Printable View
[QUOTE=BigGuyUAteMe;4320094]Breakout a cold one and see what happens!
BG,
Have fun, play safe, do your research, give and get respect, find some crazy-good and TPHFB![/QUOTE]My greatest wish, is to feast on chocolate starfish!
Hail to the king!!
Kyussfan.
[QUOTE=SpinAndWin85;4319932]Apparently no one gets a second chance in this business. Mongers, PM me if you want further, truthful info on Jane Kim. And for the record, I don't bash anyone for no reason either. I just call 'em like I see 'em. Good or bad. If more of us did that on these forums, it would save us all a lot of time and money. Be safe![/QUOTE]I understand completely where you're coming from. But there's always one big "however. ".
However, no matter how often anyone sees a provider, unless they're living with her, they are only seeing that small slice of her time, just as the provider only gets to see what the customer shows them. We're all just intimate strangers.
Another factor to consider is that some providers aren't always truthful. How often has one given some sob story? How many times in a year can a grandmother die?
If you're too cautious, if you pay too much attention to warnings or concerns from others, the worst that happens is you end up missing out on someone. If you're not cautious enough, worst case you end up having some really difficult discussions with family, friends, employers, lawyers, cops, prosecutors and anyone else who wants to pass judgement on you.
Almost as bad is the situation where you tell everyone there's nothing to worry about and someone else ends up getting pinched. It leaves you looking like the rat.
If you're comfortable seeing her, that's great. Enjoy it. However, I'd resist the urge to give her a strong recommendation, unless you let people know that others have voiced concerns.
Well said, I have to agree there is real risk getting too trusting in this hobby. I am sure there are countless cautionary tales out there, that start with, "if I only. " I luvs the women as much as the next monger, but cannot put my way of life at risk for it.
[QUOTE=Jjbee62;4320313]I understand completely where you're coming from. But there's always one big "however. ".
However, no matter how often anyone sees a provider, unless they're living with her, they are only seeing that small slice of her time, just as the provider only gets to see what the customer shows them. We're all just intimate strangers.
Another factor to consider is that some providers aren't always truthful. How often has one given some sob story? How many times in a year can a grandmother die?
If you're too cautious, if you pay too much attention to warnings or concerns from others, the worst that happens is you end up missing out on someone. If you're not cautious enough, worst case you end up having some really difficult discussions with family, friends, employers, lawyers, cops, prosecutors and anyone else who wants to pass judgement on you.
Almost as bad is the situation where you tell everyone there's nothing to worry about and someone else ends up getting pinched. It leaves you looking like the rat.
If you're comfortable seeing her, that's great. Enjoy it. However, I'd resist the urge to give her a strong recommendation, unless you let people know that others have voiced concerns.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=AchyBreaky;4321209]Well said, I have to agree there is real risk getting too trusting in this hobby. I am sure there are countless cautionary tales out there, that start with, "if I only. " I luvs the women as much as the next monger, but cannot put my way of life at risk for it.[/QUOTE]The point is now moot. Jane Kim has left our fair city; just couldn't make a go of it with all the buzz about her past. I get it. Not sure where she will end up, but if seniors want any info, feel free to PM me. And as has been stated on this forum, we all can do with the differing info what we choose. I agree that it's what this site is for. Sorry to have stirred the pot so much. I try to report the good, the bad, and the ugly! And with that, it's the last you'll hear from me on this particular topic! Be safe!
[QUOTE=SpinAndWin85;4322315]The point is now moot. Jane Kim has left our fair city; just couldn't make a go of it with all the buzz about her past. I get it. Not sure where she will end up, but if seniors want any info, feel free to PM me. And as has been stated on this forum, we all can do with the differing info what we choose. I agree that it's what this site is for. Sorry to have stirred the pot so much. I try to report the good, the bad, and the ugly! And with that, it's the last you'll hear from me on this particular topic! Be safe![/QUOTE]Greetings from Fort Wayne.
It seems that Ms. Jane has made her way north to the Fort. Given the controversy on this thread and that my colleagues up here are thirsty for a quality provider, I am concerned that someone up here may run in to difficulty. So, if anyone is inclined, please PM me with details as to what has transpired and whether we in the Fort should be concerned.
Thanks gents.
Read this thread. Virtually the whole history of the "difficulty" referred to is contained herein. Good luck.
