machines just inside the front doors, I was approached three or four times by girls during the day. They just said something like, 'how's your luck" and slowly kept walking. They were all less than a five and not doable for me. At night I played the tables and saw nothing. I didn't check out the bars at all.
I did drive up and down Boulder and it was very active with several nice ones between Sam's Town and the Fremont St Experience.
I met a hot wife on vacation at the center bar at palazzo around7pm.
Short blood hair long legs dd tits slim around 43 huge wedding rings.
Spent two hour doing everything possible $300she swallows and luv cum on her tits ass and stomach.
She has a room husband be / f is working 2nd shift she's trying it earn back losses around $10k.
Says Thursday is last night wants to do doubles I'm game if your interested find her around 6 to 9
Goes by Gigi of I'm there don't mind me say hello to Gigi
Looks great deffinately an amateur.
Letdowns are part of the game unfortunately. There will be nights you won't see anyone or won't see anyone good looking LOL (I myself never go below a 7 for CGs). If you have experience you're already half prepared. Best advice I can give you is to be seen alone, wait until after midnight to start your hunting, stick to the bars and to make eye contact with any woman you find attractive. Always smile. Most times, they'll approach you. A majority of the time they'll approach you and you don't even see them walking toward you. Do not EVER talk particulars out on the street. Have fun and be safe.
[QUOTE=JackJLuvs69;1782465]I will be arriving Sunday night for a conference. 1st Time to LV and at this point I am unsure how to best proceed. I will be staying at Venetian Sun. Thurs. I have a fair amount of experience with incall girls back on East Coast. I have even visited a few AMPs along the way. I have to admit I am intrigued by the CG option. The appeal of the chase / hunt is really starting to win me over. Just not sure if it is worth the potential letdown. Any recommendations beyond everything I have read to date would be appreciated, but I doubt there will be anything new. I will certainly post a daily report while there and a final one when I get back home. All of the info provided via this forum has been great thus far![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=JackJLuvs69;1782465]I will be arriving Sunday night for a conference. 1st Time to LV and at this point I am unsure how to best proceed. I will be staying at Venetian Sun. Thurs. I have a fair amount of experience with incall girls back on East Coast. I have even visited a few AMPs along the way. I have to admit I am intrigued by the CG option. The appeal of the chase / hunt is really starting to win me over. Just not sure if it is worth the potential letdown. Any recommendations beyond everything I have read to date would be appreciated, but I doubt there will be anything new. I will certainly post a daily report while there and a final one when I get back home. All of the info provided via this forum has been great thus far![/QUOTE]If you've read the board, you'll will have read many tips on how to spot a CG (how they're dressed, eye contact, location, etc.). If you spot a possible CG but you still aren't quite sure if she's a CG or a tourist waiting for her boyfriend, here's a 99. 9% sure way of telling if she's a CG: Sit down at the bar one stool away from the potential CG. Meaning her, an empty stool, then you. Basically, sit close enough to talk, but not close enough to have a comfortable conversation. Offer to buy her a drink. If she is a CG, she WILL accept your drink, pick up her oversized purse, and move to the stool right next to you. If not, she's not a working girl. And if she's not a working girl, no damage done. Guys are always trying to buy drinks for girls.
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I have a question, I'm going to Vegas with my friends during July. We are all 22-23 years old and we aren't looking to pay for any sex but just for fun we'd like to mess around and have a Casino girl strip for us and maybe take some funny pics with us such as flashing and stuff like that. Would any of this be illegal in Hotels such as Cosmo or MGM? We are planning to stay at MGM for 4 days and 2 extra days at the Cosmo! Thanks for any response.
[QUOTE=Chillin1990;1784533]I have a question, I'm going to Vegas with my friends during July. We are all 22-23 years old and we aren't looking to pay for any sex but just for fun we'd like to mess around and have a Casino girl strip for us and maybe take some funny pics with us such as flashing and stuff like that. Would any of this be illegal in Hotels such as Cosmo or MGM? We are planning to stay at MGM for 4 days and 2 extra days at the Cosmo! Thanks for any response.[/QUOTE]As long as you're not exchanging money for any type of sex then it's 100 percent legal. But the minute you touch her in any sexual way then that's when it becomes Illegal.
[QUOTE=Chillin1990;1784533]I have a question, I'm going to Vegas with my friends during July. We are all 22-23 years old and we aren't looking to pay for any sex but just for fun we'd like to mess around and have a Casino girl strip for us and maybe take some funny pics with us such as flashing and stuff like that. Would any of this be illegal in Hotels such as Cosmo or MGM? We are planning to stay at MGM for 4 days and 2 extra days at the Cosmo! Thanks for any response.[/QUOTE]You can do anything as long as you don't get caught.
She's a gorgeous hot treat, I've literally dated tons of girls and she takes the cake hot body nice bubble booty she's the total package, her headline says it all.
