Massage Parlor Reports

[QUOTE=A1287;5487421]I ended up seeing ava / ayanna, booked her through her IG. Ended up doing nuru for an hour, wasn't really worth it in my opinion. Not much of a massage and she wasn't really talkative at all during the session. 65 to the house and I tipped for $. She didn't ask for a specific amount when I tipped her.[/QUOTE]Most nuru girls that are any good ask for at least 140 tip. Havana is 65 house and 140 to the girl. They're all the same, no negotiating, and almost all of the girls there are hot and have nice personalities. If you got a girl completely nude and only paid 165 out the door you got a screaming deal. At any AMP you'll pay 40 house + 60 for a HJ and you usually don't get the girl naked for that much and usually have limited roaming ability, and that's usually with a so-so looking and quite often older provider.

[QUOTE=TimDrake;5486669]OH wow, they have showers there now?[/QUOTE]Just came out with Rosie same lie LOL funeral blah blah blah.

She is cute. A solid 7-8 for massage parlor standards.

She would be a 4-5 for Asian booker. BBBJ, BBFS cip.

Her pussy smelled which is a turn off. But her tits, and her body.

She is nice looking for anyone who can't get into a booker.

I was curious so I deposited a load in her. She told me.

Anytime I want she available. But I rather keep it with the bookers better.

Talent. This only if you can't get with a booker I recommend her.

[QUOTE=TimDrake;5486669]OH wow, they have showers there now?[/QUOTE]Yes they do have a shower. Funny story, when we both went into the restroom, right as she turn on the lights there was a giant roach on the floor! She got freaked out and almost kneed me in the balls. I had to wack it with a towel until it wasn't moving haha.

[QUOTE=RTDriver;5485243]A while back I had a dream about Apples.

My New Moon Apple is an all around attractive Asian chick. * Long black hair. No tattoos that I can remember. Probably in her 30's but could pass for late 20's. * Cute face. * Cute smile. * Her face is above average. * Even if she isn't your type, I don't imagine anyone describing her as ugly. *.


Looks 7.

Attitude 9.

Service 9.

Repeat yes.

40 house 140 tip for CFS for hhr.

[/QUOTE]Overall, an accurate post. Been to this chain of MP's before and I wasn't so turned on. 40+140 for a non-GFE CBJ and cfs wasn't compelling me to return. Yes, it was with a younger prettier provider. But the negatives outweighed the those positives. CBJ, CFS, hard implants, non-GFE. If this place was 40+100, I'd probably drop by once every couple of months.

What's the deal with all the asterisks? Are we trying to write a haiku?

I went to LL near Air recently. Had to wait a few minutes (bummer, because the lady who took my money was young & pretty) and my provider came from outside. I think she's usually at Air and her name is Sophia, 26 yrs young and also pretty! Jackpot!

The massage was among the best I had for quite a while. She is strong even though she's so tiny and she really got some knots out of my back. No tease, but with this massage I would have been happy even without a HE. HE was decent, she follows directions. Cute gal, will visit again!

Fun anecdote: I drove out of the parking lot right behind her. She must have thought I'm following her LOL. She stopped at the strip with Le Palace and walked there, but couldn't see if she went in.

Called and made a 90 minute appointment with Yoyo.

Good massage, good teasing and then good HE. After the HE, she continued to massage me for the rest of the time.

It was dark, but she was decent looking. Let me grab under her shirt, natural Bs. Pulled her pants down and let me grab her ass. Didn't let me play with her kitty.

6 for the 90 min massage and another. 6 for tip. $1. 2 total for 90 minutes. Great value if you want a good quality massage, not as strong as Nicole from LP or Krystal though.

[QUOTE=Eddy68;5487943]Just came out with Rosie same lie LOL funeral blah blah blah.

She is cute. A solid 7-8 for massage parlor standards.

She would be a 4-5 for Asian booker. BBBJ, BBFS cip.

Her pussy smelled which is a turn off. But her tits, and her body.

She is nice looking for anyone who can't get into a booker.

I was curious so I deposited a load in her. She told me.

Anytime I want she available. But I rather keep it with the bookers better.

Talent. This only if you can't get with a booker I recommend her.[/QUOTE]What was the damage?