[QUOTE=JwBooth2007;4323400]Greetings from Fort Wayne.
It seems that Ms. Jane has made her way north to the Fort. Given the controversy on this thread and that my colleagues up here are thirsty for a quality provider, I am concerned that someone up here may run in to difficulty. So, if anyone is inclined, please PM me with details as to what has transpired and whether we in the Fort should be concerned.
Thanks gents.[/QUOTE]
Just checking in for nostalgia's sake, and I'm heartened to see that there is still a lot of drama in Indy. .
Now this is a review:
[QUOTE=EarlyCuyler;4315465]Because 50 bucks is pretty much nothing, I like fucking her, and it gets her to my place really fast.[/QUOTE]This is White Knighting:
[QUOTE=EarlyCuyler;4319699]Saw Charlie yesterday. She was prompt, lovely, and the service was awesome as usual. She has consistently been one of the better independent local providers.
I've seen some posts about her slow response time. I think it's important to remember that none of us are on the clock for our own jobs 24/7/365. I've never understood the concept of getting pissy if you don't receive a response to a text in YOUR timeframe, especially if you're new to the provider. I've seen Charli on multiple occasions, and even I don't expect her to respond to my neanderthal urges just because a text from me popped up on her phone. She does have a family and a life outside of the hobby. Most of us do as well. If you see her, treat her well. She's a very decent person.[/QUOTE]It's obvious that "a decent person" is a very broad term with you especially when you know the background.
[QUOTE=AaaGabriel812;4341513]Now this is a review:
This is White Knighting:
It's obvious that "a decent person" is a very broad term with you especially when you know the background.[/QUOTE]Don't expect one. I don't think EC cares what you have to say. Most on here don't.
[QUOTE=AaaGabriel812;4341513]Now this is a review:
This is White Knighting:
It's obvious that "a decent person" is a very broad term with you especially when you know the background.[/QUOTE]Any info is better than none. What one does with it is up to him. I welcome reviews of any kind. Don't be a dick.
[QUOTE=SpinAndWin85;4343086]Any info is better than none. What one does with it is up to him. I welcome reviews of any kind. Don't be a dick.[/QUOTE]Agree 100%. A differing point of view isn't necessarily white knighting, at least not what is referenced below from Early.
Going to be one bored dude Saturday.
Not much in the way of sites seeking a bit of fun.
Preferably low-cost or free.
Hope why'all can point me in the right direction?
[QUOTE=TwoFourJuliet;4351778]Going to be one bored dude Saturday.
Not much in the way of sites seeking a bit of fun.
Preferably low-cost or free.
Hope why'all can point me in the right direction?[/QUOTE]First off Welcome to the Forum. You actually put this post in the proper thread since I am sure others may have a different point of view. Not sure what sites you have been reviewing or if you haven't searched this site but there are providers that are reputable and safe. Look up reviews. See the classifieds on the sister site. With me saying you are not going to find a provider for free and the ones that you do find low cost I would be careful with. I would hate for you to get into trouble simply for not doing research. Good luck to you.
[QUOTE=TwoFourJuliet;4351778]Going to be one bored dude Saturday.
Not much in the way of sites seeking a bit of fun.
Preferably low-cost or free.
Hope why'all can point me in the right direction?[/QUOTE]You find free or cheap, be prepared to lose what you are carrying.
[QUOTE=BiteOfTheApple;4352667]You find free or cheap, be prepared to lose what you are carrying.[/QUOTE]Aye. Will definitely be leaving the valuables at home. Otherwise, it'll be porn and Astroglide. LOL.
[QUOTE=AllTheWay123;4381579]Saw Miss Charli just before she retired and all I can say is DAMN! Every single time I've seen this beauty, she's completely blown my mind. She's absolutely incredible and I love spending time with her. So I'm not a huge fan of her retirement! Not only is she amazing in bed, she's a good conversationalist as well. She never acts like I'm inconveniencing her or like she doesn't want to be around me, which is obviously always a good thing. LOL. Hopefully she'll still be down to hangout on occasion though. I think I'll try to hit her up later on. I'm sure I can think of a way to entice her 🤑 haha. Nevertheless, she's always going to be my #1 go to. I still think she's too good for the hobby, but glad she was in it! LOL. Have a good night fellas. Stay safe! 🙃.[/QUOTE]Unless, for some reason, Chrarli had something to do with this post, this is a bit creepy. Especially when you look at the post history (only 4 posts, 3 promoting Charli and one unknown because it was deleted by Admin). It's great to be able to make connections in this business, but it is business. To be blunt, let's try not to look like a bunch of stalkers.
