"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=Literal2;1200912]I agree the younger ones are flakier, but I've found the older ones ask more questions. Not sure if thats a trend or not.[/QUOTE]My experience, with the stripper type SB, has been that the retired, or soon to retire. 30 something girls tend to be the best. Old enough to not have unrealistic expectations on the value of their kitty, but young enough to still be hot and fun. I have 4 long term dancer / SB's that I have been with for over a year that range from 30 to early 40's.

I still enjoy chasing the hot 20 somethings, but they are flaky, full of drama, and lack skills in the bedroom. I guess I'm still chasing holy grail of SB's: " A hot 20 something body, with the sex drive of a 30 year old, the skills of a 40 year old and the grattitude of a 50 year old."

[QUOTE=Mrlefty; 1201603]Question. Do you guys do a phone verify before you meet?

If so, what do you talk about? [/QUOTE]I always have at least one phone call."Just calling to get acquainted."

[QUOTE=Mrlefty; 1200613]Not much to tell.

Simple ad. Daddy looking for sugar (Baby). You need to enjoy life. Find someone that can invest in you. Blah blah blah.

2 ads over a couple of days. Got phone number verified by CL after that. So, I will either do the next from the coffee shop or hurry up and get the debit card.

Early 20s to early 30s. All looking for a little extra. One keeps sending me pictures of her naked, supposedly masterbating thinking about me.

We'll see. Today's the day.

By the way, no pics supplied to any. No phone numbers either. Just their fantasy. I tell them I am fat an ugly. . [/QUOTE]So how did it go?

[QUOTE=Literal2;1202814]So how did it go?[/QUOTE]Delayed (my side, work). Should happen soon.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax; 1202792]My experience, with the stripper type SB, has been that the retired, or soon to retire. 30 something girls tend to be the best. Old enough to not have unrealistic expectations on the value of their kitty, but young enough to still be hot and fun. I have 4 long term dancer / SB's that I have been with for over a year that range from 30 to early 40's.

I still enjoy chasing the hot 20 somethings, but they are flaky, full of drama, and lack skills in the bedroom. I guess I'm still chasing holy grail of SB's: " A hot 20 something body, with the sex drive of a 30 year old, the skills of a 40 year old and the grattitude of a 50 year old."[/QUOTE]I found it took a long time and much moola spent in the VIP to develop relationships with strippers. As I posted earlier, I've had a total of four of these over the years. One was 22 with two kids and was looking for a nest but gave me the best BJ of my life. One was 19 and beautiful but wild beyond belief in her personal behavior and was self destructive. Both of these were short term affairs. Two older strippers, early thirties, lasted longer. One was engaged but after warning me not to get involved proceeded to get involved and cling. The other would not let me penetrate her with a condom on so there was a lot of HJ action. I will not bareback with any of these girls. One day she told me she could give me a child. I said no thanks. I saw her again a year later and she had her child, by another sc patron. Whew.

Earlier discussion on here about strippers concerned how hard is to fuck them. Some had my experience which was it takes a lot of warm up. Others seemed to be able to accelerate the process even avoiding buying any dances.

One great thing about dancers is you can check them out pretty thoroughly before you meet them alone and many have great bodies.

In recent years when I go to an sc, which isn't that often anymore, I try to spot the girls who will release you inside the club. This is less complicated for me, anyway. Others may have different experiences.

My experience w / strippers is similar to Literal's, with the added caveat that they are usually more trouble than they're worth once you "catch" them. They are in that limbo between amateur and pro, with all the faults and few of the advantages of either one. Many of these girls have a deep-seated hatred of men, and that comes out in their dealings with us -- very mercenary, distrustful and lots of drama. I have a friend who spent much of her 20's as a dancer, and she admits that it took her well into her 40's to learn to ever trust a man or have a real relationship with one.

I make it a standing rule to not involve myself with dancers. There's too many other amateurs out there that don't come with all the baggage.

[QUOTE=fscott; 1200353]Now, to you, Literal. In my experience, every chat room, forum or other internet-based discussion group a "barn boss" emerges. My excuses to the rest of you earnest sd's, but that clearly is you. I am sorry to have intruded on you turf. I enjoy reading of your exploits, and will continue to do so, but will henceforth refrain from stealing focus. (edit delete)[/QUOTE]Fscott doesn't seem to like the exchange in this thread. While Lit2 may have been suspect of ole fscott and his motives here, accurate or not, what fscott doesn't realize is Lit2 IS the Barn Boss here. He is the Barn Boss here because he started the thread on 12/26/10; it is HIS thread. The reason he started the thread is because the discourse of sb / sd didn't fit into the typical categories and others said, Go start your own thread. And he did. Kind of like coming into someone's house and telling them you don't like how they have the furniture arranged really. Not good form, as they say.

Seems as though fscott may be gone anyway, just dropped by and told Lit2 he doesn't like how he has his furniture arranged, and got up and left. Alrighty then. For the rest of us who have been around for any length of time, it seems that we like how you keep your furniture Lit2.

[QUOTE=Literal2; 1200571]If so, I apologize.

