Vietnamese Bars

[QUOTE=Kapalua]Even if there's been an adverse financial impact on bars, that should be weighed against the substantial medical harms and costs of carcinogenic secondhand smoke. Smokers who smoke inside bars that serve the general public are illegally polluting indoor air with poisonous chemicals that all non-smoking customers and employees must breathe. Smokers can smoke in their own homes, their own vehicles, or outside, but they have no right to spread poisonous chemicals in enclosed areas where there are any non-smoking customers or employees.[/QUOTE]

It should be up to the owner. It's their bar. It's like if nudity offends you, don't go to strip bars. Anyhow, we all need to get along and this topic is getting old again. I have to agree with member 69, lets move on to something else because nobodies going change their minds over it.

[QUOTE=Kapalua]Even if there's been an adverse financial impact on bars, that should be weighed against the substantial medical harms and costs of carcinogenic secondhand smoke. Smokers who smoke inside bars that serve the general public are illegally polluting indoor air with poisonous chemicals that all non-smoking customers and employees must breathe. Smokers can smoke in their own homes, their own vehicles, or outside, but they have no right to spread poisonous chemicals in enclosed areas where there are any non-smoking customers or employees.[/QUOTE]
I'm with you Kap!

Actually, when the law was passed, it wasn't for the health of the customers, but for the workers. Something to do with equal, non-health threatening, employment opportunities for all.

[QUOTE=Night Colors]Off of "You Tube" these are the numbers;

"Honolulu gross liquor sales from late night bars;
2003 = $34.1 million
2004 = $34.8 million
2005 = $35.1 million
2006 = $36.4 million
2007 = $29.27 million post ban -20% RAW"

and member69 I respect your right not to smoke but would you push a girl that came to your home and made love to you outside in the rain to have a smoke after sex? I want to respect you but the law will not let me.

We get rained on and it sucks. We get no patio area where we can still drink and hang out - no nothing. It just sucks! I have no choice but to smoke inside or get the treated like a dog.[/QUOTE]Be interested to see the numbers by months.

There has been an increase in personal bankruptcies and a slowing of the economy as a whole, beginning mid/late 06. That accounts for far more than the smoking ban. Look at this christmas season, with people saying they spent less than last year. Gas bills must be taking toll on suv and heavy vehicle drivers, with no end in sight. There is simply less disposable income out there. The numbers don't lie, but the figures can be manipulated.

And I take my business elsewhere if the smoking ban is not enforced.

[QUOTE=Night Colors]

Anyhow, we all need to get along and this topic is getting old again. [/QUOTE]
We can all "get along" on the forum and still respectfully express our viewpoints. It's nothing personal -- I even have some friends who are smokers.

[QUOTE=Night Colors]

It should be up to the owner. It's their bar. [/QUOTE]
When a bar is licensed to serve the general public, the bar is subject to laws that protect non-smoking customers and employees from poisonous chemicals. If I went into a bar and put poisonous chemicals such as arsenic, lead and tar into the drinks and food of smokers, I would very likely get punched in the face. Yet some smokers seem to think that they should be able to pollute the air that non-smoking customers and employees must breathe with the same poisonous chemicals and many others. As the Surgeon General's comprehensive 2006 report on secondhand tobacco smoke emphasizes, it is "a known human carcinogen (cancer-causing agent)," and can result in both "lung cancer and coronary heart disease in nonsmoking adults."

Here it is: [url]http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/secondhandsmoke[/url]

[QUOTE=Night Colors]

It's like if nudity offends you, don't go to strip bars. [/QUOTE]
First, a stripper's nudity isn't going to kill people. Second, even in a strip bar, a customer simply doesn't have to look at the stripper if he doesn't want to do so. However, in a bar with air polluted by poisonous smoke, non-smoking customers can't simply stop breathing.

[QUOTE=Pursuer]Be interested to see the numbers by months.

There has been an increase in personal bankruptcies and a slowing of the economy as a whole, beginning mid/late 06. That accounts for far more than the smoking ban. Look at this christmas season, with people saying they spent less than last year. Gas bills must be taking toll on suv and heavy vehicle drivers, with no end in sight. There is simply less disposable income out there. The numbers don't lie, but the figures can be manipulated.

