Prostitution and Law Enforcement

The real big question to pose here is how many of us might be incriminating ourselves by using this forum.

This is why about every post I mention that everything I post here is basically made up. And seriously it is!

It is only logical to conclude that LE could very easily obtain our IP address and either monitor us, investigate us, or better yet, detain you for questioning.

I'm all to aware of our first amendment rights, however, I'm all to aware of how LE can use any means necessary to gather evidence in a criminal probe!

That being said, think about this for a minute. We can agree that the discussion here on this forum, involves boasting and speaking openly about something that is illegal, right? Well, then ask yourself this; what if we were discussing on this forum how we might deal in drugs, or rob a bank, or how we got away with stealing our neighbors car, or whatever criminal activity we choose! Are you seriously going to tell me that you don't think LE would use anything and everything posted to this forum, to at the VERY least, investigate you? Come on!

They can and very well could be!

I am 100% serious when I state openly I was all too aware of this when joining and posting to this forum. This is why everything I have ever posted here is false and make believe!

Keep this in mind.........................."if LE wants to know who you are by what you have posted here, trust me, they already do!"

"if this thread were about talking opening and sharing info about higher crimes such as the ones listed above, you can count on LE paying you a visit, just because your crime here of choice is considered a lessor evil, does not make it not a crime and subject to LE's attention! "

Something for you all to think about....................

GETTINGTANG~!

GT, where do I start? You are rambling on like a [blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]. For a start, there is absolutely no way known that LE could be bothered to use member posts to prosecute people. There are just too many reasons for this. Here's a few:

1) They have more important things to do than spending heaps of time and resources on this goose chase.

2) They'll have a hell of a time proving their case.

3) Are you telling me that suddenly we're gonna have the homes of thousands of WSG members raided and their computers seized?

I have a LE background and in my experience the scenario you paint could only happen if "pigs fly".

Gosh, I really cannot believe the lunacy of your arguments. Are you sure [blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue].

And for you to post 100% made up reports, well, why don't you save all of us the trouble and [blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]! Stop wasting our time and wasting valuable space. [blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]This report was edited in accordance with the WSG Forum's [u]Zero Tolerance[/u] policy regarding reports containing any personal attacks or derogatory comments directed towards another Forum Member or the Forum Membership in general.[/blue][/size]

People all over this forum are beginning to see that GT is a "baiter" in that his posts appear to be for the sole purpose of either flaming LE or pissing someone off. Very little serious discussion eminates from his posts.

If anyone is approached by LE, their first impulse should be to at least be polite. Take it from there. As the saying goes, "if it starts bad it's gonna end bad."

Start on a positive note as best as the situation allows. If you're caught doing something illegal then there it is. You need to work with what you got. Sure, some cops don't show up for trial, but YOU DO don't you? Nothing like having a coffee by the pool knowing that some loud mouth prick showed up on his ticket!!

Be Safe and BE NICE
Country John

You might find it no hassle, GT, and may even enjoy the process of fighting city hall, given your apparently contentious nature, but I don't -- I've got better things to do with my time than try to beat the system. If I get a ticket I know I deserve I'm just going to pay it and move on. I don't necessarily disagree that you don't need to say anything -- if you're caught in flagrante delicto a denial's not going to get you anywhere, that's for sure, and it's likely to piss the cops off. Saying nothing is better than insulting their intelligence. But if it's possible to admit a small portion of guilt and not the whole thing (like, for example, admitting you were speeding but denying you were going 20+ over) then there's often a compromise or simple warning available. Saying nothing generally means you're getting cited for whatever made them come up to you.

As far as Pokey's attitude thing, during my time working I made a point (as did most others) of being very careful to take good notes in my log anytime I had an encounter with someone who gave me attitude or lip. This was for my own protection, as these were most likely the folks who were going to push things by complaining about mistreatment, being singled out, or who were going to fight things. The prosecutors basically always asked for information, and would tend to resist dropping things where someone gave grief. Unlike others, I showed up for people who gave me shit -- I had people throw things at me, and even two who drove off and tried to clip me with their cars in a very clear intentional way. (One of those guys fought his ticket -- you can be damn sure I showed up for that!) And all it [i]ever[/i] took was for me to say in court that I'd been cursed or disrespected for the judge to throw the book at the defendant. And this was mostly for parking or speeding tickets -- it gets even more to the point in other instances.