Hey all new to oc and Monger time is limited so need to be selective. Tried ckb a few times and Havana. Looking for FS or HJ with a looker no grandmas. Looks like wellness, le palace, new moon and sh are best bets? Any others? Which would you recommend first thanks!

[QUOTE=Dohma22;5489420]Hey all new to oc and Monger time is limited so need to be selective. Tried ckb a few times and Havana. Looking for FS or HJ with a looker no grandmas. Looks like wellness, le palace, new moon and sh are best bets? Any others? Which would you recommend first thanks![/QUOTE]Try them out an report back!!

[QUOTE=Bronco;5487120]Sorry late post. Saw Andy again at Bamboo Thursday. Best massage with the best HJ finish. Lots of ball play and slow stroking. No rushing at all. Don't touch her and she will take her time stroking. My ATF for HJ.[/QUOTE]Andy has the best tease, but for HJ, Ana at Bamboo is better imo.

[QUOTE=OCRanger;5489800]Andy has the best tease, but for HJ, Ana at Bamboo is better imo.[/QUOTE]Kind of a toss up for the better HJ, Ana or Andy. Andy does a great slow stroke, keeping you right on the edge for a good 10 minutes. But she's not fond of being groped. Not that big of a deal though, as although I really do enjoy fucking a girl with A cups, they aren't much to squeeze. Now Ana does allow some UTC roaming, but again with the A cups. The real difference with her though is that she'll go three knuckles deep on the prostate if you let her. Really can't lose either way, IMO.

[QUOTE=BenderOver;5488999]Overall, an accurate post. Been to this chain of MP's before and I wasn't so turned on. 40+140 for a non-GFE CBJ and cfs wasn't compelling me to return. Yes, it was with a younger prettier provider. But the negatives outweighed the those positives. CBJ, CFS, hard implants, non-GFE. If this place was 40+100, I'd probably drop by once every couple of months.

What's the deal with all the asterisks? Are we trying to write a haiku?[/QUOTE]Yeah sorry about the asterisks. I write these reports in Samsung notes and when I copy and paste over to the usasexguide. Nl website all the asterisks get added for some reason.

I will try to delete them before hitting the upload button.

BTW I felt compelled to visit Eco Apple after I wrote that report on New Moon Apple. Will try to post my Eco Apple report this weekend so the info is timely and actionable.

[QUOTE=VeryInterest;5489302]What was the damage?[/QUOTE]The damage was 2 notes, . 50 entrance.

[QUOTE=Kevin80;5485013]Well she gave me FS but said definitely no BJ, FIV and DATY. Haha just kidding, dang I've got to see Nicole one day.[/QUOTE]Just leaving LP. Nicole doesn't work here anymore and according to the 3 girls they tried to pass me to, she hasn't worked here in some time.

Are all these posts about Nicole / lp fake?

[QUOTE=HeartlessJay;5490002]Kind of a toss up for the better HJ, Ana or Andy. Andy does a great slow stroke, keeping you right on the edge for a good 10 minutes. But she's not fond of being groped. Not that big of a deal though, as although I really do enjoy fucking a girl with A cups, they aren't much to squeeze. Now Ana does allow some UTC roaming, but again with the A cups. The real difference with her though is that she'll go three knuckles deep on the prostate if you let her. Really can't lose either way, IMO.[/QUOTE]I didn't know Ana offered the prostate massage there, anyone else there offers it besides Linda?

[QUOTE=Eddy68;5490234]The damage was 2 notes, . 50 entrance.[/QUOTE]So 250 all in?

[QUOTE=HeartlessJay;5490002]Kind of a toss up for the better HJ, Ana or Andy. Andy does a great slow stroke, keeping you right on the edge for a good 10 minutes. But she's not fond of being groped. Not that big of a deal though, as although I really do enjoy fucking a girl with A cups, they aren't much to squeeze. Now Ana does allow some UTC roaming, but again with the A cups. The real difference with her though is that she'll go three knuckles deep on the prostate if you let her. Really can't lose either way, IMO.[/QUOTE]I wonder if it YMMV. I have seen andy numerous times, and every time, I lift up her shirt or bra and she just giggles. I haven't got prostate from Anna and Andy yet, only Jessica and Linda.

