Strip Club Reports

[QUOTE=Pink Chaser]I totally disagree, if you are at a strip club and sitting at the stage you should be tipping. Its not like she is obligated to come talk with you just because you tipped her, she did her part by taking her clothes off and you did yours by giving her your dollars. If she was sitting with a custumer before hand it is understandable that she would go back to him after she got off stage and continue to hustle him for that dance (most girls have a system of sitting and talking with a man and pretending they give a shit about him before they ask for a dance) quit feeling sorry for yourself and see the business for what it is.[/QUOTE]
He wasn't feeling sorry for himself. All he mentioned was that the girls used to stop by for a quick "thank you" if you had tipped them during the dance. I haven't been to a club in a couple of years, so I didn't know that they don't do that anymore. But he's right, that is what most of the dancers would do. It also served as a way to ask you to buy a dance.

I have to agree with Longhairngotee and Loafer Boat. They get up and dance and take their clothes off whether you are sitting at the stage or back at a table. When you tip a dancer, whether you are sitting at the stage or have to go up there from your table, you are showing both appreciation for and interest in a dancer. Now if they have been sitting with someone and got interrupted because it was their turn to go up and dance, then I understand them returning to that person after they are finished dancing. But I also think it is appropriate for them to pass by and thank those customers who tipped them on their way back to the other customer, if they were with someone before they danced. First, this is courteous and shows appreciation for the tip, and second it sets the stage for possible future dances with the tippers after she is finished with the guy she was originally sitting with. It only takes a second to stop by each guy who tipped and say thank you and is good customer relations.

[QUOTE=John Kelly]I have to agree with Longhairngotee and Loafer Boat. They get up and dance and take their clothes off whether you are sitting at the stage or back at a table. When you tip a dancer, whether you are sitting at the stage or have to go up there from your table, you are showing both appreciation for and interest in a dancer. Now if they have been sitting with someone and got interrupted because it was their turn to go up and dance, then I understand them returning to that person after they are finished dancing. But I also think it is appropriate for them to pass by and thank those customers who tipped them on their way back to the other customer, if they were with someone before they danced. First, this is courteous and shows appreciation for the tip, and second it sets the stage for possible future dances with the tippers after she is finished with the guy she was originally sitting with. It only takes a second to stop by each guy who tipped and say thank you and is good customer relations.[/QUOTE]Thanks for this post, it's exactly what I was referring to.

Yeah, as others have said, strippers have forgotten how to thank those who tipped them on the stage. Or, rather, the idiots that now own and run the strip clubs have no idea how to manage the girls beyond saying, "Go to work."

They won't do it on their own. As Al Lucas, the owner of such legendary spots (on the Pinellas side) as Daddy-O's, Fountain Blue, Sugar Daddy's and (how many of you go back THIS far?) The Trap Lounge, used to say of strippers, "They are not smart."

So, knowing that strippers will not clue in to your interest on their own and that managers and owners are not smart enough to teach them this, here's Mr. Wazowski's simple advice on getting a stripper away from the guy she's wasting her time with.

After she ignores your stage tip - and, really, even a shitty stripper makes more in a day than the average working man. So, really, if you tipped her a buck, even five dollars, that is not enough money to make her believe you're going to make her night.

But I digress... So, don't let her lack of business sense keep you from getting that ass if you do, in fact, wish to sample that fine young thing's ass in the VIP, Champagne or whatever they call the back room at that club. After she ignores your stage tip and goes to sit with the guy who wasn't taking her in back before she got on stage, walk right over to where she's wasting her time.

Right in front of the dude, drop a twenty into her hand, bra or whatever is convenient. Don't whisper, say it so it can be heard... "If you are interested in making money, I think I have more for you in the VIP (or whatever) room than you seem to be making here."

Either that guy is going to pony up some cash to keep her to himself or he'll have to sulk because she leaves his line of bullshit for your cold, hard, real cash.

Here's the best part: Hope the guy opens his, previously, closed wallet. He'll be, already, spending more than he planned to AND he'll spend double what he THINKS you were going to spend.

What does that get you? Stick around. You'll, nine time out of ten, probably swing a freebie take-out from her for being the cool guy who made the loser spend money he never intended to spend.

That's the best thing about strippers vs. escorts. Strippers are quick with the freebies to the guys they think are cool.