[url]http://posting.lasvegas.backpage.com/online/classifieds/ViewAd?oid=9916949&uid=409058ecde239474d5b641b5d8ba00a0[/url]
[QUOTE=Chillin1990;1784533]I have a question, I'm going to Vegas with my friends during July. We are all 22-23 years old and we aren't looking to pay for any sex but just for fun we'd like to mess around and have a Casino girl strip for us and maybe take some funny pics with us such as flashing and stuff like that. Would any of this be illegal in Hotels such as Cosmo or MGM? We are planning to stay at MGM for 4 days and 2 extra days at the Cosmo! Thanks for any response.[/QUOTE]Most CGs are all business. They get in, do the deed, and get back to the bar to make more money. They're not into hanging out, which really what you're wanting one to do. You might be able to pull this off but be prepared to pay a lot.
Lots of action at Ballys behind the indigo bar area.
Cool price of $.5 is what I found this weekend.
[QUOTE=MasterJedi; 1785349]Lots of action at Ballys behind the indigo bar area.
Cool price of $.5 is what I found this weekend.[/QUOTE]Why no review dude where the hell you been? Ohh I know you're on the set of episode 7.
[QUOTE=Chillin1990;1784533]I have a question, I'm going to Vegas with my friends during July. We are all 22-23 years old and we aren't looking to pay for any sex but just for fun we'd like to mess around and have a Casino girl strip for us and maybe take some funny pics with us such as flashing and stuff like that. Would any of this be illegal in Hotels such as Cosmo or MGM? We are planning to stay at MGM for 4 days and 2 extra days at the Cosmo! Thanks for any response.[/QUOTE]This is a bad scene waiting to happen.
[QUOTE=Joesun1;1785617]Why no review dude where the hell you been? Ohh I know you're on the set of episode 7.[/QUOTE]Is that a 'welcome back' or WFT 'why are you back? LOL.
I've been busy, traveling and fucking LOTS of pussies. Believe it or not I found many HOTTIES in Bakersfield of all towns. They are bargain at. 6 &.8.
I went crazy like a little kid in a toy store.
I just spent 5 days mid strip, stayed at the shit house Quad, formerly known as the shit house Imperial palace. I saw about 100 working girls every night in that area, every single one was a bcg. Is this the new normal? A few years back I could always meet a good looking wcg in this area. I'll be returning in Aug. Any suggestions? Don't get me wrong I luv my black sisters, just not in the sack.
Why no reviews? I don't necessarily post reviews for every pussy that I fuck and I don't feel obligated. But since you asked, here's one just for you JS.
It's was on a weekend few weeks back at the Ballys, I was checking out the table games testing my luck and all the noise from the Indigo bar in the back drew me to look around. As usually the place was packed with people with Live band and even some people outside watching. I noticed a LCG about 5'-6" in black dress staring at me. Went by to check her out, but music was so loud that I didn't wanted to yell out 'how much? ' in front of hundreds of people. LOL, so I told her to lets go behind the ally way so we can talk. Not much of haggling to settle at $.5 and good thing was she had a room just a block away. We walked to her motel and it was clean and neat like she just got the room, found out later that she flew in that day to stay over for the weekend.
She was young, clean, giggly, and at least a 7 on the looks. She stripped to bra and thong and straddled me for 10 minute massage rubbing her pussy on my back. It was unrushed GFE hour with BBBJ with multiple positions. FIV while lollipop session to get her super wet, she had a soft natural C, med long black hair. I asked her if she would allow CIM, but she refused and let me give her a facial instead. I felt generous because of my earlier casino donations, so damage was $$ with tip. L / A/S = 7/8/7
[QUOTE=MasterJedi;1786945]She was young, clean, giggly, and at least a 7 on the looks. She stripped to bra and thong and straddled me for 10 minute massage rubbing her pussy on my back. It was unrushed GFE hour with BBBJ with multiple positions. FIV while lollipop session to get her super wet, she had a soft natural C, med long black hair. I asked her if she would allow CIM, but she refused and let me give her a facial instead. I felt generous because of my earlier casino donations, so damage was $$ with tip. L / A/S = 7/8/7[/QUOTE]I call bullshit.
[QUOTE=Lolligagger;1786557]I just spent 5 days mid strip, stayed at the shit house Quad, formerly known as the shit house Imperial palace. I saw about 100 working girls every night in that area, every single one was a bcg. Is this the new normal? A few years back I could always meet a good looking wcg in this area. I'll be returning in Aug. Any suggestions? Don't get me wrong I luv my black sisters, just not in the sack.[/QUOTE]Please not the Quad I had a bad experience there this bohemoth BCG wouldn't leave me alone I had to duck into the Bathroom to get away never again will I go there! Try like others have said Venetian, Bellagio, MGM and Cesars should be all you need.