Didn't mean / don't want to be barn boss. [/QUOTE]No apology needed Lit2. It seems as though this little tif placed a bit of a damper on the info Lit2 was willing to share over the past week or so, almost in a concious effort to back off and not be the Barn Boss. But I think that most will agree with me, we appreciate and enjoy the way Lit2 has moderated, instructed, reported on your thrists, and overall conducted matters here in this thread. I for one feel that we are missing out on some reporting by Lit2 on his recent events with SB18. Oh and SB 11, or SB 4, etc, etc. In the words of Sgt Joe Friday (slightly altered);"Lets have the facts Lit2, just the facts." (and feel free to embellish the hell out of them for our reading pleasure). I for one appreciate Lit2 experience and efforts, both with the ladies and his willingness to share those experiences with the rest of us.

How do the rest of the contributors of this thread feel about this?

One of the best pieces I ever had was handed to me by a stripper. Kept every promise she made. I did, too. That was years and years ago. I wish I could find her.

With that said I have learned to avoid strippers. They live and die by the up-sell. That doesn't lend itself to the escort, amateur or SD / SB situation.

[QUOTE=Cantwinlosin;1203472]I make it a standing rule to not involve myself with dancers. There's too many other amateurs out there that don't come with all the baggage.[/QUOTE]Maybe this is why I am so interested in this thread. The idea of finding an amateur as good looking as a stripper, but without all of the drama is intriguing. So how would you guys rate the looks of some of your "amateur" SB's on the stripper scale?

Vroom: thanks, it's ok. In some weird way I feel protective towards the women I exploit, but enough said.

Golf: your stripper was 1 in a 100 I think. She's probably married with kids and normal life by now.

Mad: well, strippers do tend to be fit, at least the good ones do. Management weeds out the ugly ones. There are exceptions, of course. The sbs I've been seeing have all shown me photos before I meet them but several times the photos are a few years old and the girl is older or heavier. I have walked away from a couple of sbs. On average I think my sbs are at least as attractive as strippers though because they don't have the hardness a girl gets from taking off her clothes for strange men dozens of times every day. They don't make themselves up slutty either. In my experience, you always get a shock when you see a stripper outside in daylight.

[QUOTE=Varoom; 1203597]No apology needed Lit2. It seems as though this little tif placed a bit of a damper on the info Lit2 was willing to share over the past week or so, almost in a concious effort to back off and not be the Barn Boss. But I think that most will agree with me, we appreciate and enjoy the way Lit2 has moderated, instructed, reported on your thrists, and overall conducted matters here in this thread. I for one feel that we are missing out on some reporting by Lit2 on his recent events with SB18. Oh and SB 11, or SB 4, etc, etc. In the words of Sgt Joe Friday (slightly altered);"Lets have the facts Lit2, just the facts." (and feel free to embellish the hell out of them for our reading pleasure). I for one appreciate Lit2 experience and efforts, both with the ladies and his willingness to share those experiences with the rest of us.

How do the rest of the contributors of this thread feel about this? [/QUOTE]I for one started pursuing SB solely based on this thread that Lit2 started. Even though I have not had the success that he has had, I am appreciative of the advice, insight, and the inspiration that he has provided. As I've said before, he is the Gold Standard when it comes to SB's. I want him to keep the info coming. I always look forward to it. He has earned the right to be Barn Boss

I've had a couple regular stripper friends and the relationships were very similiar to the ones I've had with sugarbabies. As someone else said, it did take a lot of itc meeting, talking, dancing until they were comfortable with meeting outside. Plus both dancers were older than your typical stripper, one early 30's the other mid 30's. Both have their head on straight and are a lot of fun. Interesting thing though, IME the sex with the strippers has been a little more plain vanilla than with the sugarbabies, but that could be because my regular sugarbaby gigs have been with women in their early to mid 40's. I've had the wildest sex of my life with these type sugarbabies. Seems as if their sex drive is off the charts, plus they seem to get a lot nasier in their sexual preferences than the strippers I've known. Best of both worlds maybe? No complaints here for sure.

And BTW, I'll echo what others have said regarding Literal. I appreciate his posts and contributions. Never considered him a barn boss or whatever. It's just entertainment folks!

Two of the strippers who finally agreed to come to my fucking chamber were so worked up before they got there that they were very good fucks indeed. The 22 year old mom squirted all over me cowgirl and finished, as I said, with the worlds best bbbjtcws. The early 30's fiance-stripper was so anxious and hot after I didn't visit her club for a few weeks after she turned me down that she pulled my waistband out and stuck her face and tongue into my pants in the VIP."Are you going to take your panties off for me, Jennifer?" I asked."YES!" she said. Then we met at a hotel about six times. This was not in Virginia. I never had any success at a sc in Virginia.

I'm trying to keep things alive with all the best sbs I've had over the past few months. I've put atf SB4 on the shelf but stay in touch with her and will go back to fuck her when I can but I really like her and worry about getting tangled up financially and otherwise. By the way, I posted a photo of her perfect ass a while ago and I look at it to remind me of her. Do any of you guys have acess to a more perfect ass than SB4? If so, show and tell, let's see what it looks like.

SB16 last week was an ok second fuck. She's 27 and flat but tight. She showed up wearing some kind of rubberized little black dress wrapped tight around her body and barely concealing her crotch. Very nice but she doesn't like foreplay, oral, titty play or anal. It's wham bam as I said and it's not enough for me.

SB11 was a good second fuck. When I asked if she liked doggie, she said,"I'll do it if you want." When asked if she liked cg, she said the same thing. She said,"What I really like is you on top of me." Well, it turns out she also loves getting her clit brushed rapidly by hand and deep fingering, but when I finally penetrated her she just locked her legs around my back, arched her neck and moaned like she was dying. Very satisfactory experience. She said she just wanted one sugardaddy and I was it. I told her I was the wrong guy for her.

