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[QUOTE=Tumbling Dice8]As for the touching situation, I don't think its as simple as that. If you have ever watched that "Real Vice Cops" show that comes on tv during the week, then you've probably seen some situations where touching has come into play. I did see one episode where a lady stradded the cop while he was sitting in a chair and he had his arms around her. Now, I'm sure he can say that she initiated 99% of the contact but I'm just posting to say that this isn't a true cut and dried issue. The one thing we all know for sure that they can't do is actually take their clothes off. Beyond that, its really a huge gray area and they will always get the benefit of the doubt within that gray area.[/QUOTE]Back in another lifetime when I was practicing criminal defense law, my prostitution clients would claim that the vice cops that busted them would do anything, up to and including fuck or receive a BJ, before busting them. I heard this from too many girls, and the details (names, sequence of events, etc.) were too similar for me not to give serious credence to this.

For that reason, if we're talking male cop/female provider, I'm not sure SM's tactic is entirely safe. I could easily see a (male) cop doing some heavy necking/petting before making the bust. I doubt that would even be considered misconduct (unlike going farther).

Cheers,

BCG

In my experience, if the client leaves his boxers or briefs on then I leave my bra and panties on as well. If they contact me for a massage, I make sure they know that's not necessarlily what I was advertising nor am I licensed but if that is how they would like to spend their TIME with me, then I'm ok with that.

SIDE NOTE: to advertise and/or charge for an unlicensed massage in the state of Tennessee is illegal. It's a class B misdemeanor.

[QUOTE]T. C. A 63-18-104 states "Any person or establishment who advertises or engages in massage for compensation without a current valid license from the massage licensure board commits a Class B misdemeanor. It is unlawful to use the word "massage" or any other term that implies massage technique or method when advertising a service by a person who is not licensed under this part or another chapter of state law. " [/QUOTE]HOWEVER, if they contact me for pictures then I will remove clothes and allow pictures but nothing else unless they want to remove their clothes before even remotely touching me. I suppose most providers have their own set of rules they follow.

I've been told they CAN touch but are not allowed to have direct touching contact with your "southern area".

Information tends to depend on the area of the state that you are located in as well. While the law is always the law, what they are willing to do to push and get the collar is another story!

I've even heard of the uncle completing the visit and then proceeding to arrest the girl and testify that he did NOT.

SO, everyone just be careful!

[QUOTE=Aimee Leigh]I've even heard of the uncle completing the visit and then proceeding to arrest the girl and testify that he did NOT.

SO, everyone just be careful![/QUOTE]That's what my former prostitution clients told me. Again, while one needs to consider the source, I heard it too many times from too many girls not to think there's not some truth behind it.

[i]Let's be careful out there.[/i]
--Sgt. Phil Esterhaus

Cheers,

BCG

The first time I dreamed with Nadia (Nadia who advertised on CL as busty 36dd, ebony,) she had me sign a piece of paper printed up as a short legal contract saying that her services were massage only and the paper I was signing also said that by signing I agreed that I was not a Pig or an undercover Pig. Is this a 100% foolproof thing that girls could do or would the police just lie their way out of the paper they signed too?

I just still can't believe the public is happy with the Memphis police spending tens of thousands of dollars and thousands of police man hours busting hookers, then all the hookers they bust are back on the street a few hours later. Seems like a pathetic waste of money and time.

I saw a provider in another city who uses the standard 2 call system to get to her in-call location, while at the 2nd call for final directions which was a gas station across from her apt complex (She can see the entire station from her window) she askd me to purchase a 6 pack and she would repay me. I said sure and purchased the six pack. She paid me for the 6 pack and offered me one. I had two while we got aquinted and told me that if i had not drunk the beer she would have asked me to leave as LEO cant drink. To make me secure that she was not Leo, she gave the little head a hand shake and kiss before discussing price.

For our legal advisers out there is this a legal tactic for the providers to use the drink test or is this another urban legend?

[QUOTE=Tnbootyseeker]For our legal advisers out there is this a legal tactic for the providers to use the drink test or is this another urban legend?[/QUOTE]If the cops have a regulation against drinking on duty, it would seem to be a good tactic. What would worry me is that the vice divisions tend to attract the scummiest, most corruptable cops, and I could certainly see where a vice cop in some PDs might well drink a beer with a target in order to get him/her, and their higher-ups might well ignore that and support the cop's committing perjury in his court appearances by denying that he did have a beer with the target.

