"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2573039]So is it just me, or have others noticed a trend with the young pots they are meeting and their love of electronic dance music (EDM). Almost every pot I have met who is under 23 is absolutely crazy about it.

Ended up buying my blonde swim instructor a monthly subscription to Pandora (the music service). Talk about cheap bang for your buck (literally). $5 a month is nothing to me, but she loves it. Added bonus is that because its monthly, it helps to remind her of another perk that will be lost if she steps out of line.[/QUOTE]I have run into several POTs that are in love with EDM.

This genre is hugely popular with college age girls. The party scene is amazing. You should let your POT take you to one.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2572244]With my method of no up front money discussion, this kind of thing becomes a complete non-issue. So maybe it is a cop with a fake pic, who cares if you haven't broken the law? It completely liberates you to focus on other things.

I've found linking phone numbers to addresses to be completely unreliable due to rapid turnover of burner phone and other disposable phone numbers so that part wouldn't concern me enough to hold off for a meeting.

I'm not sure the lack of FB / twitter is really a red flag. I like to research them a little before hand, but some girls will use fake names, etc. A lot of them exclude their face from sexy (nude or semi nude etc.) pics, but it's not unreasonable to ask for a normal pic showing face, assuming you've sent one of yourself. I wouldn't meet her without that, because she could send a pic of anyone then a hog shows up for the M&G, wasting time.[/QUOTE]JL, how have / would you handle girls who, during the M&G but before heading to the FC, ask how much sugar they are going to get?

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2573163]
Unfortunately I did not leverage the recession to buy low and sell high. My biggest regret was not buying Ford Motor when it hit bottom at the end of 2008 (and then went up over 10 times in the next 2 years). I grew up with the adage that whats good for General Motors is good for the country (and they went bust). So instead of following my gut and in spite of my better instincts I held my assets close and spent out of my savings to cover my nut until maybe this year. My portfolio actually did go up during the recession (just very slowly) due to ultra conservative investing . And I passed on all the recent and amazing tech IPO's. So the $ plan is still in effect.[/QUOTE]Just to finish the description of my circumstances and where I was going with all of this. I did invest heavily into my own business during the recession. So even though my income dropped 75%, my ability to get back on track again is solid due to fat trimming, software upgrades, increased hiring, and better training of staff during that time. But the $ plan has done more than keep me within my budget. It has allowed me and forced me to dig deeper into the female psyche to be able to get what I really need to be satisfied. As opposed to just tossing money around and then not even being all that happy with the results beyond the shear physical beauty of the girls I was with.

I may have less trophy fucks (although many are still stunning), but I have dropped to the overall 8's in looks (mostly 7/9's . because for me, body trumps face). As opposed to going straight for the overall 9's and 10's, in spite of possibly encountering some psychological and/or bedroom skills deficiencies.

Even the virgin will hold a special place in my heart for years to come. She went against her nature in an effort to fix what she perceived to be a desperate situation, because in reality she is actually far from desperate. So what she lacked in skills she more than made up for in character, as she did her best to please me.

(And she did please me in so many ways).

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2573042]Agree with you about the crazy sex and the I love you stage. Something about having emotion in the mix that makes sec better. The problem though is that I have found that some women can't separate the play acting from real life. Then, once they get emotionally attached, it becomes a different kind of game entirely.

Life is just a series of tradeoffs though I guess.[/QUOTE]The SB matrix is awesome, but complicated in a sense. At the start, you're banging chicks left and right. Once you find one with substance you're moving at a faster pace. Because finances are discussed upfront and there's an open discourse on expectations. The relationship moves along faster than civi dating. I recall a girl I dated briefly that I met in a bar needed $100 for an out of state trip and I wouldn't budge. Whereas when my SB needed $1000 for rent I send it to her with no problem.

In a 9-month period of sugar dating I've banged between 20-30 girls. Maybe 5-6 were in regular rotation. The spinner that's now my GF was like a pin-needle stuck in my brain. No matter what happened or new SB that I had a fling with I knew I couldn't replace her. So we're now living together and nearing the "love you" stage. This morning she left to buy books for school and kissed me while in bed and said "have a good day, daddy".