SB18 is apparently coming back to the fucking chamber tomorrow. She makes me realize how a smart, sexy 22 year old girl can make a fool out of a senior citizen. I have to watch myself around her. She's the only real rival to SB4 for my affections. She is fair while sb4 is dark haired. SB4 has big boobs, sb18's are small and pretty. SB18's skin is tight all over and she does everything I ask with enthusiasm. Unbelievable.

SB3 is being a pest, emailing me all the time about getting together again. She made me wait for months. Now I'll make her wait for months, assuming I ever go back to her, which I may not.

It was a dream. 22 years old, blond, cute, perfectly proportioned slim, not skinny body, her tits and ass small, firm and curvy. One small tatoo. She greets me at the door with dfk, pushes me back to the bed, hikes her skirt up, straddles my lap like a dancer. She presses against me with her crotch. She gives a big smile when I feel under her panties how warm and slippery she is. Three minutes in the room, how could she be so wet? She pulls her dress off over her head, and unbuttons my shirt. She kisses and licks my chest and belly as she slips to her knees between my legs. She unzips my jeans. She sucks on Mr Johnson for several minutes. She's sighing, I'm gasping. It just gets better from there.

She's a senior in college, she says, and plans to get her MBA. Smart as hell. Why would this highly desirable female choose to let an old man fuck her and how could she possibly enjoy it so much? I'm not sure. Yes, I make nice gifts to her, but is that what gets pussy juice flowing? I think the answer has something to do with the safety of a sb / sd relationship from the point of view of the girl. She knows I'm never going to be part of her social group so she can just abandon herself to desire when she is with me. Maybe thats it, maybe its something else.

Some girls, like sb16, are very mechanical and businesslike. I think she enjoys me fucking her but she wants it over with fast. She sent me an email this morning,"When can you see me again?" When we are done she runs back to her age group. I'll put her off for a while.

SB18 lingers with me as long as I let her, not clinging, just being sexual.

I wonder if in 2011 Sex Prison it would be possible for an old stallion to keep a herd of young fillies around indefinitely as an alternative to conventional life. Billionaires do it of course, but what about the rest of us? Doing the math, it would certainly be cheaper than a marriage or worse, serial marriages.

The fillies would come and go and at some point you'd have to check into a nursing home I guess. But maybe not. I read on a Mexico blog a few years ago about some old dude who took his RV down to Baja and lived on the beaches. He woke up dead one morning in his beach chair with multiple stab wounds. Maybe he was servicing the local young women and the young men decided they'd had enough. Not such a bad way to go, really.

I see Literal2 is at it again.

[QUOTE=Literal2;1205934](edit delete) She's a senior in college, she says, and plans to get her MBA. Smart as hell. Why would this highly desirable female choose to let an old man fuck her and how could she possibly enjoy it so much? I'm not sure. Yes, I make nice gifts to her, but is that what gets pussy juice flowing? I think the answer has something to do with the safety of a sb / sd relationship from the point of view of the girl. She knows I'm never going to be part of her social group so she can just abandon herself to desire when she is with me. Maybe that's it, maybe its something else. (edit delete) [/QUOTE]I have this theory. Every woman will turn a trick under the right circumstances. She will do it for the excitement of being desired by a strange man willing to pay her. But she has a disconnect of not seeing herself as being paid. She'll see it as showing appreciation to a friend who helps her out. She may see it as 'found money' there for the taking he would be giving someone anyway. Either way she is not in there being paid. This is not what is happening.

The guy's treatment of her and how the money is handled must conform to her sense of reality, not his, or he'll blow what he found. Few girls ever take the next step. It is a big one to a woman and few ever get over it. She'll be gone once she senses he has a different sense of reality, the instant he treats the money as payment which usually happens when he attempts to control her (or say the wrong thing). No joking. Seriously, no joking around.

With a woman what we say will get us into more trouble than what we do. Do not say anything about the money. Do not give her the money first. Do not even hand her the money. Not that there aren't other ways, I put a rubber band around it and put it in her handbag while on the elevator leaving as the door is closing, a good distraction, without saying a word. I cup my hand so nothing is seen.

The guy must treat her normally, like a regular person, not like a date even, like we would treat a guy friend of ours, a guy in our foursome, not make a big deal over her, not make a big deal over it, certainly not expect it, and she must have the security of being able to withdraw at any point without any entanglements, without getting caught should she change her mind or should she go through with it. She must be secure she can walk away with no consequences, no fear of discovery. With that security she'll turn a trick. That he may be an old fart is inconsequential unless it makes him safer to her. All that matters is how she is treated, and money magically appears.

Literal2 made a comment earlier about a poster who enjoyed learning all her personal details, her real name, etc. The poster was invading her space and Literal2 took him to task. Good. She will see that as a threat to her free will to withdraw with no fear of entanglement. It will kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

CSB6. Saw CSB6 last Thursday. Certifiably a World Class Fuck. This time was just as good as the first. Sadly it may be my last. She said she was happy with the sugar but since our visits are spaced out so far she needs some sugar in between. This is not happening so I may have seen the last of CSB6.