[QUOTE=Jeast72;4381936]Unless, for some reason, Chrarli had something to do with this post, this is a bit creepy. Especially when you look at the post history (only 4 posts, 3 promoting Charli and one unknown because it was deleted by Admin). It's great to be able to make connections in this business, but it is business. To be blunt, let's try not to look like a bunch of stalkers.[/QUOTE]Regarding "unless Charli had something to with this post. " I generally, usually, most of the time get concurrence from the provider before I post a review.
For a while now, there's been a lot of noob's simple questions that could have easily found by a quick forum or Google search. I've even seen one question that had just been answered a couple days earlier, the answer was still on the same page as the noob's question. I try to give info when I can by post or pm but get tired of seeing the same questions over and over. I've started ignoring a lot of these simple questions as have most of the rest of you, obviously, since most have been going unanswered lately. In this case, at least a means of finding the answer was pointed out. It's great to be helpful but it's not on us to do the work that someone else doesn't want to take the effort to do.
It's ironic that the one who started all the fuss about it barely posts anything. Sure hasn't been going out of his way to answer the questions. Probably would have ignored this one if the wording of your response hadn't pissed him off.
In every other forum we give names, links, and info. Somehow AMP has become a game of hide and seek. Codenames are bullshit, we don't do it on any other forum. A2 specifically made a post months ago to stop the cryptic bullshit. This whole website is about posting information to get laid, the idea that the cops won't be able to figure it out is laughable. The rest of us slack jawed booger eating morons figured it out. If you take the time to post a reply, at least give the info they are looking for.
At least when I said "fuck your clues" I gave an address so they could get laid. Feel free to call out the noobs, but help some of the old gummers who may not be tech savvy enough so they can work the wrinkles out of there sausage.
Oh, and post count don't mean shit. Some of us don't have time to type all this shit so we just call each other or the providers to talk or meet up.
[QUOTE=Jeast72;4387944]For a while now, there's been a lot of noob's simple questions that could have easily found by a quick forum or Google search. I've even seen one question that had just been answered a couple days earlier, the answer was still on the same page as the noob's question. I try to give info when I can by post or pm but get tired of seeing the same questions over and over. I've started ignoring a lot of these simple questions as have most of the rest of you, obviously, since most have been going unanswered lately. In this case, at least a means of finding the answer was pointed out. It's great to be helpful but it's not on us to do the work that someone else doesn't want to take the effort to do.
It's ironic that the one who started all the fuss about it barely posts anything. Sure hasn't been going out of his way to answer the questions. Probably would have ignored this one if the wording of your response hadn't pissed him off.[/QUOTE]
AMP codes are bullshit, and any time I put a funny name in a title I at least give enough info that it's pretty damn obvious where I'm reporting on. Furthermore, is it really helpful to give a brief post of "had a good time will repeat" to anyone on the board? Why not share the nitty gritty to help other mongers know if they want to go or not, so as to save us all time and money? More help to mongers, and less wasted time, it's a win-win.
RBI.
[QUOTE=Untchbl;4388235]In every other forum we give names, links, and info. Somehow AMP has become a game of hide and seek. Codenames are bullshit, we don't do it on any other forum. A2 specifically made a post months ago to stop the cryptic bullshit. This whole website is about posting information to get laid, the idea that the cops won't be able to figure it out is laughable. The rest of us slack jawed booger eating morons figured it out. If you take the time to post a reply, at least give the info they are looking for.
At least when I said "fuck your clues" I gave an address so they could get laid. Feel free to call out the noobs, but help some of the old gummers who may not be tech savvy enough so they can work the wrinkles out of there sausage.
Oh, and post count don't mean shit. Some of us don't have time to type all this shit so we just call each other or the providers to talk or meet up.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Untchbl;4388235]In every other forum we give names, links, and info. Somehow AMP has become a game of hide and seek. Codenames are bullshit, we don't do it on any other forum. A2 specifically made a post months ago to stop the cryptic bullshit. This whole website is about posting information to get laid, the idea that the cops won't be able to figure it out is laughable. The rest of us slack jawed booger eating morons figured it out. If you take the time to post a reply, at least give the info they are looking for.