During my two years on the department, we had one cop killed, four others shot (two in a highly publicized cop vs. cop shootout) and scores more who were injured during confrontations while doing their jobs. It's a very rare thing for something like that to occur without warning -- usually it starts with attitude and escalates, so cops naturally get their radar up when someone starts giving lip, for their own protection. The absolute last thing I want, when I'm dealing with cops, is for adrenaline to be surging through them; I want things over with and I want to move on.

And GT, given that you feel we're all setting ourselves up for criminal conspiracy charges, can you cite any examples of where there's been prosecution for conspiracy to commit a misdemeanor (beyond cases where it's a knock-down from conspiracy to commit a felony)? I mean, I can theoretically get cited in Arkansas for mispronouncing the name of the state, or for defacing a milk carton in Massachusetts, but that hardly means it's going to happen or is something we need to waste time worrying about. Sainter's three points are dead-on, IMHO, and in addition to everything else a very valid question would be: who exactly do you envision leading such an investigation? The feds? Your local PD? It's gotta come from somewhere, and someone in San Diego making a good case against a punter from Sweden isn't exactly going to get them a gold star for good use of their time and local resources.

CJ,

I tend to agree with you more and more that GT is simply baiting, but in his post about saying nothing when caught red-handed, I tend to disagree with you that that would be a mistake. If I were in any situation facing charges of anything greater than an infraction, I would keep my mouth shut. It is my understanding that from the moment you are popped, especially if it seems clear-cut, the cops job is to collect evidence against you. They are not watching out for something you might say to change their mind. They are carefully storing everything you say just in case any of it can be used against you. What if they do catch you with your pecker in her mouth and you blurt out, "Sorry officer, I couldn't control myself and I picked up this hooker and paid her twenty bucks for a blow job. Please go easy on me." Then later, after you got a lawyer to analyze the case, it turns out the cop screwed up somewhere in the stop and you probably would have got off, had you had not opened your big yapper!

JMHO

I posted this on another forum but it should have gone here under P&LE.

In my fair city if the cops bust you, both you and the girl are arrested, taken into custody, booked and jailed. You're also hit with a fine approaching a thousand dollars for a first offense. So is the girl.

Matters proceed to get much worse for the guy. If your car was used in any way during the encounter, it's impounded and put up for auction by the police department. Yes, you lose your car. The name of the John is also published in the newspapers along with the specific offense in an attempt to embaress you. How's that for persecution??? Don't the legislators, cops and courts have anything better to do with their time??? Also, with this type of mentality prevailing the whole concept of "decriminilization" seems to be light years away.

I am coming to the conclusion that what people do on this particular thread is to only read a sentence or two of another's post and then respond to it as if they have read the entire thing.

If you wish to respond to my postings, please do, i openly accept the critics, yes even you CJ, but at least have the courtesy of responding to what I have actually wrote!

1. CJ, once again for the zillionth time, please show me where I'm advocating fighting cops and inflaming them?

2. Please tell me how exercising your right to keep quiet is somehow a major in your face offense.

3. People, including LE can assume all they want, we all judge others, its human nature, but again, please tell me how if a cop pulls up on you in the act of sex, they can charge you with something that will stick if you and the girl keep quiet???? EXPLAIN PLEASE?!? Sure they can fully assume they know what you were up to, but once again, assumptions are not evidence! Unless you or here admit she was paid, they have no choice to let you go! Now if she was in violation of being out, had a warrant, or was violating other terms from prior charges, then indeed she might get taken in.

4. My point with my last post should have been all too clear, I agree LE is not likely to come after anyone for posting to this forum, but you damn well better believe they COULD! As i said below, if we were openly boasting about dealing drugs, stealing cars, or other things against the law, do you not think they would use what your wrote as at least a point to open an investigation??? You cannot argue here that what we speak openly of, is not about breaking laws. I don't necessarily buy into the theory that just because it's not a major violation we get a free pass!