CSB3. The 21yr old who broke off our contact for another guy contacted me again last week. She said the guy was tight with the sugar and made her ask for it. She said this made her feel bad. So after some back and forth (in which she said she needed rent money) we were supposed to meet. Turns out she wanted to go on several dates before giving up the pussy so she wouldn't feel like a s___. Actually her exact words were a "s___ slave." WTF! I'm over 60. What would I look like dating a 21 yr old? I want to fuck them, not date them. After a few more back and forth's I determined this was definitely more trouble then she was worth; wished her a nice life and moved on.

CSB7. She deserves a seperate post. See above.

In the mix. I have a 41 yr old. 5'6 massage therapist; a 38 yr old 5'4 nurse and a 28 year old. 5'2 women in the Navy. The 41 yr old says she was in a 12 year SD / SB relationship with a married man who moved to Florida It has not come up but I'm concerned that my sugar amount may not be enough. Neither have pictures on the sight but the 38 yr old sent me pics by private email. No nudes but the pictures show a nice looking, short haired brunette with very nice breasts. I spoken to the 38 yr old and plan on calling the 41 yr old today. I'm trying to set up a meeting with the Navy girl tomorrow. Her pics on the sight are nice and I have spoken to her on the phone. I'm planning on moving slow because a scheduling issue caused me to lose two others I was working on. I think that's it. Pussy is wonderful.

CSB7 (New) - 23years old; 5'6. We had the usual back and forth emails on the SD site then switched to private email where the messages got more and more erotic. Then she started sending me several nude pictures of herself which really got my interest. Really tight body with enough curves so you had a cushion. Not curvaceous like CSB6 (who was like the women on Mad Men) but nice. Well I met her last night. I actually picked her up at her home. She lives with a girlfriend and the girlfriends mother. The 200 lb girlfriend comes out to tell me she'll be out in a minute. (I think that was to check me out.)

Out she comes wearing a neck to ankle one piece very tight dress that shows off her curves without going overboard. She is exactly like the pictures. After stopping to pick up some drinks, we proceed to the fucking chamber, where a good time was had by all. She was very sensual, wanted to please and was absolutely tireless. Oh to be 23 again. She had above average skills in all departments but I may be judging to harshly. The problem is she was following the two time super bowl quarterback (CSB6) and that is the hardest thing to do. She did a thing that had my balls and half my cock in her mouth which she teased with her tongue. That was unique. Afterward I took her home.

Now get this: it was a nice night and she invited me to sit with her on the swing on the porch. She even offered ice tea. I felt like I was 18 dropping my date off. I couldn't accept the offer because I was really pushing the time on my pass from the warden so I had to go. It made for a overall quite unique experience. Fucked like a minx (and a squirter) ; acted like a school girl. I will definitely see again.

I think Golf is assembling pieces of the puzzle as to how and why some of these girls let us do what we do. Very interesting. Lots of good ideas here, inmo.

It doesn't work the same way for every girl, but the skilled utr monger needs more than one technique if he is going to harvest as much amateur quality pussy as he can.

Cool, these are encouraging reports for all of us. Thanks for posting them. Rock on, brother.

[QUOTE=Golfcart; 1206106]I have this theory. Every woman will turn a trick under the right circumstances. She will do it for the excitement of being desired by a strange man willing to pay her. But she has a disconnect of not seeing herself as being paid. She'll see it as showing appreciation to a friend who helps her out. She may see it as 'found money' there for the taking he would be giving someone anyway. Either way she is not in there being paid. This is not what is happening.

The guy's treatment of her and how the money is handled must conform to her sense of reality, not his, or he'll blow what he found. Few girls ever take the next step. It is a big one to a woman and few ever get over it. She'll be gone once she senses he has a different sense of reality, the instant he treats the money as payment which usually happens when he attempts to control her (or say the wrong thing). No joking. Seriously, no joking around.

[/QUOTE]Golfcart's view of the situation is how Europeans view it. A friend is helping out and gratitude is shown. The problem with CSB3 was that she wanted a dating situation (with sugar provided on dates) where she eventually gives up the pussy. I just don't have the time to go there.

I just finished a long phone conversation with the 38 yr old nurse who seems to have the right view. She is prepared to go to the fucking chamber. The problem is going to be coordinating her work schedule with my availibility. May the Gods smile on me.

[QUOTE=Literal2; 1206284]I think Golf is assembling pieces of the puzzle as to how and why some of these girls let us do what we do. Very interesting. Lots of good ideas here, inmo.

It doesn't work the same way for every girl, but the skilled utr monger needs more than one technique if he is going to harvest as much amateur quality pussy as he can. [/QUOTE]There are girls who know they are doing it for the money. They may be trying to kid others, the guys included, but there's no kidding themselves. They have taken the step in their mind. They won't let it be thrown in their face, however.

That is a huge step. My post below relates to those who have not taken that step and are in denial. They may be very particular, but they are in denial what is going on.

Very interesting post Golf and I certainly agree with you. I tend to play every meeting by ear until the lady commits to her style or how she wants to approach it. I just had a conversation with a new potential sb who said she had a couple of bad experiences where basically the guys treated her upfront like a hooker, she was offended and they never got close to getting what they wanted.

Maybe us and everybody else thinks these girls are prostitutes, but the sbs certainly don't see themselves that way, so don't treat them as such. Personally, I always meet in a public place first and approach it as a get to know you meeting with no expectations, only with a better chance of getting laid at the end. I've had reactions from a nice handshake at the end to "you want to get a room?" Just treat them with respect until you get them in the fucking chamber and then fuck the shit out of them, then you've got a fuck buddy for awhile. Having them feel secure can not be overstated.