But if the guy just has no cash, she'll be at your table in a heart beat and you should, in return, take her to the back in half a heart beat.

I don't know about the rest of you but in the pay for play game, I'm looking for a visual stunner. If I'm in a strip club and I spot the girl I've just got to introduce Little Wazowski to, I'm letting her know, no matter what she's doing or who she's sitting with, that Mike has money and is ready to play for real.

I know she's not smart. I know no one in the club has taught her how to spot guys who are interested in her. I accept that the only thing that will take her mind off whatever it is that is distracting her from figuring out I want her in the back room is to come right out and interupt her and let her know where the action is.

It would seem that Brother Mike's Lesson would be 1) money talks and bullshit walks, and 2) sometimes you simply have to be The Big Dog!!

An excellent lesson, I would say!

Thanks Mike for the advice and I agree with you. I have wondered about that myself. The only reason I can think of is sometimes guys (not me) pay the strippers to sit and talk with them all night. I don't know how often this happens around here, but I heard in some places this does happen. Which is why she sits with the same guy for a long time.

[QUOTE=Legalize it]Thanks Mike for the advice and I agree with you. I have wondered about that myself. The only reason I can think of is sometimes guys (not me) pay the strippers to sit and talk with them all night. I don't know how often this happens around here, but I heard in some places this does happen. Which is why she sits with the same guy for a long time.[/QUOTE]
That does happen in the low milage clubs, which are fading into the past, more and more.

I have not been in Diamond Dolls in a while but that and Mons Venus might be the last clubs without a completely secluded area for VIP dances - as far as I can think of.

But Mons is a "grind house," pun fully intended. Get 'em in. Get there money. Get 'em out.

The old style topless clubs with wide open dance areas were more prone to the school-boy crush type customer who'd pay the girl he wanted to impress to do nothing.

The way the action is in most clubs, now, a guy would be a fool to be paying a girl to just sit with him. Mind you, they still exist. It's just not often the case.

Usually, the dancer is sitting with a guy who doesn't piss her off and she's convinced herself that there was "no money there today" when she didn't have over one hundred dollars after her first hour on the floor.

And that's why a guy has to show her the money if she's the girl he really wants in back. The decision that there is "no money here today" being made after the first hour of her shift is almost a universal trait of dancers. At that point she's sitting with a no-money club groupie who she can at least talk to and not get bitched at for not working the floor. And once a dancer has decided that there will be no money for the day she's not going to look for it. It must look for her.

The gift, for the monger, is that if he does get her in back, she's going to be very greatful.

[QUOTE=John Kelly]It would seem that Brother Mike's Lesson would be 1) money talks and bullshit walks, and 2) sometimes you simply have to be The Big Dog!!

An excellent lesson, I would say![/QUOTE]

Once in YS, I had my eye on a particular dancer. Made eye contact, tipped her on stage but she did not come by. She preferred to sit with a group of dancers at a table near the DJ booth. I sat in YS for a couple of hours keeping my eye on her from time to time but ended up getting dances from a couple of other girls.

As I was preparing to leave, she finally came by and asked me if I wanted some company. I kind of chuckled at her and told her that she should have come by awhile ago when I was interested. Now it was late and it was time to go. Besides I spent my money getting a lot of dances from Dancer X. She asked how many dances I got and it told her. "Oh, I don't know. Maybe ten or so. I kind of lost count."

Next time I was in, she made a bee line for me as soon as she saw me. Sad part was, her dances were really tame!

I'm gonna respectfully disagree with Master Mike's advice, although I will also say that if that works for him, then great. I'm also gonna not so respectfully disagree with Pink Chaser. This is not about any guy feeling sorry for himself because he's being ignored or the dancer's having any sort of obligation to do anything besides dance. This is purely about most dancer's complete lack of business sense.

I'll also disagree with Mike that "even a shitty stripper makes more in a day than the average working man". One certainly would think they would be true or why else would they continue to work in what to most people would be a completely demeaning occupation, but most of dancer's also seem to be lacking in basic common sense. Among other clues, I know this to be true because a) I've seen the cars most of these gal's drive (if they even have their own car) which are not exactly those of high or even moderate earners, b) I know many of them are constantly getting their cell phone's shut off for lack of payment, and c) I've even seen where some of them live which are often times not much better than trailer homes if even that. I might add that many of them are often bitching and moaning about how little they're earning or how they don't have enough money to pay this bill or that, except that one can never really trust anything any of these gals say.

