Rants, Raves and Opinions AKA "The Octagon"

[QUOTE=RogerOver;3360822]Of course they are hookers. There's a financial transaction for pussy. Who's disputing that?[/QUOTE]The post I quoted, was BD responding to a guy sharing intel about Pro SB, potential rinsers, etc. Making distinctions among the girls he's contacted who are not what he would consider TRUE SB (guessing). I would guess that the only people who are entertained by BD and his stories must be guys who think he's doing this with girls who aren't SB pros. When he mentions money, it is almost always a trivial afterthought. The implication is clear: They aren't fucking him because of the money alone but because BD is such a skilled player.

Regarding hookers as a useful term: On some very simplified level, the first lady and the crackwhore on the street are "hookers". But I think that definition of the word has almost zero utility when defined this way. In reality, we can easily see that there's a spectrum. Everyone might quibble over where the lines are drawn, but it largely comes down to exclusivity and the nature of the transaction. How many dicks+money she chooses to take, vs money+dicks thrown her way.

Simplifying it broadly: 12-20 dicks a day, 8-10 dicks a day, 1-4 dicks a day, or 1 single solitary dick once or twice a week. Pretty big differences. Maybe you don't care. If so, then either you see any and all of them indiscriminately, or you see none of them. To do something else would indicate that you see those distinctions as well.

The Sugar guys probably operate under the assumption that there exists this specific kind of SB: The TRUE Sugar Baby. In theory, it's a girl who is exclusively taking money and dick from one guy. A financial transaction, true, but neither party is maximizing the utility of their pussy / money. She could make more money by fucking more dudes. He could get more variety and quantity of sex by looking elsewhere. Strictly, this doesn't make economic sense. This willing limitation is what, I believe, the SD wants.

It isn't just sex and sex isn't that simple. Pretending that it is would be ignoring reality, and most likely ignoring each of our personal experience. We've all probably been with a girl who depressed our dick into flaccidity upon experiencing evidence of the sad state of her life. Or who said "hurry up" and broke our stroke and ruined the session. Or even who just weren't that into it. Some guys can fuck a hole and cum. But this MUST not be the case for most guys, most of the time because the reports on action indicate otherwise. Guys here regularly make distinctions around this all the time. Clockwatcher, GFE, PSE, Rushed, Mechanical, etc. And Sugar threads have additional distinctions.

So while not disputed directly, pretending that all transaction-based sex is the same seems pointless.

[QUOTE=ProVid;3360999]I've always found pithy sayings which ignore nuance and context in favor of comforting absolutes to be the domain of folksy idiots, but you might have a point.

Guys like blowjobs, but sometimes they like pussy. So they absolutely don't like blowjobs. Makes sense.[/QUOTE]You're pretty much a dumb ass aren't you? All covered up in nuance and context. Quotes tend to exist because they stand the test of reality and time.

For instance, "[i]ProVid is a fairly smart guy [u][b]BUT[/b][/u] no one listens to him because he's never actually fucked a girl and likes to heave his bullshit on everyone."[/i]

See how that works?

[QUOTE=ProVid;3361042]The post I quoted, was BD responding to a guy sharing intel about Pro SB, potential rinsers, etc. Making distinctions among the girls he's contacted who are not what he would consider TRUE SB (guessing). I would guess that the only people who are entertained by BD and his stories must be guys who think he's doing this with girls who aren't SB pros. When he mentions money, it is almost always a trivial afterthought. The implication is clear: They aren't fucking him because of the money alone but because BD is such a skilled player.

Regarding hookers as a useful term: On some very simplified level, the first lady and the crackwhore on the street are "hookers". But I think that definition of the word has almost zero utility when defined this way. In reality, we can easily see that there's a spectrum. Everyone might quibble over where the lines are drawn, but it largely comes down to exclusivity and the nature of the transaction. How many dicks+money she chooses to take, vs money+dicks thrown her way.

Simplifying it broadly: 12-20 dicks a day, 8-10 dicks a day, 1-4 dicks a day, or 1 single solitary dick once or twice a week. Pretty big differences. Maybe you don't care. If so, then either you see any and all of them indiscriminately, or you see none of them. To do something else would indicate that you see those distinctions as well.

The Sugar guys probably operate under the assumption that there exists this specific kind of SB: The TRUE Sugar Baby. In theory, it's a girl who is exclusively taking money and dick from one guy. A financial transaction, true, but neither party is maximizing the utility of their pussy / money. She could make more money by fucking more dudes. He could get more variety and quantity of sex by looking elsewhere. Strictly, this doesn't make economic sense. This willing limitation is what, I believe, the SD wants.