Generally I try to discreetly give them the sugar, but sometimes they either ask at the end or want to discuss it upfront. Again, there is no one right way to go about this as all women are different in how they look at this little activity we love so much.

I avoid discussing sugar in advance. My recent females have not asked about it. When the female enters a fucking chamber, she understands the male will mount her. I just invite them to the fucking chamber. Once they enter, they expose their vaginas. They expect me to mount them and give them some sugar.

Do you have to offer sugar in advance to fuck a sugarbabe? My experience is not usually.

Of the 12 sb's I've fucked from the website during the current program, here's how the data break down:

Sb1. Picked her up at her home the day after initial email, drove to fucking chamber, no discussion of sugar in advance.

Sb2. Met for coffee 3 days after initial email, gave her little sugar, fucked at her home a week later, no discussion of sugar in advance.

Sb3. Mailed her a little sugar, met her in public a month after initial email, she came to fucking chamber three months later after discussing sugar.

Sb4. Met for pre-fuck lunch a week after initial email, discussed sugar in advance, fucked at her home.

Sb5. She asked about sugar in initial email, gave her full sugar in advance at her home, she declined FS but offered BJ, I walked out, fucked her later for more sugar (worst deal yet).

Sb6. Met at fucking chamber two days after initial email, no advance discussion of sugar.

Sb9. Met momentarily at a bar six weeks after initial email, met at fucking chamber one week later, no advance discussion of sugar.

Sb11. Met at fucking chamber three months after initial email, no advance discussion of sugar.

Sb12. Heavy negotiations over sugar by multiple emails broken off by me, a month later met at fucking chamber.

Sb14. Met at fucking chamber two days after initial emai, no advance discussions of sugar.

Sb16. Met briefly at bar near fucking chamber before entering fucking chamber and fucking within a week of initial email, no advance discussion of sugar.

Sb18. Met at fucking chamber a few days after inital email, no advance discussion of sugar.

I declined to fuck two girls. SB8 met me at her home within a few days of inital email, I had her spread her pussy and took pix of it and gave her sugar anyway. SB17 insisted on meeting in public and when we did she agreed to come to the fucking chamber without discussion of sugar. I wasn't interested but gave her a little sugar anyway because she was broke.

On eight occasions of the 12 there was no discussion of sugar in advance. This doesn't mean the girls didn't expect sugar. It just means it wasn't necessary to talk about it specifically. When I give them sugar, like Golf, I sort of slip it to them without making a big deal of it. I think this supports the theory of Golf and Magic that the girls don't really acknowledge to themselves what they are doing. If I had been explicit about sugar in advance I think several of the girls would have declined.

Also note in five cases the first time I met the girl it was actually inside the fucking chamber itself. They are adults, they know what they are doing. When they walk in that room, they are prepared to open their pussies for somebody they have never seen before. The oldest of the 12 sbs said she was 39, most are between 25 and 30, the youngest are 22 and 23.

Of course they could always walk away if they wanted to. I would never try to force myself on a girl even after she has entered the fucking chamber. But they don't walk away. They have orgasms.

[QUOTE=Literal2;1208159]Sb3. Mailed her a little sugar, met her in public a month after initial email, she came to fucking chamber three months later after discussing sugar.[/QUOTE]Sugar in advance told Sb3 that Literal2 was not a tire kicker. Not coming to the chamber for three months after their public meeting told him she wasn't ready and needed time to take the step, but he didn't know that when they met in public. It was probably her first time. Literal2 was patient and letting her move to him was the key. He didn't push on a string. I'm betting she had many opportunities and chose him because he let her control what she chose and when she chose it. This is the only way that works.

But sugar in advance can backfire with a girl who has not yet faced the reality of what is going on. It is a visual reference at a time of internal conflict. She has to be the one to bring it home in her own time and in her own way. I think it is better to have no hobby talk at anytime under any circumstance, no preview of coming attractions. Talk about what we would talk about if we found ourselves sitting next to each other on an airline flight. Treat her like a guy.

I've had only one situation where a public meeting worked into the situation. It was reasonably early. I asked if she had breakfast. She didn't want anything but coffee. I ordered breakfast myself. She did the talking. I did the listening. About half way through she was eating off my plate. Leaving I said I needed to find a gas station. She said she did also. This was her area so I followed her. At the pump I entered my credit card for her and didn't say a word. I think not saying a word is important. That was the circumstance of sugar in advance and describes the type of safe way I have in mind.

[QUOTE=Literal2;1208159]Sb12. Heavy negotiations over sugar by multiple emails broken off by me, a month later met at fucking chamber.[/QUOTE]Sb12 clearly took the step from friends with benefits to fucking for money before Literal2 arrived on the scene. But she unfortunately appears to be afflicted with the golden pussy syndrome. Literal2 won the only way, by breaking things off to let her try her other prospects. There's no future with a girl so afflicted. The price of gold just keeps rising. Second, we never win when we win in negotiating with a woman. Both must be happy or nobody is happy. I bet he's not seeing her any more for this reason. Note: The syndrome doesn't mean her pussy really is better. It means she thinks it is. Note: I think I know her. Is she is a realtor. 35, beautiful and tight? Nice time. No future.

[QUOTE=Literal2;1208159]Of course they could always walk away if they wanted to. (edit delete) But they don't walk away. They have orgasms.[/QUOTE]They don't walk away when they are given the choice to stay, when they don't feel trapped. She had a good time because she felt safe with Literal2. She was on her own terms. She could have left without fear of exposure. If it were otherwise none of this would have happened.