5. As we all know, all too well, LE and city council members have always used the excuse as to why prostitution is illegal is because, with it, comes far greater crimes! So you people are foolish if you believe you might not be being watched! Probably not, but hey stranger things have happened, right?

Think about this, what if in the area you post in or monger in, they have had a serial rapist, or gangster robbing the girls, or are looking for someone. You can bet they will check over this forum! It only makes sense!

Paddy:

I hear ya man, but clearly, some jurisdictions have stricter laws than others.

The answer to the question "Don't the legislators, cops and courts have anything better to do with their time??? " is YES. Problem is we're clogging up the system with frivality. The legislators, cops and courts are simply enforcing laws enacted by the people we elect (when we show up).

When we are smart enough to make the problem go away by being smart then there will be less need for enforcement and tough penalties. The pressure to "crack down" comes from the citizens and business owners. Cops would really rather be out there grabbing the "real" bad guys.

Johns & girls are so flagrant and bold and that becomes an easy target especially during an election year but keep in mind you wouldn't tolerate a SW scene on your street either (and rightfully so).

I had the question put to me many times "Don't you have anything better to do?" "Arn't there real criminals out there you could go after?" "Why are you chasing me when there are more serious crimes to handle?"

Well, if you were not out there being a "nice" bad guy breaking your own little laws, maybe I'd have a chance to go after the "real" bad guys.

I'd show on most of my tickets but I knew which ones I wouldn't go on. If it was a "serious" infraction I'd go but if some lame brain decided he was going to try to ruin my day, I'd make it worth my while and give him (or her) a day off work.

It's a common practice to write the first comments out of the violators mouth on the back of MY COPY of the cite. Especially if it was nasty. Since we were allowed to refer to our "notes" it was simple to make it stick and it also provided some very colorful moments in court. So if you are going to say ANYTHING, be nice.

I can't tell you how many people I let drive away from what I intended to be a ticket. IN most cases there was a short meaningful discussion, the person wasn't out to piss me off. They were ready to sign and I would let it slide because the warning and the stop did the job as far as I was concerned. Call it selective enforcement if you want to but there were many opportunities to correct mistakes without costing someone money or time. Foul mouth Adam Henrys were quite a different story. I loved 'em.

Traffic, however was never the main focus.

I guess in some jurisdictions the SW scene is a REAL big problem for the citizens and businesses. Laws will tend to be stricter I guess in these areas. I can certainly understand why.

Common sense common sense common sense guys. That's one thing you need to keep in mind. If you treated a service writer at a car dealership with the same disrespect, what do you suppose would happen to your repair bill? Cops are people too.

Be Safe and BE NICE
Country John

I don't as a matter of personal policy get confrontational with cops everytime they pull me over. If he ask me a stupid question, designed for me to hang myself and admit guilt, then yes I will have a smart ass remark. I do get out of some tickets 30% of the time. You can usually figure that out in the first 5 seconds talking to the cop, is this guy going to let me go.

But, I don't sit around kissing the cops ass, hoping he is going to let me go. There are certain situations where you are not going to get off, no matter how much ass-kissing you do. Driving 95mh, coming back at 3:00am from TJ on the 805. The HighwayPatrol, risks their life everytime they pull someone over on the freeway. You never get off, nor do the motocycle cops, where I live every let you off. ( last ticktet no seatbelt, I gave the cop shit, and fought it in court, I lost he showed up for a $30 ticket)

I also believe if you are caugh with a SW in your car having sex, the cop is not going to let you off, for being nice to them. You have nothing to gain from talking to them, but rather everthing to lose, depending on your job, and family situation.

I also consider being busted with a prostitute a serious personal thing, just as much as Kobe, in his current situation where he could do many years of jail time. There are a few Mongers on this board if your wife found out, what you were doing, would not take you back. I think we might have a few people in the ecucational field in this forum , that could lose their job, if you get busted for having sex with a SW.

I think the best thing to do if guily of a crime of pleasure is keep your mouth shut, who cares about hurting the cops feelings, when your life could be destoyed. Cops are so scared now, of getting complaints, because it can go against their records if true or not, that they are at times refusing to engage in their jobs.