[QUOTE=NoClue02;5490984]I wonder if it YMMV. I have seen andy numerous times, and every time, I lift up her shirt or bra and she just giggles. I haven't got prostate from Anna and Andy yet, only Jessica and Linda.[/QUOTE]Andy allowed boob touching and she does good prostate but Anna sit by your right knee area, too far for me to reach and touch anything. YMMV.

Was pressed for time so couldn't check out the short list of recommended places in Westminster / gg so looked up a place close to where I needed to be after. Found a wellness center in Santa Ana but on the map looked more like Irvine. There's been a few Q's about that place here but no intel so decided to roll the dice cause for me that's part of the fun. Drove to the location and felt nervous cause it's in an office park area and borders Irvine and generally I wouldn't want to do anything around Irvine but what the hell address was Santa Ana so ipd isn't watching right?

Parked at the location which was an office park not strip mall. Red flag. Also across their door is a health clinic and there was a guy in scrubs working out of his trunk and another car with a family. Both parked in front of the entrance. My guess is he was covid testing them? No idea. Red flag. Oh well let's roll the dice.

Walked towards the door and of course the guy in scrubs walks out of the adjacent building and we make eye contact. I have to assume he thought I was entering the clinic. Nope! Turn 180 and front door was open. Mamasan greeted and asked if I been here before and I said yes. She asked who I saw I said don't remember I was drunk. Then she said we don't open late to which I responded I day drink!

Asked if I could choose she said no but everyone is pretty. Get to the room paid. 5 for hh. In walks the provider with a mask wearing skimpy dress. Body looked great and from what I could tell she was maybe early to mid 30's but mask never came off. She's a Kgirl and said also works in Ktown la.

Massage was light touch which thankfully didn't take long til lots of finger tip teasing. Some light grabbing of the boys. Flipped. No negotiating at all. Pulled top down and bottom of skirt up. No panties. Was allowed to roam and finger no hard rejections just minor body position adjustments. Then to my surprise she relocates to end of the table and goes to town on the boys and chode. Then of course like a ninja slips on the hat with her mouth and CBJ. I was delighted. Body was great. Manmades but there was a lot of meat in there so felt natural. She let me play with the *fish. So delighted that finito was around the corner. Popped and thanked her with 1. She didn't even count.

Her name was Miki or Kiki. Told mamasan to remember me next time and she said of course and hugged me. Told me Latinas are there on the weekend but weekdays it's Kgirls.

Will return as found the quality for the $ was spot on it's just the location still makes me uncomfortable vs a seedy strip mall. Search for a wellness center in Santa Ana in Garry and you'll find it. There's ads. Have fun be safe.

[QUOTE=NoClue02;5490984]I wonder if it YMMV. I have seen andy numerous times, and every time, I lift up her shirt or bra and she just giggles. I haven't got prostate from Anna and Andy yet, only Jessica and Linda.[/QUOTE]It definitely is YMMV. I can lift up her top and kiss her neck etc. Key was to push a little further on subsequent trips. Haven't been able to get her pants undone or reach inside so I stopped going to her though.

Saw Yuki at Air Body. The reports are somewhat accurate but I didn't expect to be gimped in time by so much. Paid. 4 believing it was for the hour. I'm pretty sure it didn't even last 30 minutes, I was waiting for a good 10 minutes waiting for more massage but nope. No massage at all, just some pushing I guess. Though the teasing is nice. And it was an HE / BBBJ combo finish for. 8. I'd still prefer Nicole for the same price. At least the massage is well worth it plus won't be cut in time. I believe someone said she's not working there anymore, but she said she had availability last Friday. Its possible that they're just trying to get you in the door since Nicole is so busy.

[QUOTE=Dohma22;5491102]
Asked if I could choose she said no but everyone is pretty. Get to the room paid. 5 for hh. In walks the provider with a mask wearing skimpy dress. Body looked great and from what I could tell she was maybe early to mid 30's but mask never came off. She's a Kgirl and said also works in Ktown la.

Massage was light touch which thankfully didn't take long til lots of finger tip teasing. Some light grabbing of the boys. Flipped. No negotiating at all. Pulled top down and bottom of skirt up. No panties. Was allowed to roam and finger no hard rejections just minor body position adjustments. Then to my surprise she relocates to end of the table and goes to town on the boys and chode. Then of course like a ninja slips on the hat with her mouth and CBJ. I was delighted. Body was great. Manmades but there was a lot of meat in there so felt natural. She let me play with the *fish. So delighted that finito was around the corner. Popped and thanked her with 1. She didn't even count.