Not that doing so would amount to making the target entitled to a not guilty verdict in court, though a lawyer who picked a good jury would be able to get a jury nullification on those facts.

Cheers,

BCG

I never understood why gals didn't sell some item like a very expensive pencil or your own personal drawing or something.

I knew a gal once who sold 'chapters' of erotic writing. No shit you would communicate, she would write, you would buy the 'poetry'.

After that transaction was complete .....

I'm no legal scholar but I bet it would hold up in a court of law. But I don't want to test it.

Anyone seen Tamara since she started posting on backpage and CL ? Damn those pictures look hot. Was wondering what her dreams cost now. Saw her on Lamar last week and looked hot driving past. May have to try that but not if the cost has gone up.....

[QUOTE=Wyldhorses]The first time I dreamed with Nadia (Nadia who advertised on CL as busty 36dd, ebony,) she had me sign a piece of paper printed up as a short legal contract saying that her services were massage only and the paper I was signing also said that by signing I agreed that I was not a Pig or an undercover Pig. Is this a 100% foolproof thing that girls could do or would the police just lie their way out of the paper they signed too?

I just still can't believe the public is happy with the Memphis police spending tens of thousands of dollars and thousands of police man hours busting hookers, then all the hookers they bust are back on the street a few hours later. Seems like a pathetic waste of money and time.[/QUOTE]
It's not so hard to believe the public wants this. Seeing where we are located" BIBLE BELT" It's just a shamed they think most of the crimes that happen, circle around prostitution. I talked to a good freind of mine, and asked him how he felt about it. He said it doesnt bother him because he doesnt have to bust em. He also said he has mixed feelings on the policy,because you do have a lot of crime around the trade, but mostly they bust them because the hookers sing like birds lol.

[QUOTE=Steve4]Anyone seen Tamara since she started posting on backpage and CL? Damn those pictures look hot. Was wondering what her dreams cost now. Saw her on Lamar last week and looked hot driving past. May have to try that but not if the cost has gone up.[/QUOTE]I saw, and reported on seeing her and her running buddy last summer and would not recommend. We agreed on two hours and they were there maybe 45 mins. Blow and go as I call it. SW's also posing and wanting to be Escorts. They sure are not the later. Just my opinion though. Good luck

Hawg

[QUOTE=Dkuym]I never understood why gals didn't sell some item like a very expensive pencil or your own personal drawing or something.

I knew a gal once who sold 'chapters' of erotic writing. No shit you would communicate, she would write, you would buy the 'poetry'.

After that transaction was complete .....

I'm no legal scholar but I bet it would hold up in a court of law. But I don't want to test it.[/QUOTE]And in Washington, DC, I heard of an escort who'd give guys a palm reading. During the reading, she'd start to rub the guy's hand and tell him that for some strange reason, the reading was getting her hot, and then she'd start unbuttoning her blouse and suggesting that she and the guy go to the bedroom and take care of her horniness.

Whether the situation is prostitution or consensual, non-commercial sex after a non-sexual transaction is a question for the jury to decide. I doubt that any jury would seriously buy such a transparent screen, but a jury that was correctly chosen by the defense lawyer might seize on that as a good enough pretext to acquit as a jury nullification.

Cheers,

BCG

[QUOTE=Tnbootyseeker]I saw a provider in another city who uses the standard 2 call system to get to her in-call location, while at the 2nd call for final directions which was a gas station across from her apt complex (She can see the entire station from her window) she askd me to purchase a 6 pack and she would repay me. I said sure and purchased the six pack. She paid me for the 6 pack and offered me one. I had two while we got aquinted and told me that if i had not drunk the beer she would have asked me to leave as LEO cant drink. To make me secure that she was not Leo, she gave the little head a hand shake and kiss before discussing price.

For our legal advisers out there is this a legal tactic for the providers to use the drink test or is this another urban legend?[/QUOTE]The drink test is one that may make her feel better; however, the fact is that she followed the rules with the "genetalia" test and furthermore by allowing the male to be placed into a position of inferiority. That is usually where LEO will balk. Anyone can "fake" sipping alcohol from a beer can; even some of the dumbest cops can pretend that (so I wouldn't put this down as a "foolproof" test).