The SB / SD mind f at *k is totally real. I don't know how this is going to end, but it's been an awesome ride since joining the bowl. I'm knocking the door on 40, so I'm a younger SD. When I look at my 23 yo, SB / GF walk around my penthouse with her tight ass and pu'see lips hanging out her panties all day I realize that everything is right in the world. God Bless America!

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2573039]So is it just me, or have others noticed a trend with the young pots they are meeting and their love of electronic dance music (EDM). Almost every pot I have met who is under 23 is absolutely crazy about it.

Ended up buying my blonde swim instructor a monthly subscription to Pandora (the music service). Talk about cheap bang for your buck (literally). $5 a month is nothing to me, but she loves it. Added bonus is that because its monthly, it helps to remind her of another perk that will be lost if she steps out of line.[/QUOTE]Current SB is in to this as well. To get sugar under control I gave my SB a credit card. The card has a decent limit on it. I've actually made out better by giving her a card. I pay the balance off monthly. Since she's had it she's never maxed it out. I observered her spending habits and it's a few subscription services for music, cosmetic refills and some day to day stuff like coffee, gas and food.

If things do fall out between is I'm sure she'd be taking a hit. At the stage we're at now I don't know how she could go back to regular dating for her age group.

[QUOTE=DogSun;2573187]JL, how have / would you handle girls who, during the M&G but before heading to the FC, ask how much sugar they are going to get?[/QUOTE]There is no canned script that would cover where I would take the conversation in every situation. Every social interaction is different, and how those interactions unfold starts with the very first e-mail or message. I don't send out form letters or work in bulk or batches.

So, short version of the story something like you describe has only happened once to me and it ended up with no trip to the FC.

But let's say a girl who I thought was a good POT ends up getting as far as the dinner table and asks me point blank like a little brat how much she's going to get. I'd turn it around on her psychologically, I. E. Is that the only reason she showed up for dinner? I'm interested in real SBs, ones who have some genuine chemistry so if that's all she showed up for there's the door. And yes your own will to walk away must be stronger than the propensity of your smaller head to dig into your wallet. Just basic salesman's self-discipline.

However I'd say once it gets to that point if I have to start playing psychological games with her, I have probably failed at my game somewhere higher up in the process. Game is not something you pull out a canned script in the eleventh hour for in order to pull off a quick win.

The goal of game is to make sure she's having such a good time from the initial meeting hug that she's not about to fuck things up by asking about money.

Don't get me wrong I run into this type of girl all the time. I just try to weed them out early in the process, long before it gets to M&G.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2573331]There is no canned script that would cover where I would take the conversation in every situation. Every social interaction is different, and how those interactions unfold starts with the very first e-mail or message. I don't send out form letters or work in bulk or batches.

So, short version of the story something like you describe has only happened once to me and it ended up with no trip to the FC.

But let's say a girl who I thought was a good POT ends up getting as far as the dinner table and asks me point blank like a little brat how much she's going to get. I'd turn it around on her psychologically, I. E. Is that the only reason she showed up for dinner? I'm interested in real SBs, ones who have some genuine chemistry so if that's all she showed up for there's the door. And yes your own will to walk away must be stronger than the propensity of your smaller head to dig into your wallet. Just basic salesman's self-discipline.

However I'd say once it gets to that point if I have to start playing psychological games with her, I have probably failed at my game somewhere higher up in the process. Game is not something you pull out a canned script in the eleventh hour for in order to pull off a quick win.

The goal of game is to make sure she's having such a good time from the initial meeting hug that she's not about to fuck things up by asking about money.

Don't get me wrong I run into this type of girl all the time. I just try to weed them out early in the process, long before it gets to M&G.[/QUOTE]One thing for sure. We are on opposite ends of the "how to play the game" spectrum. Although the end results may be the same. In my wildest dreams I can't imagine putting myself in any situation where an M&G couldn't lead straight to the FC due to a delay in a full understanding about everything possible prior to meeting anyone. But I do prefer the online and txt screening process. The in person meeting is just a quick once over to confirm what what was already needed to be known by both parties to proceed without delay. or dinner.

But is that 100% the way to go? Nothing ever is.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2573331]There is no canned script that would cover where I would take the conversation in every situation. Every social interaction is different, and how those interactions unfold starts with the very first e-mail or message. I don't send out form letters or work in bulk or batches.