It isn't just sex and sex isn't that simple. Pretending that it is would be ignoring reality, and most likely ignoring each of our personal experience. We've all probably been with a girl who depressed our dick into flaccidity upon experiencing evidence of the sad state of her life. Or who said "hurry up" and broke our stroke and ruined the session. Or even who just weren't that into it. Some guys can fuck a hole and cum. But this MUST not be the case for most guys, most of the time because the reports on action indicate otherwise. Guys here regularly make distinctions around this all the time. Clockwatcher, GFE, PSE, Rushed, Mechanical, etc. And Sugar threads have additional distinctions.

So while not disputed directly, pretending that all transaction-based sex is the same seems pointless.[/QUOTE]And counting dicks. Add an extra one in for you. Do you have Asperger syndrome or something?

Reading your whole thing, you seem to have a case of the ass about guys that are getting laid. Why are you fixated on how they do it or how much they pay?

As someone who has been able to put past addictions to alcohol and nicotine behind me over 20 yrs ago. I grew up in a very addictive atmosphere with my close family members addicted to cigs alcohol coke pills ect ect. Avoiding addiction is first, but understanding how addiction effects the brain is the most important part. I added a link for anyone who wishes to try and gain a greater understanding and maybe help them with their addiction. Give the addict the info and if the addict what's to help themselves they will read it. All the headings in the link are links to the highlighted subjects. [URL]https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/where-addiction-meets-your-brain

[QUOTE=Admin2;3361003]I think it varies from person to person. Probably the best I've ever heard it put came from a guy who recognized me as an addict long before anybody else did. He said that when the pain or cost of a behavior (doesn't matter the behavior) gets greater than the benefit or pleasure of a behavior than there is room for change. He didn't say people would, he said there was room for it.

Without getting to "preachy" I personally think that there is also an element of something that some people call grace. I struggle with that because then it means that not anybody can do it and I think that anybody can so I don't really know.

I do know that it there is a big element of "want" involved. People got to want it, they got to want it bad, they got to want it more than dope but I don't think that happens on the same level as choice. It's not something that one comes to through logic nor reason, it's a visceral thing. It's emotional, it's mental, it's "spiritual" you got to have a hunger for a different life. You got to be willing to sacrifice and suffer. You got to be willing to say (again it's not really conscience, it's deeper) "I'll do what it takes," not "I'll do what I can. ".[/QUOTE]I think we are definitely on the same page because anybody can do it but they have to, as you say, "Want" to do it. The recovering addicts that I know either hit "Rock Bottom" the loss of everything or the pain of their behavior of using became greater than the pleasure the behavior was giving them. Many of the addicts I know struggled with emotional / personal issues which caused them to mask the pain they could no longer bear to feel with the pleasure of the drug. Once the pain of using became greater than the pain they were hiding from, they "Wanted" to change. I call "wanting" change as the "Light bulb turning on" in your head. This is the realization that the continuation of a behavior that is detrimental to your existence makes you want to "Do what it takes" to change. It's the day you stop bull shitting everyone in your life including yourself and you finally act on changing your behavior. You call it "Want" and I call it wanting to make a "Choice" to change. I guess I simplified a deep visceral thing.

I personally had a behavior which was not the result of taking an external substance. My behavior gave me an endorphin high. I loved this High, but it wasn't until the "light bulb turned on" that I made the choice to "Do what it takes" to change my behavior. I didn't go through typical withdrawls like drug addicts but the loss of the endorphin high was just as difficult and caused severe mental withdrawls. I guess in your terms I "Wanted" to "do what it takes" however by my terminology, I made the choice to change my behavior because it was more painful than the pleasure of the endorphin high.

[QUOTE=FreckleFreak;3361578]I think we are definitely on the same page because anybody can do it but they have to, as you say, "Want" to do it. The recovering addicts that I know either hit "Rock Bottom" the loss of everything or the pain of their behavior of using became greater than the pleasure the behavior was giving them. Many of the addicts I know struggled with emotional / personal issues which caused them to mask the pain they could no longer bear to feel with the pleasure of the drug. Once the pain of using became greater than the pain they were hiding from, they "Wanted" to change. I call "wanting" change as the "Light bulb turning on" in your head. This is the realization that the continuation of a behavior that is detrimental to your existence makes you want to "Do what it takes" to change. It's the day you stop bull shitting everyone in your life including yourself and you finally act on changing your behavior. You call it "Want" and I call it wanting to make a "Choice" to change. I guess I simplified a deep visceral thing.