Now I will grant that there are many gals, particularly the much hotter dancers or the ones who DO know enough to go around the clubs hustling for dances or the ones that work at the more upscale clubs that cater to the guys who make much more than "the average working man" or else average working men who are foolish enough to blow through their paychecks by paying dancers $20 just to talk to them or consider coming over to them to discuss a VIP dance (which they then pay for on TOP of the $20 enticement fee), but most dancers at most clubs don't fall into any of those categories. I will also grant that it is also entirely possible that "even a shitty stripper [really does] makes more in a day than the average working man", but they're always coming up short to pay all their bills and are living like trailer park trash because they blow all the money they're really making in the clubs to pay for their drug habits. But that is another story.

Which brings me back to why I started this post. If these dancers smartened up enough to realize that in this economy they're gonna have to hustle a lot more if they want to make any serious money and a) stop wasting their time talking to losers who aren't going to pull the trigger and pay them for some dances while there are other guys in the club who have indicated they might have an interest in doing that by tipping them while they were on stage and b) taking the extra 2-3 minutes before going back to their loser customers to go around the club to thank all those guys in the club who have indicated they might have an interest in doing that by tipping them while they were on stage and maybe, just maybe, getting them to go for a private dance, then maybe, just maybe, more of them really would make more in a day than the average working man. BTW, I referred to the non-paying customer as loser but really if he manages to get a dancer to spend that much time with him without having to constantly stuff her garter with bills then that's really much more HER choice/mistake and not his and my hat actually goes off to him.

And, as for the $20 enticement method, that seems to me to be a very expensive/extravagant way of making a point. And I seriously doubt it will make any real impression on either the guy or the girl. The guy MIGHT be guilted into throwing away $20 to get the girl to keep sitting with him but more likely (particularly if he is as cheap as you seem to think) he'll just say to the girl "hey, you're here to make money, go ahead and take this guy's and I'll talk to you later" and as often as not the dancer will just return directly to that guy after she's given you your dance because she'll figure your money (and pistola) has already been spent.

Wooky's approach is much closer to the one I've taken, basically letting the dancer, that you would have blown all your money on, know what she passed up as you leave the club. If I'm gonna be spending $20 on anyone its gonna be to go to bat and buy some actual dances and not just to get to walk up to the plate.

Valid points by all. I for one have long given up trying to figure out what makes some of these dancers tick. I was chatting with one once and all she did was bi*ch and moan about how she was not making any money. And what had she been doing the entire time I was in the club? Sitting at a table with a couple of other dancers, going back into the dressing room, coming back out and making a lap around the club without stopping to talk to anyone and returning to her table.

When I pointed her behavior out to her as a possible reason for her lack of funds, she disagreed with me and said it was just because the club was full of losers without any money. I could only assume then that she was telepathic in order to read everyones mind or she had some sort of x-ray vision that allowed her to see the contents of our wallets.

She finally got around to asking me for a dance with the "I guess you don't want a dance either" line. I told her no thanks if that is how you are asking. "Another loser with no money" she replied to which countered by pulling out my wallet and showing her my collection of numerous twenty dollar bills. I just smiled at her and said "big mistake" where she stomped off and returned to her table.

That's another great tale, Wook, and I, like you, would never pretend that I've actually figured these gals out but I would venture one theory. As guys whose traditional role it is to always be the pursuer, we should know as well as any one how tough it can be to walk up to a stranger in some club and attempt a pick-up. We also should well understand the feeling one gets when one gets shot down. But we've had to do it our whole lives so we've more or less learned to deal with it (usually by coming to see it as purely a numbers game rather than some personal affront). I'd IMAGINE for these girls it is a lot tougher. All their lives guys have been pursuing THEM, having to come up to THEM, and, especially being as attractive as some of these gals are, if they've ever had to initiate the approach, they probably haven't had to deal with so much rejection.