So, short version of the story something like you describe has only happened once to me and it ended up with no trip to the FC.

But let's say a girl who I thought was a good POT ends up getting as far as the dinner table and asks me point blank like a little brat how much she's going to get. I'd turn it around on her psychologically, I. E. Is that the only reason she showed up for dinner? I'm interested in real SBs, ones who have some genuine chemistry so if that's all she showed up for there's the door. And yes your own will to walk away must be stronger than the propensity of your smaller head to dig into your wallet. Just basic salesman's self-discipline.

However I'd say once it gets to that point if I have to start playing psychological games with her, I have probably failed at my game somewhere higher up in the process. Game is not something you pull out a canned script in the eleventh hour for in order to pull off a quick win.

The goal of game is to make sure she's having such a good time from the initial meeting hug that she's not about to fuck things up by asking about money.

Don't get me wrong I run into this type of girl all the time. I just try to weed them out early in the process, long before it gets to M&G.[/QUOTE]Understood. I guess my question was much simpler than that. I should have asked, would you ever give her a price or no? I'm guessing not.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2573379]One thing for sure. We are on opposite ends of the "how to play the game" spectrum. Although the end results may be the same. In my wildest dreams I can't imagine putting myself in any situation where an M&G couldn't lead straight to the FC due to a delay in a full understanding about everything possible prior to meeting anyone. But I do prefer the online and txt screening process. The in person meeting is just a quick once over to confirm what what was already needed to be known by both parties to proceed without delay. or dinner.

But is that 100% the way to go? Nothing ever is.[/QUOTE]Our methodologies are very different. You've streamlined your methods to maximize how often you get laid and to work a single, highly populated area where you are able to bring girls to your place, etc. As a way to satisfy ongoing sexual needs. My daily sexual needs are met well enough, so my methods are designed to maximize the amount of pussy I can get in a relatively short time window with which I am able to play, away from home and in multiple cities. So, I literally start lining them up weeks in advance and I've had ample time to run the game on them during the preparation stage.

No doubt I would do things differently if I were a full-time SD. However I wouldn't make offers up front, I would still gift them after the fact. I also would not let them come live in my place even if I didn't have a GF.

Is the way I do things going to end up in dramatically different results than you get? Absolutely it would -- for one thing far less volume I'm sure. I like banging babies who would fuck me with or without money. Obviously that's not going to be every POT who sends me a note on a website, it ends up being a relatively small percentage of the total profiles in every given city. But I want quality over quantity. My sexual needs are met well enough day to day.

[QUOTE=DogSun;2573405]Understood. I guess my question was much simpler than that. I should have asked, would you ever give her a price or no? I'm guessing not.[/QUOTE]I have done that with strippers (varying levels of success there, but the money game is part of the fun of takeout hunting). But with SBs? Well I'd say as policy no, because if I need that to get her in the bed then something else has gone wrong and I feel like I would just be getting a lousy minimalist fuck. Honestly if she asked directly like you said then absolutely no, she would not get a response from me with an offer. If she were much more tactful about it, like let's say she starts talking about a two hundred dollar phone bill or something I might say something like "don't worry, tomorrow morning after I take you home you won't be worrying about your phone bill anymore".

Does that make sense? In other words I don't cave to snot nosed brat behavior, and hopefully I catch it long before I meet her in person -- there's no way caving in will result in good things. I have known some that will talk about what prior SDs used to give them, like maybe they say some ridiculous GPS amount they used to get for a travel weekend, and then maybe I say something like "well we won't be traveling together" to let her know that her GPS amount doesn't fly with me and that she should be looking at life one night at a time with me.

If I let off a vibe like I'm desperate for pussy, it's going to work to my disadvantage. I already know ahead of time that whatever they might be expecting is not close to what I will actually gift them, so how can it possibly benefit me to talk about it early on? It's better for me to try to get them genuinely interested in fucking, operate on their curiosity level, and get them to the point where they are not focusing on an amount.

That's part of my whole tactic, taking their mind off the money, therefore discussing money is contradictory.

Back to strippers -- that's different. These girls already have a fun job with nice income so the money discussion is usually a necessary part of the equation. Strippers and SBs are different though and require a different approach.