I personally had a behavior which was not the result of taking an external substance. My behavior gave me an endorphin high. I loved this High, but it wasn't until the "light bulb turned on" that I made the choice to "Do what it takes" to change my behavior. I didn't go through typical withdrawls like drug addicts but the loss of the endorphin high was just as difficult and caused severe mental withdrawls. I guess in your terms I "Wanted" to "do what it takes" however by my terminology, I made the choice to change my behavior because it was more painful than the pleasure of the endorphin high.[/QUOTE]A great post, FF. There is a saying common in Alcoholics Anonymous that is similar: Some people come to AA when they see the light. Most of us get here when we feel the heat.

Alaska Tom.

[QUOTE=FreckleFreak;3361578]This is the realization that the continuation of a behavior that is detrimental to your existence makes you want to "Do what it takes" to change. It's the day you stop bull shitting everyone in your life including yourself and you finally act on changing your behavior. You call it "Want" and I call it wanting to make a "Choice" to change. I guess I simplified a deep visceral thing.

I personally had a behavior which was not the result of taking an external substance. My behavior gave me an endorphin high. I loved this High, but it wasn't until the "light bulb turned on" that I made the choice to "Do what it takes" to change my behavior. I didn't go through typical withdrawls like drug addicts but the loss of the endorphin high was just as difficult and caused severe mental withdrawls. I guess in your terms I "Wanted" to "do what it takes" however by my terminology, I made the choice to change my behavior because it was more painful than the pleasure of the endorphin high.[/QUOTE]You are trying to map your experience to theirs and you are really making this more intellectual than I've ever seen it. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I'm saying in over three decades I've never seen this happen as a "realization that the continuation of a behavior" bubba that assumes way fucking more mental gymnastics that the average junkie in the throes of addiction is capable of. I know it sits better with you to keep re-framing this as a choice and for a couple it might be, I've just never met that couple of people.

Its really tough for non addicts to understand what addiction feels like. There might have been some stuff you did that you ended up not liking so much so you quit it. I personally get a kick out of people that say "I tried that and didn't like it so I didn't do it again. " As an addict I'm always thinking "what the fuck does like have to do with it?" I shot a whole lot of dope after I fucking hated doing it. I tell people who ask me that addiction is like this terrible itch inside your brain, that will only go away by doing something. When I was quitting smoking (1. 5 years now) I used to get sooooooooo fucking pissed off with the people who insisted that "most cravings go away in 5 minutes" I literally wanted to kick them in the balls. I don't get cravings, I get fucking obsessions that don't go away, they just get stronger the longer I don't do the thing my brain is screaming for.

A2.

[QUOTE=FreckleFreak;3360758]On your next visit when you think "It's Time To Eat" you might find yourself as an unwilling cuckhold. She loves dancing in the rain without a raincoat with special friends, especially right after her fix. Plus you never know when the BF last had her. I suggest you bring douche with your $.[/QUOTE]The handle "itstimetoeat" has nothing to do with eating pussy. It is a racing term.

To add to what others have said, the process of actual addiction involves true re-wiring of the brain. The current science shows it's due to a combination of biological vulnerability (some folks are simply more likely to get addicted to some substances than others) and the actual chemical- heroin is about 2. 5 times addictive as any other substance, although Fentanyl comes close. Some folks will try heroin and not become addicted, but overall the likelihood of addiction is higher.

When addiction does occur, its a lethal combination- the dopamine systems of the brain (the reward / pleasure / impulse centers) become hyperactive, while at the same time the frontal cortex, which controls judgement and planning, becomes inactive. So addicts are impulsive, only focus on immediate reward, and simply can't "see" long-term consequences. The truly sad part is that they never re-create the first "high" that started the process, but they feel horrible when they are not using. It's no longer seeking pleasure, just avoiding pain and misery. And the craving never stops- an addict can get clean, but they will always crave and be at risk for relapse (Some ex-smokers will tell you they haven't had a cig for 20 years, but still want them!)

I have already seen too many good SPs go down the tubes with this, and if I have a sense they are using I'm done. I don't want the fatal overdose on my dime.

Peace.

The good dr.

I quit drinking over 10 yrs ago. No Dui's or any alcohol related offenses.