Fast forward to when they start working in a strip club where they're not just offering up their pussies for free but are trying to extract as much dinero out of the guy for it as they can, particularly in the current economy where fewer guys have the sort of disposible income that they may have thrown around in days past. In that sort of situation, these girls probably do suffer a lot of rejection (turn downs), not because the guys are cheap or losers but because most guys don't see the value in lavishing stacks and stacks of bills just to watch a girl shake her ass. And to get a guy to lay out the sort of money they ask for in the VIP room (typically nearly twice the standard BP and CL rates in this area), most guys expect a girl to deliver something a lot more than just a private lap dance. If she can't promise that, then most guys these days will be very reluctant to pull the trigger and be very selective in who they do agree to do a VIP session with. So naturally, these gals are either going to have to put on a stage show that suggests they are a little wilder and looser than the other girls or else they are going to have to do a lot of dick rubbing, neck nuzzling and muttered promises in their ear to convince a guy that HER half hour VIP will really be worth the $150 it typically costs.

Unfortunately, these gals are either too proud, too lazy or too stupid to figure that out and so they react to the constant rejection not by improving their offer or hustling more but by giving up and assuming that NONE of the guys in the place can be had.
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BTW, I think another few factors may be in play. A lot of these gals will be a bit suspicious of a new guy who comes into a place and does not order an alcoholic beverage, or at least if they think he looks like he might be a cop. Not that I look much like a cop, but I often just ordered bottled water when I went to these clubs until one dancer explained that to me. Now I always at least order a beer for my first drink whenever I go to a place I haven't been to before.

Another reason that I've heard them give for not going up to a guy is if they don't see him tipping any of the girls on stage, particularly if he's a complete ass and takes a stage-side seat and then doesn't tip each girl performing right in front of him. For those guy's they, probably rightly, assume to be too cheap to go for any dances. So another thing I always make a point of doing is tipping even the dancers I'm not really interested in (unless they're completely hideous, in which case I figure they might as well learn sooner rather than later that they really shouldn't be dancing) AND trying to do it when the dancers I AM interested in can see. After all, it usually averages only a buck per ~10 minute set or ~$6/hr for the privilege of enjoying the show (a little more for the dancers one likes and a little less or none for the uggo's), so if you go to a strip joint and you're not even spending that little extra amount (over the cost of cover and drinks), then perhaps the girl's are really right about you.

One last rationalization that I think the dancers use as an excuse for not going up to some guys is if they see their friends do it and get shot down. This is really a shame because often times the reason why I shoot down the first few girls who come up to me is because it seems it is usually the uglier (or older) ones who are the most aggressive and come up first (mostly because even more so than the other girls, they really have to be in order to make any money). Then what I suspect ends up happening is they go back to their little cluster of dancers and tell their friends that you don't have any money, or are one of those cheap bastards rather than acknowledge that maybe you just don't have any money for THEM because they're old and/or ugly and shouldn't be dancing any more.

One would think tipping more than the usual amount when they're on stage would be a pretty good buy signal, but I've even told some "see me about a dance when you get off" as I tipped them and then seen an hour or more pass before they'd come by if they come by at all (and not because they're busy by other guys taking them in the back). At that point, I often tell them that I would have gone for a dance if they had come by a half hour ago but that now I'm getting ready to leave, because I don't like to reward what I feel is inconsiderate behavior. I've also tried indicating interest more subtly by TRYING to make eye contact from across the room to which they usually seem completely oblivious (or maybe ignore cuz it creeps them out?), calling out to them while they've walked by my table and even sometimes reaching out and gently grabbing their arm to get their attention while they pass (figuring maybe they couldn't hear me because of the music). Sometimes those things work, but a surprising amount of the time they don't.

[QUOTE=Chase Star]That's another great tale, Wook, and I, like you, would never pretend that I've actually figured these gals out[/QUOTE]

No one will ever figure them out. BUT, as I've mentioned in the past, my last twenty years of work have given me the opportunity to see the inside workings of the area strip clubs. I've been behind the curtain. I've seen how the magician does his tricks. The pure and simple fact is that strippers are going to be inconsiderate and, often, just down right stupid.

Think about it. These are girls (the young ones) who've been getting anything they want handed to them by guys just because they look hot. Most of them since they were very young teens.

They see no reason to be nice to you until you've been nice to them. It's just the way it is. They are not going to change.

Now if, as has been tossed around, anyone enjoys going to a strip club. Not spending much money or spending their money on a girl that was their second or third choice... Well, that's cool. Enjoy.

I just figure if you're heading into a club known for action, looking for action, you might as well just walk right up to your number one choice and let her know you're ready. Because nine times out of ten, she's not going to approach you, no matter what signs you give.