The first rule that cops follow is that undercover officers will never allow themselves to be put into a position of not "maintaining control" of the situation. A single guy driving into an apartment complex (then walking alone into an apartment in which he's never been) is a very foolish thing for a cop to do. A pimp, a protector or a gang of thugs could very easily be hanging out in the next room. A cop would never put himself into a situation where he could be outnumbered 5:1 with no hope of immediate backup. This is the same reason a female undercover SW cop would never allow herself to climb into a monger's car and drive away.

Maintaining control and getting the "perp" out of their comfort zone is the key to all "busts". Have you ever seen a vice-bust where a lone agent breaks down a door and ruhses into a house and tells all 10 thugs inside to "freeze". It may happen in the movies, but not in real life. And here, a lone undercover cop would not venture into a new place with no backup and attempt to arrest a person in their apt when a gun may be pointed at their head from behind the bathroom door.

And she took it a step further making absolutely sure that he was entirely alone by scoping the monger before giving the location where she was.

Smart girl for following the rules! But as far as the "drink" rule goes, it's unnecessary and definitely not foolproof. In court, the prosecutor could easily argue that a beer or two over the course of an hour (a level that does not reach the level of "innebriation") would be extraneous evidence. And the beer itself has no direct connection to entrapment related to prostitution (where as the genetalia touching DOES have a direct legal connection to entrapment)

I enjoy seeing this kind of ingenuity, but there's already rules that, to this day, have been 100%.

So follow the rules as their written, and there's no need for outside experimentation.

Stay safe!

Wyldhorses,

Not to be a spoil sport, but the massage contract to me would NOT stand up for her in court and could possibly even harm her instead.

Because of the simple fact she's having them sign a paper ADMITTING that she's only giving them a massage she just admitted to the very crime I quoted earlier. As you can see, the law is pretty clear and that is straight out of the current T. C. A. SO, that particular provider might want to rethink her strategy.

IMHO

[QUOTE=Bluffcity Guy]Back in another lifetime when I was practicing criminal defense law, my prostitution clients would claim that the vice cops that busted them would do anything, up to and including fuck or receive a BJ, before busting them.[/QUOTE]You can read about cops like that in the CA all the time. For every one they catch, just imagine how many they don't catch....

[QUOTE=Aimee Leigh]I've even heard of the uncle completing the visit and then proceeding to arrest the girl and testify that he did NOT.[/QUOTE]You can never assume that life is fair, that the system works, or that cops won't cheat..... but, you can substantially stack the deck in your favor by paying attention and not being reckless.

[QUOTE=Wyldhorses]The first time I dreamed with Nadia (Nadia who advertised on CL as busty 36dd, ebony,) she had me sign a piece of paper printed up as a short legal contract saying that her services were massage only and the paper I was signing also said that by signing I agreed that I was not a Pig or an undercover Pig.[/QUOTE]How could you sign a contract agreeing you are not Law enforcement, unless you are admitting at the same time to be engaging in illegal activities? Now, legitimate massage services often do have first time clients sign service agreements that detail the scope of the service and ask for relevant health/medical information, but they don't include waivers for illegal activities or undercover sting operations!

[QUOTE=Dkuym]I knew a gal once who sold 'chapters' of erotic writing. No shit you would communicate, she would write, you would buy the 'poetry'.[/QUOTE]In theory, that is how escorts get by, getting paid for their time and companionship. It is similar to the disclaimers on the escort homepages that many of the providers have, except that the DA would argue that those are invalidated due to the "services" pages of the same websites that include and define things like bbj, bbbjcim, 69, msog, daty, doggy, exc...

[QUOTE=Jon24]The first rule that cops follow is that undercover officers will never allow themselves to be put into a position of not "maintaining control" of the situation.[/QUOTE]What Jon24 says (in good detail) is absolutely true for providers, but it leaves the monger vulnerable. Always maintain control of your environment; If that is not possible.... leave.

Stick to regulars and or known good providers and follow the rules. It's the best chance. LE can do almost anything and leave you having to prove otherwise to the judge or jury. Out of all this I've not seen the better mousetrap invented. Does anyone care to appeal their case all the way to the top? I don't think so.

The Constitution says innocent until proven guilty....Then there's the real world. IMHO.

TT