At least when I said "fuck your clues" I gave an address so they could get laid. Feel free to call out the noobs, but help some of the old gummers who may not be tech savvy enough so they can work the wrinkles out of there sausage.
Oh, and post count don't mean shit. Some of us don't have time to type all this shit so we just call each other or the providers to talk or meet up.[/QUOTE]Couldn't have said it better. If you know the answer off the top of your head, just type and send. If not, STFU and move on. This hobby can be risky and stressful enough without getting berated by one of our own.
There used to be a place way back they called Under the Sea. Under the Sea is a song from the little mermaid. A mermaid is the logo for starbucks. There was a starbucks next to the AMP. Fuck that boolshit, just tell me the name of the place so I can get my nut off.
I don't hobby anymore, but if I can jump on here to check some info for a friend and manage to figure out these places in 2 minutes then all the cloak and dagger shit is doing is frustrating someone.
Again:
Name of establishment.
Who you saw.
What did you get.
What you paid.
Don't care if you would repeat, I am not using your dick.
[QUOTE=RonBurgIndy;4388250]AMP codes are bullshit, and any time I put a funny name in a title I at least give enough info that it's pretty damn obvious where I'm reporting on. Furthermore, is it really helpful to give a brief post of "had a good time will repeat" to anyone on the board? Why not share the nitty gritty to help other mongers know if they want to go or not, so as to save us all time and money? More help to mongers, and less wasted time, it's a win-win.
RBI.[/QUOTE]
This goes for every review. Kinda bullshit I got to ask repeatedly what's on the menu due to limited details in 30 reviews. Fucks sake, why don't people here use ECCIE.
[QUOTE=Untchbl;4388483]There used to be a place way back they called Under the Sea. Under the Sea is a song from the little mermaid. A mermaid is the logo for starbucks. There was a starbucks next to the AMP. Fuck that boolshit, just tell me the name of the place so I can get my nut off.
I don't hobby anymore, but if I can jump on here to check some info for a friend and manage to figure out these places in 2 minutes then all the cloak and dagger shit is doing is frustrating someone.
Again:
Name of establishment.
Who you saw.
What did you get.
What you paid.
Don't care if you would repeat, I am not using your dick.[/QUOTE]
[blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]
[b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]: [/b] [blue]This report was edited or deleted because it appeared to be a public effort to [u]discourage members from posting information[/u]. If you have a concern about information posted by another member, then please contact them privately by PM. Please read the Forum's Posting Guidelines for further information.
We had a conversation about this, I told you what would happen the next time you tried to curtail guys from posting.
In case you're wondering, shit like this is why there are not any female members on this forum. Some of you simply cannot stop trying to control guys. I get it, they pay more when they are stupid and scared. They pay A LOT more for A LOT less and that's good for you. That is not what this forum is. This forum is about men sharing information to maximize their experience with commercial sex.
When I let you come back I told you, SPECIFICALLY, not to do this.
I won't make that mistake again.
A2[/blue]
[blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]
[b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]: [/b] [blue]This report was edited or deleted because it appeared to be a public effort to [u]discourage members from posting information[/u]. If you have a concern about information posted by another member, then please contact them privately by PM. Please read the Forum's Posting Guidelines for further information.
That's the second time you have advocated this. Seriously, if you want to cut your nuts off and giftwrap them for the provider of your choice feel free but I'm not letting you spread that weak shit here.
Be a man, write what you want, if a chick doesn't like it then take that money and give it to a different chick.
A2[/blue]
I am often amused by the "cryptic" nature of some posts. Some of you guys are very creative at certain descriptions. However, it can frustrating if one is not familiar with the location in question.
[QUOTE=Mmgeg1;4388915]I personally have never understood the whole AMP thing and why you need a decoder ring to figure them out.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Hadan1334;4389779]Never heard of Eccie until the past few posts. I like the review format I saw, however I understand why you don't like them so detailed. Would you say it's good practice to ask a legitimate provider (obviously inform about scams and ripoffs) if they're okay with you posting a review and the level of detail she's okay with?