Her name was Miki or Kiki. Told mamasan to remember me next time and she said of course and hugged me. Told me Latinas are there on the weekend but weekdays it's Kgirls.

Will return as found the quality for the $ was spot on it's just the location still makes me uncomfortable vs a seedy strip mall. Search for a wellness center in Santa Ana in Garry and you'll find it. There's ads. Have fun be safe.[/QUOTE]For 1. You could have cfs here. Did she had a slim body type?

[QUOTE=OCRanger;5491011]Andy allowed boob touching and she does good prostate but Anna sit by your right knee area, too far for me to reach and touch anything. YMMV.[/QUOTE]Anna did the same with me, but just grab her hand and pull toward you, she will sit right by your tummy and you can reach wherever you want. Once you initiate that, the next time visit she will sit closer to you.

Andy never give me any hint of prostate, maybe I'm too young? Linda and Jessica, as well as kiki at air body did it automatically and kiki did it damn good!

[QUOTE=RTDriver;5490019]Yeah sorry about the asterisks. I write these reports in Samsung notes and when I copy and paste over to the usasexguide. Nl website all the asterisks get added for some reason.

I will try to delete them before hitting the upload button.

BTW I felt compelled to visit Eco Apple after I wrote that report on New Moon Apple. Will try to post my Eco Apple report this weekend so the info is timely and actionable.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the intel. Got to pay it a visit.

[QUOTE=MikeSilero00;5490737]Just leaving LP. Nicole doesn't work here anymore and according to the 3 girls they tried to pass me to, she hasn't worked here in some time.

Are all these posts about Nicole / lp fake?[/QUOTE]Oh really, damn it. My fault for procrastinating, wish I had a chance to check out the infamous Nicole at least once.

[QUOTE=SixGen;5491354]For 1. You could have cfs here. Did she had a slim body type?[/QUOTE]Yep she did. And thank you I'll drop. 5 otw out next time.

[QUOTE=SixGen;5491354]For 1. You could have cfs here. Did she had a slim body type?[/QUOTE]Rate for cfs? I'm guessing 140 plus.

Someone dm me her body type? Looks? May visit will report.

[QUOTE=OCRanger;5493009]Rate for cfs? I'm guessing 140 plus.[/QUOTE]They won't tell you but that's what is expected.

[QUOTE=Kevin80;5492283]Oh really, damn it. My fault for procrastinating, wish I had a chance to check out the infamous Nicole at least once.[/QUOTE]Nicole is still works there, just seen her today. She's here everyday except Wednesday and Saturday.

Within the last few weeks I've gone to two locations that are comfortable and welcoming. The first spot I want to share about does not have a name or I might have missed it. It is on 17th st in Santa Ana. It is in between Lincoln and Grand in a beat up strip mall. I didn't bother asking the provider for her name, but I'd say she was in her early 40's nothing to brag about other than an average looking provider. Paid 40 for 30 minutes and 80 for CBJ.

Other place is EJ massage. I encourage you guys to try Carol or Karol nice tight body.

[QUOTE=VinnieJenkins;5493363]Nicole is still works there, just seen her today. She's here everyday except Wednesday and Saturday.[/QUOTE]My only explanation for this is there must be 2 LP, one has an extra l and the other doesn't. I went to the one without the extra l.

[QUOTE=Dohma22;5491102]Was pressed for time so couldn't check out the short list of recommended places in Westminster / gg so looked up a place close to where I needed to be after. Found a wellness center in Santa Ana but on the map looked more like Irvine. There's been a few Q's about that place here but no intel so decided to roll the dice cause for me that's part of the fun. Drove to the location and felt nervous cause it's in an office park area and borders Irvine and generally I wouldn't want to do anything around Irvine but what the hell address was Santa Ana so ipd isn't watching right?

Parked at the location which was an office park not strip mall. Red flag. Also across their door is a health clinic and there was a guy in scrubs working out of his trunk and another car with a family. Both parked in front of the entrance. My guess is he was covid testing them? No idea. Red flag. Oh well let's roll the dice.

Walked towards the door and of course the guy in scrubs walks out of the adjacent building and we make eye contact. I have to assume he thought I was entering the clinic. Nope! Turn 180 and front door was open. Mamasan greeted and asked if I been here before and I said yes. She asked who I saw I said don't remember I was drunk. Then she said we don't open late to which I responded I day drink!