And I take my business elsewhere if the smoking ban is not enforced.[/QUOTE]

This is from the star bulletin. It may explain why a few bars feel compelled to let people. I spoke with him before and he said the big hit happened overnight with the ban. No hostess bars or strip clubs are openly public like this guy.

"....In the meantime, Pigskins bar owner Lance Gomes said he owns a smoking bar again. He has posted 'no smoking' signs inside and outside and tells customers that smoking inside is illegal, in accordance with the law.

In the first three months after the smoking ban went into effect, Gomes said he tried to enforce it himself.

'I told people they had to smoke outside,' Gomes said. 'People were pissed. I had two people walk out on tabs. People were rained on outside. I lost 50 percent of my business. After that, I said I am going to be a smoking bar again and from that day, I was.'

Since then, Gomes said his business went up 30 percent, but is still down about 20 percent from pre-ban days. ...."

That's not to say that our economic climate has no effect, but this man is frank about what the elephant in the room was. He also said in print that all of his employees smoke.

Based on the comments on the thread and those I'm hearing and seeing at the bars, it seems clear that the worst hit bars caved in to their high percentage smoking clientele and the less effected ones strictly enforced the ban. This appeares to be having the effect of people that loath smoking fleeing to smoke free venues and those that demand it taking flight to smoking speakeasies. For those that it is no big deal, they dig both. If you walk in Pigskins now, 3/4 or more of his customers are smoking. He really had no choice but to let this happen.

[QUOTE=Pursuer]Be interested to see the numbers by months.

There has been an increase in personal bankruptcies and a slowing of the economy as a whole, beginning mid/late 06. That accounts for far more than the smoking ban. Look at this christmas season, with people saying they spent less than last year. Gas bills must be taking toll on suv and heavy vehicle drivers, with no end in sight. There is simply less disposable income out there. The numbers don't lie, but the figures can be manipulated.

And I take my business elsewhere if the smoking ban is not enforced.[/QUOTE]

Good, leave. I don't want guys like you sitting next to me at the bar while I smoke. To defeat this law, all the restaurant owners and bar owners have to do is unite and not enforce it. If the workers don't want to work around smoke, fire them and hire others.

[QUOTE=Thumperforq]To defeat this law, all the restaurant owners and bar owners have to do is unite and not enforce it. If the workers don't want to work around smoke, fire them and hire others.[/QUOTE]
Well, if that is done, then the bar owner could probably expect law suits from terminated employees, and for the LC, or whomever enforces it, to shut them down. You can skirt the law to some extent, but I think to openly and blatantly do it is asking for trouble.

[QUOTE=Night Colors]She does have a gambling problem and so does gay ben. Some folks say that her being around him makes her problem worse. I'm surprised she didn't go to By Nite, the staff there was highly tolerent of gambling and openly gambled right on the bar. I'm also surprised the LC didn't see them doing that, it's totally illegal, not that I care because I'm not a gambler and I'm not a rat. It doesn't matter now to post this online since By Nite is no more. With Loni back in control those days are over, she won't allow it. Loni wants some of the younger girls to come back since she only has old timers now however.

One good thing they did was they banned that old J.C. dude. He was loud, rude, and insulting both to customers and the girls and is banned from almost every other bar in Honolulu.[/QUOTE]Actually from what I heard, michelle left for maui because of her large gambling debts. Wouldn't have helped by just working at by nite, as you said, with ben and the others there it would have just made it worse so she finally got enough sense to leave the island.

I saw her a few weeks ago. She is one of the managers at the viet bar there, saigon nites or something. She is doing well, catching up with her debts. Although there isn't much to do there and so many mauians gamble (I'm from maui and gambling was a big thing there) she doesn't gamble at all. She does visit honolulu once and a while, may be here for the holidays already. Yeah, you're right, she is thai, I forgot.

Btw, some nice viet girls working at her place. No play though. But they do seem very busy with customers.