[QUOTE=Chase Star]Unfortunately, these gals are either too proud, too lazy or too stupid to figure that out and so they react to the constant rejection not by improving their offer or hustling more but by giving up and assuming that NONE of the guys in the place can be had.[/QUOTE]

That is, exactly, what they do. Like I said, less than $100 in her garter in the first hour means there is no money today.

Elsewhere, either you or Wook mentioned girls bitching about not making money. In stripper-speak, "not making money" means that she's looking at making $100-$150 for the day. Yes, to a stripper, that's not money.

Again this is from twenty years of seeing behind the curtain and what I meant when I said that even a shitty stripper makes more in a day than the average working man. Average work-a-day jobs around here are in the $10-$12 an hour range and most every stripper in most every club is going home with more than $100 each day. Just remember, to her, "making money" means she goes home with more than $200.

And, yeah, these are the magic firm numbers every stripper uses. She's not staying where she makes less than $100 a day. That's a club that sucks, to her. She will stay at a place where some days she "doesn't make money," which means $100-$150 on a bad day, as long as she "makes money" a couple days a week.

[QUOTE=Chase Star]
One last rationalization that I think the dancers use as an excuse for not going up to some guys is if they see their friends do it and get shot down. This is really a shame because often times the reason why I shoot down the first few girls who come up to me is because it seems it is usually the uglier (or older) ones who are the most aggressive and come up first (mostly because even more so than the other girls, they really have to be in order to make any money). Then what I suspect ends up happening is they go back to their little cluster of dancers and tell their friends that you don't have any money, or are one of those cheap bastards rather than acknowledge that maybe you just don't have any money for THEM because they're old and/or ugly and shouldn't be dancing any more.[/QUOTE]

You are dead on on this one, Chase. And I can't, for the life of me, figure this out. It's almost like the good looking ones can't see how hideous the old, fat nasty girls are. (I've never figured out why clubs even hire them but that's a whole 'nother discussion!)

But, again, this is where the monger has got to take control and be aggressive. I'll outright tell the fat, old nasties not to waste time with me. I'll even give them five or ten bucks on the condition they go get the girl I'm interested in and bring her over to me.

I also make a point to tell managers that I am offended by the fat, old nasties and that it might be hurting them to have that as their front line. Because, like you said, they are the ones with nothing to do and they are on a guy like stink on shit the minute he sits down. Not the way I want to start my strip club experience. So I don't.


[QUOTE=Chase Star]One would think tipping more than the usual amount when they're on stage would be a pretty good buy signal, but I've even told some "see me about a dance when you get off" as I tipped them and then seen an hour or more pass before they'd come by if they come by at all (and not because they're busy by other guys taking them in the back). At that point, I often tell them that I would have gone for a dance if they had come by a half hour ago but that now I'm getting ready to leave, because I don't like to reward what I feel is inconsiderate behavior. I've also tried indicating interest more subtly by TRYING to make eye contact from across the room to which they usually seem completely oblivious (or maybe ignore cuz it creeps them out?), calling out to them while they've walked by my table and even sometimes reaching out and gently grabbing their arm to get their attention while they pass (figuring maybe they couldn't hear me because of the music). Sometimes those things work, but a surprising amount of the time they don't.[/QUOTE]

This is what you have to write off to "bright shiny object syndrome." Ever see the Family Guy episodes with James Woods. Every time he becomes a nuisance, Peter traps him by leaving a trail of candy. With each new piece, James Woods gets excited and exclaims, "Oh! Piece of candy!"

That's a stripper every minute of every day. Telling her while she's on stage you are interested is fine. Just remember that between then and when she might get to you, about one million or so bright and shiny objects will distract her and she will have to pay a bit of attention to each one of them before she moves on. "Oh! Piece of candy!"

In their real lives, they have shitty boyfriends or husbands because these are the guys with enough time on their hands and nothing else to do. Thus, they are able to plant themselves in front of her every step of the way to keep her as a girlfriend. They make themselves the first and last distraction everyday, along with most of the distractions in between.

That's why you see strippers on their cell phones all the time. The boyfriends are calling all day or night reminding them to come home. Because, and I'm not exagerating, if they are not reminded to come home, some distraction will plant itself in front of her and she will not go home until she runs out of distractions. And that might take days!