Also why is eccie not used more often? I feel like reviews like that would be very, very helpful.[/QUOTE]Not if you wish to stop the never ending spread of GPS.
Write your review, if she doesn't like it then fuck somebody else.
Could you imagine asking your mechanic if he or she is ok with getting a review regarding their service?
A2.
[QUOTE=AaaGabriel812;4341513]Now this is a review:
This is White Knighting:
It's obvious that "a decent person" is a very broad term with you especially when you know the background.[/QUOTE]Naw that's not white knighting. Its a very glowing review. But there is plenty of white knighting. Its usually behind the scenes and in the sugar forum. But they are easy to spot. This one dude is so proud of it, if you ignore him he'll Pm you and give himself away. LOL not to mention the damsel in distress rats him out LOL. I have learned to just ignore it.
[QUOTE=Fav6977;4390216]I am often amused by the "cryptic" nature of some posts. Some of you guys are very creative at certain descriptions. However, it can frustrating if one is not familiar with the location in question.[/QUOTE]Its like when your family wants to go to an " escape room" or a game of clue that you really arent into. LOL I don't go to AMP's (not cause I look down on them, its just not my thing) but I have read the AMP section. Its like a mason lodge code or something, geese fly east secret hand shake. Its pretty comical.
[QUOTE=WreckItRight;4391137]Its like when your family wants to go to an " escape room" or a game of clue that you really arent into. LOL I don't go to AMP's (not cause I look down on them, its just not my thing) but I have read the AMP section. Its like a mason lodge code or something, geese fly east secret hand shake. Its pretty comical.[/QUOTE]Speaking of cryptic stuff, why do people "dream" when reporting? I can't imagine the police coming to your house and jailing you for saying "I banged some hog for 60 bucks. " Why oh why? Check out massage section in Columbia SC. I find that rather annoying.
You mongers need new definitions.
As a man of caution, I always "sniff test" the goods with a little prior finger action before ever venturing south on a lady.
I'm amazed at how many reviews say clean and tastes great, yet my finger comes back with some offshoot turpentine with a yeasty acidic infection mixture of odors that could rip paint off the walls and send a household of cockroaches running for the hills.
Strangely enough, MILFY is the only provider I've met in town that smells nice and clean, though I didn't go downtown anyway due to her extremely high volume. (Won't let my dick near it, though I don't partake full service to begin with).
Sincerely,
Nuruguru.
P.S.: Seriously, what the fuck is that smell?
[QUOTE=NuruGurus;4391624]You mongers need new definitions.
As a man of caution, I always sniff test the goods with a little prior finger action before ever venturing south on a lady.
I'm amazed at how many reviews say clean and tastes great, yet my finger comes back with some offshoot turpentine with a yeasty acidic infection mixture of odors that could rip paint off the walls and send a household of cockroaches running for the hills.
Strangely enough, MILFY is the only provider I've met in town that smells nice and clean, though I didn't go downtown anyway due to her extremely high volume. (Won't let my dick near it, though I don't partake full service to begin with).
Sincerely,
Nuruguru.
P.S.: Seriously, what the fuck is that smell?[/QUOTE]For the record, Milfy tastes like rainbows and happiness.
[QUOTE=Monsignor;4428632]Just out of curiosity, I decided to see how much longer it takes to type in a post asking for location, rather than use the search feature of USASG. Surprisingly, it took me six seconds less to type in the question than to actually look for the answer myself. Of course that doesn't include the delay in waiting for a response. In this case, an hour and 24 minutes. LOL.[/QUOTE]Alright this is getting old. I'm not even the one asking for these locations but how condescending everyone is kind of nuts. Completely ignoring the original guy who asked I'll say my piece. I legitimately can't search 90% of the time because I'm on mobile and the search bugs out usually. It makes it extremely hard to navigate and read when it does. I know not everyone has problems like this. But if you don't want to respond and help him out then don't. If someone does they'll do it. It's appreciated by people who may not get to always search right away.
I just don't get how a forum literally made to share information has gotten their panties in a knot about sharing said information.