Had a series of bad life events happening and alcohol was my way to cope, so I thought. It made me weak, unable to confront my problems head on.

I've never smoked or taken any kind of pain pill. Even when I broke my leg, I took over the counter pain relievers instead of the percs and / or vics that I was prescribed.

I did 'see the light' so to speak. It was real and profound. Being able to stop drinking was easy for me. I've never even thought about taking a drink in over 10 yrs.

[QUOTE=DrDave39;3361770]To add to what others have said, the process of actual addiction involves true re-wiring of the brain. The current science shows it's due to a combination of biological vulnerability (some folks are simply more likely to get addicted to some substances than others) and the actual chemical- heroin is about 2. 5 times addictive as any other substance, although Fentanyl comes close. Some folks will try heroin and not become addicted, but overall the likelihood of addiction is higher.

When addiction does occur, its a lethal combination- the dopamine systems of the brain (the reward / pleasure / impulse centers) become hyperactive, while at the same time the frontal cortex, which controls judgement and planning, becomes inactive. So addicts are impulsive, only focus on immediate reward, and simply can't "see" long-term consequences. The truly sad part is that they never re-create the first "high" that started the process, but they feel horrible when they are not using. It's no longer seeking pleasure, just avoiding pain and misery. And the craving never stops- an addict can get clean, but they will always crave and be at risk for relapse (Some ex-smokers will tell you they haven't had a cig for 20 years, but still want them!)

I have already seen too many good SPs go down the tubes with this, and if I have a sense they are using I'm done. I don't want the fatal overdose on my dime.

Peace.

The good dr.[/QUOTE]When I quit smoking it was ten years before I did not want a cigarette, not I can't stand to be around them.

[QUOTE=Scarab31;3361838]I quit drinking over 10 yrs ago. No Dui's or any alcohol related offenses.

Had a series of bad life events happening and alcohol was my way to cope, so I thought. It made me weak, unable to confront my problems head on.

I've never smoked or taken any kind of pain pill. Even when I broke my leg, I took over the counter pain relievers instead of the percs and / or vics that I was prescribed.

I did 'see the light' so to speak. It was real and profound. Being able to stop drinking was easy for me. I've never even thought about taking a drink in over 10 yrs.[/QUOTE]I'm approaching 15 years of not drinking. Prior to that I was a daily heavy drinker for about 20 years. A functioning alcoholic. I finally had to surrender to win.

Congratulations Scarab!

[QUOTE=KnottyWood;3361873]When I quit smoking it was ten years before I did not want a cigarette, not I can't stand to be around them.[/QUOTE]I saw a shrink who's practice is limited to smoking cessation. It was all B-Mod no "therapy. " She never asked me why I smoked she just said "If you want to quit do this. " One of the most important things she had me do was when I smoked I had to stop doing everything else. No phone, music, TV, conversation, walking in the street, nothing. I could smoke whenever I wanted to but when I smoked I couldn't do anything else.

After a week of that I honestly couldn't wait to stop smoking. We had a quit date that was a week in advance, I asked her if it was ok if I stopped a week early and she said no. I had to do that shit for one more week. I've been doing nicotine replacement but I've never wanted to smoke after doing that for two weeks. I literally couldn't wait to stop.

A2.

[QUOTE=Admin2;3362043]I saw a shrink who's practice is limited to smoking cessation. It was all B-Mod no "therapy. " She never asked me why I smoked she just said "If you want to quit do this. " One of the most important things she had me do was when I smoked I had to stop doing everything else. No phone, music, TV, conversation, walking in the street, nothing. I could smoke whenever I wanted to but when I smoked I couldn't do anything else.

After a week of that I honestly couldn't wait to stop smoking. We had a quit date that was a week in advance, I asked her if it was ok if I stopped a week early and she said no. I had to do that shit for one more week. I've been doing nicotine replacement but I've never wanted to smoke after doing that for two weeks. I literally couldn't wait to stop.

A2.[/QUOTE]I believe this strategy of doing nothing when smoking, do not work for all (if I understood you correctly). In my case when I was a regular smoker, I had to stop doing anything. I have to be absolutely doing nothing to enjoy my smoke. So it depends. I quit 9 years back. I am glad I did.

[QUOTE=ItsTimeToEat;3361743]The handle "itstimetoeat" has nothing to do with eating pussy. It is a racing term.[/QUOTE]Only a moron wouldn't understand the play on words in my post. Don't worry you aren't the first.