Asked if I could choose she said no but everyone is pretty. Get to the room paid. 5 for hh. In walks the provider with a mask wearing skimpy dress. Body looked great and from what I could tell she was maybe early to mid 30's but mask never came off. She's a Kgirl and said also works in Ktown la.

Massage was light touch which thankfully didn't take long til lots of finger tip teasing. Some light grabbing of the boys. Flipped. No negotiating at all. Pulled top down and bottom of skirt up. No panties. Was allowed to roam and finger no hard rejections just minor body position adjustments. Then to my surprise she relocates to end of the table and goes to town on the boys and chode. Then of course like a ninja slips on the hat with her mouth and CBJ. I was delighted. Body was great. Manmades but there was a lot of meat in there so felt natural. She let me play with the *fish. So delighted that finito was around the corner. Popped and thanked her with 1. She didn't even count.

Her name was Miki or Kiki. Told mamasan to remember me next time and she said of course and hugged me. Told me Latinas are there on the weekend but weekdays it's Kgirls.

Will return as found the quality for the $ was spot on it's just the location still makes me uncomfortable vs a seedy strip mall. Search for a wellness center in Santa Ana in Garry and you'll find it. There's ads. Have fun be safe.[/QUOTE]I was reading this FR. The detail was good, but the name "wellness" was unfamiliar to me. I know from experience that Irvine used to have a lot of KAMPs located in business parks. I also know that SA is a city adjacent to Irvine. I go to RM, scroll and review all the MP names in SA. Two use "wellness" in their name; only one is in a business park adjacent to Irvine city limits; only one has a reported house fee of $50-"sunnywell".

I see a lot of "where is this place?" post. I don't know if these individuals don't know how to fish, or are just too lazy to fish. But for the newbies, the post above is a good example of how to figure it out yourself.

BTW. I have not been to "sunnywell" in over two decades, but the Sunnywell MMS once claimed to be affiliated with Monica (aka Skypark) -- but the experience was never like Skypark.

Has anyone gone to haven spa in Santa Ana? I seen it on rubmaps but it's like across the street from a police station so it looks sus, LOL any input would be appreciated.

Just a thought on using oblique references to shops. Three or four or ten years ago this forum was full of attempts to cleverly describe the MP's we were visiting. I guess it was an attempt to thwart LE. I was always of the opinion that we aren't any smarter than the average vice cop. If we could decipher it, so could they. Ads laid it between the lines, misspelled (sic) words, vague references. All for safety. Times have changed. Most ads are pretty direct. LE knows what's going on. IMO there's no reason to hide shop names now. Clever is good. Funny is good. But the "I had a dream" days are in the past. I was in a shop a while back that was visited by the police. Several uniformed officers entered the shop. On the way in one of them said hi to one of the ladies by name. As they left another asked if another girl still worked there. See you soon. I'm a dim bulb. Help an old guy out and tell us where you've been.

[QUOTE=Dohma22;5491102]Was pressed for time so couldn't check out the short list of recommended places in Westminster / gg so looked up a place close to where I needed to be after. Found a wellness center in Santa Ana but on the map looked more like Irvine. There's been a few Q's about that place here but no intel so decided to roll the dice cause for me that's part of the fun. Drove to the location and felt nervous cause it's in an office park area and borders Irvine and generally I wouldn't want to do anything around Irvine but what the hell address was Santa Ana so ipd isn't watching right?

Parked at the location which was an office park not strip mall. Red flag. Also across their door is a health clinic and there was a guy in scrubs working out of his trunk and another car with a family. Both parked in front of the entrance. My guess is he was covid testing them? No idea. Red flag. Oh well let's roll the dice.

Walked towards the door and of course the guy in scrubs walks out of the adjacent building and we make eye contact. I have to assume he thought I was entering the clinic. Nope! Turn 180 and front door was open. Mamasan greeted and asked if I been here before and I said yes. She asked who I saw I said don't remember I was drunk. Then she said we don't open late to which I responded I day drink!