So, if that's the girl you want in that strip club, you're best to tip her on stage and then plant yourself in front of her the minute she gets off. Tell her you want a dance or to go to the VIP room. She'll want to go to the dressing room. Take a seat near by and get in front of her when she comes out or, in most cases, she's not going to find her way back to you.

Like I said, in a strip club I'm looking for the girl who visually stimulates me the most. If I decide I want to sample her in back, I'm going to make sure I do. I'm not going to wait for her to come to me. I accept that she won't. I'm not going to spend my money on the girl who has "more sense." Because, really, who cares how much sense she has? I'm ONLY spending money on the girl who I decide I want to spend the time with.

And alluding to another post in the thread... I think most of us on this board have been dealt some pretty good cards in life. A twenty dollar bill to get the girl's attention is a drop in the bucket.

[QUOTE=Mike Wazowski]... And alluding to another post in the thread... I think most of us on this board have been dealt some pretty good cards in life. A twenty dollar bill to get the girl's attention is a drop in the bucket.[/QUOTE]As I said before, if that's your approach and it works for you and you have that sort of money to throw around then good for you. Personally, even though I have plenty of 20's in my pocket (or I wouldn't go into the strip club to begin with), I do expect to get more VALUE for what I spend. In my view, no girl is so hot that she is worth $20 just to get her to talk to me. To me (and again maybe it is just me) that seems as absurd as those guys who throw a stack of 10-20 singles on the stage while a girl is dancing, I guess to somehow impress them or something, without getting to so much as cop a quick feel or anything. When they leave at the end of the night I'm sure they've blown through a lot more than just the $150 for a half hour VIP session and a lot of the time they don't even have the VIP session to show for it.

Sure, you can be guaranteed of getting laid in a strip club if you throw that type of money around, but at that point I think you get much better value simply calling up a tried and true BP girl and getting buck naked with her for a full hour (rather than just 15-30 minutes) of guaranteed no holds barred FS sex (rather than the simple BJ that some dancers limit themselves to in VIP such as the much vaunted Jayden at YS) spread out on a comfortable bed (rather than being much more limited in positions on a highly questionable couch) and more than just a flimsy curtain seperating you from an often nosey VIP room manager (e.g. Donnie at YS).

Maybe a better approach, one that we both could agree on, would be to walk up to your target girl who is wasting her time just talking to a guy who doesn't seem to be spending much money on her and SIMPLY HOLD UP your wad of cash with the 20's plainly visible for her to see (ie without actually giving it to her until AFTER she comes with you for the dance) and tell her "when you're ready to start actually making some money instead of just sitting around talking, then come see me, but don't take too long or some other dancer is going to get this". Then use your 20's towards actual dances or a VIP session with her rather than on just spending it just to get her attention.

I usually just give the waitress a tip and tell her to invite the girl to come visit me.

That works well.

[QUOTE=Chase Star]As I said before, if that's your approach and it works for you and you have that sort of money to throw around then good for you. Personally, even though I have plenty of 20's in my pocket (or I wouldn't go into the strip club to begin with), I do expect to get more VALUE for what I spend. In my view, no girl is so hot that she is worth $20 just to get her to talk to me. ....[/QUOTE]

I seldom jump in on these sorts of debates even though often they are quite interesting. This time around I would, with your permission guys, like to share what I think, what I know, and what I would recommend.

Aight so here's what I think. I think strippers are no different than any other regular girl in that no matter how much $ you put in if you don't do it right you will end up getting’ nothin’.

Here's what I know, you see that Chris Rock recording "There is no sex in the champaign room"?... well, He's absolutely wrong!

What I recommend, focus a bit less on you (the $ and when and how if you show it and this and that), and more on the girl, show up presentable (clean, smell nice), pick one you like, talk to her (meaning more like just listen to her, or at least try to appear to be), treat her nice, complement her a lot. I know it sounds like a lot of work, the kind of when you go out to a regular bar to hunt regular girls, but strippers are just not used to guys treating them nice so whatever work you put in will be miles more effective, if on top of that you carry a thick stack of 20’s (or even hundreds) you should be all set. You'll end up hitting at least half the girls in the club.

That said, I might add that strippers are mostly hookers in denial, they know they are hookers but they want to believe they’re not, and that’s why they are usually not cheap, if you are not willing to blow escort money+ and also put in the work, don’t even play that game.

For what is worth.

EPL