This thread keeps getting better and better. It seems we have similiar experiences with the sb's and advance sugar discussions.

I've had longer term "relationships" with 2 sbs so far, not counting my couple of stripper / sbs. I'll steal Literal's idea of a list, although mine will be in order of favorites:

SB1-this wasn't her first rodeo. We chatted a lot on the computer before meeting and absolutely knew where the process was heading. She's the only sb I've met in the hotel room first. Our chat was one of those deals where who is going to make the first move and throw out a number. I relented but gave a range for a regular meet and a higher sugar amount for an overnighter. She told me her minimum was the overnight rate I quoted. That ended up one of several overnights with her resulting in her being my atf sb. Multiorgasmic, squirter, sex freak. Most meetings took place at her house so no hotel $. Too bad she found a regular guy and got married.

SB2-we met for lunch, drinks, get to know you time. She casually made mention of a Days Inn up the street, then turned the topic to sugar. Her sugar contribution ended up being my standard amount as it turns out, although she was only the second sb I had seen at the time. After one time at the hotel, all future meetings were at her place. I saw her off and on for about a year and a half until she moved 500 miles away.

SB3-and current favorite. We met for the get acquainted meeting, where she said she had never actually done the deed with a sd. No discussion at all of sugar and we end up in a hotel room. At the end she asked if I was going to give her anything. Of course I said and gave her my standard amount for a multipop, multi hour date. I guess it worked because she texted me a few days later asking when we could meet again. This one is still in process. Could be awesome, could be over after 2 trips to the F Chamber.

SB4-met for lunch, walked out to car and she asks how I thought it went. Next thing I know her big tits are crushed up against my chest and her tongue is down my throat. End up at nearby hotel, no advance discussion of sugar. All events were quicker than my favs above so she got less sugar. Ended up she wanted an ATM more than a fuck buddy so she was dropped rather quickly, although it wasn't that easy getting rid of her.

SB5-the youngest I've met so far. Mid 20s and very pretty. Met for lunch and drinks, no discussion of sugar. Met a couple weeks later in hotel and I gave her my quickie sugar rate in her jeans pocket. We met one more time and she was expecting way more sugar than I was willing to pay or she deserved based on her service level. GPS.

All the others-4 total. Met for lunch / drinks, proceeded to hotel for fairly uneventful time, gave them all my quickie rate and never saw or contacted them again. No advance sugar discussions and put the sugar in pants pocket or open purse at the end.

I guess the point is, there is no one way this Sugarbaby deal works. My favorite mentioned sugar upfront, most of them haven't. I've only had the one disappointed in the amount of sugar and I'm not a high roller by any means. I enjoy this way more than escorts as in general I find the sbs appreciate the $ and sex more, and some are actually much wilder than escorts. Plus once you've arrived at the proper amount of sugar, the monetary aspect is quite minor to the experience.

With all the reports coming out of the woodwork I'm surprised someone hasn't mentioned a SB hitting one of us up for a loan / advance / whatever as in, "Honey, I'm a little short this week."

[QUOTE=Golfcart;1209383]With all the reports coming out of the woodwork I'm surprised someone hasn't mentioned a SB hitting one of us up for a loan / advance / whatever as in, "Honey, I'm a little short this week."[/QUOTE]That is the biggest risk of a sb / sd entanglement that once they get some leverage, they decide to attempt to use that leverage wisely. I know some of you play several hours away from home, but lets face. That distance is a phone call away. Not far enough, in other words.

So no tales of whoa in that regard from the group, and I am surprised by this. Of course also pleased that no one has had to go there at the same time. This may speak well of how you gents play your hands with the sb's.

Harvesting sugarbaby pussy is like mongering, there is always a level of risk. All you can do is to reduce it as much as you can but unless you give up the pussy, some risk will always remain. How to reduce risk? Well, start by setting the girl's expectations correctly, always treat her right, and make it hard for her to find you when you don't want to be found.

I've had several girls ask for extra help. One just told me I wasn't giving her enough sugar and dumped me. It wasn't a problem, I had accessed her vagina from her clit to her cervix as much as I desired and was chasing other girls anyway. A second sb always had her hand out for more. I like her and went along for a while but then just said, sorry can't do it and reset to the original deal. It didn't affect my ability to release semen inside her pussy at all. Another is really broke and trying to keep up a suburban housewife lifestyle with big car and tvs etc. I haven't seen her for months but she still occasionally asks for money. I just say no, but try to be sympathetic. In any case I've tried to keep her from knowing enough about me to cause trouble.

You guys must have had similar experiences.

I've had exactly what you describe with one sb. The one I mentioned having some trouble getting rid of. The first 2-3 times were what we're looking for. Fun, good sex, no drama. This is also the only local sb I've seen. Then it started. Will you get me a pack of cigarettes and drop them by my house? I need to buy a book for school, I'm behind in my daycare payments but I promise I'll fuck you for free for 2 weeks all you want (which never happened of course). When I cut her off, she threatened me with blackmail basically. I took a deep breath and just told her we were done and she had to do whatever she had to do. Told her I wasn't responsible for her financial troubles and it had ceased to be fun for me. Fortunately I haven't heard from her in several months so I think I'm in the clear on that one.