Night colors, thanks for not continuing the flaming, I know we both have differences on the smoking issue and you're right, everyone has their own opinions already formed whether they like smoking or not and nothing anyone says will change their minds. Too bad they can't have seperate areas for smokers but I guess the "in" thing nowadays is to push for the smoke free environment. If by nite had a better ventillation system where the smoke wasn't that bad I may have visited more but I was gagging whenever I stepped through the door so had to stop visiting the place.

Happy new year!

[QUOTE=Hypo Luxa]Well, if that is done, then the bar owner could probably expect law suits from terminated employees, and for the LC, or whomever enforces it, to shut them down. You can skirt the law to some extent, but I think to openly and blatantly do it is asking for trouble.[/QUOTE]

Several of the sports bars have already done this; I don't see any lawsuits or LC forcing them to shutdown. By Nite did this; no enforcement or shutdown. It's time to end the Nannystate laws.

[QUOTE=Hypo Luxa]Well, if that is done, then the bar owner could probably expect law suits from terminated employees, and for the LC, or whomever enforces it, to shut them down. You can skirt the law to some extent, but I think to openly and blatantly do it is asking for trouble.[/QUOTE]I think we had enough of this smoking issue. Can we please move on... issue is DEAD!!

Out at Sky tonight to pick up a young vixen to celebrate my new years. There are a few that are cute and that I'd like to play with (Sara, Abby and Cat. Cat is on the mainland?)

I hope the girls want to work for their money tonight, especially Abby. I read about her, but I've been sitting with her for a couple months. I've been taking her to lunch and dinners and we talk on the phone. We shop and we kiss when she feels like it. She loves to play.

She's the hottest looking and sexiest bar girl. I saw her at the car show with Lyna and the girls. All the bar girls were beautiful. Abby says she's single but with me she feels different so she says. I hope you all have happy endings tonight.

[QUOTE=Thumperforq]Good, leave. I don't want guys like you sitting next to me at the bar while I smoke. To defeat this law, all the restaurant owners and bar owners have to do is unite and not enforce it. If the workers don't want to work around smoke, fire them and hire others.[/QUOTE]Why don't you want me at the bar while you smoke? Could it be that you know second hand smoke causes all kinds of health problems? How thoughtful of you. :D

[QUOTE=Member 69]Actually from what I heard, michelle left for maui because of her large gambling debts. Wouldn't have helped by just working at by nite, as you said, with ben and the others there it would have just made it worse so she finally got enough sense to leave the island.

I saw her a few weeks ago. She is one of the managers at the viet bar there, saigon nites or something. She is doing well, catching up with her debts. Although there isn't much to do there and so many mauians gamble (I'm from maui and gambling was a big thing there) she doesn't gamble at all. She does visit honolulu once and a while, may be here for the holidays already. Yeah, you're right, she is thai, I forgot.

Happy new year![/QUOTE]

You are correct about Michelle needing to leave. I'm glad she tryed to take stock of the problem, even if it ment running away again. By Nite wouldn't have helped her quit gambling anymore than it would have helped me quit smoking, not that I want to. I do miss her company at the bar, however.

Time to turn this computer off for now and go hang out with some girls and blow some fireworks off. Cheers :)

I haven't been out and about for a few months and was wondering if Que(sp?) was still around and working at a bar. She was pretty fun to sit with and go into the room with. Now that I think of it, I may have last seen her over a year ago. I guess I need to get out more.

[QUOTE=Matisse]I haven't been out and about for a few months and was wondering if Que(sp?) was still around and working at a bar. She was pretty fun to sit with and go into the room with. Now that I think of it, I may have last seen her over a year ago. I guess I need to get out more.[/QUOTE]

Q is no longer working at Sky Lounge; she was asked to leave by Jackie and Lyna because of her problems with substance abuse.

Does anyone have any experience with Avon from Sandy and Jen?

She is older 40 or so, viet, but looks local, tanned and with really toned legs and butt, long reddish tan curly hair. No panties, so got lots of touching in the booth. Ofcourse she suggested the karaoke room, but knowing it is expensive, I quit after buying her 3 drinks. She did give me her digits. Does anyone know if she delivers in the room, or does it just end up as a much more expensive tease?

If you prefer PM me.