[QUOTE=DogSun;2573187]JL, how have / would you handle girls who, during the M&G but before heading to the FC, ask how much sugar they are going to get?[/QUOTE]I know the other guys operate differently, so this is yet another perspective. But for me, if we have not discussed a massage fee or poetry reading fee up front, then I see no need to waste time with a M&G meeting. If expectations are not set in advance, then a M&G is a crap shoot.

Look, negotiating a rate face-to-face is dangerous and silly. When the plumbers come to work in my neighborhood, they want $100/ hr for labor. A mile away in the row home area they charge $50/ hr labor. So any girl who is smart is going to wait for a M&G, size up one's ability to pay and level of desperation and then use that to extract as high a level of cash as she can from you. You want to operate like that? I don't.

Plus, as others have pointed out. Say you are a shrewd negotiator and after a half hour of tough negotiations you get her to agree to your price. You think a date with her is going to be wild & uninhibited? Or is she thinking in the back of her mind, "Well I invested this much time and effort in things already, might as well get what I can out of it, instead of going home empty-handed. " Not the basis of her relaxing & putting her best efforts in, nor repeat business.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2573433]Look, negotiating a rate face-to-face is dangerous and silly. When the plumbers come to work in my neighborhood, they want $100/ hr for labor. A mile away in the row home area they charge $50/ hr labor. So any girl who is smart is going to wait for a M&G, size up one's ability to pay and level of desperation and then use that to extract as high a level of cash as she can from you. You want to operate like that? I don't.[/QUOTE]But it works both ways. If I were going to negotiate a rate up front, I'd rather do it in person after I've had an opportunity to run the game a bit and try to win some points for chemistry.

Because before that happens, she is going to throw out a "worst case scenario" amount based on your photos which for all she knows could be fake (multiple SBs have told me that fake pics have been a big problem for them in the past).

A plumber can quote you an hourly rate because they don't care what you look like or smell like, they're going to be plumbing turds from toilets one way or another. With an SB if you have any game at all you have an opportunity to charm her a bit and hopefully take her mind off money completely, or at least get it lowered in priority in her mind.

Had very fun and MILFy nooner today with a girl that likes foot action.

[URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?6028-Photography-getting-her-to-pose[/URL]

If you are into feet. This girls feet are in the 9+ quality range.

The usual $ was way more than enough for her to let loose.

She is a real sweetheart. I have seen her maybe twice a year for 4 years now.

JL. You're conflating culture with race. Being white isn't a culture any more than being Asian, AA, or Latina. A girl of hatian descent will be culturally different than one who grew up in Ethiopa.

Generalizing about someone based on their cultural background can provide info as a starting point because it has a basis. Generaling about someone based on race provides little to no information (unless you're generalizing about physical traits. I. e. Asians tend to have straight black hair).

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2573050]But do you realize that by pointing out that Korean girls are different than Thai girls -- you've just made a generalization of sorts? The fact that you noticed that there is a cultural difference between women from the two countries and that they are both different than white girls is in itself saying that there is a pattern of behavioral difference there. My earlier comments were not to say all Asians or Latinas do this or that, it was just to point out that once you've dated literally countless numbers of each demographic (and I mean dated, not paid for sex) you start to notice patterns that emerge more often in one demographic than another.

Yes I could absolutely identify traits that are more likely to appear in white, Latina or Asian girls assuming they have some fairly recent cultural tie to their country of origin. If they were adopted shortly after birth and grew up completely in the USA they are not going to have much cultural influence from another country, so in a case of "extreme Americanization" it is all bets off.

My experience with AA is much less vast -- I can discuss patterns I've noticed there but it's working from a much smaller sample size and I'm sure my findings would be less accurate than if you talked to someone who specializes in that demographic like HWG does.

But yes, patterns can be recognized and generalizations can be made. Asians and Latinas generalize about their own culture because they are in touch with their own people and know what to expect. Sometimes you even hear them say "I hate _ (insert this or that" about their own culture, and they will highlight something behavioral that occurs frequently among folks from their country that is different from Americans. Those differences form the basis of the generalizations.[/QUOTE]

Any thoughts on a POT that is looking to meet without asking for a pic?