CJ, you say you busted guys like me. Hey, Im a nice guy. I really have only one vice, and that's "SEX". The girls have at times offered me drugs, but Its not for me. I did smoke pot in High school and college. I have also drove drunk a few times, but really not anymore. I do tend to speed, but can you blame me, TJ is close to my job, but really a long way from my house.
So, the only place where you would find me doing anything illegal, was having sex in the car, which I really don't do anymore.( once or twice for the thrill)

Oh I forgot, I once engaged in a sexual practice against the law in Texas a fews years ago with a nice looking lady. CJ was that you in the window trying to look in?

GT, You asked how can the cops bust you for something if they pull up on you while you're having sex with a hooker as long as you remain quiet. Well for starters, how about for lewd conduct, public nudity, etc, etc? In fact these charges may be worse than a solicitation charge. Or is it okay to have sex in a car where you live? I know the average monger when asked whats going on isn't going to volunteer any extra information. "Oh and by the way officer she's not my girlfriend, she's a hooker who I picked up on 5th and Bell. I offered her fifty dollars to have sex with me". Come on now. You and the rest of us are much smarter than that.

I agree with Joe Zop. I'm going to try and talk my way out of it if I can. This is much better than taking time off work to fight it out in court, have your wife or employer find out, pay lawyers, lose your car, etc ad nauseum. If I get pulled over I will admit to speeding. Lying or remaining silent will guarantee you a ticket. I walk away from about 80% of my traffic stops and believe me I've been pulled over dozens of times. I am always respectful, polite, and don't pull any crap.

Now there are times to remain silent. You don't have to incriminate yourself, admit to breaking the law when all they have is their suspicions. Like if you get pulled over and they ask you what you're doing. "Cruising for prostitutes sir". Don't do their job for them. But for traffic violations and minor offenses where they have you nailed; again for clarification if the cop knocks on your window while your dick is in some chick's mouth; remaining silent or denying it won't get you too far. Saying something like "sorry officer, my girlfriend and I were coming home from a party and we just couldn't control ourselves" might get you some slack from an understanding officer. Of course this doesn't work if you're with a known prostitute. Every situation is different and you have to wing it a lot of the time. Also, if you are caught doing a serious crime or felony then of course shut up.

Civ2K

P. S.

CJ, What's with that newby bashing you already? Seven posts and three of them are flames. Someone should tell him to post some useful information before he goes attacking the senior members. Perhaps if we can get our hands on GT's elusive software we might find he's someone posting under multiple identities.

Civ2000:

I don't Know man. There's a lot of anger against LE and XLE. Just dummies don't know how to talk to people is all. Seems to be several NEGATIVE INFLUENCES on the board and that may have a bearing on it too. Hey newbes, don't flame Country John. He's a nice guy and only wants to help!

I've developed a tactic to deal with the "getting caught with your dick in her mouth" situation, you're closer than you think Civ. I'll PM it to by "buddies." It's pretty cool too. Doesn't make anyone look like a moron. Ran it by a few XLE buds already and they said it's solid, as long as they don't know the girl too well. Only thing is you got to have a brain so that automatically disqualifies a few people who's names I won't mention because everybody already knows who they are anyway so what's the point eh?.

Use to be that when you roll on your shift, even though you try to be ready for anything you are not out there to pick on the guy getting the BBBJTCIM in the back of his car. You have to intervene though if there is lewed conduct or nudity in a public place. So you're spot on about that Civ.

So keep the lewd conduct and nudity in as private a place as possible, away from the public parks, parking lots etc etc. It's usually when you're in public or actively soliciting in plain sight that'll get you nailed. Common sense stuff eh?

Oh yeah, don't throw the condoms in the parking lot. Business owners scream like hell about it (as they should) and not only that, you might choke an animal!

Now if we could just find out what that software package is, jeez, that would be cool but looks like GT isn't going to give it up. I'll stick with my James Bond Camera (which is pretty cool by the way) and my Green Hornet Decoder Ring. Far more reliable that GT's software!

I'm gonna get some pics in the Alley next time out and get them up on the TJ section so stay tuned!