It goes without saying gents, be careful out there. While some of us do have conversations with our sbs, don't give up too much information where they can find you. Use a throwaway cell phone, pay for meals in cash. More than once I've paid with a credit card and the "friendly" server when he brings the check has said "thank you and have a good day Mr. Rat". Bingo! Now they know you're name assuming you use your real first name. Probably better not to even do that. As our friend Literal said, there's always risk unless you want to give up the (strange) pussy, and I'm not ready for that as I'm currently working on harvesting 2 new sbs, and have another one I've seen a couple times that is so hot to trot it's ridiculous. The good part about that is I don't really give a shit if the other 2 work out or not as I have options. Kind of like going to a strip club for a drink and to look at naked women, knowing you're going to get some pussy in an hour or so from a sb / escort.

[QUOTE=Magic Rat; 1209755]I've had exactly what you describe with one sb. The one I mentioned having some trouble getting rid of. The first 2-3 times were what we're looking for. Fun, good sex, no drama. This is also the only local sb I've seen. Then it started. Will you get me a pack of cigarettes and drop them by my house? I need to buy a book for school, I'm behind in my daycare payments but I promise I'll fuck you for free for 2 weeks all you want (which never happened of course). When I cut her off, she threatened me with blackmail basically. I took a deep breath and just told her we were done and she had to do whatever she had to do. Told her I wasn't responsible for her financial troubles and it had ceased to be fun for me. Fortunately I haven't heard from her in several months so I think I'm in the clear on that one.

It goes without saying gents, be careful out there. While some of us do have conversations with our sbs, don't give up too much information where they can find you. Use a throwaway cell phone, pay for meals in cash. More than once I've paid with a credit card and the "friendly" server when he brings the check has said "thank you and have a good day Mr. Rat". Bingo! Now they know you're name assuming you use your real first name. Probably better not to even do that. As our friend Literal said, there's always risk unless you want to give up the (strange) pussy, and I'm not ready for that as I'm currently working on harvesting 2 new sbs, and have another one I've seen a couple times that is so hot to trot it's ridiculous. The good part about that is I don't really give a shit if the other 2 work out or not as I have options. Kind of like going to a strip club for a drink and to look at naked women, knowing you're going to get some pussy in an hour or so from a sb / escort. [/QUOTE]I learned from experience that you don't want to even start down the road of "extras." Keep it to a strict arrangment and don't slip no matter how tempted you get.

I got started because she seemed to legitimately need a few things. She was so sweet and precious that I thought,"what the hell?" Then, it became more-demanding. When I finally ended it she started with the threats. It got to a point where she saw my car parked at a store and put a note under my windshield wiper. If I had a girlfriend or wife that would have been horrific.

Luckily, she got bored or found a new fish. But for a few weeks I was pretty worried.

So, the advice is to just keep it on the surface! Stay away from getting to know these broads. They are out to get paid and you are out to get laid. When you take it deeper than that you get screwed, but not in the bed.

[QUOTE=Literal2; 1209712]Harvesting sugarbaby pussy is like mongering, there is always a level of risk. All you can do is to reduce it as much as you can but unless you give up the pussy, some risk will always remain. How to reduce risk? Well, start by setting the girl's expectations correctly, always treat her right, and make it hard for her to find you when you don't want to be found.

I've had several girls ask for extra help. One just told me I wasn't giving her enough sugar and dumped me. It wasn't a problem, I had accessed her vagina from her clit to her cervix as much as I desired and was chasing other girls anyway. A second sb always had her hand out for more. I like her and went along for a while but then just said, sorry can't do it and reset to the original deal. It didn't affect my ability to release semen inside her pussy at all. Another is really broke and trying to keep up a suburban housewife lifestyle with big car and tvs etc. I haven't seen her for months but she still occasionally asks for money. I just say no, but try to be sympathetic. In any case I've tried to keep her from knowing enough about me to cause trouble.

You guys must have had similar experiences. [/QUOTE]Of course. It comes with the territory. When you see a escort you're not expecting to hear from her again unless you call. No texts, no emails (unless to let you know she's back in town) and for sure no requests for more sugar; but she is not fresh. If she hasn't been around the block a few times she's at least firmly headed in that direction.

The SB on the other hand has the allure of freshness. The kind of girl we would go after if we were thirty years younger and had maintained our bodies. Regardless of their age we expect them not to be jaded. That when we look in their eyes, all the lights are still on. So we spend the time in the SB fields trying to harvest (love that term) the ones that catch our attention. The emails; the phone calls; the meet and great meeting; the false starts; the will-she-won't she. And that's before you've even got the pussy; which you may not get!

After you get the pussy comes the real risk that others have talked about. Those risks are real. My CSB2, after giving up the pussy, started texting me the next day for money to go shopping. This went on for about three days. Needless to say I dropped her immediately. (Tiger rule violation) CSB6, after being happy with the sugar, wanted interim payments and sent me several emails with her requests. It comes with the territory.

I wasn't quite sure what to expect when I started down the SB path but what I found is, when it works, I love the fresh!

I think the most important factor by far is setting expectations with the girl before the pussy is accessed. I make sure they know I'm not free and also that I won't take care of all their needs. Be explicit in a polite way. Offer directly or indirectly to back off, walk away and give up access to her pussy if she did not previously understand or cannot accept what you say. This makes it much easier later when she asks for more. Just say, sorry no. You have to do all this with a smile and with tenderness though, not as some hard ass. At least thats what I do. So far its worked ok.