Asked if I could choose she said no but everyone is pretty. Get to the room paid. 5 for hh. In walks the provider with a mask wearing skimpy dress. Body looked great and from what I could tell she was maybe early to mid 30's but mask never came off. She's a Kgirl and said also works in Ktown la..[/QUOTE]

Tried lucky massage the other day, trying to find new places. The lobby has signs saying "no sexual activity. Etc". Could be a good sign or a bad one. They also had lots of religious stuff like crosses and bible quotes on the walls. Got Tracy, I didn't get a good look at her at first because it was dark and she was wearing a mask. Anyhow $35 for an hour, she did a good back massage and starts playing with my ass. On the flip she massages a bit then gets down to business. Then she puts her finger up my ass while pulling me. This chick takes initiative, I was pleasantly surprised. Didn't really roam at all, she was flat and also old, so I kept my hands down. Anyhow, nice work on her behalf. It's cheap and she really put in the effort. Would recommend if it's the sort of thing your looking for. Tipped $50 for the good service and she was very happy.

[QUOTE=Mdsceg;5494151]Tried lucky massage the other day, trying to find new places. The lobby has signs saying "no sexual activity. Etc". Could be a good sign or a bad one. They also had lots of religious stuff like crosses and bible quotes on the walls. Got Tracy, I didn't get a good look at her at first because it was dark and she was wearing a mask. Anyhow $35 for an hour, she did a good back massage and starts playing with my ass. On the flip she massages a bit then gets down to business. Then she puts her finger up my ass while pulling me. This chick takes initiative, I was pleasantly surprised. Didn't really roam at all, she was flat and also old, so I kept my hands down. Anyhow, nice work on her behalf. It's cheap and she really put in the effort. Would recommend if it's the sort of thing your looking for. Tipped $50 for the good service and she was very happy.[/QUOTE]Which Lucky is this? There are 3 Lucky names in Westminster I believe and one Lucky Massage on Westminster Blvd but in Garden Grove.

[QUOTE=Budweisers13;5494020]Has anyone gone to haven spa in Santa Ana? I seen it on rubmaps but it's like across the street from a police station so it looks sus, LOL any input would be appreciated.[/QUOTE]Why is it that the guys with 1 or 2 posts are the ones who ask straight up for info. The way it should work is this, Mr Budweiser. Get on the massage table there at this Haven Spa and then write a report and tell us about your experience.

S H Health Center, Westminster.

Mia.

5'6" 130 lbs.

Late to mid 20-yrs.

Walk on back. Yup, but super painful. I've never complained about a massage being too hard. This is the first time.

No teasing.

Would only accept 60.

Amazing tits! Small D, soft but perky. Nice sized nipples.

Dressed rather conservative.

HJ was ok; if not a bit below okay.

40 to house; 60 to provider.

Looks 7/10. Tits 8. 5/10.

Massage 4/10.

HJ 3/10.

May repeat. I am a breast man, and these were nice!

[QUOTE=Mdsceg;5494151]Tried lucky massage the other day, trying to find new places. The lobby has signs saying "no sexual activity. Etc". Could be a good sign or a bad one. They also had lots of religious stuff like crosses and bible quotes on the walls. Got Tracy, I didn't get a good look at her at first because it was dark and she was wearing a mask. Anyhow $35 for an hour, she did a good back massage and starts playing with my ass. On the flip she massages a bit then gets down to business. Then she puts her finger up my ass while pulling me. This chick takes initiative, I was pleasantly surprised. Didn't really roam at all, she was flat and also old, so I kept my hands down. Anyhow, nice work on her behalf. It's cheap and she really put in the effort. Would recommend if it's the sort of thing your looking for. Tipped $50 for the good service and she was very happy.[/QUOTE]Over the years, things have changed at Lucky. 5 or 6 years back I used to go there for legit massage. And a good massage at that. No extras offered at all. All the religious paraphernalia on the shelves and signs in the rooms saying no sex were pretty much true. The place two doors down was just the opposite. No massage, just flip and jack hammer and out the door. Then I met a provider at Lucky that did some light teasing, brushing the boys now and then, and would allow self serve. Then all the providers started allowing self serve, working the sack but refusing to touch the pole. Think they knew they were losing business to the jack shack next door. Then a few years back the legit place bought out the jack shack and combined tactics. Haven't been to Lucky since covid, but I did go next door last month for a very disappointing experience, and wrote it up on this forum. Guess I should visit Lucky again for old time sake. Wonder if it's the same MMS.