There is a big difference between "giving up information," "Volunteering information," "telling the truth," "bullshitting the nice officer" and "outright bare faced lies." The LEO knows when he's being bullshitted, that's for sure unless you have a good tactic, it's going to be easier to the LEO to prove you wrong to make a charge stick because the easiest thing to use when trapping a purp is his own lies.

Be Safe and BE NICE
Country John

I think we should all just agree to disagree. GT, you can do whatever you want. Hey at the end of the day it's you who'll have to face the music. Anyway if I was a little too rough on you earlier, I apoligise. But please refrain from posting false reports as it jeopardises the integrity of this forum. Thanks.

Did you ALL failed reading comprehension?

Civ2000, If you had of actually read what you are responding too, you would clearly see, I mentioned you could be charged with indecent exposure! Yet you comment a reply to my post as if I never stated this.

I give up here, if we are going to have a rationale discussion regarding any topic, we need to at least be responding to what the other person wrote! Don't you think? You people are full of assumptions, you read one or two sentences of another guys posts and ramble on for paragraphs about nothing he wrote about! Or take things out of context.

I'm out, for now, until you all go back and locate your 6th grading reading teachers and learn how to comprehend what you are reading, or lack there of!

With all due respect, GT, lewd conduct is quite different from indecent exposure, as is, say, public fornication, something else with which you could be charged. You specifically asked us to "please tell me how if a cop pulls up on you in the act of sex, they can charge you with something that will stick if you and the girl keep quiet." Your response -- an ad hominem attack -- is a very nice way of avoiding the actual point that that's precisely what Civ2k's response did.

Your comments regarding people's reading comprehension are most [i]definitely[/i] a case of the pot calling the kettle black -- there's certainly been plenty of "taking things out of context" and rambling for several paragraphs from you. How about showing the same care you complain you're not getting? Not to mention that the clarity of your posts may well be evident to you, but they don't necessarily come through to the rest of the world that way.

For example, when you say the issue of incriminating ourselves on this forum is "the real big question to pose" you give it a very different urgency than simply mentioning it COULD happen -- you say, as well, that it's "only logical to conclude that LE could very easily obtain our IP address" (which I disagree with, as it glosses over an awful lot of issues such as jurisdiction.) There's more than simply the specific words you choose -- there's also the tone of your post to be considered, and the tone of that particular post with all its exclamation points can best be described as alarmed or alarmist as opposed to being theoretical musing.

I suggest while we're all out brushing up on our reading comprehension you spend some time brushing up on your compositional skills. Then we can all be one big happy.

Besides, why should we care to read your posts closely when, as you so often remind us, they're just made up bullshit?

GT, I'm sorry I didn't go back and read your last four posts to find that one sentence about indecent exposure. I was reading your last post where you said:

3. People, including LE can assume all they want, we all judge others, its human nature, but again, please tell me how if a cop pulls up on you in the act of sex, they can charge you with something that will stick if you and the girl keep quiet???? EXPLAIN PLEASE?!? Sure they can fully assume they know what you were up to, but once again, assumptions are not evidence! Unless you or here admit she was paid, they have no choice to let you go! Now if she was in violation of being out, had a warrant, or was violating other terms from prior charges, then indeed she might get taken in.

And I responded they can charge you with indecent exposure/lewd conduct. Obviously you forgot what you previously wrote also, hence question #3. You said EXPLAIN PLEASE how they can charge you with something that will stick if you don't say anything when they catch you in the act of sex. I say easily. Just not necessarily for solicitation. And no, they don't have to let you go.

I would like to add a disclaimer to what I said in a recent post about telling the officer the SW is your girlfriend. This can backfire easily. They separate the two of you and ask questions that a couple would know about each other, e. g. middle name, employer, address, where you met, what you did that night, etc. It doesn't take but a minute to figure out if you're lying or not. I have used this excuse before and it's worked but keep it simple. Tell them you just met her. My favorite is I met her yesterday at an AA meeting. That way you can't be expected to know too much about each other.

GT, If you can't give us the name of the software, can you at least tell us why not? You respond to everything else but you act like you never hear us when we ask you this question. This is a test to see if you are actually reading this post: Name That Software!!!

Civ2K