[QUOTE=Hadan1334;4428889]Alright this is getting old. I'm not even the one asking for these locations but how condescending everyone is kind of nuts. Completely ignoring the original guy who asked I'll say my piece. I legitimately can't search 90% of the time because I'm on mobile and the search bugs out usually. It makes it extremely hard to navigate and read when it does. I know not everyone has problems like this. But if you don't want to respond and help him out then don't. If someone does they'll do it. It's appreciated by people who may not get to always search right away.
I just don't get how a forum literally made to share information has gotten their panties in a knot about sharing said information.[/QUOTE]With all due respect, sometimes condescension is the most appropriate response. How about we just agree that there should be no problem with providing information, and no problem with an expectation that those looking for the information will expend some nominal effort to acquire it.
[QUOTE=Hadan1334;4428889]Alright this is getting old. I'm not even the one asking for these locations but how condescending everyone is kind of nuts. Completely ignoring the original guy who asked I'll say my piece. I legitimately can't search 90% of the time because I'm on mobile and the search bugs out usually. It makes it extremely hard to navigate and read when it does. I know not everyone has problems like this. But if you don't want to respond and help him out then don't. If someone does they'll do it. It's appreciated by people who may not get to always search right away.
I just don't get how a forum literally made to share information has gotten their panties in a knot about sharing said information.[/QUOTE]That is all.
[QUOTE=Monsignor;4429307]With all due respect, sometimes condescension is the most appropriate response. How about we just agree that there should be no problem with providing information, and no problem with an expectation that those looking for the information will expend some nominal effort to acquire it.[/QUOTE]It's like you didn't even read my post lmao. Sometimes people may not be able to easily access it. It's not like the guy you two were responding to doesn't provide any information. He clearly has. If you don't want to help because it's out there already then don't. No need to be a dick. That's all I'm saying.
[QUOTE=Hadan1334;4430165]It's like you didn't even read my post lmao. Sometimes people may not be able to easily access it. It's not like the guy you two were responding to doesn't provide any information. He clearly has. If you don't want to help because it's out there already then don't. No need to be a dick. That's all I'm saying.[/QUOTE]Would it be to hard to commuincate that your on a moble otherwise people assume when the info is right there your just being lazy. Commuincation is key.
[QUOTE=Hadan1334;4430165]It's like you didn't even read my post lmao. Sometimes people may not be able to easily access it. It's not like the guy you two were responding to doesn't provide any information. He clearly has. If you don't want to help because it's out there already then don't. No need to be a dick. That's all I'm saying.[/QUOTE]That encouraging people to ignore questions is going to work out well for someone who has a legitimate need to ask questions. When enough people start ignoring them, the only ones left to answer may be the guys that only read about 1 in 20 posts. Will they have read one that has the answers you seek?
I'm curious about the mobile issues. On an android phone and an iPad I have used Chrome and Safari browsers without any major issues (except when trying to read PM replies). I even tried the Tor browser. It sucks all around for this forum but the search is no worse than anything else.
[QUOTE=CheapTrick;4454568]Those negative reports about her are very uncharacteristic from our multiple experiences together. She still ranks as one of my favorites. Not every visit with these ladies can live up to what Sue provides, just be careful what we post about their normal careers because they didn't live up to expectations. Heidi is legitimately in the medical field and raising a young child as a single mother. Let's not try to jeopardize that for the hobby they provide us all. No, she is no longer making videos. Those were back in '13 or '14 and those websites will continue to brandish them as new to make a buck. I say enjoy that beautiful spinner figure while we still can, she's worth it to me.[/QUOTE]Listen, you may have had the most knee buckling experience of your life without Heidi, so good for.
You.
However, this is a site that has mongers give reviews of encounters with providers.
Guess what? My meeting with her wasn't good. It was passable because of her size and appearance. That was it. She was aloof and performed like a dead fish.
As for calling her out on what she does for a living, she blasts that info in her own ads!! She also blabs about it to her johns. So, don't call us out and White Knight. The vast majority of us have had bad experiences, we are just being truthful. She puts her own career in jeopardy by turning tricks and making porn videos.
I have a question regarding STD testing and wasn't exactly sure which subforum it should go in. I have no reason to believe I have a problem in this department but I was curious about regular testing. Given this hobby I see it as a wise idea to stay informed as possible. If you prefer to pm that's ok, but I'm basically looking for someone who has experience / info on getting regularly tested under the radar. (A. K. a. Without spouse involvement) Anyone? Sorry if this is in the wrong section.