[QUOTE=Miketastic69;1209761]So, the advice is to just keep it on the surface! Stay away from getting to know these broads. They are out to get paid and you are out to get laid. When you take it deeper than that you get screwed, but not in the bed.[/QUOTE]I know, man. I know! But when I get accustomed to penetrating a fine young female with smarts and a nice way about her, it's hard to let go. It's hard to stay objective.

She's handing that problem to him.

Both must be happy naturally. I don't think negotiating with a woman works. If one gives in for harmony resentment will creep in and everything goes south.

[QUOTE=Miketastic69;1209761]So, the advice is to just keep it on the surface! Stay away from getting to know these broads. They are out to get paid and you are out to get laid. When you take it deeper than that you get screwed, but not in the bed.[/QUOTE]I have to disagree somewhat. As I've posted previously, I'm looking for a long-term mistress type of arrangement. I'm not looking for a girlfriend or a wife, but it's still a deeper level of connection I'm seeking. It's not all about the sex for me, I enjoy the emotional and social aspects as well. Going to dinner, taking her shopping, etc. If I wanted just the sex, I wouldn't bother with all of this, I would just call a pro. That's not intended as an insult to anyone here, I understand the joy of finding someone fresh, just a realization that we're all looking for something unique. It's what makes it a fun world!

Now, I'm guessing my situation is different from most posting here. I'm not married and I have no family to worry about. I work from my home for a few long-distance clients, so I have few points of vulnerability. But, I am careful until I get to know someone before I give out a lot of info. I do give my real name and I have a google voice number that I give out (thanks for that tip fellow forum member. I forget who it was!). But until I'm really comfortable I don't bring anyone to my home. My first SB spoiled me as much, if not more, than I spoiled her. I'm looking for that again. Don't know if I'll find it. But I'm sure trying.

[QUOTE=Golfcart;1208331]Sugar in advance told Sb3 that Literal2 was not a tire kicker. Not coming to the chamber for three months after their public meeting told him she wasn't ready and needed time to take the step, but he didn't know that when they met in public. It was probably her first time. Literal2 was patient and letting her move to him was the key. He didn't push on a string. I'm betting she had many opportunities and chose him because he let her control what she chose and when she chose it. This is the only way that works.[/QUOTE]One of the first SB's I contacted when I went on the site seemed ready to go. There were lots of back and forth emails and I was ready for my first SB. There was no discussion of sugar at all. Finally when I tried to set the date she backed off. She said she wasn't ready for a relationship based purely on sex. (Is there any other?). She was 27 and I'm sure this was her first foray into this kind of setup. After four months, she contacted me yesterday and said she was more than ready; she was anxious to get started. I don't know what prompted this. Financial situation worsen; general horniness or what. My problem is with what I have already on my plate, I don't know when I can schedule her. The point is I left her alone and she came around in her own good time. Just don't know when I'm going to be able to take advantage of her new mindset.

[QUOTE=Literal2;1210029]I think the most important factor by far is setting expectations with the girl before the pussy is accessed. I make sure they know I'm not free and also that I won't take care of all their needs. Be explicit in a polite way. Offer directly or indirectly to back off, walk away and give up access to her pussy if she did not previously understand or cannot accept what you say. This makes it much easier later when she asks for more. Just say, sorry no. You have to do all this with a smile and with tenderness though, not as some hard ass. At least thats what I do. So far its worked ok.[/QUOTE]Today one of the girls asked me for extra money. I said no, but I don't like this and may have to eat my words.

[QUOTE=Spitfire; 1210260]I have to disagree somewhat. As I've posted previously, I'm looking for a long-term mistress type of arrangement. I'm not looking for a girlfriend or a wife, but it's still a deeper level of connection I'm seeking. It's not all about the sex for me, I enjoy the emotional and social aspects as well. Going to dinner, taking her shopping, etc. If I wanted just the sex, I wouldn't bother with all of this, I would just call a pro. That's not intended as an insult to anyone here, I understand the joy of finding someone fresh, just a realization that we're all looking for something unique. It's what makes it a fun world!

Now, I'm guessing my situation is different from most posting here. I'm not married and I have no family to worry about. I work from my home for a few long-distance clients, so I have few points of vulnerability. But, I am careful until I get to know someone before I give out a lot of info. I do give my real name and I have a google voice number that I give out (thanks for that tip fellow forum member. I forget who it was!). But until I'm really comfortable I don't bring anyone to my home. My first SB spoiled me as much, if not more, than I spoiled her. I'm looking for that again. Don't know if I'll find it. But I'm sure trying. [/QUOTE]Spit, I hope you find what you are looking for.

[QUOTE=Coolhand2;1210324]One of the first SB's I contacted when I went on the site seemed ready to go. There were lots of back and forth emails and I was ready for my first SB. There was no discussion of sugar at all. Finally when I tried to set the date she backed off. She said she wasn't ready for a relationship based purely on sex. (Is there any other?). She was 27 and I'm sure this was her first foray into this kind of setup. After four months, she contacted me yesterday and said she was more than ready; she was anxious to get started. I don't know what prompted this. Financial situation worsen; general horniness or what. My problem is with what I have already on my plate, I don't know when I can schedule her. The point is I left her alone and she came around in her own good time. Just don't know when I'm going to be able to take advantage of her new mindset.[/QUOTE]Damn, Cool. You are on a roll. Come on, you can take half an hour out of your schedule to fuck